The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser

Tag: Independent Fundamentalist Baptist

  • Dr. David Tee Blames “Books” for My Deconversion

    dr david tee's library
    Dr. David Tee’s Massive Library, Including Ben Berwick’s Favorite Book, Meerkat Mail 🙂

    Dr. David Tee, who is neither a doctor nor a Tee, recently decided to let the readers of his blog know why the Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser deconverted. Tee, whose legal name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, has blamed all sorts of things for my loss of faith, but now he has decided that “books” are my problem; that if I had only read the “right” books I would still be a Christian.

    Thiessen is not alone in his assertion. One former church member told me that books were my problem; that if I would just start reading the Bible again, all would be well. I had a preacher friend, who prided himself in not reading anything except the Bible, tell me that I needed to get rid of my library and just read the King James Bible. He proudly was an ignorant man of one book. He was certain that if I would just start reading the Bible again, my faith would return.

    Here’s what Thiessen had to say (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):

    BG [Bruce Gerencser] often complains that we write about him more than any other topic. That is not true, of course, as we rarely write directly about him. We do write about what he has said on his website, which is totally different.

    However, this article is about him directly as he is an example of what not to do. While we are writing mainly for pastors, missionaries, and church leaders, what happened to BG can also happen to the layperson in the congregation.

    These words apply to you, your children, and your friends as well. Protecting your faith is essential if you want to hear those treasured words, ‘Well done thou good and faithful servant’. But BG did not protect his faith and he is no longer part of God’s family.

    The way that he did that was to open his mind and heart to unbelievers. Here is was, a pastor for 25 years, knowing and preaching the truth for 4000 sermons, yet he still let evil take him down. Instead of following the Bible correctly and discerning between right and wrong words, true and false teaching, he may have slowly let false teaching destroy him.

    The Bible tells us that the secular world does not have the truth and lives in a dark world. They truly have nothing to offer the believer. When we were young it was said that the church was about 10 years behind the secular world and that statement applied to a variety of issues.

    What we have seen in the last 40+ years is that the church seems to be equal to the secular world in adopting sinful teaching. We are not talking about the use of technology in the sermons although that should be dispensed with, we are talking about accepting secular psychological ideas for counseling, theology, as well as life in general.

    When that happens we are not shining our light unto a dark world and not only do we put ourselves as Church leaders in jeopardy, we are doing the same for our congregations. Sadly, BG led his family to destruction as well as many people he can through his website and interviews.

    He came to this fallen state by doing the following:

    “I decided I would go back to the Bible, study it again, and determine what it was I REALLY believed. During this time, I began reading books by authors such as Robert Wright, Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman, These three authors, along with several others, attacked the foundation of my Evangelical beliefs: the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. Their assault on this foundation brought my Evangelical house tumbling down. I desperately tried to find some semblance of the Christianity I once believed, but I came to realize that my faith was gone.”

    Instead of going to God like Billy Graham did when he felt the call to ministry, BG went to unbelievers. he opened the door to his destruction by ignoring what the Bible says about evil men and accepting their words over God’s.

    Evil will use a variety of people to try to take you down. It can be through books, movies, t.v. shows, sexy men and women, as well as questionable situations. having God protect you is the way you need to run the race and finish the course.

    “During this time period, I read countless books written by authors from a broad spectrum of Christendom. I read books by authors such as Thomas Merton, Robert Farrar Capon, Henri Nouwen, Wendell Berry, Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, John Shelby Spong, Soren Kierkegaard, and NT Wright. These authors challenged my Evangelical understanding of Christianity and its teachings.”

    There is no instruction in the Bible to challenge your faith. Jesus simply said ‘ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free’. Both Paul and Peter warned us about false teachers, false prophets, and that evil men go from bad to worse.

    What those verses are telling us is that we do not need to challenge our faith but look for the truth. What we do is put all authors into their proper categories. Is he or she a true Christian writing the truth or are they bringing a different gospel and are false teachers, etc?

    That is the question every church leader needs to ask when reading books from all types of authors. if you are in doubt about an author, find their biography and read up[ on their beliefs. That information will help you make the correct determination and how you should be viewing their words.

    Non-Christian authors may provide insight into how non-believers think and believe, but that is about all they have to offer a believer in Christ. They do not offer any insights on how to live life because they oppose God who has given us his instructions on how to live life.

    We follow God over man, something BG failed to do.

    “I turned to the internet to find help. I came upon sites like exchristian.net and Debunking Christianity. I found these sites to be quite helpful as I tried to make sense of what was going on in my life. I began reading the books of authors such as John Loftus, Hector Avalos, Robert M. Price, Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Jerry Coyne, and Richard Dawkins.”

    This is another thing that should not have been done. Instead of going to Christian websites for help, he went to those who left the faith. What we do not read in his words is if he asked for evidence to support the words of those former Christians and atheists?

    He does ask for evidence from Christians yet nothing seems to be asked from those people he read. He simply took their word for it and started down his slippery slope. What BG also did wrong was what Deut. 21:21 says:

    “Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall eliminate the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear about it and fear.”

    Instead of moving away from those evil people, he embraced them and their words. Disobeying God has consequences and BG has certainly paid for his disobedience. Also, like Bill Mahr who cherry-picked the believers he would highlight in his film Religiosity, BG cherry-picked the churches he would visit:

    “I tried, for a time, to convince myself that I could find some sort of Christianity that would work for me. Polly and I visited numerous liberal or progressive Christian churches, but I found that these expressions of faith would not do for me. My faith was gone.”

    Liberal and progressive Christianity is not Christianity and should not be given the label of being Christian. Why not go to true Christian churches and get the truth? This action sounds like what Bill Mahr did, and that was to protect his atheism, not find the truth.

    BG seems to have wanted to deconvert and went to places that would help him do just that. When in doubt, you do not go to unbelievers or those who bring a different gospel. You go to true believers who have love, compassion, and wisdom and tell you the truth.

    ….

    As Sodom, Gomorrah, Noah’s Flood, and the Tower of Babel are examples of what not to do, so are the life and decisions of BG and every other former Christian. Keep your eyes on Christ and you will never fail.

    According to Thiessen, when I began questioning my beliefs, I should have ONLY read books by Evangelical authors. Evidently, he forgot that I had already read these books. I know what Evangelicals believe and practice, inside and out. Why would I waste my time reading books that repeated the same apologetics arguments over and over again? I know all I need to know about Evangelical Christianity.

    I am still on a journey of discovery, following the path wherever it leads. I will become a Christian once again if and when I am presented with evidence to warrant me doing so. My “conversion” will take new evidence, not the same-old-shit-new-day stuff. Of course, Evangelicals don’t have new evidence. Their religion is a closed system of thought. Evangelicals pride themselves on allegedly having the same beliefs that Jesus and the apostles had 2,000 years ago. Of course, they don’t actually have the same beliefs, but they think they do. Evangelicals would know better if they bothered to read books outside of their peculiar rut, but such reading is discouraged and, at times, condemned. Thiessen is the norm in Evangelical circles, not the exception.

    There’s much I could say in response to Thiessen, but I will refrain from doing so. I have no idea why he decided to use an eight-year-old post, Why I Stopped Believing, to continue his deconstruction of my life. He makes numerous false statements, including “cherry-picking” the churches Polly and I visited after we left the ministry. Here’s a list of the churches we visited. As you will see, we attended a variety of churches and sects; everything except IFB churches. No need to visit IFB churches since that was our background. Most of the churches were Evangelical theologically, though no church was off limits. We were on a journey, willing to follow the path wherever it led. Sadly, Thiessen is stuck in the religion of his childhood, holding on to his tribe’s deity. Now a senior citizen, Thiessen has no real-world experience with any other religion or system of belief but his own. He does not know what he doesn’t know.

    Thiessen says I wanted to deconvert, that I was looking for a way out of Christianity. Nothing in my story remotely suggests that this claim is true. In fact, the truth is the exact opposite. I did everything possible NOT to deconvert. I wanted to keep believing. However, I value truth over “want.” I became an atheist because I had no other choice.

    Thiessen is free to show what I have “missed” about Christianity, but I am confident no evidence will be forthcoming.

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • Why IFB Churches Are Breeding Grounds for Sexual Predators

    sexual predators

    MAX is currently streaming a four-part documentary titled Let Us Prey: A Ministry of Scandals. Let Us Prey focuses on allegations of sexual abuse in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. Over 6,000 churches claim the IFB moniker, yet most Americans have never heard of the IFB church movement.

    While this post is specifically about IFB churches, it could also be applied to Southern Baptist churches and other independent Evangelical congregations. Tens of millions of Americans are members of and affiliated with churches that may have denominational names but are independent governmentally. Control of their churches rests with their pastors and adult members, not a denomination or other outside authority. There are no checks and balances to keep abuse and misconduct in check. As a result, sexual misconduct by pastors, youth leaders, evangelists, missionaries, deacons, Sunday school teachers, worship leaders, choir directors, Christian school administrators and teachers, daycare workers, and church volunteers is common, far more than just a few bad apples in a barrel of otherwise good apples. If Let Us Prey does anything, it shines a bright light on the secrets and coverups that plague the IFB church movement. Years ago, 20/20 reported on sexual abuse in the IFB church movement. Other news reports, documentaries, books, podcasts, and articles have revealed that the IFB church movement has a big problem with sexual predators; so-called men of God who prey on children, teens, and vulnerable, impressionable adults. Adulterous affairs between preachers and church members are common too.

    Why are IFB churches breeding grounds for sexual predators? The reasons are many, but let me give you a few.

    IFB churches are governmentally independent. Most are pastored by one man. While IFB churches might have deacon boards and elders, typically the pastor is the CEO and has the final say on virtually everything. This means that there are few, if any, checks and balances on the pastor’s power and authority.

    The pastor is considered a “man of God”; someone who is uniquely called by God to be a pastor — an irrevocable calling. How does a man “know” he is called by God to be a pastor? He “feels” it. He just knows in his heart of hearts that God wants him to be a pastor. How dare anyone suggest otherwise. This, of course, thanks to strict, rigid hierarchal structures, leads to authoritarianism — especially in churches where a pastor has been there for a long time.

    Congregants are taught from the womb that they are to trust, respect, and obey their pastors. Challenging or standing against the so-called man of God is verboten. His words are final. Conditioning and indoctrinating church members to think this way about their pastors leads them to blindly trust their shepherds. How could it be otherwise? Is it any surprise, then, that sexual predators find that IFB churches are hunting grounds teeming with vulnerable, innocent potential victims?

    While an increasing number of IFB preachers are prosecuted for sex crimes, way too many of them escape prosecution (or even detection). Why? Most IFB churches investigate sex crime allegations in-house. In other words, instead of immediately going to law enforcement or child protective services, alleged victims are encouraged (expected) to keep their allegations in the church (as commanded in Matthew 18). The most important thing to the church is protecting their “testimony.” If this means covering up sex crimes, so be it. It is not uncommon for victims of clergy sexual predation to be ignored, marginalized, or revictimized by being blamed for the pastor’s “weakness.” Teens, in particular, are often shipped off to IFB group homes or “ministries.” Out of sight, out of mind, the thinking goes.

    Women and sexually aware teen girls are viewed as temptresses; people who prey on the sexual weaknesses of men and teen boys — including pastors and other church leaders. While male-on-male sex crimes are perpetrated by IFB preachers, the overwhelming majority of sex crimes committed by these men are against girls and women. Sadly, many victims never report the crimes against them. They know that they will be blamed or disbelieved. I have received countless emails and messages from IFB church members who, upon reading a Black Collar Crime post about their pastor, refuse to believe that he could ever do such a thing; that the accusing girl/woman is to blame for coming on to or seducing their pastor. They cannot or will not believe that their pastor could ever get a boner looking at another woman, let alone sexually assault them.

    IFB churches have a warped understanding of sin and forgiveness. According to their understanding of forgiveness, no sin, including rape and sexual assault, is beyond the blood of Jesus; that any sin confessed to Jesus will be forgiven and the penitent’s slate wiped clean as if the act never happened. (1John 1:9) While an offending preacher might be expelled from the church for sexual misconduct, there’s nothing that keeps him from pastoring elsewhere or starting a new IFB church. David Hyles, an IFB preacher who committed numerous sex crimes, is still in the ministry today. Why? No one can tell him that he can’t. He’s been forgiven by God for raping church teenagers and bedding numerous adult church members, so why shouldn’t Hyles still be in the ministry? If God forgives you, so should everyone else — including the people you sexually assaulted.

    I am sure this post will evoke outrage in the IFB church movement. How dare I paint with such a broad brush. However, the sheer number of allegations, crimes, arrests, and prosecutions suggests that the IFB church movement is rotten at its core. Not every church, of course, but enough churches that it makes me wonder why ANY church would want to self-identify as IFB. The same can be said for SBC churches and other independent Evangelical congregations. The problem is structural and theological. I can’t imagine many IFB churches being willing to change their theology, practice, or governance. Locked in by their belief that the Bible is inerrant and infallible, IFB churches often find it impossible to change. So they continue the multigenerational dysfunction and scandal, harming countless people in the process.

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • Allen Domelle Whines About How IFB Preachers are Treated Today

    elisha bears
    Cartoon by Graham Williamson

    Allen Domelle, a graduate of Hyles-Anderson College, is the pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church in Bethany, Oklahoma. A staunch defender of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, Domelle is also the editor of the Old Paths Journal. Several years ago, Domelle published an article titled, Treatment of the Man of God (which is no longer available). Domelle offered four ways church members should never treat their pastors:

    • Never treat the man of God with disdain
    • Never demand of the man of God
    • Never distance yourself from the man of God
    • Never treat the man of God irreverently

    In IFB churches, the pastor is called the “man of God.” While Domelle says “the man of God is nothing of himself,” he makes it clear that the man of God’s “position” is what makes him important. Most IFB congregations are pastored by one man. He is considered the head honcho, boss, and ruler. Jesus might get top billing, but IFB preachers are the star of the show, the hub around which the church turns. I know of one man who pastored his church for over forty years. He not only preached, but he also wrote the checks, kept the books, looked at the tithing records to see who was contributing, and ruled over every aspect of church life. When congregants were asked where they attended church, it was not uncommon for them to say, “I attend Pastor _______’s church.” This should not come as a surprise. In IFB churches, pastors often stay at one church for years. The longer the man stays at the church, the more autocratic control he has.

    I attended Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan — an IFB institution. Pastors-in-training were encouraged to go to a community, start a church, and stay for a lifetime. Countless Midwestern graduates did just that. In fact, some men stay until they retire or die, often handing the church off to a son. The patriarchy lives on in IFB churches.

    Millions of people attend churches on Sundays that are pastored and controlled by one man. When congregants look towards the man in the pulpit, they see a man above all men; God’s man; a man chosen by God to be their guide and ruler. (The phrase “man of God” is used seventy-two times in the King James Bible.) IFB preachers turn to the following verses (and others) to justify their authoritarian rule:

    • Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation . . . Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:7,17)
    • Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. (1 Timothy 5:17)

    Some IFB churches have a plurality of elders (pastors). Supposedly, having multiple “men of God” stymies authoritarian rule. However, a closer examination of such churches reveals that while there may be more than one pastor, there’s one, and only one, head pastor. Fundamentalist John MacArthur pastors a megachurch in California. The church is governed by an elder board. But make no mistake about it, Grace Community Church is John MacArthur’s church. He alone has the final say. I have yet to see an Evangelical church that has an elder board that didn’t have one man who ruled the roost above all others.

    In IFB circles, along with Evangelicalism in general, congregants revere their pastors. This should not shock anyone. When you are taught from an early age that the man in the pulpit is God’s messenger, that he is chosen, directed, and anointed by God, is it a surprise that church members idolize their pastor? As a student at Midwestern, I heard more than one chapel speaker say that a pastor becoming president of the United States would be a step down. I was taught that what America needed was more “men of God” called to preach the gospel and stand against Satan. I left college in 1979 believing that God had put his stamp of approval on my life; that this “calling” I had received from God was irrevocable. (The Bible says in Romans 11:29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.)

    Let me bring this rabbit trail back around to Domelle’s post. As is common among IFB preachers, Domelle yearns for the good old days — the 1950s. (Please see Pastor Bob Gray Sr. Pines for the 1950s) He pines for a day when “men of God were revered and honored. It wasn’t that those men were sinless, but it was the position they held that demanded the respect of every person, and was expected from every person.”

    Let’s briefly look at Domelle’s four ways congregants should not treat the “man of God.”

    Never treat the man of God with disdain

    Just because the man of God preaches against your sins doesn’t make him a bad man. The disrespect of men of God on social media is atrocious. People feel like they can say hateful and disrespectful things to the man of God because they feel that they have the forum and the “right” to criticize him. Always remember that how you treat men of God is a revelation of your respect of God.

    Domelle believes it is always wrong to criticize the “man of God.” How you treat the “man of God” reveals the level of respect you have for God. Disrespect your pastor, and you disrespect God. Is it any wonder IFB church members fear criticizing their pastor? Mess with the preacher, and you are messing with God.

    Never demand of the man of God

    To demand of the man of God is to put yourself in God’s place because it is God’s position to deal with the man of God. Sometimes it is not what you are saying that is wrong, but it is how you are saying it to the man of God that is wrong. Your tone towards God’s man does matter to God; you should always be respectful instead of demanding.

    According to Domelle, congregants should never demand anything from their pastor. If congregants think the “man of God” is lacking in some way, it is up to God, not them, to straighten him out. Hear rumors that Pastor Billy is fucking his secretary? Take the matter to God and let him take care of it. Scandals are often shoved under the proverbial rug. If God wants things to be different, he will take care of the matter. Sadly, God rarely takes care of anything, resulting in the rug turning into a mountain of dirty laundry. Decades of misconduct are swept under the rug, with congregants believing that God will make things right. As the Black Collar Crime Series makes clear, if church members don’t act, no one will.

    Domelle believes that congregants should always be respectful to their pastor, regardless of whether such respect is earned. The “man of God” deserves respect no matter what. Again, Domelle invokes God’s name when he says “your tone towards God’s man does matter to God.” Be careful, God is listening to how you talk to your pastor. Use a disrespectful tone and God just might chastise you.

    Never distance yourself from the man of God

    People who distance themselves from God’s man find themselves missing the heart of the man of God, and they also miss seeing the miracles of God up close. One of the biggest reasons I have found that people follow the man of God from afar is because they don’t want him to find out what they are doing.

    In IFB churches, pastors are often considered God’s bloodhounds. Supposedly, they have a nose for sin — well a nose for every sin but their own. According to Domelle, people distance themselves from the “man of God” because they fear he will discover their sin. Wait a minute, Bruce, I thought people’s sins were between them and God. Maybe, but pastors of IFB churches are the equivalent of the Pope. They are Christ’s representatives on earth, given the duty and responsibility to suss out the sinful behavior of congregants.

    The “man of God” oversees the lives of church members, both at church and at home. His eyes are ever watching for “sin.” What is “sin” you ask? Why, whatever the man of God says it is. His interpretation of the Bible is the standard by which all things are judged. Interpreting the Bible differently is viewed as rebellion against not only God, but against the “man of God.” One pastor I knew well told me, “how can a man of God rule over his church unless he rules over EVERYTHING?” His question reveals the fact that authoritarianism breeds absolutism. The pastor is absolutely right all the time. Why? Because he is the “man of God.” Is it any wonder that some people consider the IFB church movement a cult?

    Never treat the man of God irreverently

    In 2 Kings 2:23-25, some boys thought it was funny to call Elisha a bald man, but God showed that He would not tolerate irreverence towards His servant. Always treat the man of God with respect. Never call him by his first name, but always address him according to his position. Never talk bad about the man of God, because you place yourself against God when you choose to speak irreverently about His servant.

    The proper way to treat God’s man is to have a reverential fear of him and follow him closely as he follows God. You should have a fear of God’s man, and you should treat him with dignity and respect; he is God’s man.

    Virtually every article or sermon on pastoral authority will include 1 Chronicles 16:22: Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm and 2 Kings 2:23-25:

    And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

    Simply put, don’t mess with the “man of God” lest bears kill you and eat your body for dinner. Longtime IFB church members have likely heard these verses many, many times. What better way to keep congregants in line than to warn them that God will kill them if they dare speak poorly of or oppose the “man of God.” Domelle states, “Never talk bad about the man of God, because you place yourself against God when you choose to speak irreverently about His servant.” In fact, according to Domelle, you shouldn’t even call the “man of God” by his first name! That’s right. Doing so is disrespectful. I have heard several IFB preachers say that they demand church members call them Pastor _________ (last name). Some of these preachers have Dr. in front of their names (please see IFB Doctorates: Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Everyone’s a Doctor) and expect church members to address them as Dr. ____________ (last name). Never mind the fact that IFB doctorates are almost always honorary or earned through diploma mills. If the “man of God” has a doctorate, people are expected to reverently address him as such.

    Domelle tells his readers that they should “fear” the “man of God.” Why? Bears. Woods. Dinner. No one should be astonished, then, that IFB church members fear their pastor. He is the “man of God” and is to be respected at all times. If God and his man are as tight as Domelle alleges, I’d be fearful too. When you believe the preacher has a direct line to God, it makes sense to keep your mouth shut and obey his edicts. Either that or run as fast as you can out the back door of the church never to return. If you are heaven-bent on going to church, there are kinder, gentler expressions of faith than those found in IFB churches. Don’t waste another moment being psychologically traumatized by a man who confuses his place in life with God’s. (Not that I believe in God, I don’t. But some readers of this post do, and my advice to them is to seek out a pastor who doesn’t have a God complex, and who will treat them with dignity and respect.)

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • Devout IFB Christian Struggles with Understanding My Story

    somerset baptist church 1985
    Somerset Baptist Church, Mt Perry, Ohio, Bruce and Polly Gerencser and kids, 1985

    Jack: Hey Bruce, I just read a little about your life and your description of how IFB preachers are treated like Demigods. I was saved in 1981 and God changed my life and Christ is my Saviour. I went to Hyles Anderson College for a little bit. I’m back with the Lord. The Lord seems to have restored me and I’m happier and have more peace and am winning souls consistently. Are you saying that none of this is real to you anymore? What about God, and Heaven and Hell and Judgement? I’m just asking I’m not trying to argue. I’m curious about your response.

    Bruce: I’m an atheist, so no, I don’t think there is a God, Heaven, Hell, judgment, etc. You might find these posts helpful: Why?

    Jack: Are you familiar with Dr. Jack Hyles?

    Bruce: Yes, I’ve written extensively about Hyles and his son.

    Jack: So what about getting saved, you never believed in that?

    Bruce: Yes, I was saved, and now I’m not.

    Jack: You really believe you were saved? How can you lose your salvation when the Lord comes into your heart?

    Bruce: Don’t let your theology get in the way of reality. Countless people faithfully follow Jesus for years and then deconvert.

    Jack: You don’t believe in being born again, and the Lord coming into your heart, and you becoming a new creature?

    Bruce: Of course I did, but now I don’t.

    Jack: So you don’t think that really happens?

    Bruce: I “believe” it happened. All religious experiences are psychological in nature. We can believe all sorts of things that aren’t true or convince ourselves that certain experiences are real.

    Jack: I believe the Lord really did come into my heart; there has been an internal change that cannot be denied! IT IS REAL! My desires changed, and my outlook, and I’m in the Light now, I see things differently! By faith!

    Bruce: It’s “real” because you think it is. You want or need it to be real, so it is. And that’s fine.

    Jack: You don’t think peace and comfort and joy and God’s love is real. I experience it!

    Bruce: You “experience” what you believe those things to be. Again, all religious experiences are psychological in nature. Devout believers in other religions have similar “experiences.”

    Usually, when an IFB Christian contacts me, I roll up my sleeves and ready myself for a bloody fight. Either that or I just say fuck off and turn on Sports Center. I sensed that Jack really wanted to understand my story, so I decided to briefly engage him in a discussion. I thought, “maybe, just maybe, I can get Jack to look beyond his narrow Fundamentalist theology.” I am not sure I accomplished that, but I hope that I planted a few seeds of doubt that might germinate and cause Jack to rethink his worldview. Not every online discussion has to end in hostility and conflict. I am content to put in a good word for reason, skepticism, and intellectual inquiry and move on.

    Trained by the late Jack Hyles and his acolytes at First Baptist Church in Hammond and Hyles-Anderson College, Jack believes that once a person prays the sinner’s prayer and asks Jesus into his heart, he is a Christian; and once saved, always saved. In Jack’s mind, there’s nothing I can say or do to separate myself from God (Romans 8:35-39). Because I prayed the sinner’s prayer at Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio, at the age of fifteen, I am forever a child of God, and Heaven awaits me after I die. No matter what I have said or done in the intervening fifty-two years, nothing can undo what took place one fall night years ago. I could become a Muslim, commit mass murder, or sexually molest children — it matters not — once saved, always saved.

    IFB Christians such as Jack are left with two possibilities after reading my story:

    • I never was a Christian
    • I am a backslidden Christian

    The first possibility is absurd. There’s nothing in my past that suggests that I was anything but a devoted, committed, sincere follower of Jesus. The fact that I am now an atheist does not magically erase my past (or the knowledge I have about Christianity and the Bible). The only honest explanation for my past is this: I once was a Christian, and now I am not.

    The second possibility is equally absurd. There is nothing in my present life that remotely suggests that I am a Christian. Anyone who reads my blog surely knows that I am not, in any way, a Christian. Not an Evangelical; not an IFB Christian; not a liberal Christian; not a progressive Christian; not a Christian humanist; not a Christian universalist; not a Christian, period. I am a card-carrying atheist, a member in good standing of the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world.

    When someone tells me that they are a Christian, I accept their “testimony” at face value. Jack says he has been an IFB Christian for thirty-eight years. I believe him. It’s his storyline. Who better to tell his story than Jack? I just wish that Christians would do the same for Evangelicals-turned-atheists. “But Bruce,” Christians say, “the Bible says yada yada yada yada.” What the Bible purportedly says is not my problem. I get it. Jack can’t square my story with his peculiar theology. Countless Evangelicals have the same problem when they read my story. Again, that’s not my problem. I know what I know. Ask anyone who knew me when I was a Christian: Was Bruce a “real” follower of Jesus; a True ChristianÂŽ? To a person, they will say, absolutely! Either I deceived my wife, children, in-laws, extended family, friends, college roommates, professors, ministerial colleagues, and congregants, or I really was a Christian. What’s more likely? Trust me, I am not a very good liar. Me not having been a Christian is akin to the moon landing being a hoax.

    Stories such as mine will continue to cause cognitive dissonance for IFB Christians such as Jack. All I can hope for is that by reading my story, they will have doubts and questions that will lead to further investigation and inquiry. Fundamentalist Christians can and do change. I once believed as Jack did, and so did many of the readers of this blog. Yet, we are now unbelievers. Deconversion is a slow, agonizing, painful process. Some people cannot bear the questions and doubts, so they retreat into the safety of their houses of faith. Others, however, are willing to suffer through the process, believing that truth and freedom await them on the other side. There’s a gospel song that says, we’ve come this far by faith, we can’t turn back now. For people such as myself, we’ve come this far by reason, we can’t turn back now.

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • Evangelists: The Hired Guns of the IFB Church Movement

    hired gun

    I grew up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, attended an IFB college, married an IFB pastor’s daughter, and pastored IFB churches for a decade. In the late 1980s, thanks to the Jack Hyles scandal and my exposure to Calvinism, I left the IFB church movement. As a writer, I have made it my mission to inform readers about the inner workings of IFB churches and institutions. My wife’s late father was an IFB pastor, and her extended family includes IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and their wives. (Please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis.) My IFB roots run deep (our family attended Tim LaHaye’s church, Scott Memorial Baptist Church, in the 1960s), and just because I am no longer a believer doesn’t mean that I can no longer speak authoritatively about the movement. While the IFB church movement has evolved over the years, its core principles remain the same. The older generation of IFB preachers is dying off, but, unfortunately, their children and grandchildren are following in their footsteps. Polly’s IFB cousins are now in their forties and fifties. Their oldest children are now college-age. So far, the colleges of choice have been IFB institutions — offering up another innocent generation to be sacrificed for the “cause.”

    I wrote the brief biography above in the hope of warding off IFB zealots who think I am too far removed from the movement to have anything of value to say. I will leave it to readers to decide if my words ring true. The IFB church movement tends to slowly evolve and change. This means that, while there have been peripheral changes since my IFB days, the core beliefs and practices remain the same. Don’t confuse these superficial changes with transformative change. The IFB church movement remains a dangerous, cultic group that causes untold heartache and psychological harm.

    Now to the subject of this post: IFB evangelists.

    I came of age at Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio. The church held several revivals, youth revivals, and conferences every year. Typically, the revivals started on a Sunday and went through Friday or started on a Monday and concluded on Sunday. High-powered evangelists were brought in to preach at these meetings. Their goal was always the same: evangelize the lost and revive the saved.

    As an IFB pastor, I followed in the footsteps of my mentors. Typically, the churches I pastored had two revivals a year. For many years, Don Hardman would come to our church and hold what is called a protracted meeting. For fifteen days — including three Sundays — Hardman would preach to saint and sinner alike. Countless church members attended all eighteen services. Nearby IFB churches would bring busloads or carloads of people to hear Hardman’s often hour-plus-long sermons. Souls would be saved and scores of Christians would come forward during the invitations, kneel at the altar, and get right with God. Throw in nightly special music and fellowship dinners, and it should not come as a surprise that these meetings were the highlight of the church calendar. For his efforts, Hardman walked away with $1,000-$1,500 cash in a brown paper bag. I will leave it to you to decide if he claimed this income on his tax return.

    Over the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry, numerous evangelists preached for me. Notice I said, “preached for me.” As pastor, I was the gatekeeper. I controlled who preached from the pulpit. Evangelists were hired guns, men who came to minister and stir up the church and then ride off into the night. Evangelists were, in effect, traveling preachers who went from church to church preaching canned sermons. Rare was the evangelist who preached new sermons at every church. These “men of God” had certain sermons that “worked,” and as long as these messages were effective, they continued to use them. Seasoned evangelists developed a pool of sermons to preach from. One evangelist, Phil Shuler — a frequent speaker at the Newark Baptist Temple, pastored at the time by Polly’s uncle — had recordings of his sermons. Each night, before the service, Shuler would refresh his memory by playing the tape of that night’s sermon. No need to study, just throw in a few relevant illustrations and regurgitate what had been said before. This practice is common on the IFB conference circuit too.

    As hired guns, evangelists are expected to “help” the pastors they are preaching for. Sometimes, evangelists will sanctimoniously ask pastors, “Brother, is there anything I can pray for this week?” Such evangelists are trying to give the air of being directed by God in their preaching, but as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, those “prayer requests” would find their way into their sermons. Some evangelists just plain ask, “Brother, is there anything you need me to address this week?” Every pastor, myself included, had a list of grievances he would love to have addressed by an outside party. Evangelist after evangelist quizzed me about the state of the churches I pastored, and sometime during the week, my answers would show up in their sermons. Unwary congregants took such targeted preaching as a sign God was “speaking” to them. Little did they know that their pastor was the man pulling the strings behind the scenes.

    elmer gantry

    The goal, of course, was to evangelize the lost and revive the church. Revivals were a way of energizing — for a time — complacent, lazy, indifferent church members. I watched hundreds and hundreds of congregants weep crocodile tears and sling snot as they got right with God. For a time, these lovers of Jesus would walk the straight and narrow, but, in the end, they usually reverted to the norm — as we all do. And just as they got settled in, it was time for another revival! Thus it went, spring after spring, fall after fall, year in and year out.

    Let me be clear, many of the evangelists I knew were sincere, honest men of God. And let me also be clear, some of them were the IFB version of Elmer Gantry. I don’t doubt for a moment that these men believed that “God” was calling them to be evangelists. That said, it’s hard not to see the work of evangelists and revival meetings as manipulative tools used by pastors to gain certain objectives. What better way to stir up your church than to bring in a smooth-talking, high-powered evangelist to preach? Congregants get tired of listening to the same voice week after week. The evangelist is a new and different voice, so people are more likely to pay attention. Smart, and oh-so-godly, is the pastor who uses this to his advantage. The goal is to win the lost and revitalize the congregation. What’s the harm in a little manipulation, right?

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • Wesley Horstman Wants Everyone to Know I’m a Straight-Up Asshole

    peanut gallery

    Over the weekend, I received an email from Wesley Horstman — an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Christian. He wants me to know that he thinks I am an asshole. Why? Evidently, he is offended by something I have written about IFB preacher, Bob Gray, Sr.

    Posts I Have Written about Bob Gray, Sr

    Sounds of Fundamentalism: IFB Pastor Bob Gray, Sr. Says Whites Should Never Marry Blacks

    IFB Pastor Bob Gray, Sr. Peddles Lie About New American Standard Bible

    One, Two, Three, Repeat After Me: Salvation Bob Gray Style

    IFB Pastor Bob Gray, Sr. Pines for the 1950s

    The Sounds of Fundamentalism: IFB Pastor Bob Gray, Sr. Makes a Racist “Joke”

    IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Explains How He Excuses Sex Crimes and Adultery

    Christians Say the Darnedest Things: IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Explains Conformity to the World

    Bob Gray, Sr. Says He is Not a Legalist and Then Proves He Is

    Breaking News: IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Admits to Driving Church Members

    Does IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Have Dementia?

    IFB Pastor Bob Gray Sr. Shows His True Colors

    IFB Preacher Bob Gray Says “Buy My Book if You Really Care About Souls”

    Other posts that mention Bob Gray, Sr.

    Gray pastored the Longview Baptist Temple (now Emmanuel Baptist Church) in Texas for years before handing the family business off to his son. Gray spends his post-Longview days as an evangelist of sorts, preaching at conferences and revivals. Gray, Sr. attended Hyles-Anderson College in Crown Point, Indiana in the 1970s.

    Gray, Sr. — the ultimate bean counter — describes his ministerial career this way:

    Dr. Bob Gray Sr. has been an ordained Baptist preacher for 43 years and pastored two churches in 33 years. He pastored Faith Baptist Church of Bourbonnais, Illinois (1976-1980), and Longview Baptist Temple of Longview, Texas, (1980-2009).

    He pastored for 29 years in Longview, Texas. Under Dr. Gray’s leadership LBT had over one million souls come to Christ. Longview Baptist Temple grew from a low of 159 to 2,041 in weekly attendance under his ministry. The church gave 9.3 million dollars to missions and gave $ 325,000 to help the poor in the Ark-La-Tex area in those 29 years. The church averaged 2,041 the last year of his pastorate in 2008. The church baptized 4,046 converts in the same year.  Dr. Gray had 99 baptisms from his personal soul winning in 2013.

    Dr. Gray attended Michigan State University from 1963 to 1967. He worked for General Motors for seven years as an accountant for the Fisher Body Division in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He was ordained and licensed for the ministry in 1972. He attended Hyles-Anderson College in Crown Point, Indiana, where he graduated Summa Cum Laude in 1976. During Bible College he was listed in “Who’s Who in American Colleges and Universities.” He also served on the staff of Hyles-Anderson College. Dr. Gray received Honorary Doctorate degrees from Hyles-Anderson College, Tri-State College, and Texas Baptist College.

    ….

    Dr. Gray has written 34 books with “JACK HYLES-The Communicator” and “TRIAL BY FIRE” being the two most resent books to be published.  “WHEN PRINCIPLE WAS KING” and “PARENTING SKILLS” are the top two sellers.  He is the founder of SOLVE CHURCH PROBLEMS ministry and INDEPENDENTBAPTIST.COM. He has preached in every state of the union with the lone exception being North Dakota and 17 foreign countries. He is a conference speaker and local church consultant having flown over 6 million air miles.

    Gray, Sr. is an acolyte of the late Jack Hyles and a defender of all things IFB. He is known for supporting sexual predators and abusers such as David Hyles. Gray Sr. has been repeatedly called out for his unseemly — dare I say sinful — devotion to the Hyles family and his single-minded defense of anything and everything these men did and do, including sex crimes. (Please see a list of posts about Jack Hyles and David Hyles.)

    Now that you know who Bob Gray, Sr. is, let me respond to Wesley Horstman’s email. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.

    I am a born again Christian at fifty eight years of age, at a little Baptist Church in the little town of Altona Illinois. Fifty some year’s on I am going to Church tomorrow to hear a guest speaker, Dr. Bob Gray, at my Church, Bible Baptist Church in P.D.C. Wi.

    Horstman attends Bible Baptist Church in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin. Pastored by Andy Doll, Bible Baptist is an IFB congregation. Here’s how the church describes itself:

    We are a Bible-believing, KJV only, salvation-through-faith, church that loves and welcomes everyone.  We hope you’ll come by and see what an active and growing church Bible Baptist Church is.  From potlucks, special church functions, youth activities, open gym for basketball and volleyball, and so much more we are all about living right and following what the Bible says.

    Horstman must have missed the memo about loving and welcoming everyone.

    A few moments ago I googled Pastor Gray and came upon your site.

    Horstman should consider himself blessed. “God” sent him to this site for information about Bob Gray, Sr. Best I can tell, Horstman ignored the vast wealth of knowledge on the IFB church movement available on this site. He read a handful of posts and then fired away.

    Horstman has no questions for me or any commentary about what I wrote. His mission is singular: Call Bruce Gerencser an asshole.

    Pal, I’ll tell ya, the little bit of your shit I read convinces me that your a straight up asshole. If you want to put my name out there for million’s to read well knock yourself out, your still an a.h.

    Welp, I am definitely straight and I can, on rare occasions, be an asshole. Assholery is a common human trait. Horstman himself behaves like an asshole too.

    In Horstman’s world, an “asshole” is anyone who disagrees with him. Horstman made no attempt to read and understand my story. Nor did he bother to read my critiques of the IFB church movement. He didn’t like what I said about Bob Gray, Sr., and that gave him warrant to label me an asshole.

    If your going to prove to the world that I am a stoooopppppiiiiidddddd uneducated moron, again knock yourself out.

    No need for me to prove it, Horstman did it all on his own.

    You look like a sickly person and would hope you are right with God. That’s it nuff said. Enjoy however much of your poison vile life you have left.

    ‘Cuz, if you don’t you are going to burn in Hell for eternity! Horstman concludes his email with a passive-aggressive threat. I know, nothing to see here. This kind of behavior among IFB believers is so common that I am beginning to think it is normative. One thing is for certain, this approach is not effective with Evangelicals-turned-atheists.

    I intend to enjoy what life I have left. Contrary to Horstman’s claim that I have a poisonous, vile life, I have a good life. I have been married to my partner, Polly, for forty-five years. We have six children, thirteen grandchildren, and two cats. I have a lot of health problems: fibromyalgia, gastroparesis, anemia, stage three kidney disease, and a plethora of other physical maladies. I embrace my pain and suffering and do all I can to experience life. Over the past week, we saw all of our children and eleven of our thirteen grandchildren. We talked, laughed, played, told jokes, and argued sports. Good times, to be sure.

    Horstman says I live a poisonous, vile life. This is a claim, for which he provides no evidence. I have been blogging for sixteen years. Not one time has someone called me poisonous and vile. Oh, I have been called all sorts of things, but not poisonous and vile. Perhaps Horstman will explain how he came to this conclusion about me. Or, maybe no explanation is needed. He is an IFB zealot — people known for hostility and hatred; people who routinely attack anyone who believes differently from them.

    Saved by Reason,

    signature

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • Update: Black Collar Crime: IFB Pastor David Walther Convicted of Possession of Child Pornography, Sentenced to Seventy Months in Prison

    pastor david walther

    The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

    In 2022, David Walther, pastor of Faith Baptist Church in Round Rock, Texas, was accused of distribution, receipt, transportation, and possession of child pornography. Faith Baptist is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) congregation affiliated with the Baptist Bible Fellowship.

    The Austin American-Statesman reported:

    David Lloyd Walther, 56, of Georgetown, was arrested on Thursday and charged with distribution, receipt, transportation and possession of child pornography, according to a news release from the U.S. attorney’s office. If convicted, he faces up to 20 years in prison.

    Walther told an FBI agent that “he had a pornography addiction and would often go through cycles ofdownloading and viewing pornography depicting both adults and minors,” the complaint said.

    He also said that he would download child pornography files, “but would often feel guilty and go through a ‘purging’ of files, i.e., deleting the images and associated files, because he knew it was wrong, and that he last purged files on November 08, 2022, the night before the search warrants were served,” according to the complaint.

    Walther was a pastor at the Faith Baptist Church in Round Rock for the past 18 years, said David Clawson, a deacon at the church.

    “We regret anything along these lines that has happened,” Clawson said on Friday about the charges against Walther. “The church will continue to move forward as God has led,” Clawson said. He declined further comment.

    “The criminal complaint alleges that Walther downloaded and made available child pornography using BitTorrent, a peer-to-peer file sharing network,” the release said. It said this happened when Walther, who is a Georgetown resident, was still a pastor.

    When authorities searched Walther’s home and vehicle on Thursday, they found two large computer hard drives that contained child pornography, the release said.

    Walther told authorities that he didn’t know he was sharing child pornography through the BitTorrent network and also apologized “for his actions,” the complaint said.

    He said when he viewed the child pornography the children in it were between 8 and 17 years old, according to the complaint.

    Law and Crime added:

    According to the affidavit, which Law&Crime is not sharing in this instance because of how detailed it is, the pastor had a “BDSM” folder containing an image of a nude boy with a collar on his neck and being sexually abused, a similar image of a female toddler, and images of nude young boys and girls being restrained by ropes and tools. A “Zoo” folder allegedly contained a bestiality video involving a dog and a female toddler “likely less than three years old.”

    The feds allege that the defendant also downloaded several videos through BitTorrent showing young girls being sexually abused by adult men.

    Walther has been scrubbed from his church’s website.

    Last July, Walther pleaded guilty to an enhanced charge of possession of child sex abuse images.

    NBC reported:

    A Texas pastor pleaded guilty to an enhanced charge of possession of child sex abuse images after he admitted having downloaded some of the materials at his church, according to federal prosecutors and court documents.

    David Lloyd Walther, 57, “knowingly searched for, downloaded, distributed and possessed” child sex abuse images, some of which depicted prepubescent minors, on a peer-to-peer file sharing network while he was the pastor of Faith Baptist Church in Round Rock, a city 18 miles north of Austin, the U.S. attorney’s office for Western Texas said Thursday.

    Walther was arrested Nov. 9 after a search of his home and car turned up two large computer hard drives with more than 100,000 images and more than 5,000 videos of child sex abuse material, the U.S. attorney’s office said.

    ….

    He pleaded guilty in federal court in Austin on June 27, court records show.

    Walther could face up to 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000, the U.S. attorney’s office said.

    It was not immediately clear when he would be sentenced. A spokesperson for the U.S. attorney’s office said a sentencing date had not yet been scheduled.

    In a statement, Worth Carroll, an attorney representing Walther, said: “David’s guilty plea is the next step in the healing process after he experienced horrendous childhood abuse where ‘trusted adults’ and the system repeatedly failed to protect him. Since his arrest, David and his family have courageously worked to confront his own abuse, address how he was neglected and abused, and begin making amends for the harm he has caused. I am proud of him, encouraged by the work he has done, and amazed by the love and compassion of his family.”

    Last Wednesday, Walther was sentenced to seventy months in prison.

    Breaking 911 reports:

    A Georgetown man was sentenced in a federal court in Austin on Wednesday to 70 months in prison [5.8 years] and 10 years of supervised release for an enhanced charge of possession of child pornography.

    According to court documents, David Lloyd Walther, 57, knowingly searched for, downloaded, distributed and possessed child sexual abuse material, including child pornography—some of which depicted prepubescent minors—using BitTorrent, a peer-to-peer file sharing network. During a search of Walther’s home and vehicle in November 2022, two large computer hard drives were located and found to contain more than 100,000 images and more than 5,000 videos of child sexual abuse material. At the time of his arrest, Walther was the pastor of Faith Baptist Church in Round Rock.

    In addition to the prison and supervised release terms, the judge also ordered Walther to pay restitution of $61,000.

    “Many families in the Round Rock area placed their trust in this man when he served as a leader in faith for their community,” said U.S. Attorney Jaime Esparza for the Western District of Texas. “I hope that those families can find comfort in knowing our law enforcement partners and justice system are committed to protecting them, ensuring that predators such as Walther cannot continue to pose a threat to innocent children.”

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

  • The Official Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Rulebook

    rules

    The Official Independent Baptist Rulebook, Known in Some Churches as Church Standards

    • Thou shalt obey the pastor at all times
    • Thou shalt obey all adults at all times if you are a child or teenager
    • Thou shalt obey your husband at all times if you are a woman
    • Thou shalt obey your parents at all times
    • Thou shalt obey the police and government unless the pastor says it is a sin against God to do so
    • Thou shalt tithe
    • Thou shalt give an offering
    • Thou shalt give a faith promise missionary offering
    • Thou give an offering any time the pastor says God is saying to collect a special offering
    • Thou shalt attend church every time the doors are open
    • Thou shalt read the Bible every day
    • Thou shalt pray every day
    • Thou shalt pray without ceasing
    • Thou shalt pray for every meal, but ice cream at Dairy Queen after church requires no prayer
    • Thou shalt only use the King James Bible — 1611 edition which is really the 1769 revision
    • Thou shalt only use the Scofield King James Bible
    • Thou shalt not have long hair (over your ears, collar) if you are a man
    • Thou shalt not have a block cut hairstyle if you are a man
    • Thou shalt not have facial hair if you are a man, but if you are a woman you can have facial hair
    • Thou shalt not have tattoos unless you have prison tats from your life before Christ
    • Thou shalt not take the hem out of your Levi jeans or alter your clothing in any way so that you look worldly
    • Thou shalt not wear pants (britches) if you are a woman
    • Thou shalt not wear shorts, but a woman can wear Baptist shorts — also known as culottes
    • Thou shalt not expose any flesh if you are a woman, especially your thighs, breasts, or back
    • Thou shalt only wear dresses with hemlines below the knees if you are a woman
    • Thou shalt not have any physical contact with the opposite sex if you are unmarried
    • Thou shalt not masturbate
    • Thou shalt not have more than one hole in each ear if you are a woman
    • Thou shalt not pierce any body part except your ear, and then only if you are a woman
    • Thou shalt not watch TV, but if you are a carnal Christian and must watch TV thou shalt only watch Little House on the Prairie or Bonanza
    • Thou shalt not go to the movie theater, but using streaming services is okay
    • Thou shalt always have tracts in your shirt pocket or purse, ready to evangelize at a moment’s notice
    • Thou shalt drive a car with church advertising stickers, IFB cliches, or Bible verses attached to the bumper
    • Thou shalt park down the street when visiting the local strip club or whore house lest the pastor know you are there and stay away
    • Thou shalt not dance
    • Thou shalt not listen to secular music, especially rock music, which is from the pit of hell
    • Thou shalt not listen to contemporary Christian music (CCM)
    • Thou shalt not smoke tobacco
    • Thou shalt not drink fermented alcohol — after all, Jesus drank Welch’s grape juice
    • Thou shalt not dip snuff
    • Thou shalt not chew tobacco
    • Thou shalt not cuss, but saying darn, shoot, crap, freaking, and fudge are okay
    • Thou shalt not date non-Independent Baptist girls or boys
    • Thou shalt not have any non-Independent Baptist friends
    • Thou shalt home school your children or send them to a Christian school
    • Thou shalt only read pastor-approved Christian books
    • Thou shalt never speak in tongues
    • Thou shalt only believe what the pastor says you are to believe
    • Thou shalt go soulwinning every week
    • Thou shalt say you have victory over sin, even if you are lying
    • Thou shalt adhere to the perception is reality rule
    • Thou shalt send your kids to the same Christian college the pastor went to
    • Thou shalt leave the church if you commit adultery, get a divorce, or get pregnant outside of marriage
    • Thou shalt  believe everything the pastor says even when you are certain he is lying, speaking evangelistically, or embellishing his illustrations
    • Thou shalt wear a bra if you are a woman, and it can only be a white, underwire bra
    • Thou shalt not mix bathe (Baptist for swimming with the opposite sex)
    • Thou shalt not go to amusement parks unless the youth group is going
    • Thou shalt not go to the prom
    • Thou shalt not show emotion unless praising Jesus from 10:00 am to noon on Sunday or giving a testimony during Sunday evening service
    • Thou shalt say AMEN during at the appropriate time during the pastor’s sermon, especially when he shouts, pounds the pulpit, or performs gymnastics
    • Thou shalt not be angry even though the pastor is allowed to be angry, but that’s because his anger is righteous anger
    • Thou shalt be for what the pastor is for and against what the pastor is against, because if you don’t, a bear might come out of the woods and eat you
    • Thou shalt never use your brain
    • Thou shalt ignore any science that contradicts the Bible
    • Thou shalt never try to fix your own problems because the pastor is the official fixer of all problems
    • Thou shalt takes notes on the sermon even if the rabbit wanders five miles off the trail or the sermon is incoherent
    • Thou shalt always tell the pastor what a wonderful sermon he preached, even when you have no idea what he was talking about
    • Thou shalt always tell Sister Bertha what a wonderful job she did with her off-key rendition of What a Friend we Have in Jesus
    • Thou shalt not use canned (taped) music for music specials
    • Thou shall not play the guitar or drums

    Please be advised that this rulebook is subject to change at the whim of the pastor. He is the man of God who speaks for God. He alone is allowed to change his mind. This means that God changed his mind, yes?

    Of course not.

    This is the Christianity of millions of North Americans.

    Is it any wonder that we are fucked up?

    Feel free to add your own additions to the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Rule Book.

    Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

    Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

    You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.