Evangelical Email and Comments Archives

Evangelical Man Doesn’t Like Post About American Family Association (AFA), Says Bruce Gerencser is a “Hater”

June 24, 2023 Evangelicalism 11 Comments

An Evangelical man named Will sent me an email today about a post I wrote in 2015 that took a close look at the finances of the American Family Association (AFA). Titled, Follow the Money: The American Family Association and their Support of the Gay Agenda, I took a deep dive into the incomes and expenditures of the AFA. I found that the AFA, a virulently homophobic group, was financially supporting several LGBTQ-friendly United Methodist churches.

According to the site server logs, Will, read the aforementioned post for five minutes before accessing the contact page. Afterward, Will was served the front page of nine posts, but I have no idea if he read any of them. As far as posts about the AFA?? One post — that’s it. Keep that in mind when you read his email. (I sent Will a link to this post. Of course, he used a fake email address.)

Here’s what Will had to say. My response is indented and italicized.

Bruce,

It sounds like you don’t like the folks at AFA from your many derogatory adjectives.
Hmm.

Hmm, indeed. I re-read the eight year old article, looking for what you call “many derogatory adjectives.” You must have a very different definition of “many” from mine. I wrote that the AFA is: anti-abortion, anti-homosexual, anti-same-sex marriage, and anti-secular agenda. These are factual descriptions of the AMA, so I am perplexed as to why you think they are derogatory. If it walks, talks, and acts like a duck, it is a duck, and the AFA is a quacking duck if there ever was one. If you think these descriptions are wrong, please provide evidence for your claim. If not, I will assume you are just making shit up.

As far as “liking” the Wildmons and others who operate the American Family Association, no I don’t like them. I could say the same of any number of Evangelical preachers, churches, and parachurch organizations. I don’t like the St. Louis Cardinals either.

I suspect you are an AFA fanboy. I doubt that you “like” me. We all have likes and dislikes. Or are you one of those Christians who can only see the specks in the eyes of others and not the beam in your own? (Matthew 7:3)

Does that make you a “ good hater?”

I have no idea what you are talking about. Christians such as yourself are commanded to hate, and your deity is well known for his hatred. I, as a lowly, ignorant atheist, don’t hate people. I have no time for hate. I suspect that you, as many of my Evangelical critics, mistake pointed, forceful, direct critique as “hate.” That’s the problem with Evangelicals these days. Many of them are snowflakes, quickly butthurt and offended. If Evangelicals are going to drag their beliefs into the public square, then they should expect pushback. That’s how the Internet works.

You could have responded to my article, challenging my conclusions. Instead, you call me a “hater,” a claim for which you provided no evidence. You could have said all sorts of things to me, including sharing the Word of God with me or witnessing to me. Instead, you come off as yet another butthurt Christian, upset that I dared to talk out of school about the AFA and their money. Again, please point out where my article is factually wrong.

Live and do as you wish, but I’m always amazed at the hypocrisy folks like you express. You claim you’re diverse and honor diversity, but then you go through life attacking people different from you.

Again, you confuse “attack” with critique. If you want to see what “real” attack looks like, please read a few of the plethora of emails I have received from your fellow tribe members. Constant threats of Hell, death threats, attacks on my family, you name it, I have heard it from the followers of the Prince of Peace.

Please provide evidence for your claim that I “go through life attacking people different from me.”

Wow.

Wow, what, exactly? Your response to me is confusing. You read all of one post before contacting me; an investigatory article, not an opinion piece. Maybe I could understand your response if you had made a serious faith effort to read my writing, but you didn’t. Let me share with you a bit of advice from the Bible: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13) I suggest you read the About page and the Why? page. Then you might be ready to judge my character.

Since you live in Ohio I imagine you go driving around and run Amish buggies off the road because they’re different from you.

Surely, Will, you are not this stupid. I have lived near Amish communities for much of my adult life. I pastored in southeast Ohio for eleven years. I had Amish-Mennonite neighbors, and their church was less than two miles away from my home. Our family attended numerous services at their church. I did business with them and had more than a few passionate theological discussions with them. They considered me their English friend.

Today, we live twenty minutes or so from a large Amish community. I admire their hard work agrarian lifestyle, and commitment to family. Yes, they are different from me, but I would never think of running one of their buggies off the road. I am surrounded by Evangelical Christians. I would never run their cars or trucks off the road either.

Bad analogy, Will, bad analogy, but let me run with it for a minute.

The Amish have never harmed me or my family in any way. They have never harmed my friends or acquaintances either. The Amish are the epitome of live and let live.

The AFA and Evangelicals by extension are nothing like the Amish. (Please see New Evangelical Term Used in the War Against Culture: A Canary in the Coal Mine.) Evangelicals are busy waging a zero-sum culture war against LGBTQ people, same-sex marriage, gender-affirming hormone therapy, gender reassignment surgery, abortion, reproductive rights, wokeness, books, birth control, sex education, evolution, socialism, humanism, and atheism. I am not talking about differences of opinion. Will, I wish you had expressed why you disagreed with me. Then, maybe, we could have had a discussion. Evangelicals have one goal in mind: theocracy. In their minds, the United States is a Christian nation (it’s not), and they intend to use the power of the state to establish Jesus as Lord and King and the Bible as the law of the land.

Evangelicalism is not a benign sect. Its teachings and practices have caused psychological and, at times, physical harm. This blog is a testimony to the fact that Evangelicalism can and does cause harm. The office waiting rooms of therapists are filled with clients harmed by Evangelical beliefs and practices. You don’t know this, of course, because the harm has been normalized for you. Until you break free from the bubble, you will never know how damaging life within the bubble really is.

If Evangelicals reach their theocratic goals, freedoms will be lost and people will die. Do you really think Evangelicals have the best interests of LGBTQ people at heart; that they have any intention of practicing “live and let live?” Not a chance.

No sir, you sir are the hater and you make it very publicly clear whom you hate.

I hope you realize by now that your judgment of me is incorrect; that you mistake passion for hate. Here’s a test for you. Please read Why I Hate Jesus. After you do, send me an email answering the question: who or what do I hate? Let’s see if you get it.

Saved by Reason,

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Four Questions About Bruce Gerencser’s Conscience

June 20, 2023 Evangelicalism 6 Comments

Over the weekend, I received an email from a man named Quinn that asked me several questions. Here’s what he had to say:

Hey Bruce, I thought I’d ask about your conscience: Do you still feel conviction? Or does everything just feel numb? No matter where you go or what you do, just no emotion? Even when you hug loved ones?

These questions seem loaded. Is the writer an Evangelical Christian? Does he think I no longer have a conscience now that I am an atheist? Or does he think I have a seared conscience or that I am a reprobate? I could address the absurdity of such claims, but I won’t. Instead, I will focus on the four questions asked by this man.

First, let me define several words:

Consciousness: at its simplest, is awareness of internal and external existence. (Wikipedia)

Conscience: a cognitive process that elicits emotion and rational associations based on an individual’s moral philosophy or value system. (Wikipedia)

Atheism: the absence of belief in the existence of gods. That’s it. Atheism provides no moral or ethical foundation.

Secular Humanism provides me with a moral and ethical foundation by which to govern my life. The Humanist Manifesto describes Humanism this way:

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

This document is part of an ongoing effort to manifest in clear and positive terms the conceptual boundaries of Humanism, not what we must believe but a consensus of what we do believe. It is in this sense that we affirm the following:

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.

Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature’s integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.

Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone. (American Humanist Association)

Simply put, I am a conscious human being with a conscience who is an atheist and a humanist. I strive every day to be a kind, loving, thoughtful, helpful person; one who desires to leave a better world for his progeny.

On the About Page, I answer the question, If you had one piece of advice to give me, what would it be?

You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.

Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.

With these facts entered into evidence, let me now answer the four questions mentioned above.

Do you still feel conviction?

If Quinn is asking whether I feel “conviction” in a Biblical sense, the answer is no. A related (and perhaps more relevant) question is whether I feel guilt, and to that I say yes. I still battle unjustified guilt, a leftover from fifty years in the Evangelical church and twenty-five years as a pastor.

The two pillars of Evangelicalism are fear and guilt. The Evangelical deity is a myth, so I no longer fear him. What I do have is residual guilt from five decades of being told this or that behavior is a sin. After I deconverted, I had to rethink what human behaviors I considered “sin.” (Sin is a religious construct, so I don’t use the term. I speak in terms of good and bad behavior.) Over the past fifteen years, I have constructed a list of human behaviors I think are “bad.” This list is small, much smaller than the War and Peace-sized sin list I had back in my Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) days.

When I cause harm to others, I generally feel guilty. When I feel guilty, I admit my “sin” and try to make restitution. When warranted, I ask for forgiveness, not from God, but from the person I have hurt/offended/harmed. God is an unnecessary middleman.

Yesterday, Polly and I, along with Bethany, and our fifteen-year-old grandson, traveled to Cincinnati to watch the Reds play the Colorado Rockies. It was my sixty-sixth birthday. We had a delightful time. The Reds won, and we got to see Joey Votto play his first game of the year.

For much of our forty-five years of marriage, I did most of the driving, especially when in major cities. I averaged 50,000 miles a year — Polly a couple of thousand. This all changed when Polly started working for Sauder Woodworking in 1996. Today, she drives forty-five miles a day to work and back. As my health continues to decline, Polly has had to do more and more driving. In March, 2020, I stopped driving, knowing that I no longer had the requisite motor skills necessary to safely drive a vehicle.

When we travel to Cincinnati, Toledo, Fort Wayne, Detroit, Columbus, and other major cities, Polly has to do all the driving. She doesn’t want to, but she has no choice. She’s never been comfortable driving in bumper-to-bumper city traffic. Polly lacks that aggressive killer instinct necessary when jockeying for position on busy streets and highways. She’s gotten better, but I can be a nag when she is hesitant or lets people take advantage of her.

Often, Polly and I banter back and forth while she’s driving. Typical old married couple stuff. There are occasions, though, when my criticism crosses a line, and when it does, I feel guilty, knowing Polly is doing the best she can. When I feel guilty, I apologize, promising to keep my mouth shut in the future. Polly graciously accepts my apology, saying to herself, “sure, buddy, sure.” 🙂

Outside of this, there’s nothing I did yesterday that rose to the level of “guilt.” I didn’t do anything yesterday (or today) that I should have felt “conviction” over. I reject the notion that we sin daily in thought, word, and deed. This allows me to live freely without wondering what God thinks, or the Bible says about a given matter.

Or does everything just feel numb?

This question tells me that Quinn is likely an Evangelical Christian. I searched for his name and found someone who is an Evangelical, but I am uncertain as to whether it was him.

The only things that feel numb to me are my legs, feet, and hands, thanks to nerve damage. Believe me, I wish I were numb some days. I live with unrelenting chronic pain — severe pain from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. And after a six-hour car ride to Cincinnati and back yesterday? My whole body is screaming, “Please let me die!”

I suspect Quinn is not talking about physical numbness; but psychological numbness. To that, I say, no. Psychologically, I am very much alive. I involve myself in things that matter to me. I have passions in my life that drive my writing and fuel my involvement in politics and social movements.

I can’t think of a time when I ever felt “numb,” not even when my mother killed herself.

No matter where you go or what you do, just no emotion?

Of course, I have emotions. I am a passionate, emotional man. On Sunday, my six children, their girlfriends and spouses, and my thirteen grandchildren were over to celebrate Father’s Day and my birthday. I had a delightful time. I hugged most of my children and their significant others and all of my grandchildren when they left to go home. I freely express love to my family, though we don’t do the kissing thing. Sorry, that’s a bridge too far. 🙂

Anyone who really knows me knows I am an emotional man. Shit, even passersby who read my writing can discern that I am an emotional, passionate writer. I don’t need Jesus or Christianity to fuel my emotions. No Holy Ghost Crack® is necessary for me! If anything, Evangelicalism stunted my emotions, telling me that certain human passions were “sins.” Now that I have been delivered from the bondage of Egypt, I am free to be my authentic self.

Even when you hug loved ones?

See the answer above.

Saved by Reason.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

IFB Man Shares the “Love” of Jesus With Me, Attacks My Wife, Calling Her Stupid

June 6, 2023 Evangelicalism 15 Comments

Several years ago, I received numerous emails from an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) man too afraid to use his real name and email address. Here’s what he had to say in three of them:

Email number one

Bruce,

You are filth to it’s core:

You have about 50 brainwashed followers. Not the “thousands” that you claim to have. I have read about 50 percent of the content on your website. I also listened to the interview that you gave to the demon on YouTube (congratulations on your (1) thumbs up . Very Sad!

Which brings me to my topic. It would normally be your favorite…yourself! Look into a mirror and behold your idol: You do not really care about anyone other then yourself. I know deep down you’re thinking…he’s right. You never loved the Lord, or anyone else. As a fat, lazy, alt-left, anti-Christian, bigoted grub you “now” embrace socialism! How convenient. You couldn’t wait to send your wife out to work. How convenient. You can’t work because you are depressed. How convenient. You have (6) children and (11) grandchildren, and now you love the slaughter of the unborn (children)! How convenient. You claim that you need to have, all of the “maltreatment” that you have suffered at the hands of The Church “documented”, because you are now writing a book (I hope that it does better than your first big interview)! How convenient. One would need a good measure of “faith” too believe you! How inconvenient!

You know who should be writing a book. All the folks that trusted and PAID you, because they thought that you were representing The LORD Jesus Christ! They are the real victims…you disgusting fat pig! NOT YOU BRUCE! Not you.

Why don’t you write a blog titled “Why I hate Mohammad”??? I think you (we) know why Brucey! Because you are a COWARD! You pick on our counties weakest citizens! You put my IP address out there publicly? Too what end? Then one of your brainwashed, brain dead, sycophants, puts up a map, of a liberal “church” a 100 miles away! You are such a reckless, foolish putz!

I will pray for your family! Their husband, father and grandfather, is a little girl…in a man’s body!

Get on your knees and beg Jesus Christ for Forgiveness! REPENT! Get Baptized! Join a FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN CHURCH! After your conversation (God willing)…beg your family for FORGIVENESS, and for once in your life, get an honest job!

You truly have nothing to lose.

Very Sincerely,
A worm who Christ died for.

Email number two

Bruce,

You are a fat, lazy and pathetic COWARD! I been on your Facebook page, which by the way, is a complete failure, much like your YouTube channel. Why no posts about fundamental Islam? Are you afraid Bruce?Surely a big mouth like yourself, must dislike something about a militant form of their religion???

You like picking on people that you KNOW are peaceful Bruce! Because of you, Christian children are mocked in school Bruce! You send your low I.Q. wife out to work, while pretending to have a photography “business”! Why is this “businesses” website stagnant Bruce? You may fool your dumb wife, but most of your poor family knows who and what you are! This no-show job, gives you plenty of time to write your filth about our counties weakest citizens while stuffing your fat face, ALL DAY–BRUCE!

You think that it is funny…smearing the LORD JESUS CHRIST’s HOLY NAME! I have some advice for you Bruce. I know that you hate advice and correction. You have more rules on your anti-Christian, alt-left, fake news blog, then any church does:

Get down on your face, and BEG the LORD, Jesus Christ for forgiveness! REPENT! Get Baptized! Join a Fundamentalist, Christian church! Tell your wife and family that you DESERVE HELL, and so do they (so do I)! Publicly apologize to the thousands of people that you have HURT !

You truly have nothing to lose!

Very Sincerely,
A worm who Christ died for!

Email number three

You are a disgrace to your country, family and yourself! I know that you hate too hear it but… you were NEVER, EVER, Saved! Your god is your belly!

You are the most selfish person that I never met! You desperately need to really get Saved! Fall down on your face and beg Jesus Christ for Forgiveness! Repent! Get Baptized! Join a Fundamentalist Christian Church! You are a slob, and have been your entire sad life! Get out of the wagon and help the rest of us pull it!

Give back the money that you stole: pretending to be a “pastor”! I Will be praying for you, but your family, really needs the prayers much more! How can you look your children in the face! You are SATANIC for the misery that you have caused them!

Think about it…you truly have nothing to lose!

Very Sincerely,

Just another day among God-loving, sin-hating assholes for Jesus.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

A Christian Man Named Richard Says “It Sucks to Be Bruce Gerencser”

May 31, 2023 Evangelicalism 11 Comments

Over the weekend, an Evangelical (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist?) man named Richard left the following comment on a post titled IFB Church Member Takes Issue With a Post I Wrote about Tony Hutson and Middle Tennessee Baptist Church. All spelling and grammar in the original. My response is indented and italicized.

Local Christian churches are full of those who claim to be Christians but are not. The same goes for churches that claim to be Christian but are not. Many like to follow the man (preacher) & hold him up as an idol.

How could Richard possibly know this? Is he God? Shouldn’t who is and isn’t a Christian be left up to God? Richard, of course, KNOWS that he is a Christian; that his church is a True Christian church, so he uses his personal experiences and his church as the standard by which he judges others. 2 Corinthians 10:12 says: “or we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.” It’s a bad idea to use ourselves as the standard by which we judge others.

You can use the excuse all day this is why you left this church, that or Christianity. If you never possessed the Holy Spirit you never were a Christian in the first place. There is no way Bruce was ever a Christian but if it’s true he was a pastor then he filled those typical fake Christian churches.

Welp, Richard, my boy, I did possess the Holy Ghost. My life gave evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. The arc of my life was towards holiness. I was a true-blue devoted follower of Jesus. That Richard can’t square my present life with my past is his problem, not mine. It is up to Richard to provide evidence for his claims. Talk to my wife and children. Talk to those who called me preacher. Talk to my colleagues in the ministry. I double-dog dare you to find one person who, at the time, said, I wasn’t a Christian.

If Richard is a Christian — and I don’t doubt that he is — so was I. When someone tells me that he is a Christian, I accept his self-identification at face value. I wish zealots such a Richard would do the same. Of course, he won’t. The testimonies of people such as myself are kryptonite to beliefs. Thus, he must, despite evidence to the contrary, maintain I never was a Christian.

He claims to have read the bible numerous times which says nothing. You can read the bible all you want but if you don’t have the Holy Spirit to take you through the Living Word of God then the mysteries will never be revealed and it will just be foolish to you.

Except it wasn’t, and the Holy Spirit did guide me through the Bible as I read it numerous times and preached 4,000 sermons. I spent, on average, 20 hours a week, reading and studying the Bible over the course of twenty-five years in the ministry. Does Richard really expect anyone to believe that I was a fraud; a liar; a deceiver; a false prophet? Even God is shaking his head. 🙂

Most of you have hardened your hearts & God has come in turned you over to that, nothing odd about that, your futures are sealed.

Richard now turns his judgment toward the readers of this blog, not knowing that many of them are Christians. In his addled mind, we are reprobates; people who have hardened hearts; people who cannot be saved (according to Romans 1 and 2).

It is hard not to conclude that Richard is a judgmental prick.

It is this that burns you up inside.

What burns me up inside is hot food. Evidently, Richard has psychic abilities he uses to see inside of us. Amazing, right?

I couldn’t imagine The feeling knowing God & His Holy Spirit abandoned me, of course you’d have to have known Him first to feel that.

So which is it? Did I know God and the Holy Spirit, or didn’t I? Come on, Richard, get it right!

Even though most of you never really have you do feel the guilt of where you are going, this is plainly written in your remarks.

Again, Richard changes his mind. This time, we don’t feel the hunka, hunka, hunka burning love of the Holy Ghost on our innards, but we do feel guilty about “where we are going.” Chicago? Detroit? New York? LA? London?

The only guilt I feel is the over past harm I caused as an Evangelical pastor, husband, and father.

I feel for you but then again I don’t, you clearly denied Him & continue to do so. It honestly sucks to be you

Richard, be honest. You don’t give a shit about me or the readers of this blog. If you did, you would have behaved differently. Instead, you are just the latest example of a judgmental Evangelical who only cares about preaching AT people. Good job. What, exactly, do you think you accomplished for the kingdom of God?

I would love to compare lives with you. I have been married for forty-five years. We have six adult children, thirteen grandchildren, and two cats. While it is true that I am quite sick and on the short side of life, I am blessed beyond measure, grateful for all that I have. And the Reds have won four straight! Woo! Hoo!

What sucks is people like you; people who have lost all sense of decency, kindness, and respect for others. You said your piece, Richard. I am sure God is pleased by how you represented him.

BTW, I haven’t denied God. What I have done is reject the insufficient evidence presented for his existence. If you have better evidence, Richard, please provide it. Maybe you will be the one to win me to Jesus. Oh wait, you can’t. You have already determined I am a reprobate; a man headed for Hell, without recourse. You better hope you are not wrong. Imagine what God will say to you come judgment day?

Saved by Reason,

Richard’s response to this post:

Wouldn’t expect anything less for a response to attempt to justify yourself as an atheist & what you claim as a humanist – LOL. I just find your love affair for the IFB very humorous as I stumbled onto to your blog that attempts to discredit it. Most interesting were the comments of poor followers that agreed with you all beaten down and claimed to have PTSD. LOL rebellion. Funny how anything fundamental scares people. How dare people in 2023 take the Word of God literally when we should be re-creating God in our own image. I mean after all, Hollywood, the state & government say marriage between a man and a man is good & legal, after all they claim now up to 150 genders. How dare the church say women shouldn’t wear them hot britches and spray on tops, I mean it’s up to them men not to be tempted of lust. I applaud those IFB’s that do this and turns off those that disagree. Obviously you have a refuge those that are hurt because no means no. It’s only humanistic to build an army of like minded antichrists & atheists to make you feel better. If them queer suspenders do it for you then be my guest.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, You are Full of Hate, Bitterness, and Unforgiveness

May 30, 2023 Evangelicalism 3 Comments

Over the weekend, I received the following email from Marlene Strader.

Strader read all of two posts: Songs of Sacrilege: Need a Favor by Jelly Roll and Why I Hate Jesus before contacting me. She looked at the Why? page, but evidently didn’t have the finger strength necessary to click on any of the listed posts. So, her attack on my character is fueled by one Songs of Sacrilege post and a polemical post about why I hate Jesus — a post often misunderstood by Christians who lack comprehensive reading skills.

Here’s what Strader sent me:

Why all the hate? Hate is what’s wrong with the world. People selfishly worshiping themselves, their politics, and their own ideologies. So you’re an atheist? So you claim your own moral authority? Fine. What do you care what others believe if you believe in nothing? So what if you think they are wrong? You just come off like the hypocrites you despise. Full of hate, bitterness, and unforgiveness.

What hate, exactly, is Strader talking about? Maybe she confuses critique and challenge with hate. I don’t hate anyone. Life is too short to be hating people. I do, however, hate certain political, religious, and social beliefs. I make no apology for doing so. When beliefs cause harm — both psychological and physical — their proponents should expect pushback.

Yes, I am an atheist. Yes, I am my own moral authority, as are Christians and other religious people. Each of us decides what moral and ethical standard by which we will govern our lives.

Strader thinks I believe in “nothing.” Of course, I have all sorts of beliefs about everything from God and the designated hitter to socialism and which sex position I prefer. If Strader wants to know what I believe on any given subject, all she has to do is ask.

Had Strader bothered to read any of my autobiographical writing, she would have learned that I don’t care one whit about what people believe as long as said beliefs don’t materially affect me and my family. Unfortunately, Evangelicals, conservative Catholics, and Mormons are determined to turn the United States into a theocratic state; one where Jesus rules supreme and the Bible is the law of the land. History tells us that when church and state are one, blood is shed, people die, and freedoms are lost. So, as long as Christians try to turn America into a “Christian country,” I plan to be on the front lines pushing back. As long as Christians try to criminalize abortion, ban birth control, demonize LGBTQ people, ban books, force public schools to teach creationism as science, demand teachers daily lead students in Bible reading and prayer, and promote abstinence-only sex education, you can count on me to publicly and vocally challenge their anti-democratic ideologies.

I have thirteen grandchildren, and all but two of them attend local public schools. Their futures matter to me, as do the futures of my six children and their spouses.

Strader attacks my character, yet she provides no evidence for her accusations. None. Anyone who reads more than a few posts on this site knows that I am not “full of hate, bitterness, and unforgiveness.” Strader has built a strawman of the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser in her mind. In doing so she has disobeyed God. Proverbs 18:13 says: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.

A minute or so after I received Strader’s email, I received another message, this time from a Southern Baptist pastor:

From one evangelical pastor to one previous evangelical pastor, I stumbled on your page, and I think you are witty and funny. I thought a kind, humorous word might be a small counterbalance to all the irritating things you have received from evangelicals. Rather than “God bless you,” I’ll just wish you good luck. LOL. Take care, my friend:)

I will leave it to readers to decide which commenter best describes me.

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You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christian Man Doesn’t Want Any Contact with Me, Yet He Emails Me Anyway

May 30, 2023 Evangelicalism 5 Comments

Over the weekend, A Christian man by the name of John sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.

After reading about your “mind reading ability” and your becoming a non-believer I wonder what changed you.

I have no idea what John is talking about when it comes to “mind reading ability.” I was unable to find a log reference for John’s IP address — an oddity, to be sure — so I don’t know what he read on this site. I suspect he didn’t read any of my autobiographical writing. Had John shown a bit of curiosity, he would have found the WHY? page. The posts listed on this page would have answered most, if not all, of John’s questions about “what changed me.”

I knew Father Jack Baker for years and I have zero doubt he was wrongfully convicted by an extremely woke, political attorney general.

Joseph “Jack” Baker is a Roman Catholic priest who was convicted last year on sexual assault charges and sentenced to 4-15 years in prison. He was convicted by a jury of his peers. Were they all “woke?” Does John really expect anyone to believe that Baker is innocent; that he was convicted because a “woke” attorney general was out to get him? Baker was convicted of sexually assaulting a child under the age of thirteen. In other words, he is a pedophile.

Baker actually got off easy. As I wrote at the time: “Baker was given a lighter sentence because of all the “good” things he did as a pastor. Does anyone seriously think that this was the only time that Baker took advantage of a church minor? I mean, really? As has been shown in countless Black Collar Crime stories, judges often give offending clergy what I call the “preacher’s discount,” sentencing them to lighter sentences than non-clerics receive. Lost on judges is the fact that these men abused the trust their victims had in them, causing untold physical and psychological harm. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.”

John says he knows Baker. Unfortunately, not well enough to know that he was a child molester. None of us knows people as well as we think we do; even our spouses, children, and best friends. We all have secrets. Baker’s “secret” landed him in prison.

The bible warns in the end times even the elect will be deceived. I wish no contact with you except to plead that you look into the world-wide drive toward woke and the perversion of over 2,000 years of Christian beliefs.

The Bible does not say that in the end times the “elect” will be deceived. Matthew 24:24 says: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Note that it says, “if it were possible, they — the false Christs and false prophets — shall deceive the very elect.” The elect are those chosen IN Christ from before the foundation of the world. The elect will, without fail and at an appointed time, be saved, and they will persevere until the end. The elect might be deceived for a time, but they will always return to the faith. John might want to read the Bible again to see what it actually says about election and the elect.

In John’s mind, wokeness — which I doubt he could define — is some sort of evil that is destroying the world. Evidently, John is anti-progress. He likely pines for the good old days when Christianity ruled the roost; a time when women were keepers of the home; abortion was illegal; Blacks knew their place; LGBTQ people were still in their closets; teachers led public school students in daily Bible readings and prayers. John can’t stand equality, freedom, and justice for everyone. John doesn’t say exactly what he believes, but since I can read minds, I’m confident that what I have written here is correct.

I know two communist party members that are celebrating the “useful idiots” that now promote much of what is in our daily headlines.

John is one of those conspiracy theorists who believes that people in seats of powers are working towards turning the United States into a communist state. This, of course, is untrue. That two unnamed communists says otherwise means what, exactly? Nothing.

Perhaps John thinks socialism and communism are one and the same. They are not. The United States has always had socialist tendencies. John even benefits from socialist programs and laws. It is true socialism is making a comeback in the United States. I, for one, applaud this move towards a better future. Capitalism is a broken system. What rises out of its ashes remains to be seen.

I found God years ago, particularly living through four children dying in my hands. I know where they are and I know you have the option to learn why.

I have no idea what the backstory is about John “living through four children dying in his hands.” Certainly, the death of any child is tragic. That said, John does not know where these dead children are today. By faith, he believes they are in Heaven, but he has no evidence for this claim. None. All the evidence says that dead people stay dead, either buried in the ground or turned into ashes. Christians claim there is an afterlife, but the only evidence they provide for their claims are Bible verses. That’s it. Believing there is life after death in Heaven or Hell requires faith, a faith I do not have.

Further, historically, the Christian church has taught that people who die remain in the grave until the general resurrection of the dead. No one is currently physically in Heaven or Hell. All the Heaven and Hell nonsense spouted by primarily Evangelical preachers is feel-good nonsense meant to soothe the feelings of those who have lost loved ones. Heaven and Hell await, but not today.

John seems to think he can teach me a thing or two about these things. I await his lesson. 🙂

Saved by Reason,

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Evangelical Brian Gauthier Lets Me Know What He Really Thinks About Me

May 2, 2023 Evangelicalism 10 Comments

Over the weekend, Brian Gauthier, the owner of Right Price Real Estate in Lillian, Alabama, decided to send me an email detailing his strong dislike for me as a person. Gauthier visited this site one time, reading the following posts, in the order they were accessed: Another Evangelical Con Job, This Time by 7 Hills Church in Cincinnati, Ohio and Dear Evangelical, Here’s The Number One Reason We Can’t be Friends. After emailing me via the Contact page, Gauthier was served up the front page, but it doesn’t look as if he read any of the posts.

Gauthier didn’t read my About page, nor did he read any of my autobiographical writing. Yet, Gauthier, who doesn’t personally know me and didn’t make any attempt to educate himself about the Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser, thought it important to email me and opine on my character. Perhaps Proverbs 18:13 is applicable here: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.

Here’s what he had to say (all spelling and grammar in the original):

Interesting you don’t want to be contacted especially by Christians but leave a trail of breadcrumbs lol An apparent case of misery loves company. Don’t you think I’d be better to just die in pain silently without trying to take others down with you? I’ve never come across a bigger idiot looking for negative attention. Too bad you can’t give whatever support back to others that may have sacrificed to feed and support your last act as a “evangelical”
That would be a life worth reading about!

My Contact page states:

If you would like to contact Bruce Gerencser, please use the following form. If your email warrants a response, someone will respond to you as soon as possible.

Due to persistent health problems, I cannot guarantee a timely response. Sometimes, I am a month or more behind on responding to emails. This delay doesn’t mean I don’t care. It does mean, however, that I can only do what I can do. I hope you understand.

To help remedy this delay in response, my editor, Carolyn, may respond to your email. Carolyn has been my editor for six years. She knows my writing inside and out, so you can rest assured that if your question concerns something I have written, Carolyn’s response will reflect my beliefs and opinions — albeit with fewer swear words.

I do not, under any circumstances, accept unsolicited guest posts. Think that I’m interested in letting you write a post with a link back to your site? I’m not.

I am not interested in receiving commercial email from you.

I am not interested in buying social media likes, speeding up my website, signing up for your Ad service, improving my SEO, or having you design a new blog theme for this site.

I will not send you money for your ministry, church, or orphanage. In fact, just don’t ask for money, period.

I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, but you are not a medical professional, so please do not send me unsolicited medical or psychological advice. I am not interested — ever.

If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.

If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”

Outside of the exceptions mentioned above, I promise to treat all correspondence with you as confidential. I have spent the last fourteen years corresponding with people who have been psychologically harmed by Evangelical Christianity. I am more than happy to come alongside you and provide what help I can. I am not, however, a licensed counselor. I am just one man with fifty years of experience as a Christian and twenty-five years of experience as an Evangelical pastor. I am more than happy to lend you what help and support I can.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Gauthier wrongly states that I don’t want emails from Christians. I receive emails from all kinds of Christians, including Evangelicals like Gauthier who email me regardless of whether I want to hear from them. Gauthier made no attempt to evangelize me or respond to a particular post. Instead, he did what countless Evangelicals before him have done; he attacked my character.

Is this what Jesus would have done? Of course not. Jesus had a lot to say about how his followers should treat their enemies; how they should behave. Evidently, these verses aren’t in Gauthier’s Bible. Either that, or he doesn’t give a shit about what God says about his behavior. Safe in front of his computer screen, Gauthier can say whatever he wants to say. And he can, but he might want to consider how his words harm the cause of Christ; how his words are yet another reminder that many Evangelical Christians are assholes. So much for the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Is it any wonder Evangelicalism is the most hated sect in America?

Gauthier also wrongly thinks that my goal is to take other Evangelicals down with me. That has never been my goal. I am just one man with a story to tell. Evangelicals are known for telling their stories. Shouldn’t a former Evangelical preacher do the same? Isn’t the world a better place when everyone has the freedom to share their experiences? Yet, Gauthier wants me to shut up and go away. That’s not going to happen.

I write, people read. Readers can love or hate my writing, and they do. That thousands of people love and appreciate my writing is not my fault. Gauthier might want to consider why my writing appeals to so many people. Just this past week, I received two emails from women trying to break free from the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. Why did these women feel comfortable writing to me? I suspect one of the reasons is that story rings true to them; that they see me as someone who understands where they are coming from.

Regular readers of this blog have heard me say countless times: the focus of this blog is to help people who have questions or doubts about Christianity or who have recently left Christianity. I have no interest in evangelizing for atheism.

According to Gauthier, I am an idiot looking for attention; that I and the readers of this blog love “misery.” What is this misery, exactly, that we love? Freedom? Love? Kindness? Compassion? Intellectual integrity? Oh, such misery. 🙂

Gauthier wants me to die in pain silently — I wonder if he knows how much pain I am actually in? — and stop telling my story. Well, that ain’t going to happen. I don’t know how much longer I will be able to write. Somedays, I wonder if I can type another post. The very act of typing is painful. But, I continue plodding away (and taking extra narcotics). Why? I will let my counselor answer this question: “Bruce, your writing matters.” I am humbled when people say this to me. Five decades in Evangelicalism did a number on my self-worth. Spend enough time being told you are worthless without Jesus, and that anything of value you do is because of him, and you will lose all sense of self. It has taken years of therapy to regain a healthy sense of self. There was a time when the Brian Gauthiers of the world would cut me to the quick. Today? I feel sorry for them.

I am sixty-six years old. I can say that I have never, not one time, sought out a stranger and sent them an email detailing what I think of them. I don’t understand this kind of behavior. Why all the viciousness and nastiness? Gauthier could have chosen a different path. He could have asked questions. He could have challenged my writing. He could have tried to get to know me better. Instead, he spent less than ten minutes on this site and then sent me the aforementioned email. I will leave it to him to square his behavior with his professed Christian beliefs. There seems to be a gross disconnect between the two.

Saved by Reason,

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Evangelical Doug Rowland Tells Me the “Truth” About Who and What I Am

April 27, 2023 Evangelicalism 6 Comments

Several years ago, a grammar and spelling-challenged Evangelical man calling himself Doug Rowland sent me the following email:

I don’t know you neither have I heard of you . I just stumbled on this web-site . I know and you know that I know you are doing this for attention . You probley can’t preach very well and had no choice but to find something else to do . God is real and you know that there are no such thing as atheist and you are no acception .

Ah yes, a drive-by judgment of me as a person, my past, and why I continue to operate this blog. As an atheist, I have never, ever left such a comment on a Christian site. I consider such behavior childish, shallow, inconsiderate, rude, boorish, and quite humorous — as if by writing this email Rowland thought it would change me in any way. Not going to happen. If God can’t change me, the Doug Rowlands of the world have no chance. I am, and will remain until death, an atheist. Siccing God/Jesus/Holy Ghost/Local Evangelical preacher on me doesn’t work. I am a reprobate, one who has gone too far to turn back now. Of course, Rowland only read a couple of posts, so he likely doesn’t know these things. If he had done his homework, he might have decided not to send me this email. Or, perhaps, sending the email is all about him; a form of Evangelical masturbation; a feel-good exercise — I sure told THAT atheist! Regardless of Rowland’s motives, let me take a few moments to dissect his email.

I don’t know you neither have I heard of you.

You don’t know me and neither have you heard of me, yet your email suggests familiarity about what kind of man I am or was back in my preaching days. Do you make a habit of picking up strangers and having sex with them? Because, that’s what you are doing here. You made no effort to understand my story, choosing instead to read a few posts and then render what I am sure you think is God-inspired judgment.

For the record, I am actually quite well-known in some Evangelical circles. It’s uncommon for men with fifty years in the Christian church, including twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches, to walk away from everything and deconvert. It happens, but not very often. I suspect that the rarity of my deconversion is why so many Evangelicals are so hostile and caustic towards me. Unable to understand my story or fit it in their theological system, these servants of Jesus, instead, choose to attack my person, my character and, at times, my wife, children, and grandchildren. Every time this happens, I am reminded of how glad I am to be free from religious bondage.

I just stumbled on this web-site [sic].

Oh my God, I caused someone to stumble. Turn the light on, Doug, turn the light on!

I know and you know that I know you are doing this for attention.

Ah yes, another Evangelical mind reader who thinks he knows my “real” motivations for blogging; that the only reason I write is so people will pay attention to me. As with all writers, I do want my writing to be widely read, and I am grateful for the thousands of people who take the time to read what I have to say. In many ways, this blog is my church. The good news is that I can sit in my underwear, sip wine, and listen to Theory of a Deadman while I “preach” my sermons. Beats having to get all dressed up on Sunday and deliver a sermon that most hearers will ignore or forget by nightfall.

So, Doug is right. I write for attention, as all writers do. Who doesn’t want more readers, right? And preachers are no different. Who doesn’t want more congregants? Better to preach to a full house than an empty one.

I suspect Doug’s real motivation here is to impugn my character; to show that I am some sort of attention whore, or that I have no greater meaning or purpose other than whipping my penis out for all to see. I have long since stopped trying to convince people such as Doug otherwise. Believe what you will. How ’bout them Cowboys . . .

This blog, above all else, is one man telling his story. That’s how I started over ten years ago, and telling my story is still a prominent feature of this site today. Over the years, I have branched out a bit: Black Collar Crime Series, Sacrilegious Humor, Songs of Sacrilege, to name a few, but my desire remains the same: that through the telling of my story and critique of Evangelical Christianity, I help those who have doubts about Christianity or who have already left the Christian faith. My target audience has never been Christian zealots, people who are thoroughly committed to their beliefs. That’s why I don’t argue with or debate committed Evangelicals. They are free to read, comment, and move on. (Please see Comment Policy.)

You probley [sic] can’t preach very well and had no choice but to find something else to do.

Ah yes, the “real” reason I am no longer a pastor is that I couldn’t preach very well. Actually, according to people who heard me preach countless sermons, I was a very good public speaker. I worked hard on crafting my sermons, often spending days studying and writing them. I had a lot of failures as a pastor, but my preaching wasn’t one of them. I was passionate and thoughtful, especially as I got older. My goal was to get people to hear what I have to say and then act on it.

I was a full-time pastor, but I also worked outside of the church. All of the churches I pastored, save one, were comprised of middle-to-lower-income to poor people. The most I ever made in one year pastoring a church was $26,000. I pastored one church in southeast Ohio for eleven years. The most money I ever made in a year at that church was $12,000. I definitely was not in the ministry for the money. To help make ends meet, I worked outside of the church: managed restaurants, worked as a grant writer and building code inspector, sold insurance, pumped gas, worked as an auto mechanic, delivered newspapers, and worked as a stripper. 🙂

Of course, I never got to have an opportunity to see how much money I could make after I left the ministry. By then, I had been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and I have spent the last two and a half decades dealing with a plethora of health problems — which started, by the way, while I was still in the ministry, just in case an Evangelical reader is inclined to suggest that my debility is either God punishing me or trying to get my attention. (I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in 1997, eight years before I left the ministry.)

God is real and you know that there are [sic] no such thing as atheist and you are no acception [sic].

Doug believes there’s no such thing as an atheist; that deep down in their heart of hearts atheists KNOW there is a God; and not just any God, but the Evangelical God of the Protestant Christian Bible. When Christians take this tack with me, I often ask them to consider how they might feel if I belittled and denied their faith in Jesus. “Oh you are not a Christian. You know that there is no such thing as a Christian. You know in your heart of hearts that Allah is the one true God, and that all other Gods save him are false.” I suspect doing this would cause offense and anger, and rightly so.

When people tell me that they are Christian, I accept their statement at face value. In my world, it is good manners and respectful to accept people as they are; including how they self-identify. I just wish Christian zealots would grant atheists the same respect. When I say I believe, based on my studies and the extant evidence at hand, that there are no gods, there’s no reason whatsoever to not accept what I say at face value. It’s fine if you disagree with me or think I am headed for Hell. I have similar opinions about your beliefs. Getting along with each other requires we, at the very least, accept and understand the differences we have with others. This doesn’t mean we refrain from battling one another in the public square, but it does mean we allow each other to define our beliefs and label ourselves accordingly. Had Doug bothered to read more of my writing, he might have discovered that not only am I an atheist, I am also an agnostic, a humanist, and a democratic socialist. Unfortunately, many Evangelicals are lazy readers, choosing to render judgment after reading a few posts. Once they find out that I am an ex-preacher or an atheist, in their minds, that’s all they need to know. Judge Judy is ready to rule.

Doug, if you happen to stumble upon this post, I hope you will have learned a thing or two about the infamous ex-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser. If you still have your head stuck in the sand, I encourage you to read the ABOUT and WHY pages. These two pages will go a long way in curing your ignorance. Above all, I hope you will accept me as a fellow human being; godless to the core, but human nonetheless. I know your beliefs and worldview preclude you from believing atheists are real, but rest assured we are. Our numbers grow daily, and we are no longer willing to let Evangelicals define for us who and what we are. I hope, in the future, you will make an honest effort to understand people such as myself. In doing so, you might find we have a few things in common.

Saved by Reason,

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Bruce, You are a Satan-Influenced Judas

April 6, 2023 Evangelicalism 12 Comments

Today, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Alex. My response is indented and italicized and indented. All spelling and grammar in the original.

I’ve read a lot of your site over many months, it is certainly an interesting read, though to a Christian, very sad to hear.

As is my custom, I checked the server logs to see how many times Alex visited this site and what he read. According to the logs, Alex, who hails from England, visited the Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser fifty-three times. Not bad, considering the fact that most Evangelicals who leave preachy comments or send me preachy emails read one or two posts before sharing with me what the Lord laid upon their non-existent hearts.

I have written almost 5,000 posts since December 2014. I highly doubt that Alex has read “a lot” of my writing. Some, a handful, yes, but “a lot,” no. I do appreciate that Alex read what he did. I’ll give him a gold star for that. However, as readers shall see below, Alex “read” but he didn’t comprehend or understand. Despite investing time in reading my writing, he learned little to nothing about me; what I believe; how best to interact with me. Instead, Alex did what Evangelicals do: attack my person by calling me names, attacking my motives, and threatening me with Hell.

It reminds me greatly of Judas, who walked so closely with the Lord yet wanted out and you know the rest. Yet when he got what he thought he wanted, freedom! and a bit of money, He found that actually none of that mattered really. He gave up heaven for what? nothing.

Alex sees me as a Judas-like betrayer of Jesus. Ouch, right? Alex says Judas betrayed Jesus because he wanted freedom and money. In the end, Judas found out that these things didn’t matter. He gave up eternal life in Heaven, for what? Nothing.

First, Judas was preordained to betray Jesus. The Bible calls him the “son of perdition.” Judas had no say in the matter. Jesus was a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. God’s plan to redeem humanity was concocted in the mind of God before Judas, Adam, and Eve were created. I am somewhat surprised that Alex doesn’t know these things, especially since, based on a Google Search, he is a preacher.

Second, we really don’t know anything about Judas. All we have are stories written by unknown authors 30-90 years after they allegedly occurred. Remember, we have no writings from Judas, no evidence that he even existed. All we have are the words of men who, let’s face it, needed a scapegoat for what happened to Jesus. Thus, Judas has become a villain in the minds of twenty centuries of Christians; right up there with the man, the myth, the legend: Satan, aka the Devil, aka Lucifer, aka Beelzebub, aka Slewfoot. It is in this vein of thinking that Alex sees the Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser.

Did I betray Jesus for freedom and money? Alex thinks so. Is it a betrayal to walk away from Christianity? Is it a betrayal when one realizes that Jesus is not who he claimed to be? Is it a betrayal to realize that the central claims of Christianity are untrue? Is it a betrayal to file for divorce from an abusive spouse? I think not. I devoted my life to following and serving Jesus. Yet, when I needed him the most; when I needed him to quell my doubts, questions, and fears, Jesus was AWOL, saying not a word to me. And so I started taking a close look at our marriage, finding out that I was married to deceiver, liar, and myth. If anybody is a “Judas” in this story, it’s Jesus.

Alex suggests that I left Christianity because I wanted freedom and money. On the former, he is right. I wanted the freedom to live my life as I pleased. I wanted the freedom to enjoy life to its fullest, free from the constraints of Evangelical rules, regulations, and standards. Of course, Alex will say, SEE! SEE! Bruce wanted to live a licentious life, so he divorced Jesus and ran headlong into the loving arms of hedonism. Of course, that’s not what happened. I have the freedom to do what I want, but, as a humanist, my life is governed by humanist ideals. I have moral and ethical values that matter to me. In fact, I am a far better Christian than many Evangelicals I know. Sure, I love to say fuck, enjoy good whiskey, watch R-rated movies on HBO, and have experienced making love in other than the missionary position for the purpose of procreation, but based on my good works, I am a pretty good Christian atheist. 🙂 All praise be to Loki!

On the latter — money — Alex is right too. We make more money today than we ever did in the ministry. However, contrary to what another Evangelical zealot recently told me on Facebook, we are not affluent. In fact, we are in the bottom quartile in income, especially when our exorbitant medical costs are taken to account. We don’t live in poverty, nor are we poor. However, if Polly lost her job or the U.S. government stopped paying social security recipients, we would be bankrupt in a month or two.

What is great about our post-Jesus financial position is this: we are free to spend our money any way we want. We no longer have to pay the Evangelical God taxes: tithes and offerings. We no longer have to cough up money every time our pastor — that was me — cooked up a fundraising scheme. We no longer have to “think of the missionaries” or support parachurch ministries. We are free to be as selfish or gracious as we want to be. We no longer feel “conviction” over spending money on ourselves. We now can enjoy a nice meal and a night out on the town without worrying about WWJD.

Alex seems to think that Christian bondage is a selling point. It’s not. I heard the call of secularism: “You are free, cheezy bread. You are free! Go! Go!” 🙂 Why in would I ever want to return to the bondage of Egypt? I have found the Promised Land, and I have no intention of returning to the intellectual equivalent of eating three meals a day of garlic and leeks.

Video Link
And you, having walked so closely for so many years almost with the end in sight decide to betray the Lord.

Alex doesn’t seem to value intellectual integrity. People believe what they believe because they can’t do otherwise. Surely Alex knows that I left Christianity for intellectual reasons. I am an honest man. When I concluded in 2008 that the Bible was not inerrant or infallible; that the central claims of Christianity could not be rationally sustained, what did Alex want me to do? Fake it, until I make it? Faith it? What kind of person does Alex think I am? I am a man of principle and conviction. All Alex needs to do is provide sufficient evidence for the existence of the Evangelical God and the supernatural claims Christians make for Jesus and the Bible, and I will believe. Better yet, skip the evidence. All Jesus has to do is heal me, and I will believe. He allegedly healed people 2,000 years ago. Surely he can do it today! Is he not the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVER? Think of how many people could be won to Jesus if God miraculously healed me and gloriously saved me? Yet, scores of Evangelicals have prayed for me, without success. Either God isn’t hearing their prayers, I’m more powerful than God, or he doesn’t exist. My money is on the latter.

I don’t know how many people put their faith in Jesus due to your preaching over many years, but it must be over 100 souls! Wow! Bruce, how many Christains could ever say that? Very few indeed! Imagine the blessings to be given to you in heaven ! yet you seem to want to throw it all away! I cant understand what for?

In one church alone, six hundred people made public professions of faith. Throw in a few hundred more over the course of twenty-five years in the ministry, and almost one thousand sinners have been saved through my preaching. Not bad, right? According to Alex, God would give me blessings (rewards) in Heaven after death if I would only come back to Jesus. I am throwing all these rewards away, and for what? In Alex’s Bible-sotted mind: nothing.

What, exactly, are the rewards I will receive? A new BMW? A yacht? A hundred-foot-long closet of color-matched clothing, complete with color-matched socks and shoes? No, according to the Bible, I will be rewarded with crowns. Woo Hoo, right? I guess I will be able to show off my crowns to all the Alexes in Heaven; those who didn’t win as many souls as I did? Nope. The Bible says that believers will cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, giving him all the praise and glory for their good works. Jesus is like the boss at work who does none of the work but takes credit for yours.

You say when I die, thats it, the end. Yet how to you KNOW that? What are you basing this assumption on?

How do I know that when I die that will be the end of life for me? No Heaven, no Hell, no afterlife; just eternal darkness and nothingness. My view is not an assumption, it’s a fact. All the extant evidence available to me says that once people die, they stay dead. Five miles from my home lie my mother and grandmother in Fountain Grove Cemetery. Six miles to the south in the Sherwood Cemetery lie my dad’s parents, several aunts and uncles, and a cousin. These graves are an ever-present reminder to me that when people die, they stay dead.

If Alex has empirical evidence for his claim that there is life after death, he should provide it immediately. However, he has no such evidence. All he has are verses in an ancient religious text, faith, and feelings. That’s it. Does Alex expect me to believe in the existence of life after death, all because the Bible says so, or that he “feels” eternal life is a thing? Sorry, but that’s not how I roll. Want to convince me that Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife exist? All you have to do is provide me with sufficient empirical evidence that your claims are true.

You talk on and on about what you dont believe in, yet very little about what you now actually DO believe in.

Evidently, Alex hasn’t read any of the posts where I talk about my current beliefs; about my commitment to democratic socialism and the humanist ideal. That said, the focus of my writing is on telling my story, helping people who have questions and doubts about Christianity, and critiquing Evangelicalism. This has been my focus for the past fifteen years. I do, on occasion, write about politics, especially my progressive view of the world.

On the ABOUT page, I sum up my view of the world this way:

“You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.

Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.”

I believe in love and kindness. I believe in family, friends, and making the world a better place. I believe in enjoying what time I have left on earth, spending it with Polly, our children, our grandchildren, and people who matter to me. I believe in the Cincinnati Reds and the Cincinnati Bengals. I have great faith that one day the Reds or the Bengals will win a world championship.

Of course, all these things are secondary to Alex. What matters to him the most is life to come, and not the here and now. I am not willing to gamble the present away in the hope that I will receive some sort of divine payoff after death; a payoff no one has verifiably received.

Evoulution? then how did sex and reproduction start happening? how did life even start in the first place? It is impossible, no matter how much time you give it…..something cannot appear from nothing.

Sigh (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”)

Alex is not a scientist and neither am I. I know enough to say that creationism is nonsense. Everything that science tells us about our biological world and the cosmos suggests that life and the universe did not come into existence in six literal twenty-four days; that Adam and Eve were not the first humans.

I wonder if Alex knows that scientists (or atheists) don’t think something came out of nothing. Surely, he knows this, right? Surely, he has read the countless science articles on the Internet that explain the existence of the universe? Surely, he has read books by actual scientists; men and women who have spent their lifetimes trying to understand our world? Surely, he doesn’t think Genesis is a science textbook?

I suggest Alex start here:

Video Link
Yet there is still time for you to come back to the Lord!

How can Alex know this? Does he know whether I am one of the elect? Many Evangelicals have told me that I am an apostate or a reprobate — people beyond the saving grace of God. How could Alex possibly know the state of my soul? Maybe I am still a Christian, as many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) allege; once-saved-always-saved, headed for Heaven regardless of Alex’s pronouncements about my eternal destiny. Imagine Alex having to spend eternity with me as his next-door neighbor. 🙂

Don’t you miss walking with Him? Talking to Him? Being blessed by Him?

NO, NO, and NO. I Corinthians 13:11 says: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

I grew up, putting away childish thoughts about a magic man in the sky pulling the strings of my life. Instead of praying to a deity that doesn’t exist, I talk to real people, including myself. 🙂

The Christian life as you know is a battle, and the dark side has deceived you, please turn back to the Lord while you still can. He loves you and is waiting to welcome you back.

The Christian life is a battle because Evangelicals believe the words of the Bible are true; they believe the words of preachers are true. If they would but weigh the words of the Bible and the words of preachers in the balance, they would find them wanting.

While Alex doesn’t threaten me with Hell, the threat is implied: “turn back to the Lord while you can.” If you don’t, God is going to torture you in the Lake of Fire for eternity. Such threats don’t work with me. All they do is remind me that the Alexes of the world believe in a monstrous deity; one unworthy of my time or worship.

Alex can’t possibly know if God loves me or desires to welcome me back to the club. It always amuses me when Evangelicals say Jesus is waiting on me; that he is powerless to save me; that it is up to me to excercise my will and return to the cult. Has Alex not read what the Bible has about the sovereignty of God, God’s decrees, and the inabiity of man to save himself? My salvation rests solely in the hands of God. He knows where I live. He knows my cellphone number and email address. If you are reading this, Jesus, let’s talk. Please stop having Alex and his merry band of cultists contact me. Have you read the things they say, Jesus? Why would I ever want to buy a new Kirby vacuum? 🙂

Alex suggests that I have gone over to the dark side. Only in Evangelical Christianity is intellectual light darkness. Only in Evangelical Christianity is freedom bondage. There’s nothing I can do for Alex other than to pointedly and honestly respond to him. He arrogantly believes he is right. That’s what certainty does, it breeds arrogance. Until Alex can consider the possibility that he could be wrong; that his beliefs are not as sure and steadfast as he thinks they are, there’s not much I can do other than recommend that he read one or two of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Bible. Only then will there be a chink in his Evangelical armor; one through which a bit of knowledge and understanding will shine through.

Saved by Reason,

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Bruce, You Don’t Know Anything About the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church Movement — Part One

March 30, 2023 Evangelicalism 9 Comments

I am widely regarded as an expert on the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. I was raised in an IFB home, attended IFB churches as a youth, prepared for the ministry at an IFB college, married an IFB pastor’s daughter, pastored IFB churches, and have studied and followed the IFB church movement most of my adult life. Yet, it is not uncommon for an IFB zealot to read one or more of my posts on the IFB church movement and conclude that I don’t know anything about IFB churches, pastors, colleges, and parachurch ministries. Gary Richards, whose real name is Gary MacKay, is one such man.

Today, Richards left the following comment on a post titled “Old-Fashioned” Preaching: Calling Sin Sin, Stepping on Toes, And Naming Names. Based on the server logs, this is the only post Richards read. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.) My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.

What is obvious in the 1st paragraph is that you really know nothing of the IFB or IB churches. Their only claim is that they believe in the total Word of God & teach that from it. The term “old fashioned” is just that not from 2,000 years ago, be serious. What this means is from back in the day before the church was hijacked from liberal & progressive ideologies.

“Old Fashioned” is a term used by IFB churches and pastors to denote that their beliefs and practices predate the modern age; that their beliefs hail from better days in times past. Sometimes, the term is used to suggest that present beliefs are the same as those of Jesus, his disciples, and first-century followers of Jesus.

In 2015, I wrote a post titled, What Independent Baptists Mean When They Use the Phrase “Old-Fashioned.” Here’s what I had to say:

Many Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches advertise themselves as “old- fashioned” churches. Many IFB preachers call themselves old-fashioned preachers. What do they mean when they say they are an old-fashioned church or an old-fashioned preacher?

An old-fashioned church is one where members yearn for the past — usually the 1950s. In their mind, if society and Christianity would return to the 1950s all would be well. In the 1950s, Blacks knew their place, women were barefoot and pregnant, birth control was hard to come by, abortion was illegal, homosexuals and atheists were in the closet, and Joseph McCarthy terrorized Americans with attempts to root out communism. In the 1950s, we fought a war against communism, teachers still prayed and read the Bible in school, creationism was considered good science, and Christianity controlled the public space.

Then came the rebellious 1960s and 1970s, and everything changed. Sixty years later, Blacks no longer know their place, Whites are becoming a minority, couples no longer get married, women have access to birth control, homosexuals and atheists are out of the closet, a Kenyan-born Muslim socialist communist black man was president, abortion is legal, prayer and Bible reading in school are banned, creationism is considered religious dogma, same-sex marriage is legal, and Christianity is no longer given a preferential seat at the head of the cultural table.

From the fundamentalist Christian’s perspective, I readily understand why people yearn for the old-fashioned days of the 1950s. The fifties were a time when their brand of Christianity was the norm. Now they are fighting to be heard. Thousands of church members have left, seeking out the friendlier confines of generic, hip Evangelical churches. Instead of hard preaching against sin, Christians clamor for pastors who will “feed” them and minister to their felt needs. Most of all, they want to be entertained. Nones and atheists are increasing in number, and more and more people consider themselves spiritual or not religious. Pluralism and secularism are on the rise, and cultural Christianity is the norm and not the exception.

So what’s an old-fashioned Baptist church like? Their services are quite traditional; traditional meaning as it was in the 1950s. The focus is on “hard” preaching, often from the King James Version of the Bible. The goal is to convert sinners and strengthen church members so they can withstand the wiles of the devil and pressure from the “world.” Everything the old-fashioned Baptist church does is a throwback to yesteryear — an era when preachers preached hard, hymns were sung, altar calls were given, couples stayed married, women saved themselves for marriage and the kitchen, and the Christian church was the hub around which the community revolved.

Millions of Americans attend some sort of an old-fashioned church, even if the Baptist name is not over the front door. They love the respite their church gives them from the evil, sinful, atheistic world they live in. They love the certainty they hear in their pastor’s sermons. They are glad to be a part of a group that thinks just like they do. For those who desire to live in the 1950s, an old-fashioned church fits the bill. It heals their angst and gives them peace. It does not matter if their beliefs are true or whether their practice accurately reflects the 1950s. People seeking and finding value, hope, peace, and direction do not require truth. All they require is faith, and their belief that their “old-fashioned” version of Christianity is true. This is this power of myth.

Keeping the straight path of God’s Word bothers many since adoption and integration of evil & worldly vices, lifestyles and ideology ain’t happening. To suggest that it’s straight out of “one flew over the cuckoos nest just shows your true spirit. There are those & have been that were not drawn by God & grew up in the church & can’t wait to get out & talk smack about it, this is fleshly behavior, nothing new. There are preachers, pastors & teachers that were never called by God for this gift and promote a false gospel & distort God’s Word. There are ex- church attendees maybe even members that have left and claim to be now unbelievers. I would suggest they were never born again and never received God’s Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ sent. This is and always has been a problem since Jesus walked on this earth in the flesh.

Based on what Richards wrote above, it sure seems that there are a lot of unsaved people in the church he attends. All that old-fashioned preaching, yet people are still unsaved; “unsaved” meaning people who believe and behave differently from Richards. IFB zealots are known for their harsh, hateful judgments of people who dare to leave their cult. I have received thousands of emails, comments, and social media messages from Evangelical Christians. IFB Christians — a subset of Evangelicalism — stand at the top of the chart when it comes to people who hurl invectives, hatred, and even death threats. I can’t tell you the last time I have interacted with an IFB believer who was a thoughtful, respectful human being. When called out on their awful behavior, they make all sorts of excuses and justifications, but the fact remains that their ill-bred behavior does little, if anything, to advance the cause of Christ. I remain convinced that the Sermon on the Mount is missing from most IFB Bibles.

LOL – Old fashioned preaching. Preaching that doesn’t make people feel good but rather strokes their flesh is what worldly church attendees desire and it’s their sign they probably are not saved. Once the pastor of the flock preaches on a topic or subject that makes you uncomfortable is your sign. If it makes you butt hurt then go cry to the devil. Now, when it comes to feeling the Holy Ghost from certain type of preaching, you’re not qualified since you’ve never known the Holy Spirit.

Did you notice how Richards seems to be the arbiter of who is and isn’t saved? I thought God was the only one who knows whether someone was saved?

Richards wants me to know that I don’t know anything about the subjects at hand because I never was saved; that the Holy Spirit never lived inside of me. This claim, of course, is ludicrous. I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. Saved at age fifteen, I spent thirty-five years loving, serving, and following Jesus; preaching the gospel, teaching the commands of Christ, winning souls, and starting churches. Richards tries to dismiss my life out of hand, but he can’t. The evidence suggests that I was once was a devoted follower of Christ. That Richards can’t square his theology with my story is his problem, not mine.

Richards cleans carpets for a living. By all accounts, he is good at what he does. Imagine if I went around the Internet leaving comments that said, “Gary Richards doesn’t know how to clean carpets. He can say whatever ever he wants, but I know he can’t clean carpets.” Why, Richards would rightly be outraged. Why? I am dismissing out of hand his carpet cleaning experience. No matter what Richards says, I know better. I am absolutely right. I wonder if Richards will get my sermon illustration?

I have been to Charasmatic churches where fakers abound, doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where these type of churches came out of. As with all fakes you will naturally spin them into the Christian religion even though they are not. It’s just as ludicrous as to trying to convince true believers that a lesbian preacher in a gay church is Christian. I’ve been to quiet lukewarm boring churches that would put anyone to sleep where members go just to punch in their time card and get Sunday over with. Been to churches that have no gospel & a lot of strange wierd things going on like meeting in the basement for a variety of herbs and such. Then you get to a church where the preacher speaks louder which does keep your attention, preaches on the Word right out of the KJV with a non scripted message direct from the Holy Spirit that speaks to everyone, you know you’re in the right place. Worse to y’all no doubt is that message ties directly what you heard before you hot to church.

Again, Richards seems to know who is and isn’t a Christian. He is showing signs of having Elijah Syndrome.

In 2021, I wrote a post titled Evangelical Preachers and the Elijah Syndrome. Here’s an excerpt from this post:

Elijah saw himself as the one remaining true prophet in the land. God reminded him in First Kings 19:18 that there were actually 7,000 prophets who had not yet bowed a knee to Baal.

Every time I think of this story, I am reminded that many Evangelical preachers see themselves as some sort of modern-day Elijah. And like Elijah, each thinks he is the one remaining prophet in the community standing up for God, the Bible, and Evangelical morality. Such preachers delude themselves into thinking that they alone are standing true, that they alone are preaching the right message.

….

I remember thinking this of myself back when I pastored Somerset Baptist Church in Mount Perry, Ohio. Everywhere I looked I saw churches and pastors who were not winning souls and who were not waging war against Satan, sin, and godlessness. As the church began to grow, I convinced myself that people were attending the church because they wanted to hear a true man of God.

….

This “I alone remain true to God” way of thinking is what turns preachers into insufferable, arrogant, hypocritical pricks. Thinking that they have some sort of inside knowledge about God and the Bible, they are determined to share what they think they know with everyone, even if people don’t want to hear it.

Preachers such as Jack Hyles, Fred Phelps, James Dobson, JD Hall, and Greg Locke didn’t start out as pontificating bloviators. Over time, they convinced themselves that they had been chosen uniquely by God to speak on his behalf. Once convinced of this, their pronouncements became more shrill and severe. These Elijah-like prophets of God, thinking that most churches and pastors are Biblically and morally compromised, withdrew from the larger Christian body.

— end of quote —

Over the course of his comment, what has Richards done? He has narrowed his list of “who is a True Christian®” further and further until he reaches a point where only he and a few other believers are True Christians®.

Now, your KJV problem, obviously you haven’t researched that enough. If you study with the greek & Hebrew then you know it’s the closest available in English. The changes in translations like the NIV are crazy & even the creator of the NIV apologized for it before his death. Same with other translations. Sure, the KJV is a pain in the butt to those that don’t study God’s Word.

I don’t have a “KJV problem.” It is Richards who reveals that he is woefully ignorant about the King James Version and other English translations. He is also ignorant of the various manuscripts underlying the various translations; that KJV is based on a small number of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts; that other translations use a wealth of manuscripts for their text. No, the issue here is this: Richards believes the KJV is supernaturally inspired, inerrant, and infallible — an irrational, unsupportable belief. If Richards wants to spar with me on the KJV, I am more than happy to do so. I think he might find that I know a wee bit about the subject; especially since I attended a KJV-only college and read, studied, and preached from the KJV most of my ministerial career. I might even know something something about the Hebrew and Greek texts. 🙂

But……..for the life of me I don’t understand how a pastor of 25 years changes gears & goes into calvanism. I mean, to be a pastor you should be full of the Holy Spirit, called by God to preach and you know God’s Word. Then to walk away & become a humanist & athiest? It isn’t a great surprise because we have countless counterfeit ministries & fallen preachers that were never real. That is a problem & the Word tells us this as we draw closer to that time.

Now we get to Richards’ grand finale.

First, it’s CALVINISM not calvanism — a spelling error common among people who know nothing about Calvinism. I am more than happy to discuss why I embraced Evangelical Calvinism with Richards if he is up to the task. I suspect he is not. The basic IFB position on Calvinism is this: “we ‘agin it. It’s from the pit of Hell.” I doubt he has read John Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion or any other book written by Calvinistic authors. Richards might want to check out my series Why I Became a Calvinist — Part One.

Richards is having trouble squaring my story with his IFB theology. HOW CAN THESE THINGS BE? Richards says. I don’t know what to tell him. I once was an Evangelical Christian and now I am an atheist and humanist. The inability of Richards and others like him to take the round peg of my life and put it in a square hole forces them to dismiss my story and deem me unsaved. Sadly, they never ponder whether the real problem is their theology or their understanding of the Bible.

Richards says I am a “fallen preacher” that never was real. I think deep down he knows better; that if I weren’t a Christian, neither is he.

Saved by Reason,

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