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Sounds of Fundamentalism: Atheism Takes Away Your Joy, Purpose, and Meaning, Says Evangelical Pastor Mark Clark

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pastor mark clark

The Sounds of Fundamentalism is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section.  Let’s have some fun!

Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of Evangelical pastor Mark Clark telling congregants the “truth” about atheism. Clark’s bio states:

Mark Clark is the founding pastor of Village Church, a multi-site church with locations in multiple cities across Canada and online around the world, that seeks to reach skeptics and challenge Christians.

That was in 2021. Evidently, Clark is no longer at Village Church. Based on this page, Clark is now a preacher for Bayside Church in Granite Bay, California.

This video is only three minutes long, so give it a listen. Clark lies about atheists/atheism from start to finish, thus damning himself to the eternal flames of the Lake of Fire. The Bible says that no liar shall inherit the kingdom of God. Clark repeatedly lies in this clip, so based on the authority of the Word of God, he’s going to burn forever. God said it, I didn’t. 🙂

Video Link

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Should We Respect the Religious Beliefs of Others?

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hitchens respecting religion

Generally, I respect other people. I don’t respect all people without exception. Some people deserve nothing but scorn and disgust. These people are sociopaths or psychopaths who only care about themselves; people who cause great heartache and harm. When I hear of their demise, I will say good riddance. These people aside, I try to respect religious and non-religious people alike. Our society works best when we have mutual respect for others as people. However, there is a big difference between respecting someone as a person and respecting their beliefs. I have devoutly religious family, friends, and neighbors. I respect their persons, but I do not respect their beliefs. How could I? I’ve spent the past fifteen years preaching up and promoting reason, science, skepticism, and common sense. How can I possibly respect beliefs that go against these things? Evangelicalism, in particular, is irrational and anti-science. Evangelicals believe and practice things that cause harm not only to people, but to our Country. Sometimes, their beliefs actually kill people.

I am faced with a conundrum, locally. Using a quirk in the law, Lifewise Academy — an Evangelical ministry — is now holding release-time Bible classes for public school students who attend nearby Central Local Schools. I am downright angry that this is going on; that neither local newspaper has looked into the people and religion behind this program; that everyone around me seems to think Lifewise Academy is wonderful. The program for Central Local’s first-to-fifth-grade students will be held at Sonrise Community Church — an Evangelical congregation less than two miles from my home. The first quarter will feature lessons such as:

  • What is the Bible?
  • God Created the World
  • God Created People
  • Sin Entered the World
  • Cain & Abel
  • Noah and the Ark
  • The Tower of Babel
  • God’s Covenant with Abraham
  • God Tested Abraham
  • God Blesses Jacob
  • Joseph Sent to Egypt to Save Lives
  • Moses Born and Called
  • The Plagues, Passover, and Red Sea Crossing

I know many of the people involved with Central Local’s program. Good people. Honest people. Hardworking people. People I’ve sat next to at football and basketball games. People whose children I photographed when I was shooting sporting events for Fairview High School. If I ran into one of them at the local grocery, we would likely chat for a few minutes, catching up on what’s new. I respect them as people. However, they have religious beliefs that are, to put it kindly, bat-shit crazy. Look at the list of lessons for the first quarter, starting August 29. These lessons are going to teach myths as facts, stories as history, and creationism as science. Worse, young, impressionable children will be lied to about the nature and history of the Bible. I can only imagine how fanciful the lessons will be once they get to Jesus and the New Testament.

As one of the few outspoken atheists, humanists, and secularists in this area, I cannot and will not be silent about this egregious injection of Fundamentalist Christianity into our public schools. Sure, what they are doing is “legal,” but it is being done on false pretenses. I have talked to the Freedom From Religion Foundation about this. Sadly, there is nothing that can be done outside of publicizing who is behind Lifewise Academy, what their agenda is, and what they are really teaching children. The challenge, of course, is separating the skunk from his smell, the sinner from his sin, and the believer from his beliefs. As soon as I make my objectives public — and I most certainly will do so — local Evangelicals will take my objections personally.

Evangelicals are a touchy lot. They live in a country where their beliefs have been given preferential treatment. Dare to object to their beliefs and they take your objection as a personal attack. Recently, someone posted on a local Facebook group information about Lifewise Academy’s program at Bryan City Schools. My objection brought the scathing wrath of “loving” Evangelicals. Several people suggested that I butt out and mind my own business. Sorry, but that’s not how that works. When you drag your beliefs into the public square, you should expect pushback from people who disagree. The goal, then, is to try to separate sincere Evangelicals from their beliefs; to make it clear that it is their beliefs I object to.

For those who insist and demand that I respect their beliefs? I can’t do that. You believe things that cause harm; that retard intellectual growth; that stunt academic progress; that substitute myths for facts. In what other setting would this be okay? Yet, because it has to do with religion — particularly Evangelical Christianity — non-Christians (or moderate/liberal Christians) are expected to shut their mouths and mind their own business. I have never been one to keep his mouth shut or mind his own business. I see and know the broader picture and agenda. Lifewise Academy is just the first step in taking public schools back for the Protestant Christian God. Next comes restoring teacher-led prayer, Bible reading, and forced recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, with its “in [the Christian] God we trust” pledge of fealty. And then Christian teachers will be free to talk about their faith and the Bible in their classrooms. Creationism will make a triumphant return to science classrooms and “Biblical” morality will be taught in health classes and written into school codes of conduct. The goal is to return the United States to the good old days of the 1950s. Underneath all of this is theocracy — God rule. And what do we know about theocracies? Freedoms are lost and people die. We must not let this happen.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

An Independent Baptist Woman Asks, How Do You “Minister” to Atheists?

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ifb

I found the following dated discussion on a public forum called the Online [Independent] Baptist Community. I have excerpted the relevant comments from the thread. Enjoy! 🙂

Madeline stopped commenting on this site twelve years ago. One can only hope that she found the light of reason, skepticism, and common sense.

Madeline asks:

How do you minister to atheist?

Most atheists I minister to don’t care what I have to say. The Gospel bounces off of them like bullets to Superman. If I tell them that God loves them and sent his only Son to die for them, they respond by saying, ‘I don’t care, I don’t believe that!’. Or if I were to ask them if they believe that they will go to heaven when they die, they respond by saying, ‘I don’t believe in God or Heaven’ What am I suppose to do? And I don’t want to go force the Gospel on them, they get upset sometimes and this scares me!!!

Anon:

Try asking an atheist why we have seven days in the week and why we have Saturday and Sunday off.

Samer:

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

And so it is that the Bible doesn’t need to prove God–it’s evident by nature–and it simply begins “In the beginning God…”!

We know that people who reject this are hardheaded and willfully ignorant (Psalm 14:1, 2 Peter 3:5). Thus, they usually aren’t responsive to logic.

Atheism, to say there is no God, is silly. To say there is no God is akin to saying there is no gold in China. Such a statement requires absolute knowledge of everything, which none of us has but God.

If I told you to look at any building, and asked you to prove to me that there is a builder, you would probably say “That’s easy! The building is proof that there was a builder.” You don’t just lay down cement and lights and bricks and glass, and turn around and after a million years, a building will be there. And so creation is proof of a Creator.

It’s the same with a painting, like the Mona Lisa. Prove to me a painting has a painter, and you will say the painting itself is proof. Nobody in their right mind would think the Mona Lisa (or something much more complex) appeared by chance, yet the earth and heavens are filled with beauty and art. Art implies an Artist.

….

Countless statistics can be used–the anthropic principle is amazing–but in the end, they’re just willingly ignorant, as Peter says.

….

And remember! God has given us ALL a conscience inside of us. Every time we sin, we do it with knowledge that it is against God’s law. Use this fact!!

Itl:

I’ve got some more suggestions as well.

1) The last thing to do is to get into an intellectual debate. Try not to quote from stuff (like from secular historians) outside the Bible to help your witnessing, and STAY AWAY from philosophical stuff. Many of them are well-skilled in philosophy and such stuff, they will defeat you easily if you do not rely on God’s Word alone.

2) 1 point you can tell them: Man, by nature, is a religious being. Even the most remotest tribe will at least worship something, or will be interested in spiritual fulfillment. If it is not religion (very true for the atheist) that they seek, they will seek other things, like philosophy, arts, history and so on. I have never, in my life, heard of a person who has absolutely no interest in any spiritual things. Does that not tell us Man retains in his heart, a knowledge (albeit corrupted) that there a God exists? Tell them then, this God is the Biblical God, the Lord God Almighty.

3) What about life after death? Many atheists will tell you after death, they just go out of existence. But I doubt any of them will feel comfortable about it. Aha! The conscience. The fear, that judgment shall come for them after death. Another evidence of God’s existence. Focus on this part, the conscience (as the other brethren here have mentioned). If God does not exist, then morality does not need to exist as well, because human beings will have no one to be responsible to, but themselves. This is why many unsaved people who go on to a life of decadence and evil first reject God.

5) Btw, I find it contradictive they can get upset after hearing the gospel of Christ preached. If they do not believe (and reject) in God or the gospel, they wouldn’t feel offended in the first place (because they think it’s nonsense). Perhaps it’s their conscience being pricked? Hmmm…

And, if they threaten to get violent or blackmail you, back away. [it’s good if you can find a fellow brethren to help you] You preached the gospel to them: it is now their responsibility to accept or reject it. But at least you have sown seeds of God’s Word in them, which, hopefully… will grow and bear fruit aplenty.

May God’s blessings and protection be with you, as you preach His news to the lost!

LettheRedeemedSaySo:

When ministering to an athiest I would address the issue of What is Truth?

Madeline:

I’m actually using some of the pointers here on this thread on an atheist forum and see if I can get some ministerial experience. Well at least they can’t chase me!

Psalm 18:28

Are you sure you want to witness an atheist forum? It is harsh and they will shred you into pieces. I know several people had a change of view of the bible after being on an atheist forum (they were a young Christian). One of them became a theist evolutionist. You have to have a thick skin, and full knowledge of the bible and bible history, and strong faith and love for Jesus that nothing can cause you to lose your faith. I survived from a atheist forum, and it left some doubts in me for awhile. What didn’t kill me made me stronger. Many people who thought they knew Jesus decided to reject him after being in a atheist forums

Madeline:

Yes yes! I want to minister on an atheist forum. Anyone who rejects Jesus after being influenced by atheists would have proven to be a false convert. Jesus said that none of his sheep can be removed from him. And I may be young, but am not a young christian. God made you stronger after debating with atheists, and I’m sure he will do the same for me. Yay!!!!

Madeline:

Uhhhhhhh! I don’t think the atheists on the forum are going to change their mind. 😥 I tried but nothing seems to convince them. It’s so sad, the devil has blinded their minds and my heart grieves for them.

Madeline:

What am I doing wrong? I tried to minister to the atheists on the forum and gave it my all, how come it has no effect? What am I doing wrong? Someone please help me!!!

Samer:

You presented the Word, but you can’t do anything more–the result are of God. If it were up to us to get people saved, nobody would ever be saved–it’s all God!

Regarding atheists, though…

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:(2 Peter 3:5)

They are willingly ignorant. They don’t want to believe. I know this, having two atheist/agnostic siblings…Just hardheaded, because if God exists, then they’re in big trouble because they love thier sin too much.

Madeline:

I posted almost 70 replies just today on the forum and nothings changed. Should I quit? and what should I say to them if I decide to quit ministering?

Madeline:

No, not really! They hurt me emotionally there and I could not take it so I left. They don’t want to learn. Some of their posts are filled with sexually explicit remarks and explitives which are too offensive to mention. But as you said, I will leave it up to God as of now since there has been no progress. Thank you!

Madeline:

It is easier said than done grace. I bombarded them with scriptures, they can’t stand it when I quote scriptures, it makes them angry. I have made almost 80 posts in less than 2 days and nothing has progressed. If you think you can give them a change of heart, be my guest.

Madeline:

One thing I have learned thus far from debating with the ‘hard core’ atheists on the forum is that they will never believe the bible unless you can bring scientific evidence of some sort to the table.

Kevin Miller:

There’s a lot of good material on Biblical science out there. Kent Hovind is one of them. It’s much easier to prove Biblical science than evolutionary. You should look into it, I’m sure you can find some good stuff on the web.

Psalm 18:28:

They will refute anything. They are blind. You have to let them know what sins is and why they need to a savior. give them the 10 commandments and ask them if they broke it. If they say no, they have not broken it, then tell them how they broke every commandments. Then tell them that it is because they are not God and need to understand that the HOLY, SINLESS God is the only who can save them. They can not enter heaven as a sinner. They have to trust Jesus to wash their sins away so they could enter heaven. I am not better at explaining but you probably could.

Itl:

Madeline, Psalms18_28 is correct – they’ll (the “hardcore” atheist) refute anything. To them, they would believe only in the things they call as “science” (which may not necessarily be genuine science, but science “falsely so called”). As I have said earlier, the last thing to do when witnessing to them is to “debate”. I would recommend you to save all these Biblical Science for the agnostics, whom I believe are more receptive to the gospel.

Psalm 18:28

you might can ask them “where did the big bang come from?” or where did everything began? Can’t be aliens (looking at some of their prospective, some believe in aliens), because even they have to come from somewhere.

It was all created from God, who has no beginning or ending. They may asked who made God, but we know that he always existed. His proof of his existence is that we are here, and that’s the reality.

They probably knew who you are by googling your screenname, especially when you link their website to us.

Twinkle:

here you are…Hi mad!

Whoa…neato! A website for baptists only! Maddy, I wouldn’t spend too much time with atheists, there are those who are lost and are willing to receive the Gospel. Do what you can and shake the dust off your feet. So what did you do today…?

See you at Bethel Sunday?

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical Stalker Daniel Kluver Thinks I’m a Christian and Have Returned to Preaching

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danny kluver

In May 2021, an Evangelical man named Daniel Kluver began stalking me on the Internet. I have asked him to stop emailing me or sending me messages on social media, yet he continues to do so. Some of Kluver’s past literary works say things such as this:

Evangelical Man Says I am Infested with Evil Spirits:

You are the one making an ass out of your self! If all you can talk is shit then go talk It to the devil. A devil did speak through in a lie yesterday. You claimed to have demonic power yesterday [evidently Kluver doesn’t understand sarcasm] but the fact is the devil in you was just boasting about himself! You have no power and your garbage that you dump into the world will soon be over according to your testimony about your health [ah yes, another passive-aggressive threat]. Sometimes when people are infested with evil spirits they don’t even know what is wrong with their selves. If that’s the case with you then you still have a chance for the evil spirits to be flushed out and then you won’t have to keep living like the guy in mark chapter five.[the demon-possessed maniac of Gadera] I have learned how to get demons to manifest in people like you and that is evident.

Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot:

Peter ruckman was disliked by many brainwashed preacher boys but he was my favorite teacher because he was a straight shooter! Just because the Bible says in the latter times some will depart from the faith giving heed to doctrines of demons like the nuns that won’t marry doesn’t mean you have to. You should watch demons and Christians by ruckman.

You speak like you were a brainwashed preacher boy and it makes me wonder if you are really saved.

I have prayed for god to soften your heart and cut you to the marrow if that’s what it takes.with stents and patches all over our bodies we are in the third quarter of life.

I would probably bet that your wife has been a first peter chapter three wife at times.

Gods message to you is don’t let your pride get in the way of eternity! The only way you could ever preach gods word and denounce him later is only by devils that you have let surround yourself. Devils perched on both shoulders whispering lies into your mind to block the Spirit of God all mighty!

there is a literal hell and I have found that out before I was saved. God used it as a tool to get my attention and it worked.

I am going to ask God to pull back his protective hand off of your life if that’s what it takes to get your attention. In case you haven’t realized it yet I asked God to use me and instead of street witnessing like I used to he is using technology. I have to stay prayed up to fight the devil everyday and you saw how he was working on me with the first message I sent you.

If I don’t see you in heaven then I will see you on judgment day! Take care and god bless!

Yet Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot:

You morphs are just confirmation of the times we are in.

You have shown that you don’t love or fear god and you are useless now!

Your opinions are slanderous and you have become just like satan whom you serve. A stumbling block to some. Just a bunch of hot air to others.

Rough times ahead just right around the corner for those who hate god.

You’re wrong about who dies when you said that we will both die. Believers never die!

I am amazed at your ignorance and you probably were thrown out of the congregation that you say you were pastoring. I doubt that much of what you said is true!

Why don’t you get a job?

Kluver even contacted my wife, Polly, on Facebook:

If we are truly born again we cannot quit the church because we are the church. You can walk away from the lord and be miserable if you are truly born again just as a non believer that thinks they are born again and can’t understand why they are miserable.

I have been where Bruce is or was and Hebrews twelve verses seven and on confirms the truth about someone.

God has answered every one of my prayers over the last twenty five years and you and your family have been my first and foremost prayers!

Praying for others is my spiritual gift and I wasn’t sure what it was until I asked God to confirm it. We all have these gifts if we are born again and I believe one of yours is your heart for children.

take care and god bless you and your family!

Kluver also sent me private messages on Facebook. Eventually, I was able to successfully block and ban him. Somehow, earlier this month, Kluver was able bypass being blocked and banned and contacted me on Facebook. Not remembering my previous interactions with him, when Kluver messages me about the weather and IFB evangelist Dennis Corle, I politely and happily answered him. After two or three messages, a light went off in my addled senior brain, reminding me who this man really is. I quickly banned and blocked him. Not one to take a hint from anyone but the Holy Spirit, Kluver came to this site and used the contact form to send me an email:

Hey Bruce I heard that you are preaching again. That’s awesome because you know what the baptist say: once saved always saved! If that’s true then you are stuck being a Christian. I will tell Dennis corle hello for you and tell me where you are preaching so I can stop by and say hello.

What the fuck, right? Kluver is a sociopath with advanced degrees in gas lighting and passive-aggressive behavior. Kluver has in the past threatened me, so I find him saying “so I can stop by and say hello” troubling. Fortunately, Kluver lives in California, so I am not too concerned that he will try to show up on my doorstep and say “hello.”

I am not sure what to make of his claim “Bruce I heard that you are preaching again.” I assume this is just Kluver making shit up. No one, anywhere, including yours truly, is saying that “Bruce Gerencser is preaching the Christian gospel again.” I remain an unrepentant atheist, an enemy of God and Christianity. Now, if an Evangelical church would like to have me come and preach, I am more than happy to do so. However, I suspect they might not like my sermon. 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Atheists Stupidly and Rabidly Hate God

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atheists are idiots

Those “freethinkers’ marching in lockstep, getting their “facts” from atheopath talking points clearinghouses, seem determined to argue with Christians and creationists about practically everything.

….

Many professing atheists seek their identities in denying the existence of God, which is galactically stupid even on the surface. Study on it a spell. How many a-Easter-Bunny-ists write and sell books, form groups, make videos, have people pay money to join their “reason circle” to combat the Easter Bunny, use anti-Bunny profile icons, and more? It’s because there is no Easter Bunny, but they know God exists and suppress the truth! For some inexplicable reason, ridicule is an acceptable substitute for rational discourse and proves them right. Contradiction and ridicule are not refutation. You savvy that, pilgrim?

It is amazing that so many of Satan’s handmaidens reflexively contradict us, thrusting their atheopathy into the bright spotlight. For example, informed creationists [oxymoron] often have to correct evolutionists and professing atheists on their own belief systems and scientific truth. Also, you would think that people who claim to believe in reason, science, and logic would have at least some skill in using those things. Instead, we are subjected to bullying and malarkey. Most are all hat, no cattle.

….

In their rabid hatred of God, Christians, and especially biblical creationists, bigots like this [and most atheists] are fond of perverting Scripture. It’s who they are and what they do, even when the truth applies to them — and they end up proving God right yet again.

— Cowboy Bob Sorensen, The Creation Cowboy, Internet Atheists Proving God is Right about them — Again, August 8, 2022

Sounds of Fundamentalism: Evangelical Calvinist Explains the Term “Christian Nationalist”

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christian nationalism

The Sounds of Fundamentalism is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section.  Let’s have some fun!

Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of an Evangelical Calvinist explaining the term “Christian Nationalist.” According to her, we are all under the authority of Christ whether we accept it or not. She explains atheist morality this way: “if stardust rapes stardust who cares?

Enjoy! 🙂

Video Link

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical Young Adult Pastor J.D. Rodgers Says Bruce Gerencser is Still a Christian!

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jd rogers

J.D. Rodgers is the young adult pastor (young adults associate director) at Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas. Recently, Rodgers delivered a sermon that categorically stated that once a person is saved (born from above) he can never, never lose his salvation. No matter what a person says, does, or believes, once he is married to Jesus, it’s forever.

Rodgers said:

If you can revoke your salvation, you are saying that the Holy Spirit can be unsealed, that the Holy Spirit won’t keep His promise to give you your inheritance. What is your inheritance? Glory. Eternal life. John 3:16 says that we will as Christians’ receive eternal life.’ If there’s something that you can do to take back the gift of eternal life, was it ever truly eternal?

He [ Jesus] lived on the earth 33 years. He then died a sinner’s death on a cross. He hung there. And on that cross, He took every sin that you committed against God that deserved death. He took it and He died in your place on the cross. And if you put your faith in that, what happens? You are justified. You are now a Christian because you’ve been justified by faith.

You were once opposed to God. Now, therefore, ‘because we have been justified by faith, we now have peace with God.’ Because of the death, burial and resurrection, Jesus went to the grave [for] three days. Three days later, He rose from the grave, conquering sin, conquering your shame, your guilt. So now, you don’t have to be afraid of death. You don’t have to be afraid of a penalty. You can stand free before God because of Jesus. You are justified.

Rodgers went on to say:

[Christians who say you] “can lose your salvation” [are saying they can] “change the definition of the gift of eternal life that you receive the moment you were saved. To say you can lose your salvation [is] to say that God is not trustworthy, that God will take back what He’s promised and God will take back the gift that He’s given to you. All three of those things are inconsistent with what the Bible says is the character of God. God is trustworthy. God has given the gift of His Son of eternal life freely. He’s not taking it back. No matter what you’ve done

So there ya have it, once saved, always saved. I was saved at the age of fifteen at Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio. Two weeks later, God called me to preach. Four years later I enrolled at Midwestern Baptist College to study for the ministry. I married a pastor’s daughter, and for twenty-five years I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. By all accounts, I was a devoted follower of Jesus. I loved the Lord, my God, with all my heart, soul, and might. Colleagues in the ministry and parishioners recognized that I was a man who loved Jesus; a man who devoted his life to preaching the gospel, winning souls, and ministering to the church. That’s the facts. Anyone who suggests otherwise has an agenda or wants to discredit me.

In November 2008, I walked out the doors of the Ney United Methodist Church for the last time. A few months later, I sent out a letter to family, friends, and former church members declaring that I was not a Christian. It was not long before I self-identified as an atheist.

According to Rodgers, I am still a Christian — a Christian atheist. 🙂

Recognizing that he has a theological conundrum on his hands, Rodgers, ends his sermon by completely contradicting what he said earlier. Realizing that there are people like me who “once proclaimed they were ‘in the faith’ left the faith to practice a different lifestyle or became an atheist,” Rodgers states:

“The problem with these two oppositions is they come with the assumption that these people were actually Christians to begin with.”

“1 John also actually says that, ‘if you walked with us, and you looked like us, and then you walked away, you were never one of us.’ 1 John 2:23-24, it says, ‘No one who denies the Son has the Father.’… So if there’s any point in your life where you say, ‘No, I don’t believe Jesus has done this for me,’ you do not have the Father. You never had the Father. That’s what the Bible would teach.”

So which is it? Am I still a Christian or was I never a Christian? Rodgers miserably fails to account for people like me. Either he must claim that I was never a Christian; that I was a false prophet; that I successfully deceived scores of Christians over the years, or I am still a bought-by-the-blood child of God.

Arminians, of course, will argue that I once was saved, and now I am lost; that I was a Christian who fell from grace. The problem with this position is all the Bible verses that suggest that once a person is saved, he can never lose his salvation. Who is right? Both appeal to the Bible to justify their positions. How can I possibly ever know whether I’m going to Heaven or Hell? 🙂 Not that I care. I’m an atheist. I will leave it to God’s chosen ones to debate and settle the eternal destiny of my non-existent soul. In the meantime, I’ll be cheering on the Reds and Bengals and having wild sex with my smoking hot heathen girlfriend. 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce Almighty, the One True God of This Blog, Edits Dr. David Tee’s Post

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David Tee, the man, the myth, the legend

Today, Fake Dr. David Tee, whose real name on court documents is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, wrote yet another post attacking me. I have learned that one of the first things Theissen does every day is to read this site and write a post besmirching my character, insulting me, lying about me, and attacking the upstanding readers of this blog, especially LGBTQ commenters.

What follows are two paragraphs from Thiessen’s latest screed, Christian Counselors — 2. I have edited it for readability and truthfulness. The emboldened sentence is in the original. Enjoy! 🙂

On another note, we [I] knew that certain people [Bruce Gerencser] would respond to our [my] post. They [He] did and their [his] content is as bad as it always has been. We [I] are [am] not going to respond to their[Gerencser’s] false charges and content [– for which I will provide no evidence — ] as it is of no value to do so.

What we [I] will say is that God [I, Derrick Henry Thiessen,] is [am] always right and the unbelieving world [Gerencser, Ben Berwick, and other atheists] is [are] always wrong. We [I] were [was] also going to take some more examples from that article [the one I refuse to link to directly or mention that Bruce Gerencser is the author] we [I] linked to in yesterday’s post but we [I] will bypass that as well [bawk! 🙂 ]

All we [I] will say is the end result is due to the fact that the author [Gerencser] listened to the unbelieving world [evidence, reason, and common sense] over God [a deity that does not exist].

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dr. David Tee’s Apologetic Method: Accuse, Attack, Discredit

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Fake Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, continues to write about me on his blog, even though he refuses to mention me by name. Today, Thiessen wrote a post titled Christian Counselors. He used my 2019 article titled Beware of Christian Counselors as the foundation for his post. Instead of mentioning me by name or properly linking to my article, he instead linked to a counseling site that I gave permission to republish my article.

As I read Thiessen’s latest screed, it dawned on me that the post provided a good example of his apologetic method. The subject doesn’t matter. Thiessen has used the same apologetic method in every post he’s written about me: accuse, attack, discredit.

What follows are quotes from his latest post:

Never feel bad about graduating from a Christian counseling program or even taking a few classes. The secular world never accepts anything that is remotely connected to Christianity, especially Evangelicalism.

….

How would pushing your faith and answers to the side help the persons needing counseling? It doesn’t. It is a technique used by unbelievers to hide from any truth and answers. They do not want God in the counseling room just like unbelieving scientists do not want God in the science lab.

….

This is the core of the problem. It is that little word ‘objectively’ that causes a lot of problems for Christian counselors. The author certainly does not know what the term actually means or how it is applied.

….

However, it must be noted that there is no such thing as true objectivity. Everyone is on a side. The unbeliever is on the side of evil and their perspectives are often skewed by their unbelief and the deception in their lives.

The Christian is on God’s side and often has the answers the people need. If the author wanted true objectivity, he would have to allow the fact that Christians have a perspective and that perspective is valid.

But he is not objective when it comes to Christian counselors. His bias against these people colors his perspective and leads him to trash people most of whom he will never meet or know. In his analysis and thesis of this topic, his bias is in plain sight.

….

He is not being objective nor is he being honest. He only takes his experience and paints with a very broad brush. There are many good Christian counselors who know how to use their faith correctly when counseling others. They do not follow the demands of the unbelieving world and provide actual help to the afflicted.

Just because he could not do it, doesn’t mean others cannot. Just because he had no answers, doesn’t mean others do not have the right answers. His attack on Christian counselors, in general, is wrong and misleading. It also hurts innocent people.

….

The Christian has the advantage as they know right from wrong and can effectively counsel the woman so that she sees that getting an abortion is not the right thing to do. The Christian, with God’s help, can easily counsel this woman and stop her from making a mistake.

The unbeliever can’t because they do not always accept the fact that the unborn child is truly human. They also do not accept what is truly right and truly wrong and replace God’s standards with their own. That is failing the client, not helping them. It is not great counseling either as it is done unobjectively.

….

There is nothing wrong with this as the unbelieving way is not the right way to do counseling. The Christian has knowledge that the unbeliever does not have and they should be allowed to be employed where they want.

Also, the Christian has compassion and caring that unbelievers do not have Barring the Christian counselor from any job is discrimination and illegal but that does not stop the author from recommending that action.

When it comes to counseling, the Christian has far more answers and insight than the unbeliever has and if the unbeliever wants to be truly objective, they have to let the Christian and their perspective practice their counseling training and knowledge.

The unbeliever does not have all or any answers for hurting people.

….

God knows the heart of men and women and who is better at arriving at an answer- the unbeliever who has their own personal preferences when it comes to counseling and doe snot know if the client is lying to them or not or where the truth lies? Or the Christian pastor who has God on his side showing him what is actually wrong with the person and providing the answer to the pastor?

….

It is not up to the unbeliever to determine who can or cannot counsel and in what way that they counsel. Pastors are to obey God, not unbelievers. Spiritual answers are better than the many non-answers that unbelieving counselors give.

Plus, counselors are to provide the truth, not some theory or some false answer that keeps them coming back to the counselor for years of therapy.

….

No, there are very few complex problems in this world. Most of them can be resolved if unbelievers accepted the fact that evil exists. But they don’t thus they are not good counselors, they are just people keeping others trapped in their problems.

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Pastors are not dangerous, it is the unbeliever that is dangerous as they try to hide the truth and the answers from people.

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This is not true and the bias of the author is clearly seen as he disqualifies people with the answers simply because they disagree with his religious viewpoint. He is not qualified to write this type of article because of his prejudice and bias against God, the Bible, and Christians.

There are a lot of personal statements made in that article that we will not deal with right now. Suffice it to say, that those topics came about for a specific reason or two. Maybe in the next parts, we will address those issues.

….

This is the problem with going to unbelieving counselors. Their bias against Jesus, Christianity and the church has them robbing people of their faith. They are unqualified to handle spiritual problems or those issues that require faith building.

Everything the author said against Christian counselors applies to unbelieving ones as well. They are not qualified to handle spiritual problems. The unbelieving counselors make God, Christianity, the Bible, and its content the problem when in reality it is evil creating the problem.

The unbeliever cannot help the believer because they do not share the same beliefs or perspectives. One comes from sin, while the other has been freed from sin. When you open yourself up to unbelieving ideology and teaching, then your believing side suffers and you are separated from God eventually.

What the author failed to do in this article was be honest. He knew what the Bible says and he ignored it in his attempts to bash professional people who do not believe as he does. To do counseling correctly, one needs wisdom.

Thiessen has a simplistic worldview: I am right and everyone else is wrong; Christianity is right, secularism is wrong; non-Christians, especially atheists, have nothing to offer the human race. Theissen has spent most of his life immersed in Fundamentalist thinking. As time goes on, Theissen becomes more certain that he is absolutely right. In his worldview, there is no place for nuance, shades of gray, doubt, or honest differences of opinion. In fact, in recent months, Theissen has intimated that he is just like Jesus, in thought and deed; that his words and God’s words are almost identical.

Thiessen will continue to write about me. He has a pathological need to do so. And as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, Thiessen will continue to accuse, attack, and discredit. He has been doing these for so long, that it’s just who he is.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.