Today, I received the following comment from a Christian CPA named Brian. I won’t use his last name, or say where his business is located, even though he deserves no respect from me. I might, however, send Brian a few bucks since, as you shall see, the CAPS LOCK key on his computer keyboard is either stuck or broken.
THIS CLOWN MAY NOT BELIEVE IN HELL NOW BUT ONE TENTH OF ONE SECOND AFTER HE DIES HE WILL AND HE WILL NEEEEEEEEVER GET OUT. ENJOY IT NOW WEIRDO.
Brian has never seen Hell, has no evidence to prove its existence, yet he KNOWS it exists, and that the clown Bruce Gerencser is going there when he dies. Sure scares the h-e-l-l into me! 🙂
Brian is yet another bombastic Christian critic who read all of one post on this site. Just one, and then he ejaculated in my direction. Eww, right? I am immune to such comments/emails, but I find them entertaining, and I hope that the readers of this blog do too.
Thanks, Brian!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
1. What thinking is yours with regards to the pre-historic eons of worship of nearly all peoples? (having stood atop multiple 20,000 foot peaks and viewed stone cairns of apparent worship; mummified remains of children sacrificed to appease the gods; studied rituals of flinging one’s self from the summits in obeisance to the gods, etc)?
2. Did I miss your reading of the book by C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity? And your thoughts.
I suspect the author is a Christian, but regardless, I find these questions worth answering. Let me answer the second question first: have I read C.S. Lewis’s book, Mere Christianity? The short answer is yes. I read Mere Christianity years ago, when I was an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor in southeast Ohio in the 80s and 90s. I found Lewis’s book to be shallow, and way too ecumenical for me, at the time.
Mere Christianity is a revised and expanded version of three radio talks Lewis gave, and was written, as Lewis explains in the preface, to present the “mere” essence of Christianity; that is, to explain and defend the beliefs common to all Christian denominations.
….
Though the preface is only a lead-in to the rest of the book, it contains a very revealing statement. In explaining the purpose of the book, Lewis says that he is only writing to defend “mere” Christianity – the core of the religion, the beliefs common to all denominations – and that therefore this book will offer no help to someone who is already a Christian and is trying to decide between two denominations. Although Lewis admits that he is a member of the Church of England himself, he writes: “You will not learn from me whether you ought to become an Anglican, a Methodist, a Presbyterian, or a Roman Catholic” (p.vi).
Lewis says that he will not discuss the differences in doctrine between the various Christian sects for two reasons: the first is that he does not feel qualified to write about the arcane points of theology that separate one denomination from another. But the second reason, he says, is this:
“And secondly, I think we must admit that the discussion of these disputed points has no tendency at all to bring an outsider into the Christian fold. So long as we write and talk about them we are much more likely to deter him from entering any Christian communion than to draw him into our own. Our divisions should never be discussed except in the presence of those who have already come to believe that there is one God and that Jesus Christ is His only Son” (p.vi).
This is a very interesting – some would say damning – confession. Lewis claims that the doctrinal disputes between Christian sects are more likely to turn a seeker away than cause him to convert – and that therefore the appropriate response is to hide these disputes from people who are considering Christianity. How could such behavior be called anything other than deceptive?
If a person converts to Christianity because an evangelist has concealed from him some relevant fact that might have deterred him from converting had he known it in advance, then his conversion was made under false pretenses – it came about as the result of a lie. This would be comparable to a person who buys a house because its former owners failed to disclose that it was built on the site of a toxic waste dump. If Lewis is actually recommending that Christian evangelists practice this sort of dishonest behavior, what does this say about his own ethics? Keep this in mind as we consider Lewis’ moral argument for God’s existence, which is presented in the next section.
….
C.S. Lewis is plainly a gifted writer. Mere Christianity was a quick and enjoyable read, with an engaging and conversational tone, doubtless recapturing some of the atmosphere that accompanied it when it was first broadcast as a series of radio talks. Its reasoning was easy to follow, and the text was peppered with analogies, many of which are quite clever.
However, while this was a literary strength, logically it was a key weakness. There are places where Lewis’ argument is weak or patently flawed, but rather than trying to shore it up by presenting additional facts, he simply restates it as a metaphor. This does not make his case any stronger. He also fails to address several crucial and obvious counterarguments to his points, and has an unfortunate tendency to attempt to downplay or conceal exceptions that refute his arguments, rather than confronting them honestly and openly. The section in the preface where he recommends concealing from prospective converts information that might change their mind about Christianity is the most glaring example; his casual and incurious dismissal of the stark moral differences between cultures, even though his argument absolutely depends on there being no such differences, is another. This is why I summarized this book as “cotton candy apologetics”: fluffy and easy to consume, but ultimately insubstantial.
I do not mean to suggest that Lewis himself was unintelligent. The sections on Christian morality and theology do show evidence of rational consideration and careful reflection; the problem, as it seems to me, is that although he has clearly put a lot of thought into what it would mean for Christianity to be true, he has not invested comparable intellectual effort into arguing that Christianity is indeed true. Instead, he largely takes this for granted. Even when he explicitly argues in favor of it, his arguments have a hurried, cursory feel, as if he were trying to get this boring business out of the way in order to get to the topics he really wanted to talk about. While Christians may find Mere Christianity informative and may even be stimulated to think about their faith in a different way, I sincerely doubt that such shallow argumentation will ever convert a knowledgeable nonbeliever.
I concur with Adam’s conclusions about Lewis and Mere Christianity. While diehard Christians might find his arguments compelling, for those of us who have “been-there-done-that” and have spent years battling and debating Evangelical apologists, Lewis’s claims come off as less than persuasive. Maybe there’s a former atheist somewhere who converted to Christianity after reading Mere Christianity, but I don’t know of any.
Now to the first question: What thinking is yours with regards to the pre-historic eons of worship of nearly all peoples?
Without question, humans have throughout their history generally worshiped deities of some sort. According to Wikipedia:
2.5 billion people worship the Christian God
2 billion people worship the Muslim God
1.2 billion people worship the Hindu deities
Another billion or so people worship other forms of deities or practice animist, pagan religions
While these statistics can be manipulated in any number of ways and make no distinction between actual worship and nominal/cultural religion, it is clear that most people believe in the existence of deities. That said, the article also says that upwards of 2 billion people could be atheists (again, depending on how adherents are counted and classified). We do know that here in the United States, atheist and agnostic numbers are rapidly increasing. Add to these numbers those who self-identify as “nones” — people who are indifferent towards religion or do not identify with any religion — it is clear that Americans are increasingly saying “no thank you” or “fuck off” to sectarian religion. That’s why we see an increasing number of religious freedom laws. Christianity, in particular, is dying on the vine and losing its grip on our culture. The only way to maintain control over our government and society is for laws to be passed that codify everyone’s right to worship God — wink, wink, the Christian God. (Imagine what would happen if Muslims tried to pass similar laws protecting Allah and his prophet Mohammed.)
We now live in the age of science and technology. The Internet is the primary reason religion, particularly Christianity, is under assault on all sides. Before the Internet (and previously, the printing press), sects, churches, and clerics were safe and secure in their religious bubbles. Not any longer.
When we look at past human beliefs, how best do we explain the worship of deities? A God gene? Or as Christians are fond of saying, their God has given every human being a conscience — a moral compass — that provides evidence of his existence (a terrible argument, by the way)?
I would argue that humans are inquisitive beings, seeking answers to existential questions. Thus, humans created gods and religions to answer these questions. It is clear, at least to me, that humans created God, not the other way around. God didn’t write the Bible, humans did. Take a comparative religion class, and what do you learn? That all religions are of human origin. Will God worship remain going forward? In the short term, yes. The short term being hundreds of years. However, if we survive global climate change (and I seriously doubt we will) and don’t nuke ourselves to death, I suspect humans will increasingly lose their need for religion. Is that not what we see in many European countries? While many citizens self-identify with one of the world’s major religions, church attendance is at an all-time low. Take Belgium. Sixty-five percent of people claim to be Christians, yet only thirty-seven percent of them believe in the existence of God, and only five percent of them attend church. This same statistical analysis to numerous other Western countries. While it is true that Christianity is on the rise in Africa and Latin America, I suspect increased affluence, materialism, scientific advancement, and technology will, in time, reverse this trend. God is no match for modernity and the Internet. Perhaps God needs to start a website or a blog: “Hot Takes From Jesus.” Or maybe, “Babes for Jesus” would be better.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received a one-sentence email from Dawn Scarsella, a Roman Catholic, that said: I hope you find Jesus again. Six little words . . .
First, I didn’t know Jesus was lost. Christians spend their lives seeking Jesus and searching for truth. If, as Christians allege, the Holy Spirit (God) lives inside of every believer as their teacher and guide, why do Christians spend so much time seeking and searching for what they already have? Or, does this notion betray the fact that many (most?) Christians question and doubt the connection they have with Jesus; that far too often they don’t “feel” the presence of God; that despite the pep talks (aka sermons), sacraments, intense praise and worship sessions, and other spiritual cocaine, believers still feel empty inside.
Second, isn’t it God that saves sinners? Isn’t it God, through the work of the Holy Spirit, who regenerates and draws people to saving faith; and isn’t faith itself a gift from God, not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9)? Christians say that salvation is of the Lord, and no one can save themselves. If this is so, how can any mere mortal “seek” Jesus? If the Bible is indeed the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God and what it says about salvation is true, the only reason I haven’t “found” Jesus is because he is either hiding, I am a reprobate (Romans 1,2), or God has not regenerated me (given me spiritual life) and given me saving faith.
Third, it seems to me that if Jesus wants sinners to find him, he is doing a piss poor job of revealing himself to those who need him. Matt Dillahunty, the host of The Atheist Experience, and a consummate talk show host and debater, often speaks about the problem of God’s divine hiddenness. If, as Christians allege, God wants sinners to find him, why is he hidden to such a degree that there is little to no evidence for his existence? You would think that if God truly doesn’t want anyone to perish and wants every sinner to repent (2 Peter 2:9), that he would make himself known to everyone; that he would be Rudolph’s bright, shining red nose on a crisp, cold winter night. Instead, we are expected to peer into the night sky and read the pages of a contradictory ancient religious text, concluding that the Christian God exists; that Jesus is the virgin-born eternal son of God who came to earth, lived a sinless life, worked countless miracles, died on a Roman cross to atone for human sin, resurrected from the dead three days later, ascended back to Heaven, and will one day — we’ve been waiting 2,000 years — return to earth to judge humanity and create a new Heaven and a new Earth. Sure . . .
The sender of the aforementioned email also included a link to a picture by Thomas Blackshear:
The post where this picture is found describes it this way:
I love this picture of Jesus holding this man and cannot stop looking at it. It’s called Forgiven and it’s by Thomas Blackshear. For me, it so perfectly captures so much about who we are and Who He is. Our weakness and His strength. Our wretchedness and His glory. Our hopelessness and His faithfulness. Our sin and His love.
I assume the woman who emailed me agrees with this author’s sentiments about Jesus. If so, I am confused. She says to me, “I hope you find Jesus again,” yet the text with the picture says that humans are weak, wretched, and hopeless. How can I “seek” Jesus and “find” him if I am, in fact, hopeless and helpless? (John 15:5) If it is Jesus who must come to me, and not me come to him, isn’t it up to Jesus to seek me out and save me from sin and Hell? Jesus knows where I live. He knows my email address and cellphone number. I am ready and willing, Jesus. I want to hear from you, not Dawn Scarsella, Matt, an Orthodox Christian physician, or countless other God-botherers who leave comments, send emails, or write me letters (see other posts here and here). Supposedly, Jesus wants to marry me — the bridegroom and bride analogy. If this is so, I wish his Father would stop sending marriage brokers my way. Want my hand in marriage, Jesus? Want to make love to me? You know where I live. I am waiting.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Earlier today, I received an email from an Orthodox Christian physician located here in Ohio. For his sake, I won’t reveal his name, though I did Google him. He read all of one post, The Biggest Lies in the Bible: Ask and It Shall be Given to You and Seek and Ye Shall Find. After spending five minutes perusing my writing, the good doctor sent me the following email:
Hello my friend I read your post very carefully. I do believe that verse is quite difficult to understand ask and you shall receive seek and you shall find. You’ll notice that it’s repeated approximately six or seven times in the New Testament and at least three in the old. I would like to talk to you about this. I’m a physician by trade, but also and more importantly I’m an Orthodox Christian. I would welcome a conversation with you for [phone number redacted].
I replied,
[name redacted]
You do know that I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, that I have a theological education, that I preached over 4,000 sermons, and spent thousands and thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible? Surely, you bothered to understand my background before sending this email, right? Of course not. You read all of one post and then fired away. You might want to read Proverbs 18:13: He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.The Message translates Proverbs 18:13 this way: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
I am not your friend, though I realize you are using the word in a colloquial sense. You seem to think that I need educated, and that you are the one tasked by God for the project. Imagine a patient comes to see you for the first time, ignores your training and expertise, and tells you what his diagnosis is. You would be irritated and offended by such ignorant and boorish behavior.
The fact that you are a doctor is irrelevant. I suffer from gastroparesis (which is killing me), fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis. I have met scores of doctors over the years. While I trust these people with my medical care, I wouldn’t turn to them for advice or instruction on non-medical things. Why? Lack of expertise. Doc, all you have is a personal opinion/interpretation about a particular verse (verses) in the Bible. I have been blogging for almost fourteen years. Thousands — yes, thousands — of Christians have deigned to “educate” me about the Bible or pass judgment on my past/present life, including the fifty years I spent in the Christian church. So you will forgive me if I find your email irritating. I am sick, tired, and in pain — lots of pain. In the future, take time to learn about the targets of your evangelistic offers of education/friendship. Had you done so, you would have found out that I am not interested in engaging in such discussions.
Thank you.
Bruce Gerencser
Unbeknownst to me (my fault), Carolyn, my editor (who has been answering most contact emails for me) also responded to him. Here’s what she had to say:
Mr. [last name redacted],
Sorry — Bruce does not take or make telephone calls to readers. If you have something to communicate to him, you may email him just as you did today. But before you spew your biblical knowledge all over Bruce’s blog and email, please read Bruce’s Dear Evangelical page and his Why? page. Once you have read those and all the links therein, if you really, REALLY feel the need to write Bruce again, I promise you that he will read whatever it is you have to communicate to him. Right now, I am Bruce’s gatekeeper, answering emails for him because he is far behind on them and referring to him those that are worth his time. Your message is not.
Happy reading,
Carolyn [last name redacted], editor for Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
What follows is my response to your recent comment on this site. My response is indented and italicized.
Christian means Christ Like.
I assume you are an Evangelical Christian or what is commonly called a Biblical Christian. I assume you also believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God.
The word Christian is mentioned three times in the New Testament: Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16, and Acts 11:26. The Greek word for Christian (s) is Christianos, which means a follower of Christ, not Christ-like, as you allege. A Christian, then, is one who follows Jesus, not one who is like him. If, as Evangelicals believe, Jesus is God, is it not impossible for any Christian to be Christ-like? Further, one need only observe how Christians behave to know that if Christ is the standard for saving faith, no one is a Christian.
We are all anything but that. To strive to be Christ like means to lay aside our own foolish pride. Set aside our own differences. We are alike in that we all want to go to the heaven we have all heard of.
Are you not being prideful when you say that you have something that I don’t have, that Christians are headed for Heaven, while Bruce Gerencser, atheists, agnostics, and other unbelievers are headed for Hell?
You assume that I want to go to Heaven. Why would I want to spend eternity in a place overrun with smug, arrogant, self-righteous people who spent their lives on Earth causing division and harm? You say we should set aside our differences, but you really mean that everyone should believe in Jesus as you do. The goal, is it not, is conversion, rather than understanding and mutual agreement?
Going against the word of God is like pushing the tides of the ocean; futile.
This is only true IF one believes the Bible is a supernatural book. I don’t. I once believed as you do. However, once the Bible lost its authority, power, and control over me, I was then free to determine what my beliefs really were and how I wanted to live my life.
We need to focus on the things at hand. I do not wish ill of any person, but neither am I likely to follow just anyone.
The problem, Matt, is that you think your life and experiences are the measures of what should be the “focus on the things at hand.” In your mind, Jesus is the end-all, all that matters. However, I am an atheist. Jesus is a man who died 2,000 years ago, end of story. I categorically reject the claims Christians and their Bible make for Jesus.
I daily struggle with serious health problems. I can safely say that I am dying, that sooner rather than later, I will be no more. It is certainly possible that I could live for years, but I doubt it. My body tells me that I am running out of time. Believing this to be true, I choose to focus on what matters to me: my wife of 42 years, my six grown children and their spouses, my thirteen grandchildren, writing, traveling, and watching/listening to the Cincinnati Reds. I have no time for God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, or God-botherers. The only reason I am answering your comment is that I hope my answer will be instructive or helpful to readers of this blog.
I believe in the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I believe that he died and was raised from death on the third day. Not only because of my faith but also logic. Romans had every chance to debunk this as they searched high and low for the man that miraculously disappeared. Pontius Pilate had every reason to find the man that he never could. The most powerful man in the region was in dire straights trying find Jesus after his death, but never could even at the amount of men at his disposal searching.
What evidence do you have for these claims? I have ready EVERY historical reference for Jesus, and not one of them mentions these things. The Romans didn’t have to look for Jesus. They knew exactly where he was — in a tomb. You have no direct historical evidence for the empty tomb. The gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus by unknown authors. At best, these authors wrote down oral stories that had been passed down. At worst, they made shit up. How do you know which is true?
You claim Jesus resurrected from the dead. You think Jesus’ empty tomb is proof that he resurrected from the dead. However, there are other explanations, one that is even mentioned in the Bible. Perhaps, Jesus’ followers removed his body from his tomb and buried it somewhere else. Or perhaps the Romans did. Are not both of these possibilities more likely than Jesus magically resurrecting from the dead? All the available evidence tells us that dead people stay dead. Claiming that a book says a dead man resurrected from the dead doesn’t work for me. You will have to provide better evidence if you want me to believe that Jesus is still alive. How about Jesus making a personal appearance — anywhere? It’s been 2,000 years since anyone has seen Jesus. I think we can safely assume that he is dead and he ain’t coming to the family picnic.
I do not try to hate nor do I try to condemn. it is not my place to say where each one will go at the end of his time. I can say though that Jesus dealt with love not with hate. He loved the prostitute as much as the disciple, and was seen cleaning the feet from the apostles. He was a servant not acting as a worldly king, but as a divine king of the most high.
Matt, please be honest. You are a “Bible-believer.” You believe the words of the Bible came straight from the mouth of God. Thus, you know exactly where I am going when I die, right? Don’t hem and haw, own your abhorrent theology. Quit trying to paint yourself in a good light. You think anyone who doesn’t believe as you do will go to Hell when they die; that they will face eternal punishment for their sins. If I told you I was going to torture my children every day of their lives, all because they believe differently from me, would you consider me a good father? Of course not. In fact, you would call law enforcement and report me for criminal behavior. Yet, your God daily tortures billions of people and plans to torture billions more after they die. Pray tell, what kind of Father is your God? Why would anyone want to worship such an abominable deity?
It is so easy being among others saying that you do not believe. However in the dark of night being alone, how confident are you of your own mortality?
Are you not in the majority — those who believe in the existence of God? It is easy to believe in God, especially in the United States. Nothing is required of you. Your faith costs you nothing except an hour or two on Sundays and the shekels you toss in the offering plate.
People gather at sites like this because they are part of a small, often marginalized community. Try walking in atheists’ shoes before suggesting that in the still of the night we believe differently from what we do in the day. Besides, even if what you say is true, do not Christians do the same? What do Christians ponder in the dark of night? Where’s God? Why is God silent? Why, why, why? Existential questions are part of the fabric of human existence.
We all contemplate those times when by ourselves we wonder what will happen. If you feel that going into the abyss of darkness at the end of your life then what are you living for? IF there is no rhyme or reason to life then what is the purpose?
I don’t wonder about what will happen. I am sixty-three years old. I am sick, broken down, and nearing the end of life. I know EXACTLY what awaits me: death and nothingness.
You seem to suggest that non-Christians should kill themselves because they have nothing to live for. In your mind, this life is just preparation for the life to come. Perhaps you should ask yourself what YOU are living for? A mansion in Heaven? Deliverance from sin? Separation from unbelievers? Day and night worship of God? Is this what your life has been reduced to?
I have much to live for: my beautiful wife, my wonderful children, my awesome grandchildren, finishing my train layout, planting new trees/bushes, traveling to new places, eating good food, watching the Reds and Bengals, writing for this blog, finishing my book, finally publishing my first podcast, and most of all, having bowel movements that are not constipation or diarrhea. Not throwing up would be nice, too, as would making it to the bathroom without embarrassing myself.
God wants to hear from you, and wants you not to rely on yourself but Him.
If God wants to hear from me, he knows where I live. He also has my email address and cellphone number.
Question? Why did you leave this comment? To quote Astreja, “If your god wants to hear from us, mortal, then it bloody well needs to come talk to us in person instead of sending human messenger boys like you.”
Remember that being a Christian is not going to be easy, nor is it going to be without sacrifice. We all give up something to gain something more. We have to keep moving forward and keep his commandments. Loving one another is the greatest of all commandments.
Have you read my story? If you have, you know I sacrificed everything for Jesus for most of my adult life. I now know that I sacrificed my life, marriage, children, economic well-being, and health for a lie. I have lived life on both sides of this discussion. I can tell you that I am happy with where I am today — pain and suffering aside. Why would I ever want to return to the garlic and leeks of Christianity? Why would I ever want to return to the chains of bondage? No thanks. You have nothing to offer me, Matt. I am not sure what you hoped to gain by leaving this comment, other than hearing yourself talk or putting a good word in for Jesus. What possibly could you say that I have not heard (or preached) countless times before? How did you fail to understand that people like me are not prospects for Heaven, that we have no interest in what you are peddling? Yet, you commented anyway.
We live by example, we show others the way to live and love not hate. Nobody in the Bible is without sin other than Jesus. Even when we stumble he is there to pick us up. We have only to ask. Knock and the door will be opened.
Ask yourself, Matt, what example have you left for the people who will read this post? What in your behavior emulates Jesus and makes Christianity appealing to unbelievers? Can you not see that your comment comes off as little more than an Evangelical Christian masturbating in public? Your comment might have made you feel good, but all it did for me and the readers of this blog — people who know the Bible inside out, many of whom were pastors, missionaries, evangelists, and fervent believers — is remind us that Evangelical Christians are narcissists who just love to hear themselves talk. Your comment comes off as a sermon, not an honest interaction with a former follower of Jesus.
Bruce, a sinner SAVED by Reason
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical Christian man by the name of Mike Keenan sent me the following email today:
I have read your testimony and if what you said is true, then you are saved no matter what you do, say or now currently believe, You are sealed and sanctified by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You cannot be “Unsaved.” However because you no longer show any fruit of the Spirit and that is highly evident, you will almost certainly lose all your rewards, but you can and will never lose your inheritance which is eternal life as an adopted son of God.
You are saved Bruce and you can be anything you want to be, but if your Testimony is true then you are a brother in Christ and you always will be no matter what you classify yourself as or what you now believe.
According to Keenan, if what I say about my past and present life is true, then I am still a bought-by-the-blood, filled-with-the Holy-Ghost Christian; that there is nothing I can say or do to change this fact. I could be a serial murderer, rapist, child molester, or Donald Trump supporter — it matters not. According to Keenan, the Evangelical man who recently murdered eight people in Atlanta is still a Christian; he’s still an adopted, redeemed, and sanctified son of God who will go to Heaven after he dies. Once a person prays the sinner’s prayer and really, really, really believes in Jesus, he is forever a child of God. There is nothing he can ever do to change his eternal destination. In Baptist parlance, this is called once-saved-always-saved. No matter what evil a saved person may do, he still gets to go to Heaven when he dies. (And as side note, no matter what evil a saved person may do, the Holy Spirit (God) who lives inside of him does nothing but watch — the ultimate voyeur.)
According to Keenan, I will inherit my dad’s house when I die, but there will be no furnishings. I will spend eternity in Heaven, but will not have any of the “rewards” True Christians likes Keenan have. Evidently, God is a “what have you done for me lately?” kind of deity. I spent fifty years in the Christian church. I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I spent eighty-percent of my life worshiping and serving Jesus, yet because I have spent the past twelve years talking shit about my dad and older brother, HeyZeus, when the will is read, I will receive nothing but a bare lot of land along the River of Life. Figures, Dad always favored my brother. I just knew he would get the Ford Pinto and the train collection.
Keenan says that it is “highly evident” that I no longer show any fruit of the Spirit. Is this true? Keenan doesn’t know me, yet he deems himself qualified to render judgment on my character and the quality of my life. I know, I know, typical judgmental Evangelical. However, the Bible makes it clear that Keenan errs in his judgment of me. Galatians 5:22-23 says:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Seems to me, on most days, I still have the fruit of the Spirit. I am, by all accounts, still fruity. I am not perfect, only my brother is — or so he says, anyway — but I do try to be the kind of person described in the aforementioned verses. Temperance and longsuffering do trip me up at times, but hey, Jesus was quite temperamental with Mom at the Wedding at Cana (John 2:1-12) — and no one holds that against him — so I should get a pass too. And besides, I know stuff that HeyZeus did that nobody but me (not even Dad) knows about. HeyZeus is NOT the perfect son everyone thinks he is.
Keenan tells me that I can be anything that I want to be. Wow, I sure am glad I have his permission to do so. I want to be stripper. Imagine my gig at the local strip club. “Santa Takes it All Off.” And just think, no matter how many women (and men) lust after me, I still get to go to Heaven when I die. What an amazing theology. Pray a prayer, have a momentary “experience,” spend the rest of your life in debauchery, and when you die you go to Heaven. What’s not to like, right? Well, except for the fact that there will be Evangelicals in Heaven. Definitely, a bad neighborhood.
I wonder if Keenan and other believers like him will be jealous and envious when they see the vile atheist Christian Bruce lounging by the River of Life in his speedo, their minds filled with all the fun stuff they didn’t get to do while on Earth? But, hey, they will receive their rewards, which are, according to the Bible, crowns (Crown of Life, Incorruptible Crown, Crown of Righteousness, Crown of Glory, Crown of Rejoicing) that they will cast at the feet of HeyZeus. Sure sounds like Hell for Keenan.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A Christian woman by the name of Merry Lily Bradley sent me the following email over the weekend:
It is notable that you are still peddling your beliefs and welcoming donations, just like so many Christian preachers. You are cashing-in on so-called knowledge.
Jesus did not save the lost in order to line your pockets, give you business, and build your prestige as a great garu [sic].
Normally, I ignore such comments or tell the person to fuck off. However, today I thought I would respond to Bradley’s uncharitable comments. In the United States alone, there are 380,000 churches, most of them funded through collections and donations. Many of these congregations are pastored by men and women who either earn a full-time or part-time living from their churches. They directly benefit from preaching the gospel and teaching the Bible. Yet, if an Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist makes money off telling his story and critiquing Evangelicalism, somehow it’s “cashing in.”
Bradley is implying that it is inappropriate for me to earn income from this blog. Doesn’t the Bible says that the “laborer is worthy of his hire?” Why is remunerated pastoral labor okay, but not mine?
I have been blogging since 2007. I have never one time pleaded or begged for money — as Evangelical preachers often do. I have never threatened to stop writing if readers don’t shower me with donations. The extent of my fundraising is the Patreon and PayPal links on the sidebar and at the bottom of each post. If people are inclined to donate, fine; if not, I plan to keep on writing, regardless. When I started blogging almost fourteen years ago, I determined that I would pay all the costs associated for operating this site. This remains true today.
In 2020, this site generated $2,800. Hosting and domain expenses through Flywheel and Name Cheap totaled $1,300, leaving me an income before taxes of $1,500 ($29 a week). I also have to pay federal income tax, social security tax, Ohio income tax, Ohio school tax, and local income tax on the money earned after expenses.
As you can see, I am fabulously rich from blogging. But let’s assume that I was making a full-time living from my writing. Why is that wrong, or in some way unethical or immoral? Why does Bradley and other Christians like her condemn me for doing what takes place in their churches every Sunday?
Bradley’s second paragraph is incoherent to me. Jesus’ atonement on the cross doesn’t have anything to do with my writing, save when I mention it from time to time. Wouldn’t it be pastors, evangelists, and missionaries who are profiting from Jesus’ death; that it is preachers who are lining their pockets and becoming famous thanks to Jesus?
Perhaps Bradley is upset because she thinks I am “famous” or that some readers view me as a “garu.” On the latter, I can assure you that I am not, in any way, a guru. People don’t hang on my every word. All I am is one man with a story to tell. That my writing resonates with an increasing number of people is not my fault. Most writers I know want as many people as possible to read their work. That I have been “blessed” with a widely read blog is encouraging and certainly motivates me to continue writing. The more eyes that are reading this blog, the better. Whether this one day makes me “famous” remains to be seen. Sure, I am well-known in some atheist or Christian circles, but I am no Sam Harris, Bart Ehrman, or Matt Dillahunty. I am content to be who and what I am. If wealth and fame come my way, so be it.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from a young Independent Fundamentalist Baptist man (IFB) named Nate Lesmeister. My response is italicized and indented:
Hello Mr. Gerencser, thank you for reading my email. I just wanted to ask you a quick favor. Please stop writing such negative articles about independent fundamental Baptist churches.
I grew up in the IFB church movement, attended an IFB college in the 1970s, married an IFB preacher’s daughter, and pastored IFB and other Evangelical churches for 25 years. I visited countless IFB churches, preached for numerous IFB pastors, and attended/preached at IFB conferences and preacher’s meetings for years.
My wife’s family is littered with IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and their spouses. I continue daily to follow and read IFB blogs and websites, even though what I read sickens me. I can safely say that I am an expert when it comes to the IFB church movement. And journalists and reporters think so too. I am regularly contacted for input, background, or comment on IFB stories.
Maybe Lesmeister doesn’t know these things, but he should. I have made it very easy for readers to find out about my background. I have led the proverbial horse to water, but it’s up to the horse to drink.
Are there some messed-up, awful people within the movement? Yes! However, although you may be sincere in simply wanting to point out the bad folks, you’re also hurting a lot of good ones. The majority of pastors and members of IFB churches truly love God and just want to do what’s right.
Let me be crystal clear, the IFB church movement is a cult. Some of the cultists are nicer than others, but that doesn’t change the fact that they psychologically, and, at times, physically harm people. This blog has provided ample evidence to back up the claim that the IFB church movement is a cult.
I have no doubt that many IFB preachers are “good” people and want to do what is “right.” I was one such man for many years. But, regardless of their “goodness,” these men of God teach, preach, and practice harmful, hateful, and dangerous beliefs.
Over the past 12 years, I have received hundreds and hundreds of emails from IFB preachers, pastor’s wives, and congregants who have been seriously harmed by the IFB church movement. Beliefs have consequences.
Worse, thousands of IFB zealots have emailed me or left comments on this blog that can best be described as vile and hateful. These “loving” people you speak of have attacked me personally, attacked my wife, and said despicable things about my children and grandchildren. Nice people? I think not!
I have gone to an IFB church my entire life, two in Minnesota and one in Kentucky, all them had loving, kind pastors who were not the “control freaks” that you seem to paint all IFB preachers to be. The majority of their church members were extremelly gracious in their speech and many times I would here a first-time guest say something like, “This is the friendliest church I’ve ever been to.”
I have done enough research on you to know that you are a young guy in his 20s. You have attended all of three IFB churches in your lifetime, and have only been old enough to make critical judgments about your tribe for a few years. I have attended more IFB churches in a week than you have attended in your lifetime. My advice to you is that you need to get out more and critically survey the broad spectrum of the IFB church movement. And then run!
Not all of us are like the weird, crazy, heretical, money-grabbing, numbers-driven group that you paint us out to be. Whether you mean to or not, you often give the impression that all IFB churches are followers of Steven Anderson, Phil Kidd, or some other crazy “pastor”.
I have never said that all IFB churches are “followers of Steven Anderson, Phil Kidd, or some other crazy “pastor.” I can, however, say with confidence, that IFB churches and pastors tend to be quite tribal; that churches often fellowship around particular IFB colleges or fellowship groups; that these tribes have chiefs that are considered the stars of their tribes.
You came to this site via a Bing search for Phil Kidd. Why? You viewed two posts about Kidd, did a search for Steven Anderson, read several pages, including the ABOUT page. You did not, however, read any of my autobiographical work, yet you deemed yourself sufficiently educated enough to pass judgment on my motives. This is, by the way, typical IFB behavior.
Evidently, your inspired, inerrant, infallible, King James Bible is missing Proverbs 18:13:
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
I do not mean to be unkind or rude. I simply want to ask that you please stop hurting the thousands of honest, well-meaning people in our type of churches. Even if you disagree with our theology, no one can say that we don’t love people and mean well.
How can you possibly know that I am “hurting thousands of honest, well-meaning people” in IFB churches? What evidence do you have for this claim? In fact, I have helped countless IFB preachers, pastor’s wives, deacons, evangelists, missionaries, and congregants leave the IFB church movement. Some have even become atheists and agnostics, while others have moved on to kinder, friendlier expressions of Christianity.
My goal as a former IFB preacher and a critic of the IFB church movement is to expose the movement for what it is: a cult. IFB churches and colleges are declining numerically and financially, and many of the IFB megachurches of the 70s and 80s are now closed or are shells of what they once were. While I won’t be alive to see the death of the IFB church movement, I hope my children and grandchildren will. I hope they will, with pillows in hand, stand over the wheezing, dying body of the IFB church and hold their pillows over its face as it draws its last breath. To that I will say, from the grave, “mission accomplished. All praise be to reason!”
I encourage you to leave the IFB church movement as soon as possible. Don’t wait five decades like I did to extract yourself from the cult. Don’t wait until deep, lasting psychological harm has been done to you, your spouse, and your children. Run! Now!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following passive-aggressive email from an Evangelical man:
Why would anyone devote so much time and space in their coversations, writings and blogs to a Jesus which didn’t exist as evangelicals claim and to a heaven and hell which were man made? Thinking Jesus is real and he lives rent free in your head. After reading your stuff it seems you’re not free at all – you traded one bondage for another.. Your writing makes you seem bitter and angry… not how I’d like to spend my last days. Ex-Christians are the worst of all people. But hey… go enjoy another double cheese burger… Cheers!
This man read one post about Donald Trump Bible (that’s revealing), along with several other pages. He did not read any of my autobiographical writing. Yet, in just a few minutes, he learned all he needs to know about my life. Evidently, this man’s Bible is missing Proverbs 18:13:
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Should I explain to this man that I am neither angry or bitter? Nah, I have done this repeatedly. Right now, I am sick. I mean really, really sick. I am trying to hang on until Friday when I will have procedures done that will hopefully find why I am having abdominal pain, bleeding internally, and have no appetite. I have pretty much stopped eating, and I weigh less today than I did in 1991. So, with all this going on in my life, I really don’t have time to be angry/bitter with God — which deity? — or self-righteous, arrogant Evangelicals. If I survive this ordeal, maybe I will feel well enough to tell Jesus to piss off.
Should I explain to this man that my objection is to modern religious beliefs and practices, and not the man Jesus? Nah, I have done this repeatedly. Why would I bother with a man who has been dead for 2,000 years, or bother with a deity that is a myth? No, my issue is with humans who, in the name of Jesus/God/Christianity/the Bible, psychologically and physically harm other people; who attempt to use their religious beliefs to control others.
The only bondage I am into these days is BDSM. Silly, I know. But hey, if I am in “bondage” . . . let me try something new. Bring on the whips and nipple clips.
And then there is the double cheeseburger comment. Evangelicals just can’t leave my weight alone, can they? This man must be jealous that I have such a svelte, sexy body and he doesn’t. And he must know about the notion that if you lose a lot of weight (100#) your penis gets bigger. Move on over John Holmes, Santa takes over first place in the Big Dick Standings! For the record, I don’t eat double meat on anything (I’m not gay), and I never put cheese on my hamburgers. I mean, NEVER!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I recently received an email from a bought-by-the-blood, King-James- Only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) man by the name of Lester Rees. My response to Rees is indented.
I read your story on this website about how the big bad world dealt you some crappy cards and all.
Wow, an Evangelical who can read. I suppose it is too much for me to expect Rees to actually comprehend my writing.
I don’t believe I have ever described earth as a “big bad world.” Rees must confuse my writing with that found in the Bible and that which is preached Sunday after Sunday in Evangelical churches. Is it not Evangelicals who believe the “world” is wicked, sinful, and ruined by Adam and Eve’s fall into sin? Isn’t it the Protestant Christian Bible that says the “world” is vile; that Evangelicals are not to love the things of the “world?”
I don’t believe I have ever described my life as one where I was “dealt crappy cards.” Through this blog, I try to give a thoughtful, honest accounting of my life — warts and all. I will leave it to readers to determine the quality of my past and present life.
Guess what? Life and people have dealt me some crappy cards as well.
Rees tries to make a connection with me by saying life and people have dealt him some crappy card too. But Rees is on his own on the “crappy cards” end. Live long enough, and you are going to have wounds and scars from the people, institutions, and things you have experienced. That I have faced a lot of pain, suffering, trauma, and loss in my life is just how it is. Rees, instead of being a decent human being, chooses instead to diminish or dismiss the difficulties I have experienced over the past 63 years. Why? Jesus.
Has that made my faith in the Lord diminish? On the contrary, it has made my faith in God much stronger.
We now come to Rees’ “look at my big dick” moment. For Evangelicals such as Rees, Jesus is Viagra. Life has brought him trials and adversity too, but one tablet of Jesus Viagra has made him stronger than that pathetic, weak atheist, Bruce Gerencser.
Seeing how most people live, including those who’ve done me wrong and comparing that with God’s way, I am even more convinced now that there is a God.
It seems Rees doesn’t like his fellow humans, especially those who have “harmed” him. This is strange, by the way, since Jesus commands Christians to love those who hate them; to materially help people who are their enemies. Jesus commands Rees to love his neighbors, even if they are atheists, Muslims, or Democrats. I will leave it to readers to decide whether Rees truly loves his neighbors as himself; if his words reflect a man who loves Jesus and the teachings of the Bible.
I don’t live my life anymore in hopes of gaining anything of this world or the love of people. I don’t care about any of that at all. I live to serve the Lord and realize that my riches are laid up for me after I die. The things that most who are of this world care about the most are very vain and shallow things. I despise & reject them.
I don’t believe for a moment that Rees doesn’t “live [his] life anymore in hopes of gaining anything of this world or the love of people.” I suspect that Rees, materially, has a house, land, automobile, dog/cat/hampster, and all the trappings of American consumerism. I don’t know of one Christian who resolutely lives according to Jesus’ teachings about how to live one’s life and about material possessions. Rees talks a good line, but I am certain that he is not living in a refrigerator box, wearing one set of clothes, and giving all his money away to the poor, widows, and orphans.
And that’s okay. We only have this one life to live. Does not the wisest man in the Bible, Solomon, that we should eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; that we should enjoy the fruits of our labor?
You probably think you are soooo edgy being an atheist and all. You are not that, let me tell you.
I don’t believe I have ever called myself “edgy,” — nor have readers of this blog. Open? Honest? Transparent? Sarcastic? Funny? Sure. But “edgy?” That’s really not my style. That said, if I had any thought of being “edgy,” Rees has sure put me in my place, right?
Job, who went through even worse things than you have gone through, kept his belief in the Lord and he was rewarded by God in the end. Even if I get no rewards in this life for my firm stand I have as a Christian, so be it. I’ll get them after I die. Praise be His name!
First, we have no evidence that the story of Job is about an actual person. In fact, an honest reading of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, shows that the story of Job is a fictional work. Does Rees have any evidence for his claim that Job is a real person? Of course not. He just believes this to be true, because it is in the Bible. Well, there’s a lot of bad shit in the Bible. Perhaps Rees would like to talk with me about these things; about the nature and history of the Bible; about whether the Bible is what Evangelicals claim it is.
Second, I don’t believe for a moment that Rees isn’t interested in “rewards” in this life. I know Christians are supposed to say that, but how they live suggests that they are very much interested in material and personal gain, Religious platitudes lack honesty. We know that Evangelicals are no different from the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. We know that Evangelicals enjoy the fruits of American capitalism and Mastercard and Visa. Rees might be able to convince the uninitiated that he is some sort of “special” Christian, but those of us who spent years intimately connected to Evangelicalism know better.
Third, Rees says that he is taking a “firm” stand for God/Jesus. There’s that Viagra reference again. What does it mean to take a “firm stand for Jesus”? Would Rees like to compare dick sizes with me? I suspect he will find that I, too, lived a rock-hard life for Jesus; that I devoted most of my life to loving and following after the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. The difference between us is that I am honest about my true self; I am willing to forthrightly account for my life. Few Evangelicals are inclined to do this. Instead, what matters is outward appearance; looking the part. That’s why it is so easy to pretend to be a Christian. Dress a certain way, use the right lingo, behave publicly as Evangelicals do, and in short order everyone will think you really love Jesus. I know Rees thinks it is hard to be a good Christian, but it’s not. Sorry, acting like an Evangelical really isn’t that hard.
Rees believes that he will receive some sort of divine payoff after he dies — which is theologically incorrect. When Rees dies, he will be buried in a grave, and will remain there until Jesus comes to earth and resurrects him from the dead, Then, and only then, will Rees be judged by God and rewarded accordingly.
Let me conclude my reply to Rees with the advice I give on the ABOUT page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Some day, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
