I wonder if the reason Bruce turned atheist is because he turned queer?
Sadly most people caught in the devil’s snare support the demonic atrocities of baby murder and sodomy.
Ballister is not the first Evangelical Christian to suggest that I became an atheist for perverse (in their minds) sexual reasons; that I am hiding a deep, dark secret about my sexuality. Refusing to accept my story at face value, Ballister and others like him concoct reasons in their demented minds why I “really” left Christianity. No matter what I tell them, they are certain that there is some other reason for my loss of faith, whether anger, hatred, disappointment, health problems, poverty, or a secret desire for cock.
Why do the JM Ballisters of the world always think there’s a sexual reason behind my deconversion? These are the same people who endlessly wage war against those who dare to fuck whomever, wherever, however, and whenever. Granted, Romans 1 does give them justification for their obsession with fucking. The Apostle Paul says that those given over to a reprobate mind (Bruce Gerencser) have illicit sexual desires and crave same-sex intercourse. (Is a blow job or a hand job intercourse? Inquiring minds want to know.) 🙂
Paul writes:
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. . . Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:26-28, 32)
The Message puts it this way:
Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches. Since they didn’t bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil . . . They know perfectly well they’re spitting in God’s face. And they don’t care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best! (Romans 1:26-28, 32)
These verses aptly portray how many Evangelicals view atheists. We are vile, evil people who spend our days molesting children, eating fetuses for dinner, and wantonly fucking our brains out at night. Never mind the fact that most atheists are every bit as moral and ethical as Evangelicals. Never mind the fact that many Evangelicals–turned-atheists are not much different from how they were in their Christian days (generally speaking). Sure, our morals and ethics have changed and evolved, but we are still kind, thoughtful, decent people. Sure, for most atheists, their politics have moved leftward, though it would be a huge mistake to assume that all atheists are Democrats, liberals, or pro-choice. I have several atheist friends who are Republicans, who voted for Trump. They love my atheism but hate my politics. Some atheists are even anti-abortion or believe in all sorts of woo. Atheism does not automatically convey to people sound reasoning skills.
For me personally, I am as liberal as they come. I am a democratic socialist, a pacifist, pro-choice, and a rainbow flag waving supporter of LGBTQ rights. I am so far to the left that I fell off the far edge of the flat earth. 🙂 Most local Democrats consider me way too leftist. While I do website work for the local Democratic party, party leaders, in general, are hesitant to embrace me. I’m in the family, but I’m the uncle everyone steers clear of. I will admit that I am somewhat standoffish towards local party officials. My viewpoints are so different from theirs that it is often hard to find common ground. The party is controlled by people my age and older. For a variety of reasons, they have been unable to attract younger adults such as my children. I have some suggestions if anyone wants to hear them. 🙂
Now to my sexuality. No, I am not queer, and neither am I bisexual. I am as heterosexual as they come, as is my wife. Outside of a same-sex moment with Billy K — he kissed me — at age fourteen, I’ve never had a sexual experience with a man. Sorry, there are no queers in my closet. I know, so disappointing. Lots of other stuff in my closet, so keep digging Evangelicals. You might even find my Great Preachers of the IFB porn stash — so-called men of God baring all for Jesus. 🙂
I suspect that if we look in the closets of Evangelicals such as Ballister, we will find all sorts of sexual secrets. My God, we might even find out that they do it cowgirl or doggie style. Such perversion will lead them straight to Hell. Only the missionary position for Evangelicals — straight, monogamous, boring heterosexual sex. Thus saith the Lord! Or James Dobson.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
JM Ballister, an Evangelical Christian who either deleted his email account or blocked me (coward), sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized.
Judas betrayed Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of silver.
Ballister begins his missive by telling me that Judas, a disciple of Christ, betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.
Judas is the betrayer of Jesus — worse than Hitler, in the minds of Evangelicals. I wonder if Ballister and his fellow Christians have bothered to look at the contradictions in the Biblical text on how/where Judas killed himself and what, exactly, the thirty pieces of silver were used for? Contradictions abound. So why should we trust anything the Bible says about Judas — or anything else, for that matter? If an inerrant book has one error, it is no longer inerrant.
The Bible calls Judas the “son of perdition.” Judas didn’t “choose” to betray Jesus. God chose him from before the foundation of the world to be the man who would betray the Son of God. Judas never had a chance to be saved. In fact, he couldn’t be saved. It would have been better if he had never been born. You see, Ballister forgets that I have actually read the Bible numerous times; that I spent thousands and thousands of hours studying the Word of God. I KNOW the story of Judas.
What did you and every other “former Christian” betray him for?
I can’t speak for other atheists, but I know exactly what I “betrayed” Jesus for: reason, skepticism, rationalism, science, freedom, and sleeping in on Sundays.
There is no such thing as a Christian “turned atheist”.
Memo to Evangelicals: just because you say something doesn’t make it so. Ballister denies what is right in front of him: an increasing number of devout Evangelical Christians are leaving the church and embracing atheism, agnosticism, Christian liberalism, or numbering themselves with those who are indifferent towards organized religion. We exist, and no amount of posturing and denial will change this fact.
Sadly they were never born again spiritually.
Ballister has a theological dilemma on his hands. He sees droves of committed followers of Jesus Christ exiting the church stage left — Christ-loving, sanctified, Holy Spirit-filled people — and he is befuddled by their departures. How can these things be? True Christian® Ballister says to himself. Unable to fit these people into his once-saved-always-saved theological box, Ballister concludes these Judases must never have been saved. Using the No True Scotsman Fallacy, Ballister dismisses out of hand millions of former Christians, labeling them liars and deceivers.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. Think, for a moment, about how many Christians I came in contact with. Thousands, including Evangelicals pastors, professors, evangelists, and missionaries. Some of these clerics were personal friends. Yet, not one of them EVER said that they thought I was unsaved. Not one. Either I was a master deceiver, tricking thousands of people into believing I was a God-called, born-again preacher of the gospel, or Ballister is full of shit. My money is on the latter.
Just like Judas.
Here’s the problem with Ballister’s Judas illustration: Judas was pre-ordained by God to betray Jesus. Therefore, Judas could not be saved. He was a reprobate from the beginning. Thus, if Evangelicals-turned-atheists are Judases, it is impossible for us to be saved. Thus, the blame for our unbelief rests on God — he made us this way. God chose to withhold his grace from us. Why? Who knows, but Ballister is blaming the wrong people. Evangelicals-turned-atheists are heathens today because, from before the foundation of the world, God determined they would be atheists. Perhaps Ballister should be emailing Jesus, and not me. Oh wait, Jesus is dead or has a Juno account.
Jesus loves you he never stopped and is waiting for you and many others here to come to him in true salvation
What a pathetic God Ballister serves. Jesus lurks in the shadows, helpless to save atheists and agnostics unless we come running to him. He could call out to us, but he says nothing. He could come running to us and miraculously save us from the wrath to come, but he has no legs. Everything an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God should be able to do, Jesus is helpless to do. How can it be said that Jesus loves us and has a wonderful plan for our lives, yet he either cannot or refuses to use his magical powers to bring us to saving faith? Instead, Jesus sends Christian Assholes like JM Ballister. Do better, Jesus, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The post VanZee references here is the most widely read and commented post on this site, Why I Hate Jesus. It is also the most misunderstood article on this site.
I am just going to say it plain, this post is full of logical fallacies. Look into Introductory and Intermediate logic by Bill Nance. It will help you sort your thoughts out. If you go through the book I can help you translate what you said into its propositions and show you were the fallacy lies.
VanZee thinks I am illogical; that if I read several books on logic (which I have) that I will then think correctly. And then what? Coming running back to Jesus and Christianity? VanZee must have missed that I grew up in the Christian church (50 years, longer than she has been alive), attended an Evangelical college, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. She must have missed where I talked about my voracious reading habit as a pastor. Of course she did. VanZee read all of two posts before rendering judgment.
Let me quote the Bible. Let it speak plainly to VanZee: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
I have a rudimentary understanding of logic and philosophy. That said, I don’t engage in arguments or debates on these subjects. Doing so is a colossal waste of time — for me, anyway. I choose, instead, to tell my story and provide critiques of Evangelicalism and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement.
The aforementioned post is not a treatise on logic or philosophy. It is, in fact, a political and polemical piece. How could VanZee (and countless other Evangelicals who have objected to the article) not understand this? The graphic of the AMERICAN JESUS at the top of the page is a dead giveaway. Try harder, Evangelicals, try harder.
If VanZee would like to discuss the nature and history of the Bible or Christian theology, I would be glad to do so. Then we can see who is “illogical.” Let’s have a cage match between the Evangelical-turned-atheist and the Holy Spirit-filled Evangelical.
I’m sorry for whatever happened to you. I don’t have time to read your story now, but I can see you were hurt and you are angry… yet you seem to be longing for God and want to get saved.
VanZee couldn’t be bothered to read my story, yet she feels she knows enough to make sweeping, ignorant, false judgments about my life. See Proverbs 18:13 above.
VanZee says she can “see” that I was hurt and that I am angry, and most astoundingly, that I am longing for God and want to get saved — none of which is true. But, VanZee knows better. Evangelicals think they have God-given magical senses by which they can see inside of people and discern what it is they really believe and feel. I have no answer for such nonsense. None. All I can say to VanZee is this: read my damn story and then we will talk. Read the ABOUT page. Read the posts on the WHY? page. Read my autobiographical work. Then, and only then, are you in a position to intelligently talk with me about why I left Christianity and became an atheist. Until then, you are ignorant and uninformed.
I will pray for you. I hope to hear from you again.
Ah yes, the obligatory “I will pray for you.” Thousands of Evangelicals over the years have told me that they are praying for me. Yet, I remain an unrepentant apostate. Why, one could almost conclude that “nothing fails like prayer” or, perhaps, the only “God” Evangelicals are praying to is the ceiling.
I long ago concluded that Evangelicals say “I’m praying for you” because it is, literally, the least they can do. Such statements are little more than a fart in a hurricane. Think of all the things Evangelicals could do for me that would make a difference or make me think that I am anything more to them than another notch on their gospel gun. Years ago, an IFB evangelist sent me $100. Color me impressed. I appreciated his gift. We struck up a friendship. Maybe he hoped his act of kindness would draw me back to Jesus. Regardless, I found him to be a generous and kind person. He even sent me a fancy tie that I wear to this day. Of course, I didn’t return to Jesus. Instead, he is now an unbeliever — and we are still friends. Be careful sending me money. I might use my magical atheist powers to suck the Holy Ghost out of your heart. 🙂 All kidding aside, Evangelicals. Want to make a favorable impression on me? Send me money. Praying may make you feel good, but it’s a masturbatory act — all about you.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, I received two identical emails from an Evangelical man named Tom Barker. Evidently, his “message” from Jesus is so important that I need to read it twice. My response is indented and italicized. (All grammar and spelling in the original.)
There is a major TRUTH that needs to be addressed here. People like Bruce Gerencser and others who call themselves “atheists” are really either Anti-theists and/or Anti-Christians.
Would it matter if I said that I am not an anti-theist or anti-Christian? Would it matter that scores of Christians read my writing? Of course not. Barker has determined, without evidence, that I hate Christians. Evidently, any critique of Christianity is considered hate.
Yes a combination of Satan the world and yourself and possibly another misguided human source has convinced you that “There is no God”. “No God or gods of any kind”.
Barker seems unable to understand the difference between “there is no God (s)” and “there is no evidence for the existence of God.” I am an agnostic atheist. I have concluded, based on the evidence at hand, that the Christian deity is a work of fiction. The same goes for the God of Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. That said, If Barker has compelling new evidence for his peculiar God’s existence, I am willing to listen. Further, since I don’t know everything, it is within the realm of possibility for me, that a god currently unknown to us might one day make itself known. Thus, I am agnostic on the God question.
I call myself an atheist because I live my life as if there is no God (not in denial, but because I see no evidence of a deity’s existence). The only time I think about God is when I write for this blog. It’s really that simple.
If Barker wants me to think differently, I suggest he convince me with good evidence that his God exists. Of course, Barker can’t do that, as this email clearly shows.
But there is a difference between “atheism and Anti-Christianity
Yes, there is. Have I ever said otherwise? As readers shall see in a moment, Barker’s g-string is tightly wedge in his ass over a meme I posted on my Facebook page.
And what the Facebook page “life and times of Bruce Gerencser” is preaching is ANTI-CHRISTIANITY! I have been on mission in parts of the United States like Seattle and NYC and I have met atheists there they have no exposure to the gospel at all 😭. One guy even said he is a 4th generation atheist. He was not going on Facebook making snide comments about the Bible and the gospel. He was not going on Facebook with snotty little memes making fun of Old Testament scriptures that he knew absolutely nothing about!
Would it be impolite of me to say that Barker sounds like a whiny little bitch? How dare I make snide comments about the Bible and the gospel! Besides, I evidently don’t know anything about the Old Testament. 🙂 While I don’t know everything about the Bible, I suspect that my knowledge exceeds that of Barker. Consider the gauntlet thrown down, Mr. Barker. Let’s have a Bible Knowledge fight. Are you up for the fight? Time to put your KJV where your mouth is.
LATOBG does that! And I have several examples of anyone wants to see them.
LATOBG. Damn, a new acronym. 🙂 For readers who may not know, I have a Facebook page. I post links to my writing there, along with memes and occasional comments about things I have read on the Internet. My page is not a secret. By all means, check it out and click LIKE while you are there.
If you and the fellow bloggers and Fb friends were true blue atheists you wouldn’t be making anti-Christian posts and comments.
If what Barker says is true, would it not also mean that if he was a true-red Christian, he wouldn’t be making anti-atheist posts and comments? Sorry, Tom, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and anti-debate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.
Instead of engaging my writing using good arguments, Barker’s fee-fees are hurt by what I say or the memes I post. Barker might want to peruse Christian blogs, websites, and social media pages. Anti-atheist content abounds. If I was butt-hurt every time an Evangelical posted a meme or blog post about atheists, why I would need constant applications of Vaseline just to sit down.
Memo to the Tom Barkers of the world: if what atheists write really chaps your asses, don’t read it. Problem solved.
And there is no way anyone can go into the light of Jesus Christ and then turn around and embrace the satanic darkness of unbelief ! Sad that someone can preach God’s Word and still have been lost all that time. 😭
Ah, now we get to Barker’s real issue with me. He can’t square my story with his theology, so he must come up with some way to discredit me. Thus, I was never a Christian. I was a “lost” preacher. Thousands of congregants and fellow colleagues in the ministry — all allegedly filled with the Holy Spirit — heard me preach and witnessed my life, yet none of them “discerned” that I was lost; that I was a fake Christian; that I never knew Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Amazing, right? I must have been more cunning and deceptive than Satan himself.
I strongly encourage you and anyone reading this to look up men like Lee Strobel and James Warner Wallace and Howard Storm. All were atheists who came to salvation through Christ Jesus!
I read all three of these authors. Color me not impressed. I watched a video several days ago of James Warner Wallace saying that the God of the Bible never committed genocide. And if he did, he repeatedly warned them about their false worship before he killed them. And, besides, he didn’t kill everyone, so it really wasn’t a genocide. Is this the best Evangelicalism has to offer?
Howard Storm actually had a vision of hell being dragged into it by demons!
And I had a “vision” of me and Pamela Anderson having sex. It didn’t happen, and neither did Storm’s vision of being dragged to Hell by demons. Before I believe such a story, Barker (and Storm) must provide evidence for the existence of Hell and demons. Of course, Barker can’t do that. All he has is the Bible and personal testimonies. Try harder, Tom, try harder.
Jesus Christ loves you all of you! He suffered and died and rose again to give you eternal life in heaven. Admit you are a sinner Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again Trust and receive him now.
How does Barker know Jesus loves ALL of us? What if we are apostates or reprobates? What if we are not elect? This idea that Jesus loves everyone cannot be scripturally supported. Besides, Jesus is dead. Why should any of us care if a dead man “loves” us? Imagine if I traversed the blogosphere telling people that Napoleon loves them? Who gives a fuck? Napoleon is dead.
Pray“LORD Jesus I know I am a sinner lost and I need you. Please forgive me and save me pull me from the sewers of unbelief and into your saving grace I believe you died and rose again I trust and accept you now thank you for loving me forgiving me and saving me in Jesus name Amen”
Okay, I just prayed this prayer. I am now saved and guaranteed a home in Heaven after I die. Woo! Hoo!
What a truncated, powerless gospel Baker preaches. In my Calvinistic days, we called such a gospel decisional regeneration — the belief that salvation is secured by saying and believing the right words. This is the gospel preached by most Evangelical preachers. It is a gospel of “right beliefs” instead of “right living.” Long before I became an atheist, I rejected this gospel. The Bible is clear, “without holiness no man shall see the Lord” and “faith without works is dead.” If Christianity has no power to transform, it’s worthless; it’s little more than a social club. I may be an atheist, but I might be inclined to admire a religion that took seriously practicing love, kindness, compassion, and loving your neighbor as yourself. I doubt I would become a believer, but I might say, “good job, Christians, good job.”
There is a promise that will come to pass. One day every human ever conceived will appear before Jesus Christ and will confess him as Lord. All who have trusted in him alone for eternal life and forgiveness of sins through his death and resurrection will embrace him as LORD in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who died too young to accept him including the millions murdered in the womb will also appear in a glorified body and embrace him in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who rejected him will bow and confess him as LORD in despair and regret for the decision to reject his grace and mercy and chose to pay for their own sins in the lake of fire. 😭😭 (and YES! It is very real!)
Ah yes, we can’t have an email from an Evangelical without a threat of judgment and Hell. Does this ever work with atheists? Nope, but evidently Barker never got the memo.
in short as we head into the heart of July all atheists agnostics Anti-Christians,Muslims,Jehovah witnesses , Mormons and many others who have flat rejected Christ’s grace and/or tried to earn their salvation through “religion” and good works one day will wish they were all at a water park!
In other words, everyone is going to Hell except Barker and those who believe like him. He and “Dr.” David Tee (theologyarcheology), along with Daniel Kluver will have Heaven all to themselves. Heaven will be a zoo no one wants to visit.
God bless
In other words, fuck you, Bruce. I hope you burn in Hell.
If Heaven is filled with Tom Barkers, give me Hell every time. Fortunately, Barker and I are headed to the same place — the grave. See ya there, Tom. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, I received the following email from a Christian man named Wesley. It is one of the most assumption-filled emails I have ever received. Based on the server logs, I suspect Wesley is a follower of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist and pastor C.T. Townsend. So what’s with Townsend’s followers, right?
As you shall see below, Wesley makes all sorts of assumptions about me, none of which are true. My response is indented and italicized.
My question is serious and before you reply with a long rant, I would like you to know that as stated before it is at the heart “serious” and I would appreciate a serious reply.
I can’t read Wesley’s heart, so all I can do is respond to what he has written. I am not a mind reader. I have no way of differentiating between a “serious” and not serious email/comment. Instead, I respond to what people say. Sometimes, I give people the “Bruce Gerencser Treatment.” I make no apology for doing so. One of the great things about leaving Christianity is that I no longer have to fake play-nice to people. Attack me personally or shit on my doorstep, and I will likely give you a shellacking. Ask a thoughtful, honest question, and I will respond in kind.
Not and angry and aggressive reply reflecting your hatred but with respect as I will in no way show you disrespect.
Wesley assumes I am angry and filled with hatred. He mistakes passion and directness for anger. He mistakes disagreement for hatred. How many times do I need to say that I am not, by nature, an angry, hateful man? Can I become angry? Sure, I am human. That’s said, I am generally a pleasant, happy man — even though I live with debilitating sickness and pain.
Question: If you hate God, Christianity, etc. then why do you have an overwhelming desire to disprove, attack, undermine etc if you will, something that you believe is a fallacy or fantasy? As many other atheists do the same thing I always pondered this.
Wesley wrongly assumes I hate God. I don’t. People read my post, Why I Hate Jesus, and they conclude that I “hate” God. Such people fail to understand the nuance and context of this post. If Wesley is basing his assumptions about me on that post, I hope he will re-read the article and think about what I am actually saying. Try harder, Wesley, try harder.
I am an agnostic and an atheist. As an atheist, I believe there is no God. Based on the available evidence, I have concluded that the Christian God (Wesley’s God) is a work of fiction. Further, I have weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. Thus, I don’t “hate” God. In fact, it would be silly for me to hate God or any other fictional being. Imagine me saying I hate Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Silly, right? So it is with God.
What I DO hate is Fundamentalist Christianity. Hopefully, Wesley understands what I am saying here. I hate what Fundamentalist Christianity does to people. I hate the psychological (and, at times, physical) harm it causes. Simply put, Fundamentalist Christianity hurts people. Who are the people behind the culture war? Who are the people behind attempts to turn the United States into a theocracy? Who are the people trying to ban abortion and force LGBTQ people back in the closet? Who are the people who demand prayer and Bible reading in public schools? Who are the people who want to regulate what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms? Who are the people who want preferential treatment for their religion? Need I go on? Fundamentalist Christians, that’s who.
As long as Fundamentalist Christians do these things, I intend to push back. Are Wesley and others like him willing to “live and let live”? Of course not. There’s no king but Jesus, Evangelicals say, and as long as they keep trying to make Jesus the ruler and king over all, I intend to fight back.
The stated purpose of this blog is to help those who have questions and doubts about Christianity or who have left Christianity. My target audience had NEVER been committed followers of Jesus. Therefore, I limit my interaction with such people to responding to their emails and comments.
I am just one man with a story to tell. Unfortunately, it seems that Wesley doesn’t want me to tell my story. Evangelicals have blogs, websites, churches, and parachurch ministries, all of which are used to preach the gospel, evangelize, and tell their stories. I assume Wesley thinks this is fine. Why, then, should atheists and agnostics not do the same? I think my beliefs and values are superior to Christianity. So why wouldn’t I want to share them?
Wesley thinks I have an “overwhelming desire” to attack God/Christianity/Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am retired. Writing for this blog is my “job,” but it’s not the sum of my life. First, I am quite sick. Last night, I had my worst bout of pain — ever. Quite frankly, I wanted to die. I was flopping and thrashing on the bed, trying to find a way to lessen the pain. Nothing worked, including narcotics, NSAIDs, and potent muscle relaxers. I finally took my pain to the living room, hoping not to disturb Polly’s sleep further. She was, of course, worried. Today, I am tired and weak, but thanks be to Loki, my pain is not as bad. At no time last night did I think about God/Christianity/Bible/atheism. Sorry, Jesus ain’t that important to me.
However, the people who read this blog ARE important to me. I know that every day someone, maybe lots of someones, will find help through my writing. I know that what I do matters.
I have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. I am an avid Cincinnati Reds, Cincinnati Bengals, and Ohio State fan. I am a Lionel Trains collector. I am a photographer. I love to take road trips and eat out. And most of all, I am married to the most awesome woman in the world.
I hope Wesley understands that he has a truncated view of my life; that I don’t sit around all day raging against God. Tomorrow, my oldest son and his girlfriend are taking Polly and me to Cincinnati to watch the Reds play the Chicago Cubs. On Sunday, our youngest son and fiancée are hosting a family party. Hopefully, I get to see all of my children and grandchildren. I’m sure I will have nary a thought about God/Christianity/Bible/atheism.
If we are all going back to the dirt and there is nothing after then why bother? It seems that if Christian’s are wasting their time then would it not be, in the same sense, of equal and mutual regard concerning the plight of a zealous atheist?
Is Wesley saying that without his peculiar God that his life would not have meaning or purpose? Is he saying that non-Christians (most of the inhabitants of earth) have empty lives? Is he saying that the only reason his life matters is because the Bible says God will reward him after death?
Yes, death is the end for all of us. Yes, the afterlife is a myth. But, these facts don’t negate the fact that we DO have THIS life; that we are blessed to be among the living. Just because I will die (sooner than later) doesn’t mean that the present doesn’t matter. It does. You see, I care about others. I genuinely want what’s best for them. I want my children and their families to have better lives than I had. I want to see them prosper and live in peace. I want to help make the world a better place to live. I even want Wesley to have a good life.
I don’t believe I have ever said that Christians are wasting their time by practicing their religion. I am a proponent of free speech and freedom of (and from) religion. That said, I do think that Evangelicals are wasting their time trying to evangelize atheists. Thousands of Evangelicals have tried to win me to (or back) Jesus since 2007. I am not a prospect for Heaven, and neither are the unbelievers who read this blog. Thus, when Evangelicals continue to preach at us and attempt to use worn-out, lame apologetical methods, they are wasting their time.
If you just want to live then just live right?
Sure, but as long as Fundamentalist Christians psychologically (and, at times, physically) harm others, I can’t and won’t just sit by and do nothing. As long as Evangelical preachers sexually molest children, rape teenagers, and take sexual advantage of people, I will speak out, publicizing their abhorrent behavior for all to see. As longs as racial minorities, LGBTQ people, and non-religious people are marginalized and harmed, I will fight back.
“Live and let live” is a grand objective, but as long as we live in a world where religious zealots, bigots, and racists harm others, I can’t ignore what’s going on around me. This was true when I was a Fundamentalist Christian, and it is true now.
I hope you will reply but if you feel an overwhelming need to vent or otherwise… please refrain from doing so as I am TRULY seeking and want no part of an agenda. With warm regards and wishing you to have a wonderful day, Wesley.
For some reason, Wesley wants to control what I say or how I respond to him. Sorry, dude, the moment you hit “send,” you lost control of my response. You could have just asked a question, sans the subtle attacks on my character. Instead, you chose to do otherwise, thus my response. I believe I have answered you fairly, openly, and honestly. If you view my response as angry or hateful, that’s your problem, not mine.
I hope I have adequately responded to your assumptions and questions. If not, please let me know.
Saved by Reason,
My editor, Carolyn, often helps me out by answering emails. Unbeknownst to me, she was writing an answer to Wesley at the same time I was. Her answer appears below:
Wesley,
I am Bruce’s editor and I often help him stay abreast of his email, so I am answering you. No rant, no anger, no aggression, and I am taking your question seriously.
I think you read Bruce wrong. He has no hatred, except for the abuses that take place in Evangelical churches. Bruce does not hate God, nor does he hate Christianity. Let’s address the “god” thing first: Bruce does not believe in god – any god. It’s pretty hard to hate something you don’t believe exists. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, gods – they all fall into the same category. They are mythical beings and Bruce neither hates nor likes, because they don’t exist.
Now to Christianity: As you probably know, Bruce was a part of Christianity for more than 50 years. When he left Christianity, and subsequently deconverted, he didn’t leave in a rage of anger, but it was probably more like with a broken heart. He searched over 100 churches looking for one that followed the tenets of Jesus. Instead he found churches that were more wrapped up in themselves and who only paid lip service to Jesus and Christianity.
Now, as to what Bruce hates: he hates the sexual and psychological (and sometimes physical) abuses that take place in IFB churches – he was a pastor of various IFB churches for 25 years, so this is where his heart was and where he has the most knowledge. He also hates abuses in other churches, but focuses his writings on IFB churches because they are the ones he knows best. He hates the pastors that engage in abusive conduct. This is why he write his Black Collar Crime series, because he believes it is important that everyone knows and understands that pastors are not “Men of God,” and are not above everyone else, nor are they above the law, but that they often engage in conduct that makes them the lowest of the low.
He also hates the “under the blood” philosophy, which allows malefactors to escape responsibility for their wrongdoings by sweeping it all under the rug, claiming that whatever they did before they were saved doesn’t matter. Indeed, they often keep on engaging in egregious conduct after they were saved, believing that all they have to do is get saved again and all is forgiven.
You asked, “If we are all going back to the dirt and there is nothing after then why bother?” Bruce takes a humanist approach to life. Among other things, he works every day to be kind to others. And when he fails, he is quick to own his failure and to apologize to the person to whom he was unkind. Indeed, here is advice that Bruce gives to readers on his About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Carolyn
She knoweth me well. Carolyn is known in our home as my “other wife.” 🙂
Several days ago, Tom, an Evangelical Christian, sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized.
Since 2007, thousands of Evangelicals zealots have emailed me, sent me messages on social media, or left comments on this blog/Facebook/Twitter. Bloggers have deconstructed my life or exposed the errors of my way. Preachers have preached sermons exposing my apostasy and heresy. Each of them has an opinion about my writing, story, past and present life, or where I am headed after I die. I have come to accept that such treatment is the price I pay for daring to tell my story; for daring to speak about what goes on behind closed doors in Evangelical churches and parachurch ministries; for daring to publicize the criminal behavior — mainly sex crimes — of Evangelical preachers. How dare I share with readers my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. Why can’t I just shut up and move on? some zealots say. They want to freely preach the gospel and share their conversion stories to anyone and everyone, yet atheists and agnostics are expected not to do the same. While there are increasing numbers of atheist blogs, websites, podcasts, and call-in shows, their presence pales compared to those of Evangelicals.
As long as I can figure out a way to type — which is becoming increasingly difficult for a myriad of reasons — I intend to keep writing. Since prayers — thousands of them over the years — to the Christian God asking him to stop my work have failed, Evangelicals might want to rethink how best to reach or stop me. Using the same worn-out arguments, pejorative statements, and character assassinations no longer works. There was a time when such things worked, psychologically wounding me, resulting in me shutting down my blog. That’s old history. This iteration of my blog is 6 1/2 years old. Thanks to years of counseling and support from many of you, I can see beyond verbal assaults (even death threats) by God’s chosen ones. Simply put, as long as I am breathing, I ain’t going away.
Now to Evangelical Tom’s (ET) email and my response.
Every publication in the world references the birth of Jesus Christ by placing the date at the top of the page. Have they conspired to place Jesus’ birthday on every page to make atheists look like fools? Ha ha… Even you’re forced to use Jesus’ birthday for every article you post. Why? The entire world’s calendar is based on the birth of Christ for a reason.
Tom is ignorant of the development of the calendar most of the world now uses. Currently, we use what is called the Gregorian calendar. Developed in the sixteenth century, the Gregorian calendar was based on the Julian calendar — a calendar used for 1,600 years. This calendar was adapted from the Roman calendar. Any cursory reading of history reveals that the “Christian” calendar’s foundation is non-Christian/secular/pagan. I am not an expert on this subject, but it took me all of five minutes to learn that Tom is — let me say this charitably — uninformed.
Tom asserts that “every publication in the world references the birth of Jesus Christ.” Yet, evidently, Tom has never heard of the Islamic calendar, Nepal Sambat, or Hebrew calendar — to name a few.
In a few sentences, I have shown that Tom’s calendar claims are not true. Besides, why does it matter what our calendar is based upon? Tom claims there is a “reason,” but he never gives it. In the future, he might start by stating on what date, exactly, Jesus was born. Was Jesus born on year zero? Nope. Historians generally believe Jesus was born between 6 BCE to 4 BCE. Surely Tom knows that the date of Jesus’ birth is NOT mentioned in the Bible. If the birth of Jesus is the monumental event Tom says it is, the Bible would tell us what day and what year the most important figure in human history was born. Yet, the Bible says nothing.
I do agree that Christians should be held to a higher degree of accountability for their wickedness, but rejecting God and his word is foolish. Your articles may serve a purpose by exposing tares who are impostors, but God is not to blame for the sins of men.
I assume Tom is referencing the Black Collar Crime series, which details the arrests and convictions of Evangelical preachers for criminal behavior (mainly sex crimes). I don’t believe I have ever said that the behavior of these miscreants played any part in my deconversion. Perhaps Tom missed the WHY? page — you know, the page that lists several posts detailing my reasons for walking away from Christianity.
Tom says that God is not to blame for human sin. However, the Bible teaches that God is the creator of everything. I wonder if Tom has ever heard about the sovereignty of God? You know, the belief that God is in control of EVERYTHING. And if the Christian deity isn’t in control of everything, he isn’t God. If God created everything, how is he not the creator of sin? If God controls every aspect of our lives, right down to knowing how many hairs are on our heads, how is he not responsible for our behavior? Evangelicals like Tom love to talk about an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful creator God, yet when it comes to bad shit Evangelical preachers do, hey, that’s on them, not God. If God is all that the Bible says he is, he could stop predator preachers from raping and molesting children; he could stop preachers from taking advantage of vulnerable women (and men). Yet, he does nothing. This is why most atheists are better people than the Bible God. If we saw someone sexually assaulting a child, we would do something about it. Silence is consent.
I actually agree with Tom. God is not culpable for vile criminal acts perpetrated by so-called men of God. The reason for this, however, is that there is no God. As an atheist and a humanist, I am a proponent of personal accountability and responsibility. But, unlike Tom, I don’t believe in a magic get-out-of-jail-free card called 1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Every preacher featured in the Black Collar Crime series prayed and asked Jesus to forgive them for their sins. God forgave them, and with a loving hug told them, be a nice boy and *wink wink* sin no more. Should we just set them free? If God has forgiven them, shouldn’t we? Of course not. Justice demands that criminal behavior be punished. What God allegedly says doesn’t matter.
My perspective is that you’re likely a reprobate who is consumed with writing about other reprobates. Correct me if I’m wrong and I’ll pray for God to have mercy on you.
According to Romans 1 and 2, a reprobate is someone who has crossed a moral line of no return. Once this line is crossed, a person can’t be saved. Tom thinks I am a reprobate. Why? Because I write the Black Collar Crime series. In Tom’s mind, exposing sex crimes by Evangelical preachers is a sure sign that I am a reprobate. Figure that one out.
Romans 1:28-32 describes the behavior of reprobates:
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Is there anything in this list of reprobate behaviors that remotely reflects how I live my life? Or is Tom just making shit up? Tom needs me to be a reprobate for my story to “fit” in his Evangelical box. If I am a kind, loving, thoughtful person — and I am — that means I am not a reprobate. I am just a good person who doesn’t need God, the Bible, or threats of judgment to treat others well.
I’m sure you’ve read this one a few times:
Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
No, I have never heard that a “fool says in his heart there is no God.” That’s sarcasm, by the way. I have heard (and preached on) this verse countless times. The same goes for Psalm 14:1.
Here’s the problem with Psalm 53:1. The text says atheists are corrupt and do abominable acts. While this certainly can be said of some atheists, most unbelievers I know are good people. In fact, most atheists’ lives measure up with the best of Christians, albeit the sex is a lot better. Nothing like atheist sex, baby! 🙂 The Toms of the world need atheists to be bad people for their worldview to make sense. Atheists stand on the side of Satan and evil. We are an enemy that must be battled and defeated. What if we are, instead, just people with different opinions on God, Jesus, the Bible, and the afterlife? What if we are just people who have a different idea about what gives life meaning and purpose? What if Tom and others like him saw atheists and other unbelievers as they are instead of the caricature they have fabricated in their minds?
The only reason this blog exists is because of the psychological harm caused by Fundamentalist Christian interpretations of the Bible. If Evangelicals stopped trying to shove their religion down the throats of unbelievers, stopped trying to force people to follow the immoral teachings of the Bible, and stopped trying to turn the United States into a Christian nation, I would shutter this blog and never write another word. If Evangelicals stopped abusing people psychologically (and, at times, physically), I wouldn’t have anything to write about. That Evangelical beliefs and practices continue to cause harm is incontrovertible. As long as this is true, I intend to keep sharing my story and keep giving my honest critiques of the one true faith. Call me a “fool” all you want. Calling me names will not silence me. Now, you could buy my silence. Tom, please make that $1,000,000 check payable to Bruce Gerencser. After receiving your check which clears your bank, I will stop writing for this blog (and that million-dollar price for silence is available to any of my critics). Time to put your money where your mouth is.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
I have never, ever heard John 3:3 before. *sigh* Tom sure showed that Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser, right? The “mighty” inspired, inerrant, infallible King James Bible says:
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
Yep, just hearing John 3:3 has brought me to my knees. I am laughing hysterically at the notion that just quoting words from an ancient religious text will somehow magically cause me to change my mind about God/Jesus/Bible/Christianity. Besides, I thought Tom said I was a reprobate. Doesn’t that mean that quoting the Bible to me is a waste of time? Hmm … maybe, just maybe, Tom is talking to himself. Maybe he has doubts, and by preaching to me, he is trying to reinforce his beliefs and prop up his faith.
What, exactly, did Tom hope to accomplish by emailing me? I have posed this question to other Evangelical zealots more times than I can count. I am not low-hanging fruit. There’s no chance that I will return to Evangelicalism. Even God himself, the big three-in-one, can’t make me return to the leeks and garlic of Egypt. I’ve been to the Promised Land, and I ain’t coming back. I have done my homework and concluded that the central claims of Christianity are not true. I have heard every possible argument for the existence of God and the truthfulness of Christian beliefs. I can’t imagine a zealot coming up with a new (or improved) argument. Christians have had almost fourteen years to change my mind, yet I remain unconvinced, an unrepentant atheist. Will this fact keep Evangelicals from contacting me? Of course not. Why? Because it has never been about me; it’s about them and their need to be right.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Bruce Gerencser
After reading a handful of posts, Mike was ready to render judgment:
I pray that the God you preached about all those years will pierce your heart and bring you back to Him, as well as all the people you have influence over. After reading some on your website, I am afraid that Satan has tricked you, like so many, that you don’t need God.
Eternity is to long to be wrong. Heaven and Hell are real places, and we ALL will spend eternity in one or the other.
That’s all you can say? Reductionist bullshit told to me by hundreds and hundreds of Christians?
Do better, Mike. Think, listen, read, and learn. You don’t know as much as you think you do. I know how many posts you read (server logs don’t lie). Can you really say you made a good faith effort to read and understand my story? Or did you read just enough to pass judgment?
I may use your email as fodder for a blog post. I’ll send you the link if I do.
God bless.
Bruce Gerencser
Mike did not respond to me.
Mike ignores the fact that I am an atheist, so suggesting that I am being “tricked” by Satan is, to put it mildly, a joke. I don’t believe in the existence of the Christian God, nor do I believe in the existence of Satan. As a man on the short side of life (please see Giving In When It’s The Only Thing You Can Do), I have thought a good bit about death. As an atheist, I am confident that once I draw my last breath, my life is over. While I will live on in the minds of my family and friends, my cremated remains will be sprinkled by my loved ones on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.
As is often the case with Christian zealots, Mike passive-aggressively threatens me with Hell. According to Mike’s theological beliefs, Heaven and Hell are real places. People who have beliefs different from him will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire (Hell is a temporary holding cell, which God casts into the Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:14). Outside of the Bible, there’s no evidence for the existence of Heaven or Hell. In fact, there’s ample evidence that such places are fictional, tools used to reward and threaten people by churches and clerics. As an atheist, I do no fear going to Hell. And, I have no desire to go to Heaven. Why would I want to spend eternity with the Mikes and David Tees of the world? No thanks.
Mike believes that Satan has tricked me into believing that I don’t need God. Unlike Mike, I don’t need a psychological crutch to make it through the day. I can’t think of one aspect of my life where I “need” God. The only time I think about God is when I write for this blog. That’s it. I choose, instead, to focus on the present, life as it is.
Mike could have made a good faith effort to get to know me and understand my story. He could have asked me questions after reading my autobiographical posts. Instead, Mike went into preaching mode. Whether he had a pathological need to do so or felt “led” by the Holy Spirit, I do not know. Over the years, countless Evangelicals have taken a similar approach with me. If they were willing (and they are not) to take a bit of advice from a reprobate/apostate/atheist, I would tell them that this approach does not work; that if the goal is to engage in thoughtful discussion with me or learn more about my story, you might try a different approach.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
C.T. Townsend is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist evangelist and pastor. Townsend is the pastor of Victory Baptist Church in North Augusta, South Carolina. I have previously written about Townsend:
In the eyes of some of Townsend’s followers, he is a demigod, a man of God who must be defended at all costs. As I showed in my previous posts, some of Townsend’s devotees are vitriolic and hateful. Townsend likely knows about my writing. My posts show up first page in Google Search [when you search for “Evangelist CT Townsend”.] I suspect that this why my posts about him attract so much attention from loving, kind devotees of his. Townsend has made no effort to stop his attack dogs, so I assume he is okay with their defenses of his preacher virginity.
I don’t care who you are really, but you are dead wrong in you ideology of The preachers that preach the truth. The truth hurts and people run from the truth especially when it may take away their pleasures of sin.
Calvin, is Proverbs 18:13 in your Bible? If not, let me remind you of what God’s word says about your comment: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. You read all of one post on this site before you commented. You made no effort to learn anything about me, and as a result, you come off as ignorant, ill-informed, and downright hilarious. The least you could have done is read the ABOUT page or the WHY? page. Instead, you decided to fire away at someone you know nothing about.
I get it, you are butt-hurt over me saying negative things about the man, the myth, the legend, C.T. Townsend. You think Townsend is a God-called, Holy Ghost anointed man of God, a foot-stomping, Devil-chasing, hellfire-and-brimstone truth-teller. You love the fact that Townsend beats people over the head with the sin stick. You enjoy the abuse, having been taught that such treatment is God-ordained and good for you. “I am beating you because I love you, says the abusive parent to their child. Townsend is the parent in this story.
You Mr Bruce And folks like you are why people will not ever know the truth and the good news….
You are unaware that I was in the Christian church for fifty years, attended an IFB Bible college, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. All told, I preached over 4,000 sermons. I know almost everything one can know about Evangelical “truth” and the “good news” (Christian gospel). Would you like to quiz me on my knowledge of these things?
Now that I am on the other side of the Christian-atheist divide, I continue to preach “truth,” albeit a truth rooted in reason, skepticism, humanism, and intellectual inquiry. I challenge you to step outside of what you think you know and entertain the thought that you might be wrong. For example, I assume you believe the Bible is inspired, inerrant, and infallible. Are you sure the Bible is what you and C.T. Townsend claim it is? I encourage you to check out books written by Dr. Bart Ehrman, a New Testament scholar and professor at the University of North Carolina. You can find a list of his books here. If you are a seeker of “truth,” as you say, you will find Ehrman’s books enlightening and informative.
I wish you well in living your “it’s ok world” and follow TV preachers such as Joel ( smiley ) Osteen and lead people to believe everyone is going to heaven with no repercussions …..
I am not sure what you mean by an “it’s okay world.” I assume you mean a world where certain human behaviors deemed sinful by you and Townsend are considered “okay.” I suspect you are upset over abortion, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ rights, Pride Month — and all the other culture war hot button issues that Evangelicals find offensive.
I support equal rights and dignity for all, Calvin, even you. Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the private sexual lives of others. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms is no one’s business — including yours. Why are Evangelicals so vexed by the behavior of the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world? Especially since we know God’s chosen ones live lives quite similar to those of the heathens they condemn. Countless “great men of God” have been exposed as fornicators, adulterers, and child molesters. (Please see the Black Collar Crime Series.) These men, to the man, were preachers of “truth” and the “good news.” Please explain this fact to me, Calvin.
I busted a gut, as did my godless ex-preacher’s wife, when you suggested I was a follower of Joel Osteen. I have never been a fan of Osteen. I preached against him back in the day, and today I view him as a modern-day Elmer Gantry — a smiling, smooth-talking con man.
You seem to be really upset over too many people getting into Heaven. Can’t have that right? If everyone goes to Heaven after they die, that means your beliefs and salvation experience didn’t matter; that you weren’t special, after all. You need there to be a Hell to justify your harmful beliefs and practices. If there’s no Hell, why live a holy life, right? If there’s no Hell, you might as well get drunk, watch porn, have sex with your neighbor (man or woman), and follow your heart’s every desire. Is the threat of Hell the only reason you treat others with respect (except for Evangelical-preachers-turned-atheists, it seems), love your neighbors, love your family, and generally treat others kindly? In other words, you are only a good person because God threatened you with judgment and Hell if you don’t worship him and follow his commands (no matter how harmful and silly they are).
As an atheist and a humanist, I live the way I do because I desire what’s best for myself and others. I am motivated by love and kindness, no God needed. No Heaven, no Hell, just this life, Calvin. I try to be a good person because I want a better today, tomorrow, and future. I have six children and thirteen grandchildren. I have been married for almost forty-three years — my family matters to me. I want them to have safe, prosperous, and happy lives. Again, no God needed.
You are Sad..I will pray for you and those that are lost and think like you.
I assume you are using the word “sad” in a colloquial sense: worthless, a piece of shit, disappointing, a joke. Had you bothered to read my autobiographical writing, you would have learned I indeed have reasons to be “sad.” I have battled depression most of my adult life — both with and after Jesus. I have gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis. I live with unrelenting pain, and must use a cane or wheelchair to get around. I have plenty of reasons to feel “sad.” Not that you give a shit about my suffering, Calvin. All that matters to you is defending C.T. Townsend’s honor. Or maybe what you meant by the word sad is “small ass dick” — though I am not certain how you would know the size of my penis. Having you been spying on me?
I was a born-again Christian for almost fifty years, Calvin. I assume you believe in once-saved-always-saved. If so, how dare you say that I am “lost.” According to your theology, I am still a Christian, and there’s literally nothing I can say, write, or do to lose my salvation. If you object, are you saying that salvation is dependent, not on Jesus, but right beliefs? Even here, I had the right beliefs for five decades. Does one lose their salvation when they stop believing the “right” things?
Please do pray for me. You need the practice.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
A perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God created a perfect universe 6,023 years ago, inhabited by two perfect humans, Adam and Eve, and a plethora of perfect animals. We know all this because a perfect inspired, inerrant, and infallible religious text compiled over thousands of years says so. These things are true because the Bible says they are true. How do we know that what the Bible says is true? Because the Bible says so . . .
This perfect God also created angels, some of whom were fallen beings, creatures who hated and despised God, creatures whose sworn mission was to overthrow and destroy God’s creation. Have you ever wondered why God created fallen, sinful angels? Me too. If God is this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being, why did he create these angels to start with? This question will lurk behind everything I write in this post. If God is whom the Bible says he is, then WHY?
One of these fallen angels was a sexy, redheaded, left-handed being named Lucifer. Lucifer hated God and was determined to destroy Jehovah’s perfect creation. What better way to do so than to tempt Adam and Eve to break the rule God had given them: thou shalt not eat fruit off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
And the Lord God commanded the man [Adam], saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Lucifer, a fallen archangel — a big shot in Heaven — decided to use a walking, talking snake — either by possessing the snake or using it as a ventriloquist dummy — to tempt earth’s first humans.
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
God is omniscient, so he knew that this would happen. God is omnipotent, so he had the power and ability to keep it from happening. And despite controlling everything, God did what, exactly? God had every choice at his disposal, yet he chose to do nothing. For those who dare to argue that Lucifer, Adam, and Eve had free will, and that’s why things happened the way they did, isn’t God ultimately responsible for everything? Isn’t God sovereign? God could have chosen NOT to create fallen angels or give Adam and Eve free will. God could have chosen not to plant the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the Garden of Eden. God had endless possibilities before him, yet he chose what’s recorded in Genesis 1-3 and the rest of God’s Word, the Bible. Think about this fact for a moment. What does it say about God’s reasoning skills?
Adam and Eve’s choice to eat fruit from a forbidden tree caused all the pain, evil, and suffering we see today. War, famine, and disease all trace back to Adam and Eve. Rape, sexual assault, murder, robbery, lying, and cheating, all Adam and Eve’s fault. Our world and our lives could be radically different if God had gotten up off the couch, shut off the TV, and stopped the events that took place in Genesis 1-3. Instead, he did nothing. Well, we can’t say “nothing” in a literal sense. God has spent the past 6,000+ years “bothered” by what we humans do. He even wrote a bestselling book, the Bible, to express how bothered he was by our “sinful” behavior.
Recently, an Evangelical man by the name of Richard left a comment on the post Dear Jesus. I responded to Richard here. Richard responded to my post via email. Here’s the exchange that took place between us:
Richard:
Richard here again, thank you for your response. I dont like labels, I follow Jesus Christ thats all. In response to you comments (humbly)
There are no low hanging fruits [people more easily persuaded by Christianity], you have to toil for each and every one of them.
Just because there is no answer now does not mean, there will never be. Remember understanding without words?, I think its in Isaiah.
God always sends Richards,Pauls and Peters, (murderers, cowards and fools). They understand forgiveness and restoration.
Maybe God did tell me to write you, maybe time has come for you to return and do what you do best. He is not finished with you. There is a time for everything. God bless you and your family even though you dont believe in him…yet. Take care.
Bruce:
If you want to interact with me, please comment on the post. I have no interest in interacting with you privately. You ignored my commenting guidelines. What does that say about you and your faith?
Go away, and find someone else to bother.
Richard:
Dear Bruce,
My apologies for not following your commenting guidelines. It was not intentional. I was using my mobile. Sorry for bothering you and I will not bother you again but I hope this tells you something about my faith, I am able to admit to making mistakes. God bless.
Richard is what I call a God-botherer. My friend Zoe had this to say about Richard:
Sorry to bother you, yet, is he? I don’t think so. The person who is bothered is Richard himself. He’s only following the story about a God who is bothered. And I can’t blame Him. The whole story is quite bothersome.
As always — okay 99.9 percent of the time 🙂 — Zoe is right.
The Bible is the written record of all the human behaviors that bother God. In the Old Testament alone, there are 613 God-given laws pertaining to human behavior. Dozens and dozens of laws are added to this list in the New Testament. God is bothered by how people cook, what they eat, and how they grow their crops. God is bothered by how people build their homes, what type of clothing they wear, and how they keep their hair. God is also bothered by how, when, where, and why people have sex. Taking the Bible as a whole, it’s clear that God spends every moment of every day being bothered by human behavior — behavior he created and could have made differently. If God didn’t want LGBTQ people to have sex, he could have changed their DNA in a way that would have eliminated the want, need, and desire to fuck. The same goes for heterosexuals. If God didn’t want humans to commit adultery or fornication, could he not have created them in such a way that they wouldn’t do so? With God, all things are possible, right? I heard countless preachers say that nothing is too hard for God. Were they lying?
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Does nothing include the human behaviors that bother God? Without me [Jesus] you can’t do anything, the man, the myth, and the legend says. Did Jesus mean what he said, or must this verse be properly interpreted?
The Apostle Paul said: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me (Philippians 4:13). Implication? Without Christ, we can’t do anything. Does that include human behaviors that bother God? Just taking the Word of God literally.
Paul also said: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth . . . For in him we live, and move, and have our being (Acts 17: 24, 28). According to my Evangelical pastors and professors, it is God who gives us our breath; it is God who gives us the ability to live and move. Without God, we would all instantly die. Everything necessary to live comes from God. Peter said in 2 Peter 1:3 that Jesus [according as his divine power] hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness.ALL things. Doesn’t it stand to reason, then, that every human behavior comes from God; that God is bothered by behaviors he gave us?
If God didn’t want to be bothered by human behavior, he could have created us differently. If anyone is to blame for how things are, God is. Paul, the first Calvinist, says in Romans 9 that God is the potter and we are the clay; that God alone determines who will and won’t be saved. By extension, does this not mean that God is in control of e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g?
Richard, along with his fellow God-botherers, believe the Bible is a supernatural book written by a supernatural God; that its words are straight from God’s mouth to their ears; that every word is to be practiced, enforced, and believed. Thus, whatever bothers God bothers the Richards of the world. One need only pay attention to the current culture wars to see that Evangelicals are bothered by all sorts of human behaviors. And that means if they are bothered, God is bothered. Isn’t it interesting that God is bothered by the same human behaviors as Evangelicals? Canny how the mind of God and the minds of Evangelicals always agree. Why this would almost make you think humans created God and wrote the Bible.
I grew up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. IFB churches and pastors are bothered by just about every human behavior you can think of. Here’s a list of some of the behaviors I heard condemned by IFB preachers (and later condemned myself):
Watching MTV
Watching HBO
Listening to secular radio
Listening to contemporary Christian music
Listening to rock and roll music
listening to country music
Long hair on men
Short skirts on women
Pants on women
Shorts on women
Wearing wire-rimmed glasses
Men having facial hair
Smoking
Drinking alcohol
Going to the movie theater
Voting Democratic
Attending a liberal Christian college
Female preaching
Effeminate male preachers
Effeminate men
Hen-pecked men
Haughty women
Church members who disagree with the pastor
Premarital sex
Extramarital sex
Getting an abortion
Practicing Christmas/Halloween/Easter
Reading any Bible translation but the KJV
Dancing
Card Playing
Attending non-IFB churches
Shall I go on? The list of human behaviors that bother IFB preachers is as vast as the human mind. Every church and every pastor have their own list of human behaviors that bother them. While many Christians call such extremism legalism, isn’t it a matter of degree? Don’t all Christians have at least a mental list of human behaviors that bother them; that they believe are contrary to the Bible’s teachings? Isn’t that what sin is: human behaviors that bother God? And shouldn’t Christians love what God loves and hate what God hates? No shellfish for you, Richard.
Let me conclude this post with a short Disney video that perfectly illustrates the point I am trying to make in this post.
The Bible says that Christians have the mind of Christ [God]. Winnie the Pooh, then, is the God of the Bible, and representative of millions and millions of Evangelical Christians. Oh, bother . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, an Australian Evangelical man by the name of Richard left the following comment on the post titled Dear Jesus. My response is indented and italicized.
I stumbled on to your website and man, I would have lost my faith ten times over!!.
What did you actually read on this site? Did you break anything when you stumbled? The Dear Jesus post primarily deals with the problem of evil and suffering, told from an intimate, personal perspective. If you want to understand my story in its entirety, please read the posts on the WHY? page.
I appreciate your recognition of the fact that I had a difficult and traumatic upbringing. One of your fellow Christian apologists, Mike Kuvakos, took a different approach, choosing instead to tell me, “get over it.”
That said, the primary reasons for my deconversion are intellectual, not emotional. Despite all the trauma mentioned in the Dear Jesus post, I remained a committed follower of Jesus Christian until age fifty. If past trauma was going to derail my faith, this would have happened years ago. Instead, I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years, leaving the ministry in 2005, and leaving Christianity in 2008.
If asked to give the primary reasons I left Christianity, I typically say:
1) I no longer believed the Bible was inerrant and infallible
2) I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity were true
3) Christianity no longer made sense to me
Secondarily, I concluded that Christianity had no persuasive arguments for:
1) The problem of evil
2) The problem of suffering
3) The hiddenness of God
I lost my faith for many years (for lesser things) suffered violence and poverty, had nothing, lost everything. I was bitter with God for his failures , the hypocrisy of the pastors, the immorality of church leaders, the molesters and the thieves, but now I believe again. He reached out to me and brought me back.
I get it, God/Jesus/Christianity works for you. You find meaning, purpose, and direction in your faith. I, however, find the opposite. My life is better in every way post-Jesus. I have learned that I don’t need God/Jesus/faith to have meaning and purpose in my life. A good life is possible without Jesus. I humbly suggest you give it a try.
You see, we cannot run away, we will eventually go back, there is nothing else in this world that is better than Him, no matter how we see and rationalize the failures.
Running away implies that I am trying to avoid something — I’m not. You seem to think I am wrongly rationalizing what I consider faults and failures within the structure of Christianity. However, I have honestly and opening weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. Do you think it was easy for me to walk away from Christianity; to walk away from the ministry; to walk away from that which I held precious and dear for fifty years? I can tell you this: divorcing Jesus was painful and traumatic — even to this day. Yet, after carefully studying and investigating the central claims of Christianity, I had no choice but to say that I no longer believed. You see, truth matters to me. I couldn’t go on believing things that I knew were lies.
I know he will call you back, you don’t have to go, He will come. As you, you will believe when He comes, I am sure he will. You are a man of truth and God will honour you.
Richard, how do you know your peculiar version of God will call me back to himself? Has God told you this? Or do you just “hope” God will reclaim me? I hope for all sorts of things: the Reds winning the World Series, the Bengals winning the Super Bowl, me winning $1,000,000 in a vax-a-million lotto, my unrelenting pain to miraculously disappear. I can hope for these things to happen, but facts, reason, logic, and probabilities tell me that there is little chance that any of these “hopes” will occur in 2021-2022. I didn’t say “no chance.” Our family has nine entries left in a vax-a-million lotto. Maybe, just maybe, one of us will hear, “winner, winner, chicken dinner.”
I “could” become a Christian again. Perhaps, my conclusions about God, Christianity, and the Bible will be overthrown by overwhelming evidence to the contrary. However, thirteen years in, no Christian has provided such evidence to me, yourself included. Thousands of Christian zealots have tried to win me back to Jesus, without success. Thus, I highly doubt that sufficient evidence is forthcoming, and I am sure I will remain an atheist until I die. And then? I will be a dead atheist. 🙂
Further, I could be a reprobate or an apostate — someone who has crossed the line of no return (Romans 1). Many Christian apologists believe there is no hope for me, that I have a sinful, darkened heart and have done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29). My advice to you is that you focus on low-hanging fruit — people more likely to buy what you are selling. I am not such a person.
It’s possible that you believe that God is letting me wander for a time, and someday he will draw me back to himself. Sure, that’s possible, I suppose. However, I don’t believe God exists. If, by chance, I am wrong, then God, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit know exactly where I live. This three-headed supernatural Marvel superhero can stop by my house, email me, or send me a text. Why has it not done so? Instead of dealing with me directly, God sends the Richards of the world — thousands of them. Why is that? Why can’t God speak for himself?
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.