Over the weekend, a Christian man named Steve Williams sent me the following message on Facebook Messenger. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original. My response follows.
I’ve been concerned about professing believers falling away from the faith since a teenager over fifty years ago. About a year ago I came across something of your story in Texas, I think you were involved with a church plant in San Antonio. It seems that I recall you transitioned from being an independent, fundamental Baptist to become a Reformed Baptist but there were problems with a dictator type pastor who greatly opposed you. I may be wrong on some of the details.
That’s way too bad. If sad stories like that made you feel justified to leave the faith, my guess is that there were doubts in your mind apart from that tragedy. I would plead with you to seek the mercy and grace of God, that He would do a saving work in your mind and heart and life. He is a merciful Saviour, however His judgment is severe for the apostate. Do turn to Him today.
Pat Horner, a former Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher started Community Baptist Church in 1983. Horner, as was I at the time, was a hardcore Fundamentalist Baptist and Calvinist. By the time I arrived in Elmendorf in 1994, the church was running several hundred people in attendance. Horner and I were hardheaded, opinionated, inflexible preachers. That said, personality-wise, we couldn’t have been more different. Both of us had what I call an entrepreneurial spirit. What Community had after I showed up on the scene was two chiefs; two managers; two owners; two honchos. For readers who have owned businesses or managed concerns for others, you know this was a recipe for disaster; a colossal clusterfuck-in-the-making. Both Horner and I were authoritarian, we expressed our authority differently. Horner was a stickler on doctrine. The slightest misspoken word would bring rebuke and correction. I had more grace in my theology than Horner did. That said, when it came to how we “lived” the Christian life, my standards were more extreme than his. These differences in focus led to conflict. There were personal squabbles too, as I recount in the series mentioned above. And after seven months of conflict, I had had enough (and I am sure Horner felt similarly). So, what we really were was a couple who ran headlong into marriage, only to find out that they were incompatible. Divorce was inevitable.
While I am sure my negative experiences at Community played a small part in my deconversion, what has troubled me more is my treatment by this church post-deconversion. I have added their words, sermons, and whispers to those of former friends and colleagues in the ministry. Their hateful, judgmental words were heard loud and clear; evidence of the moral bankruptcy of Evangelical Christianity. Again, these things played a part in my deconversion, but they were not the deciding factors. I left Christianity because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity were true. (Please read The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years, and a Bible college-trained pastor for twenty-five years. I have written numerous posts about my story; about my life as a follower of Jesus, and my later deconversion from Christianity. Any fair reading of my story shows that I was a Christian; that I not only understood the gospel, but also preached it to others. There’s nothing in my story that remotely suggests that I never was a Christian, or that “God” had never performed a “saving work in my mind and heart and life.” Since God cannot speak for himself, it is up to my critics to provide evidence for their claim that I was a false Christian. I wasn’t perfect, but the bent of my life was towards holiness. Over the years I pastored scores of people and counted numerous men as colleagues in the ministry. Not one of them has ever said, “Bruce Gerencser was never a Christian.”
The bottom line is this: I once was saved, and now I am not. I know what I know, and no amount of rock-throwing from the outside will change this fact. That Williams and other Christians can’t square my story with their theology is their problem, not mine.
Williams ended his message as Evangelicals are fond of doing with a threat: “His [Williams’ God’s] judgment is severe for the apostate. ” In other words, “Bruce, you are going to burn in Hell unless you repent!” Over the past seventeen years, I have been threatened with eternal torture and Hell countless times — hundreds and hundreds of times. Look, I’m an atheist. I have not been presented with sufficient evidence for the existence of God — particularly the Christian deity. Jesus is dead, God is a myth, as are Heaven and Hell. Knowing this about me, why do Christians continue to threaten me with eternal, everlasting, neverending torture at the hands of their God? I suspect that these threatenings aren’t about me at all; that the need to be right fuels thundering pronouncements and imprecatory prayers against people different from them.
I am not low-hanging fruit, so it is beyond me why Evangelicals ignorantly think they can win me back to Jesus or, according to their theology, win me to Jesus for the first time. Regardless, I know all I need to know about God, Jesus, Christianity, and salvation. I am an atheist today, not because of a traumatic religious experience thirty years ago. but because I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. It is really that simple. (Please read Why?)
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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What is it about Evangelicals who think that I am being less than honest about my past and present life? Rarely does a week go by without someone questioning my truthfulness or doubting my explanations as to why I left Christianity.
Today, I received an email from Pastor Mark (I know his last name, but I won’t mention it here). Here’s what Pastor Mark had to say:
I have read your stories. I’m not surprised by the way you feel. However, how could you be a minister for over 25 years unless you believed in Jesus Christ? Maybe you never had a true relationship with Him. Maybe you allowed other people, things to come between you and Him. I cannot answer those questions, but you can and you can answer them honestly.
It make me wonder if your family (wife, children, grandchildren, etc) feel the same way you feel about Jesus. One thing I know, Jesus didn’t leave you, you left Jesus.
Pastor Mark wonders how it is possible that I pastored for twenty-five years, but didn’t believe in Jesus. Here’s the thing, I did believe in Jesus. I was a devoted, committed follower of Jesus Christ. My beliefs, practices, and lifestyle testified that I was a child of God. No one, at the time, questioned my relationship with Jesus. It was only after I divorced Jesus that people doubted whether I was a True Christian®.
Pastor Mark wonders if I had a “true” relationship with Jesus. I did. He also wonders if people or things came between me and Jesus. Sorry to burst your bubble, Pastor Mark, but they did not. I left Christianity primarily for intellectual reasons. Pastor Mark would have learned this had he checked out the WHY? page, but alas, much like most Evangelicals, the good pastor showed little, if any, curiosity about my story.
Pastor Mark asks me to answer his questions “honestly.” Have I been anything other than honest? Seventeen years, over 4,000 posts on this iteration of my blog, and people are still questioning my honesty. What more do I need to do? Post nude pics with every article, showing my nakedness before God and my fellow man?
Pastor Mark wonders about my wife, children, and grandchildren. Their stories are theirs to tell, but I can say that none of them is an Evangelical. I can also say they are atheists, humanists, agnostics, nominal Catholics, and generally indifferent towards organized religion. This is, to me anyway, good news. This means the Evangelical curse has been broken.
Pastor Mark is certain that Jesus didn’t leave me, but I left Jesus. First, Jesus is dead, so he couldn’t go anywhere. Second, I didn’t leave Jesus, I left Christianity. It’s Christianity that I reject. Again, check out the WHY? page.
There ya have it, Pastor Mark. All your Bruce Gerencser questions answered. I do, however, have a few questions about you. Are you the . . . Naw, I will leave it there.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recently, I received the following email from a man named Henry:
Bruce, why do you spend so much time worrying about Evilgelicals? They’re living rent free in your head. Don’t waste your time with these losers. Move on. You know it’s all bullshit.
I will assume in my response that Henry is either an atheist or a non-Evangelical Christian. Many first-time or casual readers are unaware of my motivations for writing and why I write the way I do.
First, I am a former Evangelical Christian. I spent fifty years in Evangelicalism, and twenty-five years as a pastor. Evangelicalism is what I know, especially the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement and the Sovereign Grace/Reformed Baptist movements. I am a go-to source for background and comment on these movements. Reporters, news agencies, and authors will contact me from time to time, asking for comments or background information. One reporter who was working on a story about an IFB pastor and his church repeatedly contacted me to get help defining and understanding “IFB lingo” he found unfamiliar or confusing. I am always glad to help. Over the years, I have appeared on numerous podcasts and news interviews, gladly lending my expertise to their programs. Shouldn’t I want to lend my voice to authors, podcasters, and reporters who are doing yeoman’s work in exposing the ugly, dangerous, harmful underbelly of Evangelical Christianity?
Second, I fundamentally believe that Evangelicalism in general and the IFB church movement in particular causes psychological and, at times, physical harm. Evangelicalism is inherently Fundamentalist, and I oppose fundamentalism in all its forms. Fundamentalism is found in every religion and every school of thought. Thus, there are fundamentalist atheists, fundamentalist medical professionals, fundamentalist economists, etc. Fundamentalism is a terminal disease that must be eradicated from our thinking and way of life.
Having experienced firsthand the harm such toxic, dangerous religious sects cause, I am motivated to make sure others are not similarly harmed. As a former insider, a lifelong on-fire, dedicated follower of Jesus, I have a unique perspective to offer readers. My goal is not to convert people to atheism, but to provide readers with information that will help them with their doubts and questions about Christianity. That scores of people have left Evangelicalism due to something I wrote or some other interaction I had with them is a byproduct, not a feature, of my work. Sure, as an atheist and a humanist, I think my worldview and way of life are superior to Christianity. That said, I realize that most people are and will remain religious to some degree or the other. I have done my job if I can help people move away from Evangelicalism to kinder, gentler forms of Christianity. The fact of their deconverting is a bonus.
Third, I don’t only write about Evangelicalism. Sure, that’s my focus, and it always has been. That said, I also write about sports, politics, medicine, and anything else that tickles my fancy. The Black Collar Crime Series has played a part in keeping the spotlight focused on sex crimes committed by Evangelical pastors, evangelists, missionaries, deacons, worship leaders, Sunday school teachers, nursery workers, youth pastors, church bus drivers, summer camp employees, group homes, private school teachers, and college professors. These stories generally fade from public view, but the Black Collar Crime Series keeps the light shining on the despicable acts of so-called men of God and other church leaders.
Fourth, I enjoy writing about religion in general, and Evangelicalism and the IFB church movement in particular. I know what I know, so why not use my knowledge and understanding to help others? I also have a story to tell, so what better place to share it than this blog? While I spend significant time critiquing Evangelicalism, I have never lost sight of my desire to share my story with others. Hopefully, my story will one day be turned into a book. I spent five decades in the Evangelical church, over half that time closely aligned with the IFB church movement. According to many readers, my story is not only entertaining, it is helpful — the voice of an insider, someone who understands the inner workings of Fundamentalist sects and churches.
Henry and I have different views of Evangelicalism. He calls them “Evilgelicals,” a common term used by atheists. For the most part, I do not think Evangelicals are evil. Evil exists among every demographic, but it is unkind, uncharitable, and uninformed to call all Evangelicals evil. Most Evangelicals were raised in the church. It is all they have ever known. This is especially true of the IFB church movement and other sects on the extreme right of the Evangelical tent. Outsiders don’t understand how deeply indoctrination and conditioning affect people; and that it is difficult to break free from cult-like beliefs and practices. I am compassionate and sympathetic towards Christian Fundamentalists, knowing how difficult it is to break free from authoritarian, patriarchal literalism. Screaming at such people, calling them names, or mocking them accomplishes nothing. What better way to reach them than by sharing my “testimony” or politely (but pointedly) challenging their sincerely held beliefs? This may not be everyone’s proverbial cup of tea, but it is mine.
Fifth, I don’t “worry” about Evangelicals. I am indifferent towards religion, in general. Each to their own. I do, however, worry about how certain Evangelical beliefs and practices affect my life and that of my family — especially my grandchildren. Evangelicals are largely Republicans or Libertarians, and almost eighty percent of voting white Evangelicals voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections. Evangelicalism has moved from being a pietistic sect to a political party. THIS worries me. My partner, Polly, and I attended two graduations this week, one for our two preschool grandsons and the other for soon-to-head-to Ohio State University granddaughter number three. While I generally found the graduations boring, I did spend time pondering about what the future might hold for my grandchildren. What awaits on the horizon for them? I worry about how continued Evangelical encroachment into American politics will affect their livelihoods and way of living. None of our sixteen grandchildren is an Evangelical Christian. I worry about them navigating a world where millions of Americans want to force them to conform to certain religious beliefs and practices. I want them to be free to be who and what they are without being condemned for being different. Currently, Lifewise Academy — an Evangelical parachurch organization — has established release time indoctrination programs in 170 Ohio public schools — including four school districts my grandchildren attend. Most of my grandchildren do not attend Lifewise’s classes, but they are often pressured to do so, feeling “bothered” when most of their classmates leave for their Lifewise class while they sit in study hall. I have been working with others to run Lifewise out of schools. Why? Lifewise indoctrinates impressionable children, teaching them all sorts of nonsense, including young earth creationism. Worse, children are directly targeted for evangelization. Internal documents reveal that teachers are to tell students divorce is a sin and that when confronted with a choice between obeying their parents and God (as defined by Lifewise), students should ALWAYS choose to obey God. (“Obeying God” actually means obeying certain Bible verses as interpreted by Lifewise teachers.) Lifewise also promotes Evangelical culture war values, including anti-abortion, anti-sex before marriage, anti-LGBTQ beliefs. What kind of grandfather would I be if I turned a blind eye to these things? I cannot and will not do so.
Sixth, Henry wrongly thinks I spend an inordinate amount of time on Evangelicals. According to him, they live rent-free in my head. This, of course, is laughable. As Carolyn, my editor, will tell you, I typically write posts for this site three or four days a week — rarely on Fridays or weekends. I have pervasive, painful health problems that limit what I can do on any given day. I suffer from fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, gastroparesis, and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. I also have degenerative spine disease. From my neck to my tailbone, I have numerous herniated discs and other structural damage. Despite taking narcotic pain medications and cannabis, I am still left with excruciating pain that never, ever goes away. Over the past two months, the pain in my lower back has gotten so bad that I am unable to walk more than short distances. I am forced to either walk with a cane, use a walker, or a wheelchair. (I fear I will soon be wheelchair-bound full-time. I have an MRI scheduled next week on my lower back. I suspect that the scan will show widespread disc damage. If you want to know how bad things are for me, shoot Polly a message and she will tell you.) These physical realities mean that I typically have three to six hours most days to write and take care of household business. After that, I am done. And I mean d-o-n-e. The rest of my night is spent reading, watching TV, listening to podcasts, or fitfully resting. If I could do more I would, but I have resigned myself to the fact that this is my new normal in life. All the positive thoughts in the world won’t change reality for me. It is what it is.
If my time is focused on anything, it is making it through the day. Writing is a distraction, a pain reducer. When I am focused on writing, my pain lessens. Carolyn can tell you about times when I got in a groove and wrote for hours, forgetting to take my pain meds. I felt okay while writing, but boy, oh boy, when I was done, Mr. Pain said to me, “Hey Buddy, remember me?” Of course, the cure was for me to immediately take my medication in copious amounts, but this is also a reminder that writing does help me physically.
Seventh, I have no intention of “moving on.” I enjoy writing. I enjoy interacting with my friends and acquaintances I have met through this blog. Some of you have been reading my writing for seventeen years. Amazing! And I am grateful for your continued support. I genuinely love and enjoy what I do, so why would I want to move on? My therapist believes that my regular writing schedule helps me emotionally and physically; and that I derive meaning and purpose through my writing and interaction with readers. I have been writing since my twenties. I see no reason to stop now. Subject matter may (and will) change with time, but I find the process enjoyable and fulfilling.
Eighth, I don’t think Evangelicals are “losers.” I was one of them. I understand how and why they believe what they do. I understand how indoctrination and conditioning affect their ability to see the world as it is. Should I just call Evangelicals names and label all of them “losers?” What is accomplished by doing so? I am surrounded locally by Evangelical Christians. What kind of life would I have if I considered my neighbors and local business owners “losers?” I can differ with their beliefs while still treating them with respect. I can do this because I am a decent, thoughtful, kind human being. I want to be treated in the same way I treat others. I make a distinction between garden variety Evangelicals I come in contact with and the apologists and zealots who frequent my blog. Many atheists wrongly assume that people such as Revival Fires, John, Charles, Dr. David Tee, and others are normative; that they represent Evangelicals as a whole. They don’t. While my Evangelical neighbors have beliefs I strongly object to, I don’t oppose them as people. It’s just not in me to do so. When I go to a high school basketball or football game, I want to enjoy the games. That includes interacting with the people sitting near me — many of whom are practicing Christians. I am well-known locally. Most people know I am an atheist and a socialist. They oppose my beliefs, as I do theirs. Some locals read my blog, and thousands of them read my letters to the editor of the newspaper. Yet, we are still able to enjoy one another’s company and have friendly discussions. One way for me to do that is to NOT have discussions with people about religion and politics unless asked. My life is so much more than atheism, humanism, and socialism, so there’s plenty to talk about without getting into heated debates and arguments.
Finally, Henry tells me, “You know it is all bullshit.” I presume he is talking about Evangelicalism or religion in general. The fact that I think all religions are social constructs created by humans to explain the world and provide social connection and cohesion, doesn’t change the fact that what Henry calls “bullshit” materially affects not only me, but my family, friends, and neighbors. Moving on means surrendering the battlefield, and I am unwilling to do so. I still believe a better tomorrow is possible, and for that to happen, bad ideas, beliefs, and worldviews must be challenged. This blog is my feeble attempt to make the world a better place to live.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
According to Matthew 5, Jesus went up to a mountain, gathered his disciples together, and taught them the aforementioned verses, and others. Jesus told his followers that they were the light of the world; a city on a hill that cannot be hid. When someone lights a candle in his home at night, he doesn’t put it under a bushel, concealing its light. He puts the candle in a location where it provides light for everyone in the house. So it is for Christians. They are light on the hill, providing light for all to see. The “light” in this context is their good works; works that glorify God, the Father, which is in Heaven.
Countless Evangelical children are taught the song, This Little Light of Mine. The lyrics state:
This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine, Let it shine, Let it shine.
Hide it under a bushel? No! I’m gonna let it shine Hide it under a bushel? No! I’m gonna let it shine Hide it under a bushel? No! I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine, Let it shine, Let it shine.
Don’t let Satan blow it out, I’m gonna let it shine Don’t let Satan blow it out, I’m gonna let it shine Don’t let Satan blow it out, I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine, Let it shine, Let it shine.
Shine all over Somerset I’m gonna let it shine Shine all over Somerset I’m gonna let it shine Shine all over Somerset I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine, Let it shine, Let it shine.
Let it shine til Jesus comes, I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine til Jesus comes, I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine til Jesus comes, I’m gonna let it shine Let it shine, Let it shine, Let it shine.
Can’t get that song out of your head, can you?
Some Evangelicals who send me emails or leave comments on this blog try to hide the fact that they are Christians, in direct disobedience to the teachings of their Lord, and Savior Jesus Christ. Why would some Evangelicals hide what they are?
Take Anna, who sent me the following several years ago:
What if you are wrong? Then what happens.
Do you believe in right and wrong? Good and bad?
I wrote a post answering Anna’s question. You can read it here.
As is my custom, I sent Anna the link to my response to her questions. What follows is our email “discussion”:
Anna: I never said I was a Christian I just asking a question. You take people’s money for what. Haha your religion sounds as ridiculous as any other.
Bruce: So, you aren’t a Christian? Yeah, that’s what I thought. No non-Christian is going to search for a post on Jeremiah Johnson’s false prophecy. And your questions? I’ve received scores of emails/blog comments asking these very same questions. All from Christians. So, I ask again, are you saying you’re not a Christian?
As far as money is concerned, I don’t “take anyone’s money. No God-mandated tithes or offering, even though I am a God (Bruce Almighty—you might have seen the movie about me). People willingly donate because they like the work I do in helping people see the truth about Evangelical Christianity and the Bible. My “religion” continues to grow, all praise be to Loki.
Anna: Also you said if you were wrong, but “I am not wrong ” was your statement. So you are setting yourself up as a god. Who says you can’t be wrong. Seriously dude you need to get over yourself and maybe become a car salesman. Haha “I’m not wrong” Wow what an ego.
Bruce: You have provided no evidence for the existence of your peculiar version of God. If you have empirical, verifiable evidence for the existence of the Christian deity, I’d love to hear it. I’m quite open to changing my mind about God if you provide persuasive evidence that would warrant such a change. So far, instead of standing up for and defending your God, you hurl insults at me.
I am not wrong about the Christian God because I’ve seen zero evidence for his existence. I can say the same about every extant God. You have all sorts of beliefs you are certain are right. Does that make you God? Or does that make you an informed adult?
As far as getting over myself, how can I? Millions and millions of people worship me and think I’m a loving, benevolent man with supernatural powers (that I only use on December 24 and 25).
Anna, your insults will not work with me. Your fellow Christians have insulted and verbally assaulted me more times than I can count. You are an amateur compared to them.
I do have a 2010 Ford Focus for sale 87K miles, only $3,000.
— end emails —
I was in the Evangelical church for five decades. I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 of those years. I have spent the last seventeen years engaging, interacting with, and responding to Evangelical apologists and critics. I can spot an Evangelical in the dark, at 300 yards, with my eyes closed. Kinda like spotting holiness people or homeschoolers in the store. You just know, right? Yet, Anna refuses to admit that she’s a Christian. Why is that?
Years ago (mid-1980s), I was eating lunch at the Dairy Queen in Somerset, Ohio with Evangelist Gerald Fielder. Fielder was in town holding a revival for me. As evangelists are wont to do, Fielder tried to evangelize the young woman who took our order. Here’s how it went:
Fielder: Ma’am, I’d like a hamburger, order of fries, and a Coke.
Young Woman: Will that be all?
Fielder: That’s it. I would, however, like to ask you a question.
Young Woman: Sure.
Fielder: If you died today, would you go to Heaven?
Bruce thinks to himself: OMG, really?
Young Woman: I am a Christian, but I don’t want to talk about it. (She attended the local Methodist church.)
Fielder: Well, I’ve never met a Christian who didn’t want to talk about it.
The young woman said nothing. It was evident she was thoroughly embarrassed by Fielder’s public interrogation of her. I quickly stepped up, thanked her, and changed the subject. I am sure my behavior irritated Fielder. There he was trolling for souls, and I got in his way.
While Fielder’s approach was certainly offensive, his point was not. Most Christians, especially Evangelicals, want to talk about their faith. They don’t want to be grilled and interrogated as Fielder did with this young woman, but generally Evangelicals love talking about God/Jesus/Christianity/Church/ the Bible. Why is it, then, that Anna refused to admit she was a Christian? Was she ashamed of Jesus? All I did was ask her a question. When she asked me questions — which I have answered numerous times before — I patiently and directly answered them. Why didn’t Anna return the favor?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
It’s been years since I have had an Evangelical Christian ask me a question I haven’t heard and answered before. But, Evangelicals keep asking, so I will keep answering. Perhaps, “in the year 7510 — if God is going to make it, he ought to make it by then” — Evangelicals will discover and use Google search or the search function of this blog. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.) Until then, I will patiently answer their questions.
Today’s interlocutor is a Canadian Evangelical named Anna. Anna read two posts:
Question Number One: What if you are wrong? Then what happens?
Wrong about what, exactly? There’s so many things that I could be right or wrong about, so what is it that Anna thinks I am wrong about? I think I can safely guess the she thinks am I wrong about God/Jesus/Christianity/The Bible/The Reds making the playoffs. And, if I am wrong about Jesus, why I will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire being tortured day and night for my refusal to buy what Christians are selling.
However, I am not wrong. While I am agnostic on the God question — an as-yet-unknown deity could exist and reveal itself someday — I am confident that Christianity and its two sisters, Judaism and Islam, are nothing more than ancient tribal religions that can rationally be ignored. I am also confident that the Protestant Christian Bible is a collection of myths and fables; that Jesus was a mere man who lived and died in Palestine 2,000 years ago; that the central claims of Christianity do not make sense. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
I would ask Anna, what if YOU are wrong? How do you empirically know that the triune Christian deity is the one true God? How do you know the central claims of Christianity are true? How do you know the Bible is an inspired, inerrant, infallible book? What evidence do you have for these claims. Why is Christianity true, and not Islam? Why is Christianity true, and not Buddhism? Why is Christianity true, and not Mormonism? Why is Christianity true, and not Paganism? Why is . . . well, you get my point. Have you thoroughly investigated these other religions?
If anything, Anna should be practicing a new rule I am introducing tonight, “The Edgar Rule.” Edgar was a banker at the financial institution where the church I pastored at the time — Somerset Baptist Church — did business. Edgar was a delightful man to work with, a talker, as was I. The church I pastored did a lot of loan business with Edgar’s bank over the 11 years I pastored the church — from short-term loans to car loans to our mortgage.
One day, I was talking with Edgar about getting a short-term loan. Edgar said:
Bruce, you would be shocked to know how much money some of the local churches have on deposit. I like to loan money to churches, covering all my bases, ya know.
And then, he laughed.
“Covering All Your Bases.” That’s the “Edgar Rule.” You see, shouldn’t this be the default position for those who pose the question, “what if you are wrong?” question. Isn’t in their best interest to be a BaptoCathoPentoMusolBuddo universalist?
Remember, almost every religion believes in Hell, annihilation, or some sort of temporary/permanent punishment for non-believers. Shouldn’t Anne and her fellow Evangelicals fear being wrong and ending up in a different religion’s Hell?
I don’t worry in the least that I am wrong about the Christian God/Jesus. I have weighed this religion and its deity in the balance and found it wanting. I gladly await any new evidence that might be provided to disabuse me of my atheist/humanist beliefs, but so far, all I have received are tire, worn-out, stale, irrational arguments.
Question Number Two: Do You Believe in Right or Wrong? Good and Bad?
Again, Anne’s question lacks specificity, so I am left to guess her meaning. I suspect she wants to know if I believe in Biblical morality? The short answer is no. While the Bible does have some good moral and ethical values, it also has a number of reprehensible and immoral teachings. It is not a book that can be in any way relied upon as an objective, absolute standard of morality. Only those who read the Bible with rose-colored glasses can suggest otherwise.
Do I have moral and ethical beliefs? Yes. Four beliefs come to mind:
Love your fellow man
Do good to others
Stand up for the weak, powerless, and disenfranchised
Don’t be an asshole
I believe it is morally wrong to murder, rape, molest children, destroy the property of others, vote for Donald Trump, and drink Bud-Light.
I also believe than morality is inherently subjective; that it changes over time; that it is culturally, socially, and religiously influenced.
Further, I have concluded that some of the behaviors considered immoral by Evangelicals, aren’t. For example, I don’t think premarital sex, extramarital sex, homosexuality, transgenderism, divorce, wearing polyester shirts, eating shrimp, women wearing pants, men wearing skirts, long hair on men, short hair on women, and eating at Taco Bell — all sins condemned by the Bible — are morally wrong. Well, except eating at Taco Bell. Talk about killing one’s self, one crunchy taco and soft burrito at a time.
Fundamentally, it is humanism that best explains my morality. The Humanist Manifesto III states:
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.
The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.
This document is part of an ongoing effort to manifest in clear and positive terms the conceptual boundaries of Humanism, not what we must believe but a consensus of what we do believe. It is in this sense that we affirm the following:
Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.
Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.
Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.
Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.
Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.
Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.
Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature’s integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.
Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.
I hope my answers adequately answer Anne’s questions. If Anne reads this post — and I will make her aware of its existence — I hope she will practice Matthew 7:7, seek and ye shall find. I have written almost 4,000 posts on this site. I also have a page, Why? that lists numerous posts for people who have questions about my deconversion to read. To quote Fox Mulder:
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Why bother, right? I have spent the past seventeen years asking Evangelical Christian apologists and zealots to give Evangelicals-turned-atheists a fair hearing. I have asked them to accept our stories at face value. Who better knows their story than the person who lived it? When a person tells me that they are a Christian, I believe them. Who am I to say that they are not one? Sadly, Evangelicals refuse to offer the same grace to people such as I and countless other Evangelicals-turned-atheists.
Today, an Evangelical apologist going by the name Charles — today anyway, since he has used other names in the past, trying to evade moderation — left the following comment on the post How to Witness to an Atheist (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
Sorry to offend but most atheists were “intellectual Christians” before they “deconverted”. They likely never truly accepted the gift of God through Jesus Christ. Because once someone experiences the light of Christ they’re not going to run back into darkness.
Yes Bruce is a extremely rare bird. And actually reminds me of another pastor. Sam Kinison. If you don’t know who that is. He was a hellfire and brimstone holiness Pentecostal preacher in the 70’s sadly left the ministry in the 80’s and became one of the biggest foul nasty mouthed comedians of the 80’s and beginning of the 90’s. I’ve never read anything where he advertised to have become an atheist but it was kinda obvious as he would make fun of Christianity in his comedy act.
And he would also do his comic routine the same way he used to preach Pentecostal sermons. With the loud yelling speaking in tongues style.
Sam kinision was killed in an auto wreck in 1992 and witnesses said he was talking to someone they couldn’t see or hear that assured him of something and he died peacefully. So if that’s true he was still saved.
Salvation is a gift and Christ will not take back a gift if it has been truly received. I hope it’s the same for Bruce as it was for Sam and that he was truly saved.
Charles begins his comment by saying “sorry to offend.” This, of course, is what someone says when he is going say something offensive to someone or a group of people. Charles isn’t “sorry” at all. Had he been, he never would have written his comment. No, Charles had every intention of offending. He wants, dare I say, needs, his words to cause harm.
How does Charles know that “most atheists were intellectual Christians before they deconverted?” No study I am aware of affirms this claim, so I suspect that Charles knows this because it “feels” right to him. Charles is claiming that most Evangelicals-turned-atheists were never “real” Christians; that they had head knowledge of Christ, not heart knowledge. (Please see Missing Heaven by Eighteen Inches.) How he determines the difference between heart and head knowledge, Charles does not say. Wouldn’t determining one’s locus of faith be God’s purview, and not that of fallible, sinful men? Yet, Charles, as all Fundamentalist Christians do, speaks with certainty on my former Christian life and that of thousands of people who read this blog. He KNOWS they are “intellectual Christians” because if they weren’t they would still be Christians. This is, of course, circular reasoning, much like Charles’ logic “The Bible is the Word of God because the Bible says it’s the Word of God.”
Charles tries to deflect criticism by saying that “[The Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser] is an extremely rare bird.” Charles can’t find fault with my past beliefs, practices, and lifestyle, so he must grudgingly admit that I really was a born-again child of God. Not only does Charles think I used to be a Christian, he believes I still am. That’s right, outspoken atheist Bruce Gerencser is a Christian! Nah, nah, nah, once-saved-always-saved. Once you say the sinner’s prayer — and you really, really, meant it — you can never lose your salvation. No matter what I say or do, when I die I will go to Heaven. Sweet, right? Hell no. Why would I ever want to spend eternity with the likes of Dr. David Tee, Revival Fires, John, Steve, Charles, and a cast of thousands? No thanks.
For some reason, Charles decided to use the late Sam Kinison as some sort of object lesson. According to a story for which I could find no primary evidence, Kinison was seen muttering to “someone” before he died, and then he peacefully expired. This, according to Charles, is proof that Kinison died a believer.
Let me conclude that some Evangelicals would consider Charles’ soteriology heretical. I know I would have back in my preaching days. Charles’ gospel is what I was taught as a child and as a student at Midwestern Baptist College. I preached a similar gospel for years until I came to see that I was preaching a bastardized gospel; that faith without works is dead. For Charles to even suggest that I am presently a Christian is absurd. That Charles can’t square his theology with my life is his problem, not nine. This I know is true: I once was saved, and now I’m not.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, an Evangelical man by the name of Roger Smoak left the following comment on Why I Hate Jesus, the most widely read (and misunderstood) post on this site:
I would be interested in knowing what Really happened? Was it your fibromalga that wasn’t healed? Was it your oldest daughter with cystic fibrosis? Was it your dad dying at an early age or you mom who committed suicide? Was it depression you faced when you quit believing and/or your wife (pastor’s child) had to choose between you and her faith? Was it all the material wealth you experienced during your pastoring where you saw pastors who appeared to worship money instead of God? If the “Western Jesus” has destroyed your belief why can’t you believe in the Jesus of the New Testament? Every day you preached did you question is this was all a farce? What happened when you finally turned agnostic and publicly proclaimed this? Were you pastoring a church? I guess just as you judge others I would like to hear from yourself, church members, family, or someone who could shed some true light on what really happened to you.
When I receive comments such as this — and I have received hundreds of them over the past thirteen years — the first thing I do is look at the site logs to see exactly what the commenter has read.
That’s it. Right next to the Why I Hate Jesus page is a page titled WHY? On this page is a plethora of posts that curious readers can read, and in doing so, find most of their questions about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism answered. Evidently, Roger didn’t see this page or couldn’t be bothered to look at its content.
Evangelicals tend not to be very curious, that is, unless they are surfing YouPorn. Then they are quite interested in every aspect of female and male bodies. But actually reading about and investigating the life of an Evangelical pastor turned atheist? Nah, how much information does one need to judge a man the Bible says is a fool, a follower of Satan.
Why is it that so many Evangelicals have no desire to be curious? Yes, I know many are, so don’t get your panties in a bunch if you are a curiouser-than-a-cat Evangelical, but many aren’t. I frequently get emails or blog comments from Evangelical Christians wanting to “help” me find my way to Jesus. Such people are certain that they possess the requisite knowledge and skill to win me to Jesus. They are sure that if they just befriend me, quote the right verses, soothe my hurts, or understand my pain, I will fall on my knees and fellate their God.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five of those years. I have a Bible college education. Surely they understand that I am not an atheist out of ignorance? Of course not, and here is where their lack of curiosity gets them in trouble. They often don’t know anything about me or this blog. Why? Because they did a Google/Bing/Yahoo search for _________________ and their search brought them to a single blog post of mine. (Or the past 90 days, 64,000+ first-time visitors have come to this site via a search engine — mostly Google.) These searchers read that one post and immediately conclude that I am a poor wayfaring waif in need of their peculiar flavor of Jesus.
When I get comments such as these, I go to the logs and see what pages they read. Usually, they have only read the pages their search brought them to. Their lack of curiosity (or laziness) is astounding, leading them to make wild judgments about me, and come to rash, ill-informed conclusions. If they would just read the About page and the WHY page they would be better informed about me and this blog. How hard can it be, right?
I suspect part of the reason Evangelicals are not, in general, known for their curiosity, is because they are one-hundred percent certain that they are absolutely right. In their minds, they worship the one, true God and this God lives inside of them. This God walks with them, talks with them, and tells them that they are his own. They have a supernatural book given to them by this supernatural God. This book contains all the answers about life they will ever need. Why should they read anything else?
When you are certain, there’s no need to think, reason, investigate, question, or doubt. When the triune God is on your team, no need to consider any other team. When your God/sect/church/pastor has declared that strawberry ice cream is the one true ice cream, no need to try Rocky Road, Mint Chocolate Chip, or any other flavor.
Simply put, Evangelicals feel no need to know anything else, when you already know all you need to know. God said it and that settled it. One true God, one true religious text, one way of salvation. The earth is 6,027 years old, created in six literal twenty-four-hour days. The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible blueprint for Christ-honoring families, happy marriages, obedient children, and great sex. When the answer to every question is God, it’s not surprising to find that Evangelicals are not curious.
The good news is that more and more Evangelicals are discovering the curiosity that lies dormant beneath the surface of their lives. Once they make this discovery, they are on their way out of the closed-minded, senses-dulling prison of Evangelicalism. They will find that science can and does explain the world they live in. Science doesn’t have all the answers, but it is asking the right questions.
Still want/need to believe in a transcendent deity or some sort of spirituality? Once free of the heaven/hell, saved/lost, in/out, good/bad paradigm of Evangelicalism, people are free to wander at will. When the fear of hell and judgment are gone, they are free to experience those things that are meaningful to them. Once the question is no longer will you go to heaven when you die, the journey rather than the destination becomes what matters.
Curiosity may kill the cat, but trust me Evangelicals, it won’t kill you.
Now let me circle back around to Roger’s comment.
From the get-go, Roger says that he thinks I am lying or withholding information. He wants to know what REALLY happened to me. Well, shit, Roger, this blog is titled, The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser. This is a clue that says, HEY ROGER, THIS BLOG IS ABOUT THE LIFE OF EVANGELICAL PASTOR-TURNED-ATHEIST BRUCE GERENCSER!
Most readers would say that I am open, honest, and transparent about my past and present life. I have been willing to write about things that are painful and embarrassing to me. I have never wanted to paint a less-than-honest picture of my life. I watched too many preachers do just that back in my preaching days, and I see it going on still today. Sometimes, I want to scream to them, TELL THE FUCKING TRUTH! Alas, Evangelicalism is built on a foundation of truth avoidance; a culture that values name, reputation, and prestige more than honesty and truth.
Roger goes through a greatest hits list of reasons he thinks may be the reason I left the ministry and later left Christianity (grammar corrected for readability):
Was it your fibromyalgia that wasn’t healed?
Was it your oldest daughter with cystic fibrosis?
Was it your dad dying at an early age?
Was it your mom committing suicide?
Was it the depression you faced when you quit believing?
Was it your wife — pastor’s child — having to choose between you and her faith?
Was it your lack of material wealth you experienced during your pastoring, especially when you saw pastors who appeared to worship money instead of God?
Let me call Roger’s statements the Seven Was-Its.
Was-It Number One: Was it your fibromyalgia that wasn’t healed?
I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1996 — 12 years before I walked away from Christianity. During my career as a pastor, I battled chronic bronchitis, had bacterial pneumonia twice, had pleurisy several times, contracted mononucleosis — which almost killed me — and was treated for a plethora of joint and muscle problems. Not one time did I question God. I accepted being sick as God’s perfect plan for my life.
Was-It Number Two: Was it your oldest daughter with cystic fibrosis?
Actually, my oldest daughter has Down syndrome. When Bethany was born thirty-five years ago, my wife and I viewed her as a gift from God. We never questioned God blessing us with Bethany. Bethany having Down syndrome played no part in my deconversion.
Was-It Number Three: Was it your dad dying at an early age?
A curious reader would have found out that my dad and I weren’t close. We didn’t have an adversarial relationship, but we were definitely not close. I was outside the church raking leaves when Polly told me Dad was dead. We hugged, and I went back raking leaves. While I now miss my dad, his death played no part in my deconversion.
Two years ago, I had my DNA tested. I learned what I have long suspected — that Dad was not my biological father. I found that my father was a truck driver who lived in Chicago at the time. He likely met my seventeen-year-old mom while she was working at The Hub, a now-defunct truck stop in Bryan, Ohio. I have half-brothers and sisters in Michigan. Talk about messing up your ancestry tree.
Was-It Number Four: Was it your mom committing suicide?
Mom and I were close. Her suicide at age fifty-four deeply affected me. I so wish she were here today so she could play grandma to our grandchildren. (Please see Barbara.) That said, Mom’s death played no part in my loss of faith. My life with Mom certainly affected me in more ways than I can count, but not when it came to walking away from Christianity.
Was-It Number Five: Was it the depression you faced when you quit believing?
This one is almost funny. I have battled depression most of my adult life — from my early 20s. Thus, depression was the dark passenger of my life from the time I pastored my first church until today. The difference back then is that I buried my depression under a mountain of lies, prayers, and Bible verses. After I left Christianity, I sought out a secular psychologist to talk to. It was only then that I began to unwind the complexities and traumas of my life. I still battle depression today. It ain’t going away. My mental health goal is to keep from falling into the rabbit hole and having suicidal thoughts. Sometimes, I fail.
Was-It Number Six: Was it your wife — a pastor’s child — having to choose between you and her faith?
Now, this one is downright funny — and stupid. Yes, Polly is the daughter of a retired Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor. Her parents attended the Newark Baptist Temple in Heath, Ohio for over four decades. They both died in recent years. That said, Polly has never had to make a choice between her “faith” and her husband of forty-six years. I never sensed that she struggled with choosing between me and God. Sure, we left Christianity together, but that’s where the similarities end. Each of us has our own reasons for deconverting. One thing is certain, if I ever said I was planning to re-enter the ministry or start attending an Evangelical church again, Polly would likely divorce me or kill me with one of her Lodge cast iron pans. Trust me on this one, my wife has zero interest in Christianity. In many ways, her feelings about the past are much stronger than mine. The only difference is that Polly doesn’t write about her feelings on a blog that is read by thousands of people.
Was-It Number Seven: Was it your lack of material wealth you experienced during your pastoring, especially when you saw pastors who appeared to worship money instead of God?
Seven strikes and you are out, Roger. For most of my ministry, I believed that living in poverty was God’s chosen path for me and my family. A good case can be made from the Bible that materialism and wealth are contrary to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. While I prayed for material blessing, I never questioned God’s provision. I worked my ass off, and let God take care of the details.
Roger goes on to ask, “if the ‘Western Jesus’ has destroyed your belief why can’t you believe in the Jesus of the New Testament?”
These are the kind of questions that make me want to scream. Roger evidently has never read a Christian history book. He thinks that his brand of Christianity is that of Jesus, the Apostles, and the first-century church, when it is, in fact, every bit as Westernized as mine was in my preaching days. In fact, I suspect if Roger had met me back in the day, he would have loved my preaching and teaching.
By not being curious, Roger misunderstands the chronology of my life. Roger writes:
Every day you preached did you question is this was all a farce? What happened when you finally turned agnostic and publicly proclaimed this? Were you pastoring a church?
I pastored my last church in 2003 and left the ministry in 2005 — three years before my deconversion in November 2008. I still did some preaching, but I no longer was interested in the dog-and-pony show called the ministry. In 2005 — as a last fling of sorts — I candidated at several Southern Baptist churches in West Virginia. It became clear to me that my heart was no longer in the ministry, and neither was Polly’s. We spent the next three years trying to find a church we could call home. (Please see But Our Church is DIFFERENT! for a list of the churches we visited.) In the end, we concluded, that despite the names above the doors, churches are all pretty much the same.
Roger concludes his comment by saying:
I guess just as you judge others, I would like to hear from yourself, church members, family, or someone who could shed some true light on what really happened to you.
This brings me around to the fact that Roger thinks I am lying about my past and present life. He wants to “judge” my life, and determine for himself the “real” reasons I left the ministry and later left Christianity. Roger would love to interrogate my wife and children or “someone” — whoever the hell that is — who would confirm the “real” reasons I am no longer an Evangelical pastor. Something tells me that Roger thinks he already knows the “truth” about my life. He just needs someone to authenticate and confirm his judgments.
I have decided to be brutally open and honest with Roger. I sincerely — in the name of Loki –want him to know the truth about me.
Roger, I never was a Christian. The joke is on the thousands of people I pastored. I was a deceiver, a false prophet, a destroyer of souls. I spent most of my adult life living a lie, pretending to be a follower of Jesus just so I could work 60-80 hours a week, earn $12,000 a year, live off of food stamps, drive $300 cars, and raise six children in a 12′ by 60′ foot mobile home. Instead of accepting secular employment that paid fabulously well, I chose the aforementioned lifestyle all because I wanted to be a wolf among sheep.
I know you really want to know about the sex stuff. You got me, Roger. I fathered several children with female congregants. I also had gay relationships with several deacons. Not only that, I also was a porn addict, frequented houses of prostitution, and attended all-male revues at the local strip club.
I spent five years teaching church children without pay at our Christian Academy. I taught them the Bible and the doctrines of historic Christianity. Why? I was a deceiver, an apostate.
Today, I am a crossdressing worshiper of Satan. Every Halloween, I sacrifice Christian infants to Lord Lucifer. I spend every waking hour trying to destroy God. I hate him, as I do all Christian churches and pastors.
This, I suspect, is more akin to Roger’s narrative of my life than reality. Why read, investigate, ask questions, and attempt to understand when you can read a couple of pages and render infallible, self-righteous judgment?
Let me leave Roger with a verse from the Bible he says he believes. Proverbs 18:13 says:
New International Version To answer before listening– that is folly and shame.
New Living Translation Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.
English Standard Version If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
New American Standard Bible He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.
New King James Version He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him.
King James Bible He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Christian Standard Bible The one who gives an answer before he listens–this is foolishness and disgrace for him.
Contemporary English Version (my favorite) It’s stupid and embarrassing to give an answer before you listen.
Good News Translation Listen before you answer. If you don’t, you are being stupid and insulting.
Holman Christian Standard Bible The one who gives an answer before he listens– this is foolishness and disgrace for him.
New American Standard 1977 He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.
American Standard Version He that giveth answer before he heareth, It is folly and shame unto him.
Douay-Rheims Bible He that answereth before he heareth sheweth himself to be a fool, and worthy of confusion.
Thus saith the Lord.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Bruce Gerencser, age 25, Ordination 1983, Emmanuel Baptist Church Buckeye Lake, Ohio. Terry is the dark-haired boy on the right
Several days ago, I received a Facebook Messenger message from a former church member named Terry. Terry was a teenager and young adult in two churches I pastored: Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio, and Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio. You can read my response to Terry’s message here.
I thought my post was thoughtful and polite, cognizant of the friendship and professional relationship I had in the 1980s. I tried to focus on our shared experiences instead of giving Terry what is humorously called “The Bruce Gerencser Treatment®. Had I viewed Terry as just another Bible-thumping, filled-with-certainty Fundamentalist Christian, I would have just said “sigh” (please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”) or told him to fuck off. But, I value our past shared experiences and friendship we once had, so I decided to respond in a way that would hopefully encourage engagement and, perhaps, show Terry that he might want to rethink what he wrote to me.
Terry would have none of that. Looking at his profile revealed that he has, at least recently, been attending Full Armor of God Baptist Church in Pataskala — a King James-only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) congregation. Whether Terry regularly attends this church, I do not know. That said, I felt bad when I saw Terry was attending an IFB church, having moved very little theologically or spiritually since his days as a teenager at Emmanuel Baptist Church. Certainly, he is free to worship and believe as he wants. Freedom of religion, right? But, where Terry attends church and who his pastor is might explain his abrasive and hostile response towards me. Or, he just may be an asshole, regardless of his religious background. I haven’t spoken to Terry since the late 80s, so I don’t know what kind of man, husband, father, and grandfather he has become.
Bruce Gerencser Ordination, Emmanuel Baptist Church, Buckeye Lake, Ohio April 2, 1983
What follows is my response to Terry. I doubt I will make any headway with him, but I hope I can educate him about atheism and pushback on some of the false claims he makes.
So what it boils down to is you believe now that nothing created everything. That’s comical. I suppose we came ashore out of the water with gills and a tail and later shed those for lungs and two legs and feet.
Do you have a science education? What do you really know about evolution, archeology, cosmology, and other science disciplines? I am the first to admit that I don’t know a lot about science. Much like you, religion neutered my thinking about science, wrongly teaching me that the Bible is a science textbook — that whatever the Bible says about science is true. Over the years, I have worked hard to fix my ignorance, but I still don’t know much about science.
I do know this much: the universe is not 6, 027 years old; the universe was not created in six literal twenty-four hour days; humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time; the earth was not destroyed by a universal flood. These are scientific facts, as any cursory reading of biology, archeology, geology, and cosmology shows.
Terry, what science books have you read over the past forty years? Not religious books or books written by Evangelical apologists — actual books by experts in their relevant fields? Or is your entire understanding of the universe based on what some unknown authors wrote centuries ago before science was even a thing; or it is based solely on what a non-science-educated preacher (such as the Bruce Gerencser of yesteryear) told you from the pulpit? Regardless, I find your certainty troubling; that you are willing to believe things that you haven’t studied or know anything about.
Evolution is a scientific fact. It best explains the existence of our biological world. Evolution and other science disciplines take us back to the Big Bang, 13.8 billion years ago. The question, of course, is what happened before the Big Bang. None of us knows. There are numerous theories about what happened, but young (or old) earth creationism is not one of them. Creationism is religious dogma, not science.
Let me encourage you to read Why Evolution is True, by Dr. Jerry Coyne. Written at a popular level, I think you will find Dr. Coyne’s book to be an excellent primer and explanation of evolution. If you truly want to discuss evolution and creationism, I’m game. More than a few of the readers of this blog have university-level science backgrounds. I am sure they would love to have a friendly, thoughtful discussion with you about these issues.
You bring up creating something out of nothing, a common creationist canard. Keep in mind, you face the same problem: where did God come from? If everything requires a creator, so does God — your God, or any other deity, for that matter. The fact remains that none of us knows for certain what happened before the Big Bang. I am content to say, “I don’t know.” I am more focused on the present, the here and now. The only time I talk about the subject is when Evangelicals such as yourself ignorantly think that atheism and evolution are one and the same.
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
As you can see, atheism is “an absence of belief in the existence of deities.” That’s it. The origin of the universe has nothing to do with atheism. Sure, most atheists also believe evolution best explains our biological world, but this belief is not a requirement to be an atheist. Atheists can and do have all sorts of beliefs. Some atheists are right-wing Republicans, believe in conspiracy theories, and are every bit as tribalistic as Fundamentalist Christians.
I love how you bash me on your blog and bash the community where I live and all your cronies chime right in.
Terry, I am perplexed by how butt-hurt you are. Did you expect me to just say nothing or to fall on my face in repentance and tears, and say, Terry, you are right. I found your Bible verse memes so convicting that I unfriended you. That’s not going to happen. If you didn’t want a response from me, you shouldn’t have messaged me.
I can’t find any place in my post where I bashed you as a person. In fact, I went out of my way to be friendly and polite, valuing our past relationship and experiences. As far as what I wrote about Buckeye Lake, what did I say that was factually incorrect? In the 1980s and 1990s, the village of Buckeye Lake proper (not North Bank or other lake edge communities where upper-middle-class, rich people live) was rife with poverty and rundown properties — mostly rentals, some of which were owned by slumlords. Most housing was converted cottages — 900-1,200 square feet in size. The poverty rate was high, with a sizeable percentage of residents on public assistance.
You seem to forget that I worked for the village of Buckeye Lake for three years as a grant administrator, workfare program manager, and building code enforcement officer. I administrated federal and state grants that were used for litter control enforcement and property rehabilitation and remediation. During my time at Buckeye Lake, my workers razed over fifty abandoned, shuttered cottages, the start of the community renewal that took place afterward.
I also oversaw the village’s workfare and court-offender work programs. Over 100 people worked for me every month, picking up roadside trash, reclaiming illegal dumping grounds, and tearing down abandoned houses. I am quite proud of what we did to make Buckeye Lake a better place to live.
Cronies: a close friend. Synonyns: brother, buddy, chum, pal, sidekick. I didn’t read any overtly harsh criticism of you from my “cronies.” Maybe the real issue is that your Fundamentalist butt cheeks are chapped or you expected to be able to preach AT me without any pushback or challenge. Regardless, how about we try to have an adult conversation, Terry. Have questions? Ask away. Want to politely challenge my beliefs? Please do so. Or you can keep rubbing Vasoline on your ass.
As far as asking you questions about your family you never gave me an opportunity to ask you anything before unfriending me.
Terry, I pared down my Facebook Friends list more two years ago, so we were “friends” before that. You had plenty of time to ask me questions before that, but you chose not to. That’s not my problem. I chose to have a small friend list of people who actually regularly interact with me. Neither of us interacted with the other, so that’s the reason I unfriended you. I am sorry that my doing so offended you in some way.
Here’s your chance now: ask me whatever you want. I will gladly answer whatever questions you might have. But, if all you want to do is preach at me, I have no interest in further engagement with you. Life is too short to involve myself in banal, fruitless discussions. Honest, sincere questions are always welcome. If that is what you want, I am game. Ask away and I will do the best I can to answer your questions.
You say you don’t remember if we were friends on Facebook or not but you can remember me as a friend from many years ago funny isn’t.
In other words, you are calling me a liar. Evidently, you must value Facebook or get some sort of existential importance from it, but I don’t. The ONLY reason I have a Facebook account is for my blog. Some readers prefer to read my blog on Facebook, so I oblige them. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have a Facebook account. As it is, I rarely post on my Facebook wall, and when I do I post articles and photos about family and cats. I reserve discussions about religion and politics for my Facebook business page or my blog. My friends list is reserved for people I regularly interact with, be they family, friends, or blog readers. I could have thousands of Facebook friends overnight if I chose to have them, but I don’t.
As far as my memory is concerned, your accusation reveals that you know nothing about me. If we were actually friends or you were a blog reader, you would have known that I have serious health problems; that I have gastroparesis and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) — incurable stomach/bowel diseases. I also have fibromyalgia — a disease that affects muscles and nerves — osteoporosis, and degenerative spine disease:
Disc herniation (T7,T8)
Disc herniation (T6,T7)
Central spinal canal stenosis (T9/T10, T10/T11)
Foraminal stenosis (T5,T6)
Disc degeneration/spondylosis (T1/T2 through T10/T11)
Facet Arthropathy throughout the spine, particularly at T2/T3, T3/T4, T5/T6, and T7/T8 through the T12/L1 levels.
Hypertrophic arthropathy at T9/T10
I live with constant, unrelenting, debilitating pain, from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I am nauseous all the time, and vomiting is common. Throw in diabetes and high blood pressure, and, well, I have plenty on my plate physically.
Because of my pain (which I take multiple medications to control), I typically sleep in 1-2 hour segments. I am fatigued and tired every moment of every day of my life. As a result, my short term memory is not what it used to be. Besides, I am almost sixty-seven years old. Memory issues are common. I tend to have a sharp memory when it comes to things that happened years ago, but not with current or recent events. Just ask Polly. She will tell you everything you need to know about my memory issues. Or you can just keep calling me a liar.
There’s nothing “funny” about your response to me. I find it sad that you would choose to treat me this way, especially since, as far as I know, I did nothing but befriend and help you. Perhaps your religion is getting in the way of you being a decent human being. Ponder all the ways you could have responded to me, yet you chose to be judgmental and argumentative. Your choice, but I am not sure what you hoped to gain. You have burnt whatever relationship we once had to the ground, and for what? To prove to yourself that you are “right?” To put me in my place? To put a good word in for Jesus? If so, this means you aren’t interested in fostering a renewed friendship with me; you just wanted to score points in the Christian vs. Atheist game.
You knew we were friends on Facebook but you unfriended me because of my love for a risen savior who is sitting on the right hand of God. One day you will bow before him and tell yourself how big of fool you really are.
Again, you are calling me a liar. You have no evidence for your claim, yet you continue to make it. Why is that? I told you the truth. You can accept it, or not. I don’t give a shit either way. You and I are no longer friends, and you seem to want to attack my character, so I hope you will forgive me for not wanting anything to do with you. If and when you can be a decent human being, let me know, and I will be glad to interact with you. I am NOT the enemy, your enemy, or anyone else’s enemy. I am a man you once knew that has different religious (and political) beliefs from you. Is this how you treat everyone you disagree with? Or perhaps my story bothers you, and instead of trying to understand it, you lash out in angry disrespect. Rage away, Terry, but I will not engage you further.
Thousands of people read my blog every day, and some of them are Christians. I am also friends with Christians on Facebook. I am confident that what I believe is true; that the Bible is not inerrant and infallible; that the central claims of Christianity are false; that Jesus was not divine; that Jesus was not a miracle worker; that Jesus was not born of a virgin or resurrected from the dead; that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish preacher who was executed by the Roman government for crimes against the state, end of story.
I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring churches in Ohio, Michigan, and Texas, before leaving the ministry in 2005 and deconverting in 2008. All told, I preached over 4,000 sermons and spent 20,000+ hours reading and studying the Bible. I know the B-i-b-l-e inside and out. That you think a Bible verse meme would convict me in some way or cause me to unfriend you is ludicrous. The Internet is awash in memes posted by Evangelical zealots. Check out my Facebook business page (and click follow) if you want to see my mockery of them. I don’t make fun of them out of fear. I mock them because they are silly, often ignorant, and more often than not promote heterodox or heretical beliefs. If you want to have a serious discussion with me, Terry, I am more than willing to do so. I will gladly answer any question or challenge you might have. However, if all you want to do is cast stones and call me a liar, I hope you will understand if I tell you to go fornicate with yourself.
I wish you well, Terry. I shall always remember (I hope) the good times you and I shared. I can see beyond your rigid Fundamentalist beliefs, choosing to focus on the wonderful experiences we once had. If you can’t or won’t do that, that’s on you.
Bruce
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Over the past seventeen years, I have received thousands of emails, phone calls, text messages, social media messages, and snail mail letters from (primarily) Evangelical Christians. When I first started blogging in 2007, I decided to use my real name and make myself available to anyone who wanted to contact me. I have, on occasion, regretted doing so.
The majority of the emails and messages I receive are hostile, violent, and argumentative. Laden with personal attacks, these contacts are meant to judge, correct, belittle me, or put me in my place. Seventeen years of such emails and messages have left me largely immune to such ill-bred, brutish behavior. I read every email I receive, answering them as I can. (Currently, I am three months behind on answering emails.) I pay close attention to emails from family, friends, former parishioners, and regular readers of this blog. I feel a sense of obligation to these folks, so I try to prioritize their correspondence.
Some emails and messages warrant a public response, as I will give with the message I received today. The following Facebook Messenger message came from a man who was a teen and young adult in two different churches I pastored: Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio (1981-1983), and Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio (1983-1994).
I am generally polite and patient in my responses to former church members. I am well aware of how my story and deconversion trouble and upset people who once called me “Preacher” or “Pastor Bruce.” They know me from a time and place long ago that is very different from where I am today. Not morally or ethically; not personality-wise. I was twenty-four years old when I met Terry; now I am almost sixty-seven. Lots of water under, over, and around the metaphorical bridge, but to a large degree I am the same person today as I was forty-plus years ago. I am a kind, decent, and thoughtful man. Not perfect. I can be temperamental, argumentative, and opinionated, but I have become less so, telling Polly, my partner, the other day, in a moment of deep, dark depression, that most of the things I obsess over or that aggravate me really don’t matter. The danger, of course, for depressives, is “nothing matters” can quickly turn into suicide. That, so far, has not been the case for me, but I do recognize that not much matters beyond the people we love.
In the early days of this blog, I took to heart the nasty, hateful things Evangelicals said to me. Their words caused deep wounds, so much so that I would stop blogging. I would delete my social media accounts and even change my email address so people couldn’t contact me. Thanks to extensive and ongoing therapy, I have (most of the time) learned to handle such people. I no longer let people such as Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, Elliot, Revival Fires, Silence of Mind, and other caustic, abrasive so-called Christians like them get under my skin. I don’t know them; they don’t know me; their words really don’t matter. They can go fornicate with themselves for all I care. They are little more than pissants, quickly dispatched with little thought or concern. However, when it comes to people with whom I had a significant personal relationship, I try to hear them out and respond accordingly. So it is with Terry, whose message I respond to below.
Here’s what Terry wrote to me (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
Hey Bruce I’m not sure why u unfriended me. I still respect you and love u in Christ. I’m saddened you turned your back on Christianity. You know what Jesus did for us on that cross. Maybe u unfriended me because my bible versus was talking to your heart and the adversary turned u against me. I’m praying for you and Polly. God Bless
Bruce Gerencser, age 25, Ordination 1983, Emmanuel Baptist Church, Buckeye Lake, Ohio. Terry is the dark-haired boy to the right.
Dear Terry,
You and I go way back. I first met you in the early 1980s when you were a sophomore student at Lakewood High School and I was the assistant pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake. My primary responsibility was working with junior high and high school students. I have many fond memories from the three years I spent at the church. As you may remember, the youth department quickly grew, reaching a high attendance of 90 people. The majority of church attendees were youth group participants. Unfortunately, when Polly and I left Emmanuel to start a new church in Somerset, attendance dropped by seventy percent. I always felt bad that this happened, but many of the teens had a close attachment to me. One of the reasons for this is that Polly and I, along with our two young sons and foster son (and later foster daughter) moved to Buckeye Lake to be close to the people we were pastoring. We moved into a ramshackle cottage a few blocks from where you lived at the time. Buckey Lake wasn’t the greatest place to live, but I felt it important to live with and among the people I ministered to. Polly’s mom refused to move from Newark to Buckeye Lake, not wanting to live around poor people or “welfare bums.” (Note for readers: Buckeye Lake, a community of around 3,000 people, was once home to an amusement park. Most of the housing was originally meant for seasonal use, but during WW II, much of it was converted to year-round use. Most of the homes were small, and of poor construction. The poverty rate was quite high compared to the surrounding area.)
You and I spent a lot of time together. You attended church every week, often bringing friends to the services. You were active in the youth group. I have many fond memories of you personally, and the youth group as a whole. I am sure you remember the lock-in we held at the Newark Y. You and your schoolmates worked hard to invite your unchurched friends and acquaintances to the event. If I remember correctly, more than 200 students bought tickets for the lock-in. The bring-your-own-team basketball tournament was the highlight of the night, for me.
So many memories . . . hunting rabbits together, the basketball program I sponsored at Jacktown Elementary School, playing tackle football and softball, attending your baseball games, and trying the best I could to help you navigate life. I performed your wedding ceremony — a double wedding at the Dawes Arboretum pond. After you got married and Polly and I moved on to a new church, you and your family attended Somerset Baptist occasionally, but distance prevented you from being a regular attendee, and eventually, we drifted apart. That said, I always considered you a friend.
I have given you this short history lesson to remind you of all the shared experiences we have. It would have been wonderful to talk with you about these things. I would have loved to hear about your family; your children and grandchildren. It would have been nice if you had asked me how I was doing, or inquired about Polly, our six adult children, or our sixteen grandchildren. Instead, you decided to skip the pleasantries and polite discourse and go on a religious rant, complete with a conspiracy theory about why I unfriended you on Facebook. You could have asked all sorts of questions about my deconversion, but you didn’t. Imagine if we had met face-to-face somewhere in Newark, after not seeing each other in over thirty years. Would you have said these things to me? Of course not. We would have talked about old times, sharing a warm embrace — a reminder of the friendship we once held dear. Evidently, all that matters to you is passing judgment on my life and putting in a word for Jesus.
Concerning Facebook, we may have been “friends,” but I don’t remember it. Two years ago, I pared over a thousand people from my friends list, choosing only to befriend people with whom I had regular interaction. I suspect you were one of many people I unfriended. I assure you that my unfriending you had nothing to do with your content or the fact that you posted Bible verses to your wall. What I find amusing (and oh so sad) is that you think that your posted verses were “talking to my heart,” and that I couldn’t handle the conviction, so I unfriended you. First, I don’t have a heart, and neither do you — at least not the one mentioned in the Bible. Second, why would words from an ancient religious text — one that I know inside and out and have read cover to cover numerous times and spent 20,000+ hours studying — bother me in the least? Third, I am an atheist, so I don’t believe in the existence of gods, including yours. It stands to reason, then, that I also don’t believe in the existence of “the adversary” (Satan). That you think I “turned against you” is silly. Few friendships last a lifetime, ours included. I haven’t talked to you in years, yet, suddenly, your Bible verse memes were used by Satan to turn me against you? Surely, you can see how silly this is. You are trying to judge my motivations when you have no reason or warrant to do so.
Terry, you say you love and respect me, in Christ. All I hear is the tired, worn-out Christian cliches I have heard countless times before. What in your message is loving and respectful? So many things you could have said or asked, but, instead, you chose to preach at me and remind me of what “Jesus did for us on the cross.” Did you think I didn’t know that already, or consider the fact that I don’t believe as you do; that, to me, Jesus is a dead man who lies buried somewhere in an unknown Judean grave?
People change. Beliefs change. I once was a Christian, and now I am not. If you really want to know why I am no longer a Christian, please check out the posts found here. Better yet, ask me. Don’t preach at me or condemn me. Ask . . . Better yet, dwell on the fond memories of yesteryear; of the times spent playing basketball or hunting rabbits; of the times we spent talking about life and the challenges you were facing. So many good things to remember and talk about. Why choose to preach at me about the one thing for which we have no common ground? Did you think your words would convict me of the error of my way or magically bring me back to Jesus? If so, you missed the mark. I am fully persuaded that the central claims of Christianity are untrue. If that means you can’t accept me as a fellow human being, someone who befriended you and always treated you well, so be it. I’m content to remember the times we once had.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Yesterday, I received the following email from an Evangelical woman named Melissa Lord. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original:
I was raised in church, and I had no intentions, whatsoever, to becoming a Christian. However, when I was 25 years old, I did become a Christian and forward saved me. I totally understand you, because I have seen so much hypocrisy in my life, which is why the word of God tells us not to look to man, because who can no the heart because it is desperately wicked. I do not have confidence in men, because I’ve seen too much. However, I will have confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ until the day I die, because, while seeing so much hypocrisy, I have seen, and been friends with witnessed the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, in so many lives.
I read your article regarding Gus Harter. I knew of him, and a People that liked him. I met him, and wasn’t crazy over him from the first time I saw him. I did not see him as a pervert, but I did not feel any godliness from him. Satan knows the bible. Many, so called, creatures also know the Bible, and will get behind a puppet and try to preach, but with no fervency behind it.
I do understand you, but if you know the scripture, you would know “not” to pit confidence in any man. That is where people fall. We are to keep iur eyes on the Lord.
I know you said you left the faith, so maybe you’re an apostate, I don’t know. I can only hope and pray that you come to know the Lord Jesus, for yourself, and for the sake of your family. I know when it comes your time to die, and you will, that you, surely don’t want your children to see you die without the Lord. If you don’t believe, now, you certainly will immediately after death.
I will pray for you, and your children, as I pray for mine.
I sent Lord a link to my response. Instead of commenting or emailing me, Lord messaged me on Facebook:
Message from the Lord #1
Message from the Lord #2
Message from the Lord #3
Message from Bruce Almighty #1
Message from the Lord #4
Message from Bruce Almighty #2
Message from the Lord #5
Lord, of course, wasn’t interested in engaging in conversation as equals. Oh no, God talks to her. She hears voices in her head and reads words written by God in a magic book called the Bible. When she was done preaching, God told her I was evil — a pig — and she was not to contact me further. And with that, Lord blocked me from messaging her. As I stated in my response, the only voice she was listening to was her own.
I have been dealing with the Lords of the world for seventeen years. Armed with certainty, they arrogantly think they are absolutely right. How do they know they are right? God told them. It is impossible to engage people who think like this. Lord doesn’t give a shit about me, my family, or my eternal destiny. I am a complete stranger to her. She knows little to nothing about me other than what she read in a post or two. Yet, she thinks she is more than qualified to render judgment on me as a person.
According to Lord, my two responses to her were “evil.” In what way? I challenged her ignorant, ill-informed belief that Christians don’t molest children. Sure, they do. They rape them, physically abuse them, sexually molest them, starve them, and even murder them. I have published over 1,000 stories in the Black Collar Crime Series. Every story is about a CHRISTIAN — mainly Evangelicals — who committed mostly sex crimes against children, teenagers, and vulnerable adults. Does Lord expect us to believe that none of these criminals was Christian? Child, please. Besides, the Bible records the criminal actions of a man after God’s own heart (David), a righteous man (Lot), and great “godly” leaders such as Moses and Abraham. Does Lord think David, Lot, Moses, and Abraham were unbelievers too?
Christian salvation is not a cure for bad behavior. Christians can, and do, do bad things — awful things. And, yes, Christians can do good things too. The same can also be said for evil pigs like me too. In fact, I suspect I live a better Christian life than most True Christians®. I know lots of “godly” atheists, agnostics, and atheists.
I directly challenged Lord’s belief that Jesus suffered horribly on our behalf. I hoped that she might think a bit about her claim. Did Jesus really suffer more than anyone — ever? Of course not. Sure, he suffered, but it was short-lived. Besides, we don’t know what happened after Jesus gave up the ghost on the cross and, according to Christian orthodoxy, descended into the bowels of the earth to preach and set captives free. Seems more than a party or church service than horrible suffering.
At the end of the day, I feel sorry for Lord. Having once been an Evangelical Christian and pastor, I understand where she is coming from. Her mind is so sotted with Bible nonsense that she cannot fathom being wrong or being anything other than what she is. As a result, as her messages show, her life has become an endless string of Evangelical cliches. Until Lord ponders the fact that she could be wrong — and she is — there is no hope for her. I could press her on any number of theological issues, but to what end? Lord knows what she knows, and no atheist stranger is going to convince her otherwise.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
