Sometimes, I receive an email that defies an explanation. Today, I received the following email from someone in Nigeria:
Grace and peace to you in Jesus name. Our church mission is soul winning ‚”He that winneth souls is wise‚” ‚– If it were not for soul winners, the other four ministries (Eph. 4:11-16) couldn‚’t do their job. It takes a complete working of the body, controlled by the head, to bring sons to glory. One plows the ground, another plants the seed, another digs around it and water it, while yet another cuts the weeds down and digs out their roots ‚– but only God can do the increasing of it. I thank God for his beautiful plan of salvation.
We have ministered the gospel to Souls in the Villages, Schools, Hospitals and in different other places and I am so glad informing you that so many souls have been won and Souls who are worshipping Idols have surrendered their lives to Christ and together We can reach more Souls in villages here.
Please, We are in need of 23 Giant Print Bibles for old Men and Women. And Please help us with 2 Study Bibles as well. We are praying believing God that as you read you this Letter, you will help us purchase these Bibles and We will love the KJV Bibles. And Please pray for the Orphans in our Orphanage home. The safest means of sending bibles to us is via post office insured mail. Please help for this need and God will richly bless you.
I responded:
David,
You read my contact form, right? You know I’m an atheist, right? Why would I send you Bibles?
Bruce Gerencser
I received no response from Pastor David. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I responded to a comment from an Evangelical man named Donald. Based on the server logs, he read all of one Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) related post. You can read my response here.
Today, Donald sent me an email response to my post. Here’s what he had to say:
Thanks for the response. You are correct in that I do try to convince others to trust Christ. The reason being I believe it’s the way to heaven. What’s your reasoning for your hindering those who may otherwise trust Jesus. I have an agenda based on what I consider fact. If I’m wrong so what because according to you there is no hope. Why so critical of something that doesn’t exist? I have a reason, a belief in something that I believe will help them. There is absolutely your right to not believe. Why so sarcastic towards those that do? Why do those that follow you seem so eager to mock those that believe in something they don’t? I have no doubt that you know everything I could say in rebuttal to your claim God doesn’t exist. Let me tell you, I know what you would say to me as well. The difference is unlike some your responders I will not disparage what they believe in. I’m not angry, bitter, frustrated or aggravated in your or others silliness. I am sad.
To provide context for readers who may not have read Donald’s first comment and my response. here’s the text of his comment:
What caused you to be so bitter? I can somewhat understand your disdain for religion but why the effort to destroy something you don’t believe is real. Why fight so hard? Why not just let people believe as they will? I don’t spend anytime attempting to convince people that Bigfoot doesn’t exist, their belief is not a threat to me. Again ,why the effort to discredit?
As you can see, Donald’s opening salvo was to attack my character; that I am motivated by bitterness. He could have interacted with the post he commented on, Why Do People Attend Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Churches? Instead, he decided to go after me personally. Such ill behavior is not uncommon. Over the past fourteen years, I have received thousands of emails, social media messages, and blog comments from the Donalds of the world. While I wish Evangelicals would actually respond to what I write, I know many Christians find my story troubling or threatening, and their answer is to attack the messenger instead of responding to his message.
Donald is convinced that I am driven by “bitterness.” I responded:
What makes you think I am bitter? Because my beliefs are different from yours? Because I think your God is a fictional being? Because I think the Bible is an errant, fallible book littered with mistakes and contradictions? Because I think the universe is 14 billion years old, and God had nothing to do with its formation? Or is it because my moral and ethical beliefs upset you? Or maybe, you just don’t like sexy, hot men with white beards and bald heads? What is the real reason, Donald, you think I am bitter? Or is this just a word you use to disparage and dismiss anyone different from you?Would it matter to you if I told you that I don’t have a bitter bone in my body? Just ask my wife of 43 years, my six adult children, my editor, or my counselor. Bitterness is simply not part of my DNA. I am a pragmatic realist. I accept things as they are. I think you will search high and low and come away empty for one post that remotely suggests I am bitter about my past or present life. I await your apology, but I won’t hold my breath. Evangelical cars don’t have a reverse gear.
I made it very clear to Donald that his judgment was materially wrong. He should have apologized for his behavior, but if there’s one thing I know about Evangelicals, it is that they don’t do apologies. Doing so would require them to humbly admit that they were wrong.
Now let me respond to Donald’s latest comment.
Donald admits that he evangelizes other people. He admits that he publicly witnesses to unbelievers. Yet, he astoundingly thinks that atheists such as myself shouldn’t do the same; that we should keep our beliefs and stories to ourselves. Donald wants a world where the only message being heard in the public square is Evangelical Christianity.
Donald claims he has an agenda based on “facts.” I would be more than happy to talk to him about these “facts” of his. So if Donald wants to talk about the Bible, Evangelical theology, or church history, I’m game. If Donald has not done so, I encourage him to read one or more of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Biblical text. I will even provide Donald with one of Ehrman’s books free of charge.
I spent significant time in my first response to Donald explaining to him why I do what I do. It seems that Donald can’t or won’t understand why atheists might want to challenge Evangelical beliefs, especially since those beliefs directly affect and harm unbelievers. My God, we need only to look at the January 6 insurrection of the election of Donald Trump to see how Evangelicals harm others. Evangelicals are the primary force behind the culture war. These warriors for Jesus want to criminalize abortion, outlaw same-sex marriage, marginalize LGBTQ people, and establish a Christian theocracy where the Bible is the law of the land. These things materially cause harm, so it would be irresponsible for me not to speak out on these (and other) issues. I suspect Donald wants the freedom to do the same. Again, I ask why does Donald want privileges for Evangelicals that he is unwilling to grant to atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagans, and other unbelievers?
Donald said “I have no doubt that you know everything I could say in rebuttal to your claim God doesn’t exist.” This would be a safe assumption. I was in the Christian church for 50 years. I attended an Evangelical Bible college and pastored Evangelical churches (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, GARBC, Sovereign Grace, Christian Union, Southern Baptist, and non-denominational) in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. I preached over 4,000 sermons and spent thousands of thousands of hours reading the Bible, reading theological tomes, and studying for sermons. I wanted to be the best pastor possible, a man who loved God and practiced the teachings of the Bible. I am confident that I can handle myself in any discussion about the Bible and Evangelical theology/practice. Again, I am more than happy to engage Donald on these issues. The ball is in his court.
Donald doesn’t like how some commenters responded to his comment. Evidently, he wants the freedom to disparage me, but no one should be allowed to challenge his assertions. When people comment on a public blog, their words are their own. I don’t agree with every comment. I hope Donald understands that he bears the collective weight of all the Evangelical zealots who have come before him. Scores of Evangelicals have told me that I am bitter, angry, hate God, secretly want to commit sexual sin, or that I am a liar, a deceiver, a false prophet, or demon-possessed. Day after day, week after week, year after year (since 2007), Evangelicals have attacked my character or provided armchair physiological analysis. Long-time readers have watched these attacks unfold on this site. Should it be surprising that they are tired of the people I “affectionately” call Assholes for Jesus?
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received the following comment from an Evangelical man named Donald. Based on the server logs, he read all of one Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) related post. My response is indented and italicized.
What caused you to be so bitter?
What makes you think I am bitter? Because my beliefs are different from yours? Because I think your God is a fictional being? Because I think the Bible is an errant, fallible book littered with mistakes and contradictions? Because I think the universe is 14 billion years old, and God had nothing to do with its formation? Or is it because my moral and ethical beliefs upset you? Or maybe, you just don’t like sexy, hot men with white beards and bald heads? What is the real reason, Donald, you think I am bitter? Or is this just a word you use to disparage and dismiss anyone different from you?
Would it matter to you if I told you that I don’t have a bitter bone in my body? Just ask my wife of 43 years, my six adult children, my editor, or my counselor. Bitterness is simply not part of my DNA. I am a pragmatic realist. I accept things as they are. I think you will search high and low and come away empty for one post that remotely suggests I am bitter about my past or present life.
I await your apology, but I won’t hold my breath. Evangelical cars don’t have a reverse gear.
I can somewhat understand your disdain for religion but why the effort to destroy something you don’t believe is real.
Do you really think one little ‘ole atheist who looks like Santa named Bruce Gerencser can destroy Evangelical Christianity? My, oh my what powers I have. Maybe I am Santa. The nameof this blog is The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser: One Man’s Journey From Eternity to Here. As the title suggests, this blog focuses on my story, my experiences as a Christian for 50 years, and as an Evangelical pastor for 25 years. I use my story to help others, especially those who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who have left Christianity altogether. I don’t evangelize for atheism. I write, people read, and we discuss via emails, messages, and blog comments.
Evangelicalism is destroying itself. At best Evangelicals-turned-atheists such as myself are picking off strays, people who realize Evangelicalism is a house of cards built upon on a crumbling, rotting foundation. Unlike Evangelicals, I am content to help people where they are, no strings attached. That a number of people, including pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and professors have found my writing helpful in their deconversions is humbling and gratifying. However, I have never coerced anyone into becoming an unbeliever. I’m content to be a friendly, honest voice in a sea of belligerent religious extremism and harm.
Why fight so hard? Why not just let people believe as they will?
Do you fight hard for the “faith once delivered to the saints?” Do you share your faith with others? Are you content to let your family members, friends, and neighbors go to Hell? I suspect not. Why should it be any different for me and my fellow agnostics and atheists?
Surely you believe in the free marketplace of ideas; the public space where competing ideas and beliefs compete for followers? Or, are you one of these Christians who think that only Christianity should have a seat at the table?
I don’t spend anytime attempting to convince people that Bigfoot doesn’t exist, their belief is not a threat to me. Again, why the effort to discredit?
But I bet you spend time trying to convince people your God is real, that the Bible is true, and Satan walks to and fro on the face of the earth seeking whom he may devour. I don’t spend any time on Bigfoot either. Why? Because Bigfoot is a meaningless fairytale. Evangelicalism, however, causes psychological, and at times physical, harm to others. Evangelicals are the primary reason behind the 2016 election of Donald Trump. Who are the people behind the various conspiracy theories infecting our nation? What is the largest group of anti-maskers, unvaccinated people in America? Who is behind the current culture war? Who wants to criminalize abortion, make same-sex marriage illegal, and return the United States to the “good old days” of the 1950s? Who is behind the increasing hostility toward LGBTQ people, atheists, and Muslims, along with people of color? Evangelicals, that’s who. The people who sold their souls to the Devil for a bowl of pottage, people who traded faith and personal piety for raw, naked political power.
So I hope you will forgive me if I openly and forcefully push back on beliefs and ideas that, if left unchecked, will be lead to bloodshed, death, and the loss of our democracy. And If I have some time, maybe I will write about why I don’t think fairies, elves, and liberal Evangelicals are real.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, a Fundamentalist Christian man named Joe Boie sent me two identical messages after reading several posts about Midwestern Baptist College (the institution I attended in the 70s) and its founder Tom Malone. Boie also read the post Why I Hate Jesus. Afterward, he sent me the following message — twice. My response is indented and italicized.
Dear Bitter Bruce:
What makes you think I am bitter? Have you ever changed your mind? Do you believe the same things you believed years ago? All I have done is change my mind about God/Jesus/the Bible/Christianity. I am a person who values openness, integrity, and honesty. Would you rather I lie about my loss of faith? Maybe you think I should keep my atheism to myself. Do you share your faith with others? Do you try to persuade people of the truthfulness of your beliefs? Why should Evangelicals be able to share their stories, but not atheists?
I suspect the real issue for you is that my story troubles you; that you can’t wrap your mind around a long-time Evangelical pastor leaving Christianity and becoming an atheist; that you can’t square my story with your peculiar theological beliefs. So instead of wrestling with those things, you choose to attack the messenger.
You come off as a smug, arrogant asshole. Do you attend an IFB church? Some of the worst “Christians” I have ever met are IFB pastors, evangelists, and church members. What was your goal in emailing me? What did you really hope to accomplish?
Now that you are old and ailing and see in the news in front of our face the fall of America, do you think it faults the preachers?
I am not sure what my age or health has to do with anything. I suspect you are a right-wing Christian. Did you vote for Donald Trump? If so, I’m sure you think the United States is falling headlong into the proverbial abyss. However, I don’t see things that way. We live in a time of great transformation and change. As a liberal and socialist, I see Trumpism and most of the Republican Party as an existential threat to the future of our Republic. Does this mean America is falling? No. Changing? Yes. Falling? No.
Evangelical preachers are directly to blame for the rise of Trumpism, fascism, and Christian nationalism. Many of them have stopped preaching the gospel, trading faith for raw, naked political power.
Now all these prophetic signs, Mideast accords, a vaccine that resembles the mark? Is that just coincidence.
What prophetic signs? There are none. A vaccine that resembled the Mark of the Beast? Seriously? Have you not read what the Bible says about the “Mark?” I suspect you are a Bible literalist. If so, please show me one verse in the entire Bible that remotely mentions COIVD-19 and vaccinations. Of course, I already know that there are no verses that say such things. None. Nada. Zip.
You whine and pine about people, I agree ole bitter Bruce. People are horrible. In the car business , we lose hope in humanity.
All I do on this site is critique Evangelical Christianity and tell my story. How about you interact with what I have written instead of making false assertions about my character?
I agree: some people are “horrible.” Please look in the mirror.
By the way, I have bought four new automobiles from local Ford dealerships — Moats Ford and Jim Schmidt Ford. I have had great experiences with both.
There is no way for us to understand that Love of Christ to die for a sinner.
Sure there is: use your brain. Carefully examine the claims of the Bible. I came to the conclusion that the claims of the Bible didn’t make any sense. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) If you have not read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Bible, I highly recommend them. Ehrman is a renowned New Testament scholar at the University of North Carolina, the author of numerous books on the Bible.
Those at the foot of the cross were saying the same thing you have said.
Really? What evidence do you have for this claim? Where can I read what people said at the foot of Jesus’ cross? I looked at what the Bible says people said while Jesus was dying. I found no correlation between their words and what I write on this blog.
Ole Bitter and sick Bruce.
What an astute (look that word up in a dictionary, if you have one) statement, Joe. I’m sure you are proud of yourself. Too bad your words reflect nothing of the love and compassion of the Jesus you speak of. What in your emails would incline me to return to Jesus? Why would I want to be a part of Joe Boie’s religion, a man who shows me no respect? That’s why I think you are associated with the IFB church movement in some way. Such behavior is the norm, almost expected.
I do commend you for not explicitly threatening me with Hell, but I suspect your repeated mention of my poor health is a subtle “you will soon burn in the Lake of Fire, Bruce” threat. I bet you were even smiling when you wrote “ole bitter and sick Bruce,” picturing in your mind your version of God torturing me forever for what I wrote on this site.
May you find some sweetness this Christmas
I happen to love Christmas — far more than when I was an Evangelical pastor. Awesome time. Our fresh tree is already up and Christmas music wafts through the air. We are currently shopping for gifts for our thirteen grandchildren. In eighteen days we will gather with our family for food, fun, and fellowship — all without Jesus. Our time together will be sweet indeed.
and know that that same Jesus is coming again and if you are saved you are still saved.
I am confident that Jesus is not coming again. He’s dead. He’s been dead for almost 2,000 years. Much like my mother, father, biological father, and grandparents, Jesus is dead and he ain’t showing up for Christmas dinner — though all of them are certainly invited. (Well except my mom’s father and wife, John and Ann Tieken. Please see Dear Ann.)
Welp, I was “saved” for forty-five years. Or thirty-five years, depending on what salvation date is used. I was in the Christian church for fifty years, an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I was in every way a devoted follower of Jesus Christ. (Please see Why?) And now, since November 2008, I am not. I no longer believe the central claims of Christianity are true. I no longer believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. I am not, in any way, a Christian. I realize this poses a problem for you as a once-saved-always-saved Baptist. You find it impossible to square my story with your theology. So, I was either never saved (an absurdity) or I am still a Christian — albeit backslidden. I hope you realize how absurd it is to say that I am currently a born-again Christian. Your inability to line up my story with your theology is not my problem.
God help me because I could end up just like you.
I have lived a good life, Joe, including the decades I spent in the ministry. I could think of worse people to end up like. Have you met Joe Boie?
Merry Christmas
You don’t mean this. There’s nothing in your email that suggests you are wishing me well. You see me as an enemy, a false prophet, a follower of Satan. Your wish for me is judgment and Hell, or in your kinder moments, repentance and a groveling return to faith in Hay-zeus. I am content to wish you well, Joe. May the triune god of reason, skepticism, and humanism bring to your home joy, peace, and spiked egg nog.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I am certain you are far more intelligent a man than I am, so I do not wish to debate you.
Thank you for recognizing my intellectual greatness. 🙂 All kidding aside, I am just an everyday Joe, a man who tries to help those who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who have already left the faith.
I am not an evangelist for atheism. I have no interest in evangelizing Christians, hoping to convert them to the holy trinity of reason, skepticism, and humanism. I am just one man with a story to tell. Perhaps you should ponder why my story resonates with so many people?
My fifty years in the Christian church and twenty-five years in the ministry have given me deep insight into and understanding of Evangelical Christianity. I try to use what I know to help those who are trying to escape the hold Evangelicalism has on their lives.
I am grateful that many people have found my writing helpful. Some of the people I have helped deconverted and are now atheists or agnostics. Others moved on to kinder, gentler forms of Christianity or other religions altogether. At no time in the past fourteen years have I told some they had to become an atheist lest they face watching A Christmas Story on an endless loop for eternity — a true hell if there ever was one.
I was rejected by two independent fundamentalist Baptist congregations in two different states, but I stand in their defense.
Consider yourself lucky. The Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement is a cult. It will be a good day when the movement shrivels up and dies. In fact, I hope one of my thirteen grandchildren live long enough to hold a pillow over the face of IFB church movement as it lies on its death bed gasping for air. I hope my grandchild will say to them, “this is for Grandpa and Nana and countless other people you have misused, abused, and harmed.”
They are going out of their way to send a few to heaven, while you are going out of your way to send a few more to hell.
There is no Heaven or Hell. Do you have any evidence that proves otherwise? Outside of what unknown ancient authors wrote about a Heaven and Hell, we have no evidence for their existence. I reject the Bible out of hand. The only Hell I am trying to deliver people from is the very real and present hell caused by Fundamentalist religions.
I can’t for the life of me understand why, disgruntled as you are, you would go out of your way to take a personal hand in someone’s trip to eternal punishment.
I am not disgruntled. Bad word choice, Robert. I am quite happy in life — chronic pain and illness aside. I’m only disgruntled when the Bengals lose or the Reds trade away yet another player. The Bengals put a beatdown on the Steelers yesterday, so I am one happy fella.
I am an atheist, so I don’t believe in the existence of God, Satan, Heaven, Hell, or eternal punishment. Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The Bible is not inerrant or infallible. Written by men, it is filled with errors and contradictions. Why should any of us pay attention to anything the Bible says?
If you have not read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books, I encourage you to do so. Ehrman is a renowned New Testament scholar. I think you will find his books enlightening. Let me know what you think.
You ought to repent of this attitude and behavior while you are yet alive and repair your relationship with a God who undoubtedly still loves you, and stop taking an active hand in encouraging others to sin against a Holy God and ensuring their damnation.
No God. No sin. No Heaven. No Hell. No damnation. No relationship.
I am quite happy where I am, as I am. You have said nothing in your comments, Robert, that would remotely entice me to return to Christianity. Sorry, but thousands of people have come before you, slinging the same empty religious words, invectives, and judgments. You are going have to do better than this. Better yet, pray and ask God to reach down into my cold, hard, darkened heart and save me. Surely, God is able to do so, right? Why send middlemen? Jesus knows where I live. He even has my cellphone number and email address. Text me Hey-zeus and we will meet for lunch.
Shame on you, sir.
For what, telling my story or sharing my opinions about Evangelical Christianity? What is shameful about what I do? I keep my pants zipped, unlike the Evangelical preachers featured in the Black Collar Crime Series.
You have all the information you need to attack me for making this statement, but I assure you that there is very little left to attack. Good day, sir. And may you recognize your error while there is still time.
Do you feel persecuted, Robert? Really? Aren’t you the one who chose to comment on this site? I am the one who should feel “persecuted.” But, I don’t. Every Evangelical commenter gets one chance to share what the dead Jesus has laid upon their hearts. You have had yours. I hope you said everything God wanted you to say. (Please see Comment Policy.)
In your cynical statement about the seemingly unseen “book of rules,” you failed to mention that they ultimately came from a God who loves you, and has your best interest at heart.
All I did was share a list of the rules I heard preached in IFB churches over the course of fifty years. No cynicism, just facts. These rules were not uttered by Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. They came straight from the mouths of preachers — the only true gods of IFB churches.
Please look at the list and provide Bible prooftexts for each rule. Not inferences, interpretations, or opinions. What I want to see are the words straight from the mouth of God. Good luck, Robert.
My question is: Are you judging all IFB pastor’s and deacons by the standards you kept for yourself in the pulpit for forty-five years?
I am not judging anyone. All I am doing is telling my story, recounting past beliefs and experiences. If the shoe fits, wear it. No one is forced to read this blog. Whosever will let him read.
Or are you judging them by God’s word, which likely looks unfavorably on you? I may yet end up in Hell myself, but I won’t see you there, nor will you see me. We will be far too busy with other concerns of self to think about the presence of other’s we might by then hope would be there with us.
I have no worries about Hell or eternity. One life twill soon be past and then we are dead. End of story. I suspect I will be dead soon. I have come to terms with my mortality. I hope I live five or ten more years, but if I don’t I am confident that the only thing I will experience when I die is darkness and nothingness — much like when I came into the world.
What did you hope accomplish with your comments? Surely you know that nothing you can say will lead me back to Jesus. That ship has sailed.
Thank you for commenting.
A sinner saved by reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, I received the following email (sent twice) from an Evangelical man named Bill Clark. Clark is a Christian psychologist at Valleydale Christian Counseling in Birmingham, Alabama. (Clark is a recommended counselor on Focus on the Family’s website.) His business bio states:
Dr. Clark’s experience is unique in that he worked simultaneously in a community mental health center as the Clinical Director/Assistant Executive Director and in private practice as a professional Christian counselor since 1983. His knowledge of psychological and spiritual issues has allowed him to integrate both disciplines into a holistic approach that addresses the body, mind, and soul.
Dr. Clark has been a Licensed Professional Counselor in the State of Alabama since 1985. He specializes in a variety of problem areas: mood and anxiety disorders, marital and family conflict, anger management, domestic violence, and stress management. He is certified by the National Board of Certified Counselors. Dr. Clark is also a Counseling Supervisor in the State of Alabama. He provides supervision to those seeking licensureas professional counselors.
Dr. Clark has a Ph.D. in Psychology from North Central University, a Doctor of Ministry degree (D.Min.) in Christian counseling from Luther Rice Seminary, a Master’s degree in Christian counseling from Trinity International University, a Master’s degree in Psychology from Eastern Kentucky University, and a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from the University of North Alabama.
In March 2015, Dr. Clark retired from community mental health with over 32 years of service. In September of the same year, he relocated his private practice to Huntsville, Alabama and was there for 4 years. In September 2019, he retired again and moved to Birmingham to be closer to his children. In December 2020, he came out of retirement and opened Valleydale Christian Counseling.
Clark makes all sorts of claims, so I thought I would respond to him with a post. My response is indented and italicized.
I find it quite interesting that your 25 years of pastoring is strewn with multiple resignations and even one excommunication.
Pastors typically change churches every three or four years. The reasons for this are many, but there’s nothing nefarious about my ministerial record. I have openly admitted that I have wanderlust; that I bore easily. I make no apology for being who I am. Most people change jobs numerous times over their lifetime. Why should I be faulted for doing the same?
The first church I worked for was Montpelier Baptist Church in Montpelier, Ohio. I was the church’s assistant pastor — an unpaid position. After seven months, I resigned and we moved to Newark, Ohio.
The second church I worked for was Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio. This was a new Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church my father-in-law and I planted. I served as Dad’s assistant for two and half years, working primarily with the church’s youth. In June of 1983, I resigned from the church to go start a new church in Somerset, Ohio.
The third church I worked for was Somerset Baptist Church — a new church plant in Somerset, Ohio. I pastored Somerset Baptist for eleven years, resigning in 1994 to become the co-pastor of a Sovereign Grace Baptist church in Elmendorf, Texas.
The fourth church I worked for was Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas. I was the church’s co-pastor. After seven months of conflict between my fellow pastor, Pat Horner, and me, I resigned. Horner refused to accept my resignation, saying the church had to grant me permission to leave. Days later, we packed up our belongings and returned to Ohio. The day we were leaving, the church held a business meeting and excommunicated me. (Please see I Am a Publican and a Heathen — Part One.)
The fifth church I worked for was Olive Branch Christian Union Church in Fayette, Ohio. I resigned after seven months.
The sixth church I worked for was Grace Baptist Church, renamed Our Father’s House, in West Unity, Ohio. I pastored Our Father’s House for seven years. I resigned in 2002, and did not pastor again until 2004. We spent most of 2003 in Yuma, Arizona, hoping the weather would bring improvements to my health.
The seventh church I worked for was Victory Baptist Church in Clare, Michigan — a Southern Baptist congregation. This would be last church I pastored. I left Victory Baptist after seventh months. We moved to Newark, Ohio to live near Polly’s parents, and in 2005 we returned to northwest Ohio where we remain to this day.
Every church is a different chapter in my life. (Please see What Happened to the Churches I Pastored?) I had successes and failures at every church I pastored. All of them grew numerically, yet with four churches I had seven-month tenures. Why is that? I have often wondered about significance of seven months. Coincidence? I still haven’t come to a satisfactory answer.
In the case of Olive Branch, an old, old, old established denominational church (the only such church I pastored), I grossly underestimated how dysfunctional and entrenched the congregation was. I was not the man to lead them. All of the men who pastored the church after me were retired ministers, elderly men content to maintain the status quo. I was thirty-eight, a man with a church planting background; a man with an entrepreneurial spirit; a man who had grand plans for an old, inwardly grown church. The church and I were a bad fit.
I never should have pastored Victory Baptist Church. I had numerous opportunities to pastor, yet because Victory contacted me first, I felt obligated to become their pastor. (I have a hard time saying no.) The church was, by far, the most dysfunctional church I ever pastored. I thought, at the time, I can “fix” this church. I naively saw myself as a man who could ride in and rescue dying churches. I now know better. Dysfunctional churches know they need to change, but cannot or will not do what’s necessary to do so. Many of them should be left along the side of the road to die. Such churches go through pastors one after another, chewing them up and spitting them out (with the blame always being ascribed to the chewed up pastors).
Things came to a head at Victory over some toys that a church member (who wanted to be a preacher) put in the nursery. I asked her not to put the toys in the nursery. They were unsafe. She ignored my request, so I took the toys out of the nursery. This led to conflict. A church meeting was called to settle the conflict. The meeting quickly became heated. I had told the church before I became their pastor that I had no heart for conflict. I was flat worn out. Conflict came anyway, and at the conclusion of the meeting where it was decided the unsafe toys had to be returned to the nursery, I resigned. Two years later, the church closed, unable to find anyone to pastor them.
The circumstances surrounding my resignation (and excommunication) from Community Baptist Church are explained in the series I Am a Publican and a Heathen.
And finally, I left the first church I worked for, Montpelier Baptist Church, primarily for financial reasons. Unable to secure a good-paying job (the church refused to help us financially in any way), we decided to move to Newark, and live with Polly’s parents for a few months. I secured employment with Arthur Treacher’s as a general manager. Polly took a job at Licking County Christian Academy, teaching third grade. Leaving Montpelier Baptist was the best thing for me to do for my family. I make no apology for doing so.
I am now sixty-four years old, an atheist, and a humanist. I have had fourteen years to reflect on the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry. Counseling has helped me take inventory of my ministerial career, and life in general. I have made a lot of mistakes, but who hasn’t, right? I have tried to be open and honest about my past, owning my mistakes and poor decisions.
Your behavior was characterized by being blunt, abusive, arrogant, temperamental, and unteachable.
Characterized by whom? Temperamental and direct? Sure. But abusive, arrogant, and unteachable? Nope. Who is making these claims? If Clark is going to make provocative claims such as these, he needs to provide evidence for them. Not a disgruntled member here and there — every church has them. I know of no former church member who has said these things — and I have interacted in recent years with scores of people who once called me Preacher or Pastor.
I am certain that no evidence from Clark will be forthcoming.
Those watching on the sidelines correctly predicted that you would eventually spin out.
Who predicted I would “spin out” (whatever the hell that means)? If people predicted I would “spin out,” I would love to know who they are; people who at the moment believed I would one day lose my faith and become an atheist? Much like the people who claim I was never a Christian, there’s no evidence that I was anything but a devoted follower of Jesus; a man who loved the people he pastored and tried to minister to their needs.
As I stated above, I am certain that no evidence from Clark will be forthcoming.
Unfortunately, it did happen and you appear to have carried all of the psychological baggage with you.
The reasons for how I have lived my life are many. Live long enough and you will have baggage. My life is what it is. Would I do some things differently? Of course. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, right? Unfortunately, there are no do-overs in life. I own my life, as it is, hoping to do better every day.
You have just switched sides and maintained the same character defects.
At this point, I am ready to sigh. Clark only read a handful of posts on this site, so it’s evident that he hasn’t read most of my autobiographical writing. Would it have made a difference if he had? Probably not. Clark “knows” what he knows. He has weighed my life in the balance and found it wanting. That’s the price I pay for being transparent about my life.
Maybe it runs deep, Bruce and you ought to drill down on your family of origin issues.
What runs deep? Family of origin issues? What do I need to know about my family that I don’t already know? Again, I have been open and honest about my upbringing. What does Clark know that I don’t? Or is he just making shit up, hoping to cause me psychological harm?
Honestly, no one cares to read or listen to your rants anymore. You have become irrelevant.
Finally, we get to Clark’s motivation for writing what he did about me. He doesn’t like my writing. I suspect it angers and upsets him. And instead of asking himself why that is, Clark attacks the messenger — a classic Evangelical tactic.
Clark says that no one cares to read my writing anymore; that I have become irrelevant. This site’s traffic numbers suggest otherwise. Another classic Evangelical tactic: try to minimize my influence, suggesting that no one reads my blog, when, in fact, this site will serve up 750,000 page views this year. I have done more newspaper, podcast, and video interviews this past year than any other time. Evidently, I am not as irrelevant as Clark says I am.
Give it up.
Not a chance. As long as I am physically able to write, I will continue to do so.
Postscript
After sending this post off to Carolyn, my editor, to edit, I decided to see if I could find “Bill Clark” online — which took me all of ninety seconds. Clark used the email address associated with his business to email me, and since it was listed on his website, he was not hard to find.
I was surprised to learn that Clark is a licensed counselor with over thirty-five years of experience. I have been seeing a secular counselor for years. I can’t imagine my counselor ever writing an email such as the one Clark sent me. Not only is Clark’s email judgemental and ill-informed, it is also unprofessional. I can’t remember a time I have ever written a stranger such an email. Instead of attacking my character, perhaps Clark might want to look in a mirror. As a supposed follower of Jesus, he might want to ask himself if Jesus would have sent such an email. WWJD! Perhaps Clark would like me to list all the teachings and commands found in the Bible he broke with his email to me, you know the verses about how to treat your enemies, or the verses about lying and corrupt communication, or the verses about the fruit of the Spirit. Maybe, Clark was just pissed off over my writing and responded accordingly.
Long-time readers know about the dysfunctional home I grew up in. They know about my Mom’s mental health problems, drug addiction, multiple suicide attempts, and eventual successful suicide. They know that my dad was not my biological father (which I learned a year ago). They know I moved numerous times as a child, attending a new school every year or two. They know I grew up in poverty, experiencing things no child should ever have to experience. They know my life is messy and complex. Yet, they continue to read my writing. Some readers have been following me for fourteen years — Loki bless them. 🙂 Why do so many people read my writing? Why do scores of people email me each year asking for my help? I suspect people read my writing because it resonates with them. Why do so many people thank me for being a help to them? I suspect my story rings true to them; that my story gives authenticity to their own. They see a preacher who is willing to be honest about what really goes on in Evangelical churches, a pastor who dares to share club secrets. And that’s always been my goal: to help other people. I don’t care one wit about what the Bill Clarks of the world think about me. Such people are buzzing gnats around my head on a warm summer day. Annoying to be sure, but a quick swat puts an end to that. Consider yourself swatted, Dr. Clark.
Let me conclude by talking about the successes I have experienced in life: forty-three years of marriage to a beautiful, wonderful heathen; six grown children who are gainfully employed and think for themselves; thirteen wonderful grandchildren (all of whom live twenty minutes or less from our home). We own our own home and drive a 2020 Ford Edge. After retiring, I returned to a hobby from my youth: collecting O-gauge Lionel trains. I am a professional photographer. I look like Santa Claus (or an Amish man, Jewish Rabbi, or an Italian mobster, depending on the coat and fedora I’m wearing). Man, I am b-l-e-s-s-e-d. Ho! Ho! Ho! I am also proud of all this blog has become over the years. Millions and millions of pageviews, countless new acquaintances, and a bushel or so of people I consider friends. I am grateful that I have had such wonderful people come alongside me as I struggle with chronic pain and illness; people who love me as I am and respect the work I do.
And now, it’s time for me to tell Bill Clark to fuck off. 🙂
Thank You!
After this post went live, Clark took down his business website.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical man named Phillip recently sent me the following email:
You are very dishonest and deceptive in your attempts to defame Christianity because you hate God. You are an apostate: You once professed faith in Christ and now deny Him. That’s your business. God gave you that choice. But, at least be honest. Kenny Bishop is also an apostate, and God’s Word informs us that those who profess and later go back and denounce their supposed faith were never true believers. (“Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has born of God. By this it is EVIDENT who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God..,”) I John 3:8-10.
If you are going to be a critic of Christians and Christianity, at least have the integrity to be an honest one.
Phillip read all of one post on this site, Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor. This post about a popular Evangelical Southern Gospel singer turned married gay United Church of Christ pastor has attracted a lot of attention since 2019. One Jesus-loving homophobe after another has left a comment on this post, condemning Bishop (and me) to the eternal flames of Hell. Hey, I am heterosexual. What’s up with that? Oh, that atheist thing. I forgot . . . 🙂 You see, in the double insulated world of Evangelicalism, the only thing worse than being gay is being an atheist. Imagine the emails and comments I would get if I were a gay atheist or a transgender atheist. Why, the Phillips of the world would lose their collective shit!
After reading one post, Phillip, the all-knowing, all-seeing born-again Christian, concluded:
I am dishonest
I am deceptive
I defame Christianity
I hate God
I am an apostate
Philip goes on to say that I never was a True Christian®. Keep in mind, he read one post. Yet, from a post about Kenny Bishop — one of my all-time favorite Southern Gospel singers — he was able to “discern” all of these things about me. Much like other Evangelical zealots, Phillip believes he has some sort of supernatural gift that enables him to judge people without actually getting to know them. However, God says to Phillip in Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
And all the atheists said, AMEN!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Last week, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Lawrence Shinaberry:
Mr. Bruce or Ms. Carolyn, whoever reads this, I enjoyed reading this rules document you put forth. A few of them had me laughing out loud while others had me shaking my head in astonishment. I took your decree though with the same reverence that I take a post from the Babylon Bee. Read your background and I won’t, as you acknowledge, evangelize. No use in doing so since you so blatantly put in print your view(s). I’m sitting here laughing cause, to put it plain and simply, you’re toast. I love it and yes I’m a Christian. I have my own demons to battle but you transgressed the one unpardonable sin. (Matt12:32) Oops, so much like the rich man gazing up at Lazarus I do hope you enjoy “wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Sorry that comes close to evangelizing. My hats off to you Sir for living and breathing Matthew7:15.
I replied:
Lawrence,
There is no God, so I am not worried about being “toast.” Neither am I worried about committing the “unpardonable sin.” There is no such thing. In fact, I reject the concept of sin altogether.
You are just another asshole for Jesus who sends strangers threats of eternal judgment and Hell. I hope you are proud of yourself.
Have a wonderful day.
Bruce Gerencser
Today, I received a response from Shinaberry:
Strike a cord did I Mr. Bruce that you have to resort to pubescent character attacks. That is fine as is your rejection of sin. What I wonder though is your level of intelligence, or may I correct myself, your ability to discern ie “sends stranger threats…” I reread my initial correspondence and I cannot locate any threat made. I do infer that your stance and/or beliefs, especially from where your biography indicates your background originates, will result in a lake of fire eternal setting. Sorry I did not know you were so touchy or to use today’s terminology – “snowflake.” I guess the truth hurts but scripture also makes that claim. I want to thank you for complimenting me by referring to my character as being one that is so aromatic. In reply to your question- yes Sir I am proud of myself and I do ask God for forgiveness for being prideful. Mr. Gerencser I hope you have a wonderful day. God bless and keep you.
Poor Lawrence, butthurt that I didn’t let his email go unchallenged. I can spot passive-aggressive behavior from a mile away. Shinaberry adds a bit of cuteness and feigned politeness to his emails, but make no mistake about it, he thinks I am a false prophet who has committed the unpardonable sin, a man deserving of eternal torture in the Lake of Fire.
Memo to Lawrence: don’t want to be called an asshole? Don’t act like one.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
(Message I Received From an Evangelical Christian. He misquoted Acts 16:31, leaving out “and thy house” at the end. I wonder why? How dare he corrupt the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God.) 🙂
This was “Attack Bruce” day. I received two separate messages on Facebook today threatening me with Hell. In addition, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist man named Victor Justice — who likely used a fake name and email address — left the following comment on my recent repost titled Domestic Violence in the IFB Church Movement. My response is indented and italicized.
That’s sad. If Steve was a good friend of yours, unfortunately he’s very likely in the literal Fires of Hell now, and for all eternity, little Bruce.
Victor Justice (VJ) is referring to a comment I left about my good friend Steve Gupton on the domestic violence post. Steve had left a comment on the post in 2015. As is common with reposts, someone responded to him after I reposted the article. I let them know that Steve couldn’t respond because he was dead. (Please see The Suddenness of Death.)
If Hell is my eternal destiny, I can’t of better company than Steve Gupton. Who would I rather enjoy eternal torture and torment with? Steve? Or a nasty, vile son of a bitch like VJ? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.
With your health problems, you’ll soon be joining him.
VJ goes straight for the jugular — classic IFB behavior. Yes, I have health problems. Yes, it is not likely that I will make it to age seventy. Every day is a struggle for me. I want to live as long as I possibly can, but I know that I am on the short side of life. VJ knows this and attempts to use it as a bludgeon to cause psychological harm. Again, typical IFB behavior.
You see, Almighty GOD is never mocked, never. Just because you decided to stop pretending to be a Bible believing, pastor, and play a victim instead, the fact remains that you will have to make full payment for your filthy sins.
First, there is no God, so there is no “God” to mock. Fundamentalist religion is my target, not a mythical deity.
Second, I was a sincere follower of Jesus.
Third, I AM a victim — of psychological harm caused by a lifetime of involvement with the IFB church movement.
Fourth, I am sixty-four years old. Not once in my life have I ever written a email/comment such as the one I received from VJ. His comment violated numerous Biblical teachings and commands. If anyone is a filthy sinner, it is VJ.
I believe that your suffering will be something utterly beyond human comprehension. I know of no other human being, past or present, that will face what you will…at The Judgment!
With all the monumental evil you’ve perpetrated on the LORD Jesus Christ and His Church. He would still be willing to forgive you! What an amazingly Good and Gracious Savior He is!
I am one man with a story to tell; one man with a blog; one man whose writing will never be read by 99.99% of the human race. Yet, I am evil personified, worse than Hitler. I have “perpetuated monumental evil” against the dead LORD Jesus Christ and the IFB church movement. Really? I mean, really? Sure, I am well known in some corners of the IFB world. Fourteen years and millions of page views will do that for you. I suppose I am even well known in some corners of the Evangelical world. That said, I don’t have a Wikipedia page, have never been on Atheist Experience, or written a book. I am not a famous (or infamous) person. I do, however, live in the heads of many IFB preachers.
In VJ’s addled brain, I am a tool of Satan, one who has led countless people astray; someone who is causing harm to IFB churches, pastors, and colleges. Pffft. I don’t lead anyone anywhere. I write, people read, and decide accordingly. Has my writing played a part in people leaving Christianity? Sure. But, no one left kicking and screaming with me pulling them into the flames of a mythical Hell. Am I an enemy of the IFB church movement? Absolutely. Proudly so. It will be a good day when the movement dies. So much harm is caused by IFB churches and pastors. So much pain and trauma. I make no apology for trying to smother the life out of what is arguably one of the most harmful sects in America. One need only read VJ’s comment to see how much harm the IFB church movement causes. Look at what kind of man it has turned VJ into. I genuinely feel sorry for him.
Steve’s time has run out. Your time is ticking away. Put away your filthy pride, get down on your face and beg Jesus Christ Almighty for forgiveness!
Most sincerely,
Victor Justice
Shit, get down on my face? I can’t even get on my knees. 🙂 I plan on dying with the courage of my convictions. I see no evidence for the existence of the God of the Bible. I no longer believe the central claims of Christianity are true. I am convinced that what awaits me after death is the flames of a crematory and a brief baptism in the waters of Lake Michigan before sinking to the bottom of the lake. What will live on is my good works and the memories others have of, I hope, of a life well-lived.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the years, I have responded to thousands of emails and comments from Evangelical Christians, including those who are part of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. After thirteen years of swimming in the Evangelical swamp, I have learned a few things:
No matter what I write, Evangelical zealots are going to reject what I say
No matter what I say, Evangelical zealots are going to dismiss my story out of hand
No matter how I treat Evangelical zealots, they will continue to smear my name, attack my character, and shit on my doorstep
I have also learned that Evangelical zealots have little regard or respect for me as a person. I ask commenters to follow the comment guidelines, and many people do. However, Evangelical zealots seem to think that the rules don’t apply to them; that they have a right to say whatever they want; that they have a message to deliver to me straight from the mouth of God. Thus, zealots believe they can verbally assault me and those I love, and I should just roll over and be nice to them. And if I don’t, I am accused of being just like the IFB preachers I oppose.
Here’s what I know: I respond directly and honestly with commenters on this blog, people who send me emails, or message me on social media. Don’t believe me? Ask Carolyn, my editor. She reads my email responses and comments. She will tell you I am kind and thoughful in my responses as long as people treat me in kind. However, if someone starts with condemning me to Hell, attacking my character, or verbally assaulting me, I am likely to give them what regular readers call the “Bruce Gerencser Treatment.” Ask honest questions or make comments worthy of a response, and I will do my best to patiently and kindly respond to you.
The sad truth is this: many Evangelicals cannot (or refuse to) play well with others — especially people associated with the IFB church movement. I am at a place in life where I am no longer willing to invest any emotional capital in trying to “reach” them. My goal has always been to help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who are no longer believers. While my writing has been instrumental in more than a few Evangelicals leaving the faith, that’s never been my objective.
I will continue to help people in any way I can. Piss in my corn flakes? You reap what you sow.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
