Recently, an Evangelical (IFB?) man named Nate Beck stumbled upon this site and left the following comment:
I agree with some of the criticisms of the fat preacher Corle. However, I balk at the whole rejecting Christ reason for this website. I doubt people who claim they once believed in Christ ever truly believed in Him at all. It truly takes a real loser to reject Jesus Christ, in my opinion. Just sad.
In 2022, I wrote a post detailing my experiences with Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist Dennis Corle. Beck agreed with some of my criticism of Corle — calling him “fat.” Yes, Corle is obese — as are many Baptist preachers — but what his weight has to do with anything is unknown.
Beck takes issue with the “whole rejecting Christ reason for this website.” Hmm . . . is rejecting Jesus really the reason for this site? Is my goal to lead as many people as possible away from Christianity? The short answer is NO. Hardcore atheists often accuse me of being too friendly towards religion in general, and Christianity in particular. I have been accused of being a “secret Christian.” Hardcore Christian Fundamentalists, on the other hand, say that I never was a Christian; that I am lying about my past and my love and devotion for Jesus. Both parties refuse to let me speak for myself, building a strawman Bruce Gerencser, and burning him to the ground. Left standing, of course, is the real Bruce Gerencser — a man very different from the one who is portrayed by his critics. (I am open to and even encourage honest, thoughtful debate and criticism, but when atheist and Christian zealots alike refuse to accept my story at face value, I know that their presuppositions keep them from seeing me as I am.)
I am not an anti-theist, nor am I anti-Jesus. Anyone who reads my post Why I Hate Jesus knows I object to the Western Jesus; to the Evangelical Jesus; to the IFB Jesus; to the culture war Jesus. In my mind, Fundamentalism is the problem, and that is true in every arena of thought and life. While I do not think the central claims of Christianity are true and cannot be rationally sustained, I have no axe to grind with Christians, in general. My focus is on Evangelical Christianity and the harm it causes not only to our society, but to individual people — not only psychological harm, but physical harm too. I make no apology for desiring the death of Evangelical Christianity. Evangelicalism impedes social progress, harms families, and retards intellectual maturity. Think I am being too harsh? Millions of Americans — including people in political power — believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible; that the universe is 6,025 years old; that God created the world in six literal 24 hours a day; that every miracle recorded in the Bible is factually true. Is this not an example of impeded intellectual growth — be it from a lack of knowledge or because of Fundamentalist conditioning and indoctrination?
Beck says I am a real “loser.” Evidently, if you don’t believe in Beck’s peculiar version of Jesus and Christianity, you are a loser. That means that 7+ billion people on planet Earth are “losers.” Of course, those of us raised in Fundamentalist sects and churches know this thinking well. Only our little band of followers of Jesus are “True Christians.” All others are lost, doomed, and damned.
Beck’s answer to my story is that I never was a real Christian; that I spent the first fifty years of life living a lie; that when I share my story with others, I am lying. Of course, Beck has no evidence for his claim. Anyone who takes an honest look at my life will conclude that I was a committed, devoted, sold-out follower of Jesus. Not perfect, to be sure, but the bent of my life was towards holiness. Instead of taking my story at face value, Beck is forced to disparage me because he can’t square my life with his peculiar theology. That is his problem, not mine.
Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time accepting that some people once were saved and now they are lost; that some people, after carefully examining the claims of Christianity decided that they were false? Married couples divorce all the time. The reasons are many, but one reason often given is “irreconcilable differences.” Does that not best describe why many of us deconverted? We simply could no longer reconcile the differences between what we were told and taught and what we eventually learned was actually the truth. For me, the question is not the existence of God. I rarely engage in such debates. Quite frankly, I find them boring and uninteresting, if for no other reason than that such arguments cannot prove that the God of their arguments is the God of the Bible. I have yet to have someone argue successfully for the existence of a particular Christian deity — and there are many.
Beck “needs” Jesus, I don’t. I have all I need with my partner of almost 46 years, our six grown children and their significant others, our sixteen grandchildren, and our three cats — Joe Meower, Socks, and Petey. We are close to our family — never does a week go by when we don’t see some of them. My family is all I need. I find no value in worshipping a dead man. I do find value in some of his teachings, but I don’t worship the man. I find value in Marcus Aurelius’ writings too, but I don’t worship him. How silly would that be, right? The only God I worship is Polly. I have watched her work countless miracles with $25 for a week’s worth of groceries. I have watched her selflessly raise six children, never bitching or complaining about doing without. She is God, in my book.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Years ago, I had no email or comment guidelines for this site. This led to a wild, wild west feeling, of sorts, with Evangelical zealots daily sending me hateful, nasty emails and leaving comments with similar content. Over time, I established comment guidelines and asked readers NOT to contact me if they intended to preach, evangelize, or deconstruct my life.
If you would like to contact Bruce Gerencser, please use the following form. If your email warrants a response, someone will respond to you as soon as possible.
Due to persistent health problems, I cannot guarantee a timely response. Sometimes, I am a month or more behind on responding to emails. This delay doesn’t mean I don’t care. It does mean, however, that I can only do what I can do. I hope you understand.
To help remedy this delay in response, my editor, Carolyn, may respond to your email. Carolyn has been my editor for six years. She knows my writing inside and out, so you can rest assured that if your question concerns something I have written, Carolyn’s response will reflect my beliefs and opinions — albeit with fewer swear words.
I do not, under any circumstances, accept unsolicited guest posts. Think that I’m interested in letting you write a post with a link back to your site, I’m not.
I am not interested in receiving commercial email from you.
I am not interested in buying social media likes, speeding up my website, signing up for your Ad service, improving my SEO, or having you design a new blog theme for this site.
I will not send you money for your ministry, church, or orphanage. In fact, just don’t ask for money, period.
I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, but you are not a medical professional, so please do not send me unsolicited medical or psychological advice. I am not interested — ever.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
Outside of the exceptions mentioned above, I promise to treat all correspondence with you as confidential. I have spent the last fourteen years corresponding with people who have been psychologically harmed by Evangelical Christianity. I am more than happy to come alongside you and provide what help I can. I am not, however, a licensed counselor. I am just one man with fifty years of experience as a Christian and twenty-five years of experience as an Evangelical pastor. I am more than happy to lend you what help and support I can.
Thank you for taking the time to contact me.
Adding this text to the Contact page greatly reduced the volume of my mail, though some readers ignore my requests and email me anyway. In their minds, all that matters is them putting in a word for Jesus or putting the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser in his place. Generally, I use such emails for blog fodder or ignore them altogether.
I also receive emails from people who are determined to give me unsolicited medical advice — even though I ask them NOT to do so. Let me share with you a brief email exchange that took place recently:
Shari:Have you ever looked into the carnivore or lion diet for help with all of your health issues? I have heard many amazing recovery stories from this kind of elimination diet. MeatRX.com Just thought I’d pass it on in case you are at your wits in with the medical establishment and taking more and more prescriptions. Don’t know why, maybe God lead me to your site.
Bruce:My contact page says: “I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, but you are not a medical professional, so please do not send me unsolicited medical or psychological advice. I am not interested — ever.”
Shari: My sincerest apologies. My heart just went out to you for all your medical issues and I thought, you are too young to be dealing with all you are dealing with medically and you have grandchildren to love! I did not read the whole contact page. I read some of your other pages and was on your bio. I didn’t read that you had lost 100 lbs until after I emailed you. I just saw you had some medical issues.
Do not worry, you will never EVER hear from me again sir! What a shock to read this reply to a genuine concern for your quality of life and a desire to help. I am truly sorry for whatever you have experienced to cause you to be so ungracious. “Thanks for your concern but no thank you” could have sufficed or just not reply at all!
You are right, I am not a medical professional but I have been misdiagnosed/damaged by them and am always looking for natural ways to improve my life! Yes, it was unsolicited advice but I thought maybe you have not seen the amazing stories I have seen.
I bet you are really a lot of fun at parties!
Bruce:It is not ungracious to expect people to respect your wishes. I have received hundreds of emails just like yours— from people who either can’t read or were never taught by their momma to respect the place and person of others. That you think it is okay to offer unsolicited medical advice to complete strangers is astounding.
I have serious health problems; incurable problems; problems that will likely kill me. Twenty-seven years ago, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia — a disease that causes widespread pain and debility. Three years I was diagnosed with gastroparesis, and last year I was told I have exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) — both of which affect my ability to eat, digest food, and absorb nutrients. I take a medicine that costs $3,000 a month to provide enzymes that help with food digestion and absorption. Since 2021, I have lost 100 pounds. Yes, I am still obese, but I have lost 25 percent of my body mass.
Thirty months ago, after extensive testing, including CT scans and MRIs, I was diagnosed with degenerative spine disease (Please see Health Update: I’m F**ked):
Disc herniation (T7,T8)
Disc herniation (T6,T7)
Central spinal canal stenosis (T9/T10, T10/T11)
Foraminal stenosis (T5,T6)
Disc degeneration/spondylosis (T1/T2 through T10/T11)
Facet Arthropathy throughout the spine, particularly at T2/T3, T3/T4, T5/T6, and T7/T8 through the T12/L1 levels.
Hypertrophic arthropathy at T9/T10
Look at a picture of the human spine, and using the joint numbers above, you will see that I have widespread damage to my spine and neck. A recent visit with a neurosurgeon left me with a diagnosis that said my spine damage could not be fixed surgically. I also have osteoarthritis throughout the joints of my body.
None of the aforementioned diseases is curable. My primary care doctor considers me to be one of his most challenging patients. There is little he can do for me except to lessen my pain and suffering. I know he’s frustrated and disappointed that he cannot do more for me.
No change of diet will “fix” any of these serious health problems. Shari suggested that I follow the carnivore (only meat, eggs, dairy) or lion (only beef) diet, which are nothing more than extreme versions of the Atkins diet. Of course, with my digestive problems, a meat-laden diet would kill me. According to Shari, if I follow her unsolicited medical advice, it will help ALL my health problems. What’s next, Reiki, homeopathy, or candida elimination? Changing my diet will not do one damn thing for the aforementioned health problems.
I also have high blood pressure and diabetes — both of which are controlled with medication. What I find odd (and offensive) is that people assume that there is something wrong with my diet to start with. How could they possibly know this? Outside of Polly, no one but me knows what I eat. These “health experts” assume that because I am sick or overweight, there must be something amiss with my diet. I hate to break it to you, Sister Geraldine, but I eat a balanced diet with lots of vegetables. Like all of us, I can eat more than I should, but generally, there is nothing wrong with my diet.
I am almost sixty-seven years old. I have never, ever, not one time, offered someone unsolicited medical advice. If asked, I will certainly offer what knowledge I have, but I do not seek out strangers on the Internet and offer them my ill-informed, ignorant diagnosis of their health problems. Such behavior is rude and disrespectful. But, Bruce, they mean well! Maybe, but I don’t care if they do. If I have a sign on my front door that says NO SOLICITATION, I expect people to respect my wishes. And if they don’t? They have no right to get butthurt as Shari did when I pointed out her boorish behavior. If I want medical advice from you, I will ask for it. Until then, mind your own fucking business. (This, by the way, is me being polite. If you knew how much emails from the Sharis of the world piss me off, you might compliment me on my reserve. 🙂 )
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
No matter what women say or do in IFB churches, they will always be considered second-class citizens; inferior to men because the Bible says that women are weaker than men and more prone to emotional silliness. Women can’t be preachers, teachers of adults, elders, deacons, or political leaders. According to some IFB preachers, women just aren’t suited for such jobs. God wants women to submit to their husbands and pastors, and busy themselves with house-cleaning, cooking, fucking their husbands at will, raising children, and working in the church nursery. For these women, their husbands are their bosses, and it’s their duty to submit to them as unto the Lord. Ponder that thought for a moment. How does Jesus want you to submit to him? With love, commitment, and strict obedience. In patriarchal homes, there is a strict order: Jesus, pastor, husband, wife, children, and the dog. Upsetting this order, according to preachers of complementarianism, brings God’s judgment. No marriage is a good one without it being perfectly aligned with God’s order for the church and home. Or so preachers say, anyway.
Some IFB women endure such treatment for the sake of their children. It is not uncommon to see IFB women divorce their husbands once their children are out of the house. I suspect other women take the he that endureth to the end shall be saved approach. They willingly suffer being misused and abused, believing that God will reward them in Heaven for their sacrificial obedience.
But what if Peter Ruckman and his fellow misogynists are right; that women will be turned into men once they arrive at the pearly gates? Think about that fact for a moment, ladies! Imagine spending your life putting up with shit from men, only to find out when you get to Heaven that God hates you too and plans to turn you into a thirty-three-year-old man. Isn’t God’s plan wonderful?
My advice to IFB women is this: RUN! Flee the mind-numbing, psychologically damaging preaching of IFB pastors. If need be, tell your IFB husband that he has two choices: FLEE or separation/divorce. Life is too short for women to give it all up to the wants, whims, needs, and desires of religiously motivated men. There’s no Christian Hell or Heaven awaiting, ladies, so now is the time to make for yourselves your own heaven and hell on earth; hell for the men who demean you and heaven for yourself and those value you as people.
I shall wait for God’s anointed ones to show up and object to what I have written here. The BIBLE says ___________, they will say, and in doing so they will prove, yet again, that the Bible can be used to prove almost anything; that Peter Ruckman with his belief that there will be no women in Heaven is just as credible and believable as Christians who suggest otherwise. Evangelical Christianity is, in effect, a paint-by-number board without numbers. Believers can freely use — thanks to the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God — whatever colors they want to paint their picture. How dare anyone suggest that their particular picture is not a representation of True Christianity®.
Today, one of God’s anointed ones, a Christian named Zee, stopped by to let me know that I not only was wrong about women in Heaven, but I am also a narcissist. Here’s what Zee had to say:
Women go to heaven, because there are female saints all over the place up. There there’s more female saints in there are male saints, and I don’t think God would leave Mary without any companionship. There are women up there, Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, Joanne, Esther, Judith. there are women in heaven we are God‘s children. We are sons and daughters you meant, thank you just rule rule and rule and women are nothing. We are daughters of Christ, we all go to heaven shame on you for saying that we don’t you must be a narcissist.
First, according to orthodox Christianity, no one is in Heaven or Hell at this present time. When someone dies, their bodies are either cremated or buried, awaiting the resurrection of the dead. No one goes to Heaven until he or she has been resurrected from the dead, judged according to their works, and given a new body.
Second, the Bible was written entirely by men; men who were largely patriarchal, misogynistic, and sexist. God is presented as a male deity; a father figure, and Christians have largely, throughout church history, viewed God from this perspective. The Bible is not, in any way, friendly towards women. Sure, there are a handful of verses that paint a positive picture of women, but for the most part, women are either viewed as chattel property, slaves, or subservient to their fathers, husbands, and pastors. I am also aware of attempts to re-envision, reinterpret, and rewrite the Bible in ways that paint God and Christianity in a better light. I find that these attempts largely do violence to the Biblical text. I may agree with their motivations, but I cannot get beyond one fact: the Bible says what it says. Instead of trying to turn the Bible into a twenty-first-century friendly book, how about taking it as written in its historical, sociological, and theological context. If you want a Bible that is friendly towards women and modern sensibilities, I suggest you write a new one.
Third, Zee claims there is a Heaven and says Mary, Elizabeth, Joanne, Esther, and Judith are presently there with other saints. No evidence is provided for this claim. I have seen no evidence for the existence of Heaven (or Hell). And neither has anyone else. The only evidence Zee can provide is this: the Bible says ____________. What the Bible says is a claim, not evidence. Just because Zee says there is a Heaven doesn’t make it so. Further, I have seen no evidence for the existence of life after death. Again, the Bible claims that there is life after death, but that’s a claim, not evidence. I am sixty-six years old. All the extant evidence available to me says that humans live and die, end of story; that there is no life after death; no judgment, no punishment, no reward. We live and then we die. If Zee has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it. I won’t hold my breath. 🙂
Finally, I am at a loss to explain why I am a narcissist for sharing what the Bible says about women and Heaven and what some IFB preachers (and Muslims) believe on this subject. I suspect Zee needed to denigrate me and call me names, and narcissist was the first word that came to mind. I wonder if he or she even knows what this word even means?
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical man named Hober Sanovitch — likely a fake name and email address — sent me the following email (all spelling and grammar in the original):
Bruce – I’ve read your denials of Christ and, as a military vet defending our U.S. values, and I applaud your using your God-Given rights to do so.
There is no wall of separation of church & state. We do not have to agree with people but we need to defend against speech that espouses destruction of what America has stood for since 1776. Example: Congress House of Rep censure of Tlib & Omar (Islam Reps (D-Michigan).
It’s entertaining watching people & governments trying to outwit God … and to what end?
What are U.S. values? Who decides which values are American? Hober says he is a military vet who defends these unnamed values. Does anyone seriously believe that the military defends U.S. values, whatever they might be? I am sixty-six years old. From my chair on my front lawn, I see a well-trained military whose primary objective is to advance and protect America’s political agenda and protect the properties and profits of U.S. corporations. It seems to me that the powers that be use the military to “protect” America’s colonial and imperial ambitions. The United States has over 1,000 military installations across the globe. Why so many military bases? What “values” are these bases protecting?
The only “values” all Americans should hold in common are those found in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Military personnel swear under oath to protect and defend the Constitution, as do our politicians and law enforcement professionals. When is the last time our military has been called on to actually defend and protect the Constitution?
Hober says that I have God-given rights. I assume he is talking about the rights delineated in the Bill of Rights. However, whatever rights I may have were not given to me by the Christian God. The rights granted by the Bill of Rights do not come from God, they come from amendments enshrined into law (and later interpreted) by American men and women. God is not mentioned one time in the U.S. Constitution. Not one time. So enough of this nonsense about the United States being a Christian nation with laws given to them by Jesus (who is God). Wealthy white men wrote the Constitution — not God.
Hober goes on to say that “there is no wall of separation of church & state.” This is, of course, patently untrue. Are Republicans trying to topple the Wall? Absolutely. They cannot reach their theocratic goals as long as there is a wall between church and state. That’s why we must fight back every time theocrats even think about taking a brick out of the Wall.
Hober is not a believer in free speech. He supports freedom of some speech — that which aligns with his peculiar worldview. While there’s no such thing as absolute free speech, generally people should be free to say whatever they want (and to suffer the consequences of said speech). I despise street preachers, but I defend their right to stand on a public sidewalk and scream at passersby about sin and getting saved. I defend Donald Trump’s right to spew bullshit every time he opens his mouth. I defend the right of Palestinian-American congresspeople to show their support for the Palestinian people. We live in a pluralistic country. The U.S. is a secular state. We are a free people, although I suspect we are not as “free” as we think we are. The Bill of Rights guarantees the right to free speech. Hober evidently interprets that to mean “only speech that conforms to my white, heterosexual, Christian worldview.”
I would love to ask Hober what, exactly, “America has stood for since 1776.” Personally, I don’t care what our founding fathers “stood for.” Surely, we should know and reflect upon our nation’s 260-year history, but we live in a different day and time, so we must, with one eye on the past, forge our own way.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the past sixteen years, I have received countless emails and social media messages from Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and everyday church members. These emails and messages are typically hateful, judgmental, mean-spirited, and unkind. Some IFB adherents have threatened me with physical harm, including murder. They have also threatened my partner, our daughter with Down syndrome, and our other children. With no decency, no respect, and no regard for how their words might be perceived, these so-called lovers of Jesus ignore their Savior’s commands about how to treat their enemies. The Sermon on the Mount is nowhere to be found in their Bibles.
This behavior is not new, nor is it atypical. Abused people tend to abuse others. When you spend your life being berated and judged — hard, foot-stomping, pulpit-pounding, hellfire and brimstone preaching, brother! — by their pastors, is it any wonder that when they get older, they repeat the same behavior? The late Jack Hyles turned out thousands of preachers just like him, men filled with certainty and arrogance who Sunday after Sunday abuse their congregants with the pure words of God straight from the King James Bible. The late Cecil Hodges, a notable IFB preacher, said one time at a conference I was attending, “We hit our people over the head with the sin stick so often that they duck when we begin to preach.” Boy, ain’t that the truth. When you are psychologically abused and assaulted this way year after year, you begin to think the abuse is “normal.”
Some IFB preachers are nice people with winsome, kind, helpful personalities. By all accounts, they are respected by people both inside and outside of the church. Recently, Republican Mike Johnson was chosen to be the speaker of the House. Johnson is an all-round nice guy. However, when you look at his Fundamentalist Baptist beliefs and practices, you find a very different kind of man — beliefs that are physically and psychologically harmful. Johnson is a true blue believer, as was I. By all accounts I was a winsome, kind, helpful preacher, but my beliefs were anything but.
Does this mean IFB Christians are bad people? Well, certainly some of them are. More than a few IFB preachers are sociopaths, and some are even psychopaths. Narcissism is common. The question is, why this is so?
Hodges’ email was respectful and polite, so I shall respond to it in like manner:
Hello there Mr. Gerencser,
My wife and I have been IFB missionaries in Honduras for 26 years now. I would hate to think that I left my home in the USA and all that is dear to proclaim a gospel that is a figment of someone’s imagination. It would be sad to waste my life in such a way. But of course we do believe it is real and many precious souls have come to experience God’s grace as well.
People commit themselves to all sorts of beliefs that are false, beliefs they are willing to die for. Hodges likely thinks Mormonism is a cult, but millions of people believe Mormonism is true. Mormon missionaries go two-by-two across the earth, preaching the gospel and evangelizing sinners. They are devoted to the teachings of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. If the level of devotion and commitment is evidence for the truthfulness of a belief system, then Mormonism is definitely true. Of course, Hodges thinks Mormonism is false.
How is the IFB church movement any different? Just because people are committed to a peculiar belief system doesn’t mean it’s true. People can and do commit themselves to all sorts of beliefs that are false. None of us is exempt from delusion. All any of us can do is rationally and skeptically examine our beliefs. Hodges believes his peculiar brand of faith is True Christianity®. How does he know his flavor of Christianity is true and all others are wrong? Forty percent of Hondurans are Roman Catholics — Christians in every sense of the word. I suspect that Hodges rejects the claim that Catholics are Christians. How do we determine who is right? Every sect appeals to the Bible as evidence for their beliefs, yet no two of them agree on what the Bible teaches, They can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion. Why, then, is Hodges certain he is right?
I grew up in IFB Christianity in the 70s and 80s.
Hodges was born into and grew up in the IFB church movement. The only religion he has experienced is IFB Christianity. Thanks to lifelong conditioning and indoctrination, Hodges is certain that IFB Christianity is right. I understand where Hodges is coming from, having spent the first forty years of my life in Fundamentalist Christianity. Even though I left the IFB church movement in the late 1980s, I continued to pastor churches that were Fundamentalist. It was only when I pondered whether I could be wrong that I began to reexamine my beliefs. I wonder if Hodges has ever taken a hard look at his beliefs? How many books outside of his IFB rut has Hodges read? (Assuming he reads books. Some IFB preachers don’t read anything except the Bible and the terms and conditions on porn sites.) 🙂 Best I can tell, Hodges is King James Only — an untenable position if there ever was one. I wonder if Hodges has ever read any of New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the nature and history of the Bible? Until I was willing to read authors who were not IFB/Evangelical, my beliefs remained safe and secure. However, once I started wandering outside of the Evangelical box, I found that many of my sincerely held beliefs were untenable. I tried to hang on to some sort of faith, but eventually came to the conclusion that the central claims of Christianity were false.
Most IFB church members are cradle believers. Born into the church, it is all they know. They have what is called a borrowed faith. While they can point to a time when they got saved, they can’t point to a time when they weren’t surrounded by IFB beliefs and practices. Unlike many mainline sects, IFB Christianity is all-encompassing: multiple church services each week, Sunday school, revivals, conferences, youth rallies, and the like daily reinforce the one true faith (IFB Christianity). When people ask me why it took me fifty years to deconvert, I point them to my childhood, the conditioning and indoctrination. How could I have become anything other than an IFB preacher? My path was paved with thousands of hours of preaching and teaching that reinforced my IFB beliefs. I had no reason to think I could be wrong. The Bible says . . . end of discussion, right?
That seemed to be the tail end of the big church growth movement of the Fundamental Baptists in America. I realize that not all of the pastors of that time were faithful but many of them were. Some people were embittered over bad experiences they had with a particular church or pastor.
The bigger question is why the IFB church growth movement died on the vine. Why did so many of these churches close their doors or become shells of what they once were? If these churches preached the faith once delivered to the saints, why are they in numeric decline? Hodges would have me think that some people were “embittered over bad experiences they had with a particular church or pastor.” Is he suggesting that I am bitter? Scores of people have left IFB churches. Did they all leave because they were bitter or because they had bad experiences? Maybe we should take a closer look at these “bad experiences.” If I could, I would love to share with Hodges the emails I have received from hurting IFB believers. They were misused and abused, and, at times, raped, assaulted, and sexually molested. Bullies abound in the IFB church movement.
Regardless, the IFB church movement is dying because of its unwillingness to adapt to the times. Their rigid beliefs keep them from adapting to the twenty-first century. Instead, they continue to operate using 1950s methodologies. Of course, they take great pride in being anti-cultural.
I would love to know who Hodges thinks were “faithful” pastors. I suspect he and I have different definitions of the word “faithful.”
While I am no longer a Christian, I pay close attention to the IFB church movement. We have family members who are IFB pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. I daily read IFB websites and blogs, and occasionally listen to IFB sermons. I am a member of my alma mater’s (Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan) Facebook group. As someone who is considered an expert on the IFB church movement, I believe it is important for me to keep in touch with the machinations of the movement. While there is a peripheral movement towards more progressive practices, the beliefs of the 1970s and 1980s are pretty much the same as those held by more “enlightened” IFB preachers today. Sure, some IFB churches use drums and guitars in worship now, women are permitted to wear pants, and men can have mustaches, beards, and longer hair, but the core beliefs and practices are still harmful.
In my case I happen to believe to this day that the position of the IFB churches was and is the right position to take although some perhaps executed those positions poorly. It’s sort of like former President Trump I guess. Great policies but many hated his attitude and demeanor.
I certainly take issue with disgraced former president Trump having “great policies.” Many of his policies are contrary to the teachings of Christ. Worse, he is a vile, disgusting human being. Yet, countless IFB Christians voted for him twice and will do so again if he is on the ballot in 2024. I will never understand how any Christian could vote for the man.
Anyway I’m not the smartest guy in the world and my IQ is not the highest.
I can make no judgment here because I don’t know Hodges.
But the whole Christianity thing makes perfect sense to me.
Has Hodges seriously examined and studied any other religion but his own? I doubt it. I would love to know how many religious books he has read that were NOT IFB or Evangelical. Since such reading is widely condemned or forbidden, I suspect Hodges doesn’t wander too far from his IFB roots. I would be glad to make some reading suggestions if Hodges is interested in challenging his beliefs. 🙂
If it’s not real I don’t know why we are here on earth. Not much to live or die for if there is no eternal life.
We are here on earth because a woman and a man had sex, the woman became pregnant, and nine months later gave birth to all the Bruces, Sams, and Pollys of the world. I don’t need a deity to understand and comprehend why I exist. My existence is self-evident.
Does Hodges really believe there is “not much to live or die for if there is no eternal life”? Has he really thought about the implications of a meaningless life without Jesus/eternal life? I don’t know about Hodges, but my life is filled with meaning and purpose — all without God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity. Since this life is the only one I will ever have, I want to make the most of every moment of every day. Even in my sickest days, I still try to make the most of the day before me. I am in a tough spot physically with little to no hope in sight, but I still try to do what I can to make the most of my life. Does Hodges really believe life would be meaningless without eternal life; that the only reason he is a good person is that a religious book told him that a mythical deity promises him a home in Heaven IF he believes the right things? Is the promise of eternal life the only reason Hodges isn’t a rapist or a serial killer? If so, by all means, keep on believing. If Hodges needs religion to be a good person, fine. I just wish he’d realize that MOST humans do not need his brand of Christianity to live good and prosperous lives. In fact, I can make a compelling case for the fact that Fundamentalist Christian beliefs keep many believers from being good people; that their beliefs require them to hate, marginalize, and condemn anyone who thinks differently from them.
Polly and I have been married for forty-five years. We have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. We own our own home, drive a nice late-model car, and have two indoor and two outside cats. Our children and grandchildren all live within thirty minutes of our home. Are not these things (people) enough to make life worth living? If all I had was my family, it would be enough.
I hope Hodges will really rethink the notion that he has nothing to live for without the promise of eternal life. Is not this life enough, to live it fully and without reservation?
I give the following advice to readers on my About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
This approach to life has served me well, as it has countless other unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines.
And just imagine if hell is real after all(and I believe it is) then all those who scoffed at that are in real trouble.
Sadly, Hodges ends his email with an appeal to Pascal’s Wager and a reminder that HELL is real. The good news is that as an IFB teenager, I was gloriously, wonderfully saved, so, according to once saved always saved, I am still headed for Heaven when I die. Nothing can separate me from the love of God, right? Hodges could argue that I never was a Christian, but I am confident he can’t provide any evidence to justify such a claim.
As far as Pascal’s Wager is concerned, I wonder if Hodges has applied it to all the other religions of the world. Shouldn’t I also become a Muslim just in case the Muslim version of Hell is true? Shouldn’t I cover all my bases just in case the true God of the universe is Allah or any other deities humans worship are God? Instead, Hodges applies Pascal’s Wager and the threat of eternal damnation only to the tenets of Christianity.
But everybody is going to believe like they want to. Thanks for taking my comments.
My beliefs, for the most part, are based on evidence. I will become a Christian the moment someone provides me with sufficient reasons to believe. I am open to believing in God, but so far the evidence that has been provided to me is lacking or false. Hodges seems to be asking me to believe regardless of what I know to be true. I can’t do that. If there is a God, he knows exactly what it would take for me to come to faith in Christ. Instead, God hides or sends people to evangelize me who seem capable of only spouting Evangelical talking points or cliches. I am more than willing to have honest, open discussions about Christianity, but Bible quotes, sermonettes, or cheap evangelism methods ain’t going to cut it.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical woman named Barb Webb sent me a short email today that said:
It so heartbreaking to me that you didn’t meet the real Jesus. He is still there.
Webb then left the following comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus:
Heartbreaking to read that you were introduced to an imposter not the real Jesus.
I have no idea how much, if any, of my autobiogpraphical material Webb read. I suspect, not much. Her email and comment reflect ignorance about my story and past beliefs. No one with knowledge and understanding about my Christian past would ever say that I didn’t meet the “real” Jesus.
Who is the real Jesus? I believed in, worshipped, and followed the Jesus of the Bible. I assume this is Webb’s Jesus too. Of course, my story is different from Webb’s, so instead of trying to understand my story, she dismisses it out of hand, saying that I never was a real Christian.
What evidence does Webb have for the claim that I was introducted to a “false” Jesus? Is she saying my parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, youth leaders, and college professors were all false Christians too; that everyone in my sphere of religious influence was deceived too?
I agree with one thing Webb said, “He [Jesus] is there.” 2,000 years ago, Jesus was executed by the Roman government. He was then buried in an unknown grave where he remains to this day. So, Webb is right, Jesus is still there, buried in an unknown grave somewhere in or near Jerusalem. He will remain there, never to be seen again. If Webb has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it. (Quoting the Bible is a claim, not evidence.) She, of course, doesn’t, so all she has is a faith claim which I reject.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an Evangelical Christian named Kelli Ritter. My response follows.
Hello Bruce, do you really believe that a God that created you a human has to reveal Himself to you to be real?
God didn’t create me, so there’s that. Just because Genesis 1-3 says God created everything doesn’t mean he did. That’s a claim. If you want me to accept and believe your claim, you must provide evidence to support your claim. That’s how the real world works. People make all sorts of claims — including people from my own tribe — that are not true. They are free to believe whatever they want — including religious beliefs such as yours that I consider irrational and lacking in empirical evidence.
Religion is best served when people recognize that religious beliefs are based on faith, and not science. Either someone has faith, or they don’t. In my case, I don’t. If God wants me to believe in him and embrace the central claims of Christianity, he must give me verifiable reasons to believe. So far, no reasons have been forthcoming. Instead, all I see is an ancient tribal religion — a blood cult. Currently, Israel and Palestine are at war over what verses in the Old Testament allegedly say about land given to the Jews thousands of years ago. Thousands of people have died, and for what? A myth. There’s no evidence for the existence of Abraham (or Moses), yet Jews and Palestinians alike are willing to die over words spoken by a mythical deity to a mythical tribal leader. My God, it’s 2023, yet people are dying over interpretations of the Bible.
If salvation is the end-all, it seems to me that God would be clear about the matter. He’s not. Christians can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, communion. Talk to a hundred Christians and you will find just as many beliefs about God, the Bible, and salvation. Who is right? You? The Catholics? The Baptists? Which Baptists? The Presbyterians? The Mormons? 2,000 years of nonsense and confusion. You would think God would want to settle this once and for all. Instead, according to you, he deliberately hides from us and obfuscates what should be clear to all of us.
God doesn’t require you to believe in Him for Him to be real.
While that certainly is true, I must believe in him to be saved and have life eternal. Religion can and does have value. Religion need not be true for people to benefit from it. Religion — including your flavor of Evangelical Christianity — has helped countless people, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. Religion can and does have a placebo effect. If that’s what gets you through the night, so be it. I just don’t happen to need a mythical religion and God to have meaning and purpose in my life.
And He couldn’t anyways because God is so holy and perfect that seeing that kind of perfection would kill us instantly.
God could reveal himself by actually involving himself in the affairs of the human race and creation at large. As things now stand, there’s no evidence that God is involved in our lives at all. At best, he is a deity who created the universe and then said, “There ya go boys and girls, do with it what you will.”
The world looks exactly as it should without the existence of God. We are on our own.
He doesn’t hide himself to play games of believe or non belief. God hides Himself because in our fallen state we can not see His form and live. That’s why He sent His Son. So we would know everything He said from the beginning was true.
How do you know what the Bible says about Jesus is true? Again, you are making all sorts of claims — without evidence.
God’s hiddenness, in my opinion, is an insurmountable problem for Christian apologists. If God wants me to “know,” he knows where I am. He can call, text, or write me or stop by and invite me out to lunch. Instead, all I hear is silence. Well, that and the droning, preachy words of Christians like you.
God doesn’t want your religion and Christianity isn’t a religion although it’s classified that way. Christianity is a relationship with God.
Christianity is a religion, and you embarrass yourself by saying otherwise. While certainly there is a relationship aspect to Christianity, you can’t disconnect it from the fact that Christianity is a 2,000-year-old religion comprised of tens of thousands of sects with countless (and often contradictory) beliefs and practices. The Bible says there is “one Lord, one Faith, and Baptism,” yet history suggests this verse is untrue. If Christians can’t figure out what is “true,” how can they expect the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world to do so?
God saved us from Himself. God has saved us for Himself . And God has saved us by Himself through Jesus Christ. If Jesus really did do all the things the Bible says He did and He really did rise from the dead, then our quest for God stops with Him. If you’re searching for evidence you will never find evidence for God except in scripture.
Well, let’s talk about the Bible, then. You make all sorts of claims and assumptions about the Bible. I am confident I can show you that your claims are false; that the Bible is an error-filled, contradictory ancient religious text; and that its words are largely irrelevant. If you haven’t read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books about the history and nature of the Bible, I encourage you to do so. His books will disabuse you of the notion that the Bible is inerrant or infallible. I will gladly ship one of his books to you, without cost.
When you read the word daily it has a power in it and it starts to reveal things to you. Heavenly things. And it is an amazing feeling to be revealed things from heaven. I hope that you will consider my words and consider Jesus Christ more seriously your spirit depends on it. I will be praying for you. God bless.
I daily read the Bible for most of the first fifty years of my life. As a pastor for twenty-five years, I spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. I can’t imagine there is much of anything left to learn. The Bible is no different from any other book. With so many new, interesting books to read, why spend your lifetime reading the Bible over and over and over again? That said, I have done my homework, and I am more than happy to discuss the Bible with you.
I found your words annoying, little more than a sermon. On my contact page, I ask people NOT to send me preachy emails like yours, yet you ignored my request and emailed me anyway. Why is that? Why do feel the need to seek out a complete stranger on the Internet and preach at them? What did you hope to accomplish? You didn’t say one thing that I haven’t heard countless times before. Thousands of Evangelicals have come before you, each thinking the Holy Spirit was leading them to email me. If God wants to “reach” me, I wish he would stop sending arrogant, preachy people like you (that’s sarcasm) and contact me directly.
I don’t have a “spirit.” I have a body that is broken, frail, and dying, but no soul, spirit, or other magical entity. Do you have any evidence for the existence of the “spirit?” That’s a rhetorical question. I know the answer is no. Your religion teaches you that you have a spirit or a soul (depending on whether you are bipartite or tripartite), but provides no evidence for their existence apart from a handful of Bible verses.
Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Let me know if you are interested in receiving one of Bart Ehrman’s books.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, I received an email from an Evangelical man named Richard Johnson. What follows is my response.
To be perfectly honest, I do not know exactly how I stumbled upon your webpage. I do not know you, nor do I desire to pick a fight with you.
You stumbled upon this site either through a web search or social media post. No one “stumbles” upon my writing by accident. Further, if, as Christian orthodoxy states, God is the creator of all things and the sovereign ruler of the universe, he is to blame for you reading my blog.
Not only do you not know me, your email reveals that you have no regard or respect for me as a person. I specifically asked you NOT to email me (please read the Contact page), yet you chose to do so anyway. Why is that? Did you seriously think that you were going to tell me something that I did not already know about God/Jesus/Bible/Christianity? Your email treats me as if I am clueless about what Evangelical Christians believe. I assure you that a have a working knowledge of all things Evangelical.
I am 71 years old, so that makes me around five years older than you. I am an evangelical Christian that has studied the Bible extensively for a number of years. Although I have never been trained in a seminary or been a pastor, the Jesus I know differs greatly from the Jesus you thought you knew at one time.
“Knowing” Jesus does not require studying the Bible “extensively” for a number of years.” Jesus never studied the Bible (as you are using the term), and neither did the apostles. The early church took hundreds of years to compile what you call the “Bible.” In fact, most Christians had limited reading and writing skills, and early gatherings consisted first, of worshiping in the Temple, and later gathering in homes to pray, fellowship, and listen to readings from the Old Testament and other religious texts. You may not know this, but early Christians did not own leather-bound Oxford King James Bibles. They relied on oral transmission of religious teachings.
Speaking of Peter and John — two of the men in Jesus’ inner circle, the Bible says in Acts 4:13: “Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.” Unlearned and ignorant, Jesus’ two closest disciples were, yet their behavior demonstrated that they were followers of Jesus.
How do you KNOW your Jesus is the right one? How do you know I worshipped the wrong one, a false Jesus? Do you know anything about the lifelong trajectory of my theological, political, and social beliefs? Or, have you cobbled together in your mind a strawman of the beliefs of one Bruce Gerencser — an Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist? How much of my autobiographical material did you actually read before hitting “send?” I suspect a post or three before you felt “led” by the Holy Ghost to preach at me. To this, I say, “Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.” (Proverbs 18:13)
The Jesus I know is the epitome of grace.
Jesus is God, right? I assume you are Trinitarian, so you can’t divorce Jesus from the actions and words of his Father. Thus, Jesus, the epitome of grace, is directly responsible for drowning millions of innocent men, women, children, babies, and fetuses in Genesis 6-9.
Richard Dawkins had this to say about the Old Testament God: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
This God is Jesus. Surely you know this, right? Christians love the Jesus of the gospels, but that Jesus is one and the same as the God of the Old Testament and the God of the book of Revelation who will one day slaughter most of the human race and make earth uninhabitable.
The reason why He left heaven was because He regarded our helpless estate as human beings. We are His creation. Satan deceived Eve. Adam chose to willfully sin, and every human being thereafter was infected with a sinful nature. That was why Jusus told Nicodemus he needed to be born again. When someone is born again, that person has a new entity that lives inside him/her that contends with the old sinful nature. In order for the “born again” entity to prevail over the old sinful nature, the born again entity must be fed more than the old sinful nature. Amy Grant once sang a song called “Are You Living In An Old Man’s Rubble. You can find it on Youtube should you care to listen to it. If you choose to do so, please find the version with the lyrics.
Outside of the Bible, what evidence do you have for these claims? Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The Bible is a book of claims. If you want me to believe what you are peddling, you are going to have to provide actual evidence for your claims, starting with the notion that we are broken sinners who need fixing.
The Jesus I know and serve is a Gentleman.
The Jesus you know is one you have concocted in your mind, just as millions and millions of other Christians have done. I find it amazing that the Jesus you know looks like you, thinks like you, and believes the same thing you do. How can unbelievers know which Jesus is the right one? Christians can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion.
He died a painful and degrading death on a Roman cross to give us the choice to accept or reject Him and His offer of salvation.
Jesus was executed because he was considered a threat by the Roman government. Your statements about his death are claims for which you provide no evidence. Further, even when I consider your claims from an Evangelical perspective, it is evident you lack a comprehensive understanding of Christian orthodoxy.
Jesus died on the cross to atone for sin. Before the world began, God predetermined that Jesus would die at an appointed time for the sins of the elect. Jesus was a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. Libertarian freewill is not taught in the Bible. Well, the Bible can be used to prove anything, but most Christians believe that salvation is of the Lord; and that no one is saved unless God regenerates, draws, calls, and redeems them. Jesus said in John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
As far as Jesus’ suffering is concerned. He suffered for all of 12 hours or so. Sure, his suffering was painful, but I know people who have been suffering horrible, debilitating pain for decades. Compared to their suffering, Jesus’ was just a minor inconvenience. Please see I Wish Christians Would Be Honest About Jesus’ Three Day Weekend.) Jesus knew deliverance awaited just around the corner. Not so for these people, many of whom who have spent years without success begging Jesus to heal and deliver them
In your listing of 16 reasons why you are not a Christian, reason number eight was simply not true. God sends no one to hell. People who reject God’s free gift of grace are the ones that send themselves to hell. God will honor the decision of anyone who chooses to accept or reject Him.
It is “simply not true” because you say so? Who created the universe? Who is the sovereign Lord over all? Who is the Kings of kings and Lord of lords? Who knows the end from the beginning? Who knows our every thought, word, and deed? Who created Adam and Eve? Satan?
Matthew 24 and the book of Revelation make it clear that it is God (Jesus) who will one day cast all non-Christians in the Lake of Fire. He alone determines who is saved and who is not. I can easily argue that God determined who would be saved before the world was created; that no one goes to Hell unless God sends him there (and the same can be said for Heaven/God’s eternal kingdom).
You want to believe in libertarian free will because it makes God (Jesus) look good and absolves him of all culpability for human behavior and the state of the world. You want to give him all the credit for the good in the world, but none of the bad. God=good, Satan=bad.
In the book of Job, it was Satan that did all the tormenting of Job. God showed the devil and anyone else who read the book of Job the true nature of Satan. The Bible says that Satan will one day spend eternity in hell.
Who created Satan? Could Satan have done anything without God’s permission? Of course not. You seem desperate to protect God’s “good name,” so much so that you are willing to go to great lengths to distort the words of the Bible. Go back and actually read the book of Job without reading your peculiar theology into the text. You will find a God is front and center in Job’s suffering, none of which would have happened without God’s permission.
Satan is responsible for all the pain and suffering in this sin-sick world of ours. He was the one who oversaw the torture, suffering, humiliation, and death of Jesus on the cross.
Again, you are making claims — without evidence. Satan, much like God, is a mythical being. He can’t be responsible for anything because he doesn’t exist. Humans alone are to blame for what happens in the world. It was the Roman government, at the behest of the Jews, that oversaw the “torture, suffering, humiliation, and death of Jesus on the cross.” Not Satan.
Jesus did not die in vain, but He overcame death and the grave. I serve a risen Saviour and His name is Jesus.
I know you “believe” this, but you can’t expect others to believe it without providing convincing evidence for your claims. Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. Coming to this site and preaching at me and my readers accomplished what, exactly? Your words are no different from those of thousands of Evangelicals who have come before you. Same old shit, new day. Instead of preaching — listen. Instead of preaching — show respect to people you differ with.
I am more than happy to answer whatever questions you might have. However, I have zero interest in sermons or Bible quotations. I know all I need to know about God/Jesus/Christianity. With eyes wide open, I reject the central claims of Christianity. I am not low-hanging fruit; someone who is a prospect for Heaven. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A Christian man named Andy Miller sent me a short, succinct email today. Here’s what Miller had to say:
If you have left all tenants [sic] of faith, why do you care, except to build up yourself?
I know, I know. Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”)Child, please. Just another email from someone who has made no effort to understand my story. But, it’s a cold, rainy fall day in O-h-i-o. Why not give Miller the answer he so richly deserves? Evidence suggests Miller is affiliated with the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement.
Dear Andy,
The key to you understanding me is to actually read my writing. Based on what I can tell from this site’s server logs, you read all of one post before emailing me, The Scandalous Life of Jack Hyles and Why it Still Matters. You spent all of two minutes reading this article. You didn’t read the About page or any of my autobiographical material. No one, of course, is obligated to read anything before contacting me, but if you want to be taken as a thoughtful, honest interlocutor, it pays to do your homework.
I have not left all tenets of “faith.” What I have left is organized religion in general, and Christianity in particular. I have carefully weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. I am still a person of “faith.” By faith, I trust that science is the best tool for understanding our natural world. By faith, based on forty-five years of evidence and awesome rolls in the hay, I believe my partner, Polly, loves me. I live in a technologically advanced world; one which requires expertise beyond my abilities. By faith, I trust experts to tell me the truth about things I lack sufficient knowledge to understand. Son #3 is a certified mechanic. While I used to do ALL of my own repair work, I can no longer do so. My knowledge of automobile repair stopped growing in the early 2000s. When I have a car problem, I call my son. Why? He’s the expert, so I put my faith in him to tell me the truth.
Here’s my point, all of us are people of “faith,” to some degree or another. Most of us try to have what I call “reasoned faith.” None of us is a limitless dispenser of knowledge — though I try to convince my grandchildren that I am. 🙂 We rely on others, especially experts, to help us navigate our world.
While I no longer have the requisite faith necessary to believe the claims of Christianity are true, my ongoing objections have little to do with “faith.” If the Andy Millers of the world want to gather together on Sundays to worship a dead Jewish man with blood cult rituals, have at it. If they want to plaster their homes, yards, and autos with Christian signs, bumper stickers, creches, and Jesus Junk®, have at it. If they want to home-school their children or send them to private Christian schools, have at it. If they want to evangelize sinners on public sidewalks, have it. I have no problem with personal acts of piety. Each to their own, right?
However, when it comes to trying to overthrow the U.S. government, establish a theocracy, subvert the Constitution, take over public schools, indoctrinate children, or force others to live by your interpretations of an ancient religious text, I care — and I care a lot. Polly and I are parents to six adult children and grandparents to thirteen munchkins. I am sixty-six years old. I doubt I will make it to seventy. So, my focus is on what world I will leave behind for those that I love. I care a lot about their future. I care about what they are taught in school. I oppose any and all attempts to passive-aggressively force them to participate in release programs such as Lifewise Academy. I oppose any and all attempts to mandate school prayer, Bible reading, and posting the Ten Commandments. I want my grandchildren taught science, and not religion — creationism and intelligent design — masquerading as science. I want them taught the birds and the bees, and not here’s-an-aspirin-put-it-between-your-knees-and-just-say-no. I demand LGBTQ people receive equal protection under the law, receiving the same freedom, liberty, and justice as everyone else. I oppose book bans, music bans, play bans, beer bans, clothing bans, and countless other issues that seem to rile Evangelicals these days.
So you see, Andy, I care because these things matter — at least to me, anyway. You seem to think that I no longer have a right to protest these egregious affronts to our democracy and social order; that once I left Christianity I no longer had a right to say anything. I may have left Christianity, but Christianity sure hasn’t left me. Frankly, I can’t get away from it. And as long as Evangelicalism is hellbent on damaging and controlling my life and that of my family and friends, I intend to publicly push back.
Andy, you made no effort to know the man, the myth, the legend, Bruce Almighty, yet you felt qualified to judge my motives; that the reason I write is to build myself up — whatever the hell that means. “Build up” implies gain. What, exactly, have I gained by telling my story and critiquing Evangelical Christianity over the past sixteen years? I make no money to speak of from my writing. I receive donations via Patreon and Paypal, but these pay costs, and may, if I have a good donation year, allow Polly and me to eat a meal at a fancy restaurant and spend the night in a hotel. By the time I pay taxes on my blog donations — yep, donations are taxable — most years are a wash.
While I have an ever-increasing readership and loyal support from a number of readers — both of which are metaphorical jolts of adrenaline for me — I also attract a lot of negative attention. Hate mail. Death threats. Attacks on my spouse and our family. I am routinely battered and abused by people who allege follow the Prince of Peace. I would shutter this blog today if it wasn’t for the fact that the things mentioned above matter to me.
The only thing I have built up since I deconverted is my credit card balances and the number of shoes, fedoras, and Charles Tyrwhitt shirts I wear. I am sure you meant something else by your attack on my character, but I will leave it to you to explain yourself.
Do better, Andy, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Two years ago, an Evangelical man from California named Daniel Kluver began his stalker-like behavior by emailing me and commenting on this site. He would later contact my wife and children on Facebook. A year later, Kluver was permanently banned from commenting and blocked (and reported) on social media.
During this two-year period, I wrote about or responded to Kluver eight times:
It has been a while since Kluver contacted me. Evidently, he was perusing an atheist porn site, saw my sexy Santa photo, and fearing the arousal of his latent gay desires, decided to fire off an email to me instead (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
You never were a Christian or you would still be one.
Welp, I was a Christian, so according to Kluver’s present theology, I must still be one. He at one time believed I was still a Christian, but he no longer does so.
According to Kluver’s illogical logic, once you are __________, you are always ___________, no matter what you say or do. Thus, I am either still a Christian (which he rejects) or I never was one.
Kluver doesn’t apply his illogical logic to any other aspect of life. If a person gets married and then divorced, is he still married? Of course not. I could use countless things to illustrate this very point. Life if filled with us changing our minds about choices we have previously made. As far as Christianity is concerned, I came to believe that I had believed a lie; that my parents, pastors, and professors had sold me a false bill of goods. Further, extensive study and investigation of the central claims of Christianity led me to conclude that I had spent much of my life worshipping and serving a God that did not exist.
What should I have done? Keep believing? Faith it until I make it? Better to believe a lie just in case I’m wrong? I did what most thoughtful people do: I examined the evidence at hand and changed my mind accordingly. If Kluver wants to reach me for Jesus — and he doesn’t — he needs to provide me evidence that the claims of Christianity are true. Further, he needs to model behavior that remotely suggests he is a follower of Jesus. So far, all I see is a hateful troll whose goal is to harass me.
Stop lying about this and tell the truth that you probably have nephilim blood running in your life.
For readers not familiar with Kluver’s claims I have Nephilim blood, Genesis 6:1-4 says:
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim [giants] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
The Nephilim are mysterious beings or people in the Hebrew Bible who are described as being large and strong. The Hebrew word Nephilim directly translates to “the fallen ones”. Their origins are disputed. Some view them as offspring of fallen angels and humans. Others view them as offspring of the descendants of Seth and Cain.
The main reference to them is in Genesis 6:1–4, but the passage is ambiguous and the identity of the Nephilim is disputed. According to the Book of Numbers 13:33, ten of the Twelve Spies report the existence of Nephilim in Canaan, prior to its conquest by the Israelites.
A similar or identical biblical Hebrew term, read as “Nephilim” by some scholars, or as the word “fallen” by others, appears in the Book of Ezekiel 32:27 and is also mentioned in the deuterocanonical books Judith 16:6, Sirach 16:7, Baruch 3:26–28, and Wisdom 14:6.
According to Kluver, I am the offspring of a human mother and a fallen angel. He, of course, has no evidence for his claim. He’s just making shit up. I will, however, gladly submit to blood and DNA tests to prove Kluver’s claim. Where does one go for a Nephilim test? 🙂 I’ll be sure to ask my doctor at my next visit.
I have never heard of a saved devil so I understand that you can’t help being a liar.
In classic Revival Fires, Derrick Thomas Thiessen, and Victor Justice fashion, Kluver accuses me of being a liar. Once again, he provides no evidence for his claim. Among outspoken former Evangelicals, I am known for being open and honest about not only my past life, but the present. While I have a few secrets which I shall never divulge, I am generally an open book. Have a question? Ask. It seems, then, that Kluver is lying about me being a liar. Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time telling the truth or being honest interlocutors? I am more than happy to have discussions with Evangelicals provided they are thoughtful and honest.
So do you want all your garbage to die when you die or do you still want to bring embarrassment to your self?
Garbage? Unable to accept my story at face value, Kluver has resorted to all sorts of derogatory name-calling — a common Evangelical trait. Today, I am “garbage.” What does Kluver hope to accomplish by this approach? Shitting on unbelievers is not an effective way to reach them for Jesus.
After writing this post, I found a comment that Kluver left in 2019:
Baptist’s suck that’s all I want to say about them.
Okay?
In 2021, Michael Mock had this to say about Kluver:
Kluver seems to have mistaken being full of himself for being full of the holy spirit. Probably thinks of himself as a “straight shooter” who’s just “telling it like it is,” which is one of the top five excuses I’ve heard assholes give for their behavior over the years. But hey, if he has the power — excuse me, gift — to get his prayers answered by the Almighty, then this should be easy for him. All he has to do is get the Lord to address us directly. Have Jesus stop by for a beer. Easy!
Amen.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
