Over the weekend, an Australian Evangelical man by the name of Richard left the following comment on the post titled Dear Jesus. My response is indented and italicized.
I stumbled on to your website and man, I would have lost my faith ten times over!!.
What did you actually read on this site? Did you break anything when you stumbled? The Dear Jesus post primarily deals with the problem of evil and suffering, told from an intimate, personal perspective. If you want to understand my story in its entirety, please read the posts on the WHY? page.
I appreciate your recognition of the fact that I had a difficult and traumatic upbringing. One of your fellow Christian apologists, Mike Kuvakos, took a different approach, choosing instead to tell me, “get over it.”
That said, the primary reasons for my deconversion are intellectual, not emotional. Despite all the trauma mentioned in the Dear Jesus post, I remained a committed follower of Jesus Christian until age fifty. If past trauma was going to derail my faith, this would have happened years ago. Instead, I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years, leaving the ministry in 2005, and leaving Christianity in 2008.
If asked to give the primary reasons I left Christianity, I typically say:
1) I no longer believed the Bible was inerrant and infallible
2) I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity were true
3) Christianity no longer made sense to me
Secondarily, I concluded that Christianity had no persuasive arguments for:
1) The problem of evil
2) The problem of suffering
3) The hiddenness of God
I lost my faith for many years (for lesser things) suffered violence and poverty, had nothing, lost everything. I was bitter with God for his failures , the hypocrisy of the pastors, the immorality of church leaders, the molesters and the thieves, but now I believe again. He reached out to me and brought me back.
I get it, God/Jesus/Christianity works for you. You find meaning, purpose, and direction in your faith. I, however, find the opposite. My life is better in every way post-Jesus. I have learned that I don’t need God/Jesus/faith to have meaning and purpose in my life. A good life is possible without Jesus. I humbly suggest you give it a try.
You see, we cannot run away, we will eventually go back, there is nothing else in this world that is better than Him, no matter how we see and rationalize the failures.
Running away implies that I am trying to avoid something — I’m not. You seem to think I am wrongly rationalizing what I consider faults and failures within the structure of Christianity. However, I have honestly and opening weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. Do you think it was easy for me to walk away from Christianity; to walk away from the ministry; to walk away from that which I held precious and dear for fifty years? I can tell you this: divorcing Jesus was painful and traumatic — even to this day. Yet, after carefully studying and investigating the central claims of Christianity, I had no choice but to say that I no longer believed. You see, truth matters to me. I couldn’t go on believing things that I knew were lies.
I know he will call you back, you don’t have to go, He will come. As you, you will believe when He comes, I am sure he will. You are a man of truth and God will honour you.
Richard, how do you know your peculiar version of God will call me back to himself? Has God told you this? Or do you just “hope” God will reclaim me? I hope for all sorts of things: the Reds winning the World Series, the Bengals winning the Super Bowl, me winning $1,000,000 in a vax-a-million lotto, my unrelenting pain to miraculously disappear. I can hope for these things to happen, but facts, reason, logic, and probabilities tell me that there is little chance that any of these “hopes” will occur in 2021-2022. I didn’t say “no chance.” Our family has nine entries left in a vax-a-million lotto. Maybe, just maybe, one of us will hear, “winner, winner, chicken dinner.”
I “could” become a Christian again. Perhaps, my conclusions about God, Christianity, and the Bible will be overthrown by overwhelming evidence to the contrary. However, thirteen years in, no Christian has provided such evidence to me, yourself included. Thousands of Christian zealots have tried to win me back to Jesus, without success. Thus, I highly doubt that sufficient evidence is forthcoming, and I am sure I will remain an atheist until I die. And then? I will be a dead atheist. 🙂
Further, I could be a reprobate or an apostate — someone who has crossed the line of no return (Romans 1). Many Christian apologists believe there is no hope for me, that I have a sinful, darkened heart and have done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29). My advice to you is that you focus on low-hanging fruit — people more likely to buy what you are selling. I am not such a person.
It’s possible that you believe that God is letting me wander for a time, and someday he will draw me back to himself. Sure, that’s possible, I suppose. However, I don’t believe God exists. If, by chance, I am wrong, then God, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit know exactly where I live. This three-headed supernatural Marvel superhero can stop by my house, email me, or send me a text. Why has it not done so? Instead of dealing with me directly, God sends the Richards of the world — thousands of them. Why is that? Why can’t God speak for himself?
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
No matter how many times I tell people that I am not a Christian, I have no interest in Christianity, and there is a less-than-zero chance that I will return to Christianity, some Evangelicals remain convinced that I am either a backslidden Christian or I harbor deep in my heart of hearts (wherever the hell that is) the desire to return to Christianity. Dealing with such people remains one of my biggest frustrations, mainly because they refuse to hear what I am saying and accept the telling of my story at face value.
Several years ago, one Evangelical man said that he just knew that I was still a Christian because I capitalized the words God and Bible in my writing. Other Evangelicals read my writing and see in it a man who still wants to believe in God and reclaim his faith. For the life of me, I can’t figure out what they think they see. I told one man that he misunderstood how and why I write. My use of Evangelical verbiage and argumentation often leads people to think I am still a Christian, when, in fact, all I am doing is using language that readers, both current and former Evangelicals, are familiar with. I have found that this approach is quite effective in reaching Evangelicals where they are. My use of common Evangelical words reflects not only my long, deep immersion in that culture, but also my desire to engage Evangelicals on their own turf. The fact that I mention particular Evangelical beliefs should not be construed by anyone as me wanting to return to Christianity. I don’t.
Some Evangelicals take a psychotherapy approach, divining from my writing that I have some sort of deeply hidden desire to still be a Christian. I know that many Evangelicals think they have the “supernatural” gift of discernment, but I am here to tell them, as I once heard an old-time preacher say, that their discerner is broke. When I mention that I can understand how someone might come to believe a deistic sort of God created the universe, Evangelicals read into it that I have some sort of longing to believe in God. I don’t. All I am saying is that I understand how someone might come to a different conclusion from mine.
I am not sure what more I can do to help Evangelicals understand that I am the proverbial horse who has left the barn — I ain’t coming back. Perhaps I concern myself too much with obtuse Evangelicals who refuse to accept things as they are. I get it. Bruce Gerencser returning to the fold would be a big story, and the Christians involved in my reclamation would be rewarded and praised for bringing such a hard case back to God. However, this is never going to happen. Even if I were inclined to reconsider some sort of religious belief, it most certainly would not be Evangelical Christianity. That ship sailed and fell off the end of the earth. Once free of the cult, why would I ever want to return?
When Christians share their conversion stories, I accept what they say at face value. I don’t believe, for a moment, that a God “saved” them or that they were “sinners” in need of “saving,” but I do accept that their stories are, to them, real and meaningful. I am not an atheist evangelist out to convert Evangelicals to atheism. In the thirteen years since I deconverted, I have, not one time, attempted to turn a Christian into an atheist. I have, however, engaged and talked with hundreds of Evangelicals who have questions and doubts about Christianity. I try to give them the facts their pastors often hide from them out of fear that, if they told the truth about the Bible, the pews would empty overnight. When asked, I share my story, much like Christians do during testimony time at their church. I am just one man with a story to tell. That my story resonates with thousands of people is not my fault. Perhaps Evangelical church leaders should take a close look at their beliefs and practices and how these things are causing people to abandon their churches, and, in many cases, their faith.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, a Christian psychologist named Mike Kuvakos left the following comment on the post Dear Jesus. My response is indented and italicized.
Couple of questions arise. You didn’t mention whether you believe in God, you know, as an entity in himself and if not, why?
I have been writing for this blog iteration since December 2014 — 4,000+ posts (3.5 million words). You read all of two posts before leaving this comment. Had you bothered to click on the WHY? page, you might have learned a bit (okay, a lot) more about me. Instead, you read two posts.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. So, yes, I believed in God, specifically the Christian deity.
I’m your age and maturity does make you realize in the gifts of plants, trees, miraculous medicines developed from ecology that some kind of supreme being has a hand in the cycles in life. Or do you think these things just happen. I don’t think I could make a donation from that kind of viewpoint.
My age (an objective statement) and maturity (a subjective statement) have led me to far different conclusions about the universe, our planet, and our biological world from yours. I put my “faith” in science, not a fallible, contradictory ancient religious text. I am no scientist, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I trust the explanations for our world given by trained experts in the various scientific fields. In other words, I know what I don’t know. Unfortunately, religion often makes people think they are “experts,” when, in fact, they are not.
Science tells how our world began — no God needed. What happened before the Big Bang no one knows. Asserting that a God who exists outside of time and space created everything is not supported by the current understanding of the universe. Maybe there is some sort of divine creator, but we don’t know. You don’t know, and neither do I. So, we base our understanding of the universe on what evidence we do have. If you have evidence for the claim that your peculiar God created everything, please provide it. Quoting the Bible is not evidence.
Of course, things “just happen.” We are surrounded by randomness. Much of our lives are governed by chance and luck. That said, I suspect you mean something different by “just happen.” Please clarify.
You are a Christian, so you believe that “some kind of supreme being” created everything. One might argue that a deistic God of some sort created everything, but I have yet to see persuasive evidence for the claim that this creator God is the God of the Christian Bible.
As far as donating, please, please, please donate. My family is starving, and I desperately need donations from people who show no interest in my writing. (That’s sarcasm, by the way.) Feel free to donate, or not. Whether you donate will not affect the content of my writing.
Also, I’m interested in reading some of your site’s content (I AM a Christian).
Please read Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait. Reading only two posts tells me that you aren’t really that interested. And I AM an atheist. Not sure why you felt the need to capitalize “am.” Emphasis noted.
The biggest disagreement is that you really don’t provide a reason for your new found disbelief. I assume it’s all-the-above. I’m also a psychologist by trade and can tell you – that’s the dumbest reason in not believing in anything. You’ve had a tough time growing up. Join the list, friend.
Actually, I have provided numerous reasons for why I am an atheist. Again, please read the WHY? page. Seek, and ye shall find.
Newfound disbelief? Uh, I deconverted in November 2008 — almost thirteen years ago. Because of your laziness, you failed to learn anything about me. Had you bothered to investigate, you would never have said that the reason for my deconversion was “all of the above.” Do your homework, and then we will talk.
Thank you for your passive-aggressive comment: “you’ve had a tough time growing up. Join the list, friend.” In other words, “get over it.” Evidently, you missed the class lecture on empathy and understanding. You, my friend, are an asshole.
And as far as the Bengals are concerned, I’ve been a sports psychologist for many years and I can tell you with complete assuredness that there are several teams in sports who purposely lose (until the odds for these athletic teams get odds of 500 to 1 against their winning a Super Bowl in Vegas). Their owners acquire collegiate players who are notorious for willingly selling out their performances to wealthy owners like Robert Kraft of the Patriot’s who can buy off these cheating players and can make big extra money in betting in Las Vegas. You think these multi-million dollar salaries come from fans and TV? Look-up in the stands. You see anyone there totaling the 200-500 million dollar contracts? When they get three or four cornerbacks willing to make it look like they’re slipping and sliding while covering the opposition’s receivers the games are pretty well lost, wouldn’t you say? In the meantime – owners put down money bets you yourself couldn’t imagine. Or do you think that a genius like Joe Namath could really give a guarantee his team would win the Super Bowl years ago. There is a lot more involved in this than I told you but I don’t have the time.
For readers who may not understand what this commenter is saying, he is responding to me saying this in the Dear Jesus post:
“Always silent, Jesus. Why is that?
If you ever want to talk to me, you know where I live. Show up at my door, Jesus, and that will be a miracle I can believe in. Better yet, if you can help the Cincinnati Bengals win their last six games, well, I just might rethink your existence. Not going to happen, I know. The Bengals are going to bungle their way to an 0-16 record.
If you can’t help my football team win a few games, Jesus, what good are you? It’s not like I am asking you to feed the hungry, heal the sick, or put an end to violence and war. That would require you to give a shit, Jesus, and if there’s one thing I have learned over the past sixty-two years, it is this: you don’t give a shit about what happens on earth. We humans are on our own, and that’s fine with me.”
Why Kuvakos decided to educate me about American football, I have no idea. Not that I know anything about the subject, right? Sure glad Kuvakos stopped by to “educate” me.
God-Bless
Ah yes, always the “God bless” benediction.
And here’s mine . . .
A Sinner Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the years as we have followed God’s call to work with Christian pastors in our limited fashion, we have come across a lot of different people. Many of those people are like Mr. Bruce Gerencser a deconverted Christian or former pastor who used to believe the Bible (Or however he describes himself).
We are sad that he is sick but that is life and we all suffer at one point in time or another. We have known Mr. Gerencer for many years and never see eye to eye like the owner of Muskrat Musing.
The impression we got from reading his content, is that he thinks his eyes were opened to the truth and that he received the truth, which is why he downgraded the Bible and left his pastorate, career, and calling.
There is a lot of content in his article that should be refuted and we will bypass the Dr. Ehrman quotes for this article. The gist of the content is that Mr. Gerenscer thinks he has the truth, and all the fundamentalists and Christians he hates do not.
That is impossible as Jesus said he was the truth and he did not say the Bible was in error or had any errors in it. He told s if things were not true, he would have told us and we have received no divine scripture that corrects the biblical content.
….
At best, he points to works written by secular authors or scientists and claims that they have the truth over God’s writers. But how can that be when Jesus said the Christian is to be the light unto a dark world.
It is not the secular world or secular science that has the truth. If they did, Jesus would not have been needed nor would we need him to die on the cross. We would go to the person leading those secular people instead.
….
He is very misguided and deceived as it is not the Christian, their faith, the Bible, or Jesus that are harming those people who refuse to repent of their sins. The person harming those people is the one who traps them in those sinful activities and fights to keep them from being converted-the devil.
The Christian is showing the love when they try to rescue those unbelievers from that trap while Mr. Gerenscer and people like him are showing their hatred towards those people by helping evil keep its hold on them.
….
Mr. Gerenscer, and people like him, listened to those who do not believe over God. The people who infect young minds with falsehoods are those who stop believing God and accept the words of unbelievers who were not at the event they are trashing.
….
Mr. Gerenscer moves on to social issues and claims there are proof texts prohibiting certain preferences etc. Those are not proof texts but God’s communication on how he feels about certain things.
Yes, many believers get the verses wrong and apply them in a wrong fashion but that is due more to immaturity and bad instruction. Not to errors in the Bible. If God did not say those words, then we do not have God’s view of those social activities or preferences.
In other words, Mr. Gerenscer and others like him, want to live life their way and be god declaring what is right or wrong, good or evil, moral or immoral. They do not want to humble themselves and accept God as their God and live by his rules.
….
You cannot solve problems if you are going to leave the answers at home or in your car but then Mr. Gerenscer does not want to solve problems, especially God’s way. He wants people to remain in their sins because he has determined that God and his word are wrong (according to his limited thinking).
If people are going to trash me publicly, I wish they would at least spell my last name correctly. How hard can it be, right? GERENCSER.
I “love” Tee’s passive-aggressive comment about me being sick. What Tee is saying is this: everyone is sick now and again. Quit talking about it, wimp. As you shall see in a moment, Tee thinks I am “weak.” Besides, what does the fact that I suffer from gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis have anything to do with inerrancy? Of course, Tee said very little about the subject of my post: the inerrancy of the Bible. Instead, he went after me as a person. Tee can’t square my story with his theology or personal experiences, so he attacks my character instead. Sadly, this is common behavior by Christian Fundamentalists. Instead of critiquing my writing, they zero in what they believe are character flaws/failures. Tis the price paid for being a public figure, I suppose. Such behavior only drives people farther away from Christianity. One of the reasons I publish the stuff people say about me is that it shows readers the ugly underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. And, it’s fun.
Tee wasn’t done with me. Today, he wrote post titled, We Call Them Quitters. While Tee used plural pronouns in the article’s title, the body of the text reveals that the title should have been, I Call Bruce Gerencser a Quitter. The post is excerpted below. My response is indented and italicized.
In our last article, we wrote about one man who turned away from Christ and left his faith. He actually represents all the people who have done the exact same thing since Christ was here.
Tee believes in original sin and the substitutionary death of Jesus. Simply put, when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden 6,023 years ago, humanity sinned. We had no choice in the matter. We don’t become sinners — we are sinners. Of course, since Tee believes we are created in the image of God, that means that God either gave us our sin natures, or God himself is a sinner, and we are just like Daddy.
When the virgin-born, sinless son of God, Jesus, was executed on a Roman cross, he died to provide atonement for human sin. We deserved to be executed (why? Jesus is one who did what he did, not me) but Jesus died in our place. His Father hates sin and those who do it. If the All-Father (tell me you get the reference) had his way (you mean God can’t have his way?) all of us would end up in Hell for eternity. Jesus, the mediator between God and man, stood between humanity and his angry Father, dying on the cross on our behalf (unless you are a Calvinist — then Jesus just died for the elect. Non-elect need not apply). Even today, Jesus sits at the right hand of his Father, interceding on our behalf. This makes me think that Jesus’ Father needs to take anger management classes. Blaming billions of humans for what Adam and Eve did doesn’t seem just or fair. Regardless, that’s the plan the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit — the “we are not three gods, just one” deity — cooked up from before the foundation of the world.
Much like Adam and Eve and Jesus, I too represent a group of people: those who turned away from Jesus Christ and Christianity. I, Bruce, Gerencser, am the substitutionary Christian-turned-unbeliever. Not just Christians who are now atheists or agnostics, ALL Christians-turned-unbelievers. Awesome, right?
We are not singling him out as he just parrots the same words all the rest of the former Christians say and nothing is new coming out of his mouth or from his keyboard.
Hell, David, at least be honest. You most certainly are singling me out.
The Bible talks about running the race, fighting the good fight, and keep on doing it till the end. But Mr. Generscer and the people like him, have decided that they know better than God and quit the race, etc.
We do not support their moves, call them intelligent, or think they have something to offer. Instead, we call them quitters. They could not handle the fight, strive to the end, and did not take the right precautions to protect their faith.
Generscer? That’s a new one.
According to Tee, I am a quitter. Instead of running the race set before me, wearing a faith condom, and persevering to the end, I just up and quit. Instead of trying to understand the complexities of my story, Tee reduces my life to that of a quitter.
I attended Midwestern Baptist College, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) institution, in the 1970s. Dr. Tom Malone (who had a doctorate from an accredited university, Wayne State University), president of Midwestern and pastor of a nearby megachurch, Emmanuel Baptist Church, frequently railed against quitters in his sermons. Quitting was viewed as a cardinal sin, a sign of weakness. I heard this theme repeated over and over again at IFB Bible conferences and pastor’s meetings. Good Christians never quit. The fact that my six-month pregnant wife and I, recently unemployed, left Midwestern after three years was proof to Malone, our professors, and classmates that we were weak. I vividly remember a close friend of mine telling me as we were packing up the U-Haul to leave, “If you quit, God will NEVER use you.”
Seven years later, Malone was preaching at a Bible conference at the Newark Baptist Temple in Newark, Ohio. The church was pastored at the time by Polly’s uncle, James Dennis. Her father, Lee, was the church’s assistant pastor. At the time, I was pastoring Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio. In the mid-80s, the church grew quickly, reaching 200 in attendance — quite a feat for a country church. Hundreds of people were saved through my preaching. By all accounts, I was an up-and-coming pastor.
My father-in-law told Malone about my exploits for Jesus. Seeing that I was sitting in the pews, Malone called me out by name and then said, “If Bruce had stayed any longer at Midwestern, we would have ruined him.” Everyone laughed. I thought, “I wonder what those people who called me a quitter think now?”
I have quit all sorts of things over the years. I suspect most of us have done the same. No big deal, right? Tee, however, is using the word “quitter” as a slur. People who “quit” Christianity are weak, unlike Mr. Tee, the True Christian®.
When you look at their websites, there is a common theme to them. We won’t quote from Mr. Gerenscer’s site, we will just link to his commenting rules page as that is where you find this common element found among all those who have left the faith.
Now we are to one of the reasons Tee’s feathers are ruffled, why he has written two posts about me in recent days. Tee doesn’t like the commenting rules for this site. He doesn’t like that I don’t let him and other Evangelical zealots publicly masturbate (it’s a metaphor, David)) in the comment section. Tee wants the right to whip out his Bible Dick whenever he wants on this site. Me telling him to put it away, zip up his pants, and move on down the road is an affront to all that is holy and true.
The commenting policy was crafted due to me spending the past thirteen years dealing with the David Tees of the world. For those who have not read the comment policy, here’s what it says:
— begin comment policy —
All commenters are expected to use a functioning email address. The use of a fake or non-functioning email address will result in your comment being deleted.
Pseudonyms are permitted. Please use one, and only one, pseudonym when commenting on this blog. People using more than one will have their comments deleted.
All first-time comments and comments with more than one HTML link are moderated. Depending on the time of day, It might take hours for me to approve your comment.
Before commenting, please read the ABOUT page to acquaint yourself with my background. You might also want to read the Dear Evangelical page and the WHY page
The following type of comments will not be approved:
Preachy/sermonizing comment
Bible verse-quoting comment
Evangelizing comment
I am praying for you comment
You are going to hell comment
You never were saved comment
You never were a Christian comment
Any comment that is a personal attack on me personally, my family, or the readers of this blog
Any comment that is not on point with what the post is about
Any comment that denigrates abuse victims
I write about issues that might not be child-friendly. Please be aware of this. I also use profanity from time to time, and I allow the use of profanity in the comment section.
The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser is not a democracy where visitors have a right to say whatever they want. This is my personal blog and I reserve the right to approve or disapprove any comment. When a comment or a commenter is abusive towards the community of people who read this blog, I reserve the right to ban the commenter.
If you can be respectful, decent, and thoughtful, your comment will always be approved. Unfortunately, there are many people — Evangelical/Fundamentalist/IFB/Conservative Catholic Christians in particular — who have a hard time playing well with others. Using a passive-aggressive approach in the comment section will not be tolerated and will result in a permanent ban.
This blog is also not a place for hardcore atheists to preach the gospel of atheism. While I am an atheist, some of the people who read this blog are not. Frank, honest, open, and passionate discussion about religion, Christianity, and Evangelicalism is encouraged and welcome. However, I do expect atheists not to attack, badger, or denigrate people who still believe in God. If you are respectful, decent, and thoughtful, you will be fine.
Generally, I will post one comment from a preachy, Bible-quoting, evangelizing Evangelical. If this describes you, please make sure you say all you need to say in your comment. By all means, say whatever it is you think “God” is leading you to say, but understand that no further comments will be approved once you have said your piece.
My writing is direct and pointed, and so is my response to comments. Please do not confuse my directness and pointedness with me attacking you or your religion. This is a grown-up blog, so cries that I offended you or “attacked” your religion will fall on deaf ears.
If you can play by these rules, I hope you will become a part of our community and join the discussion.
If you have further questions about the commenting policy, please use the contact form to email me.
— end of comment policy —
I determined long ago that my target group was Christians (primarily Evangelicals) who had questions or doubts about their faith and people who had already left Christianity. This blog is for them, not Evangelical apologists. That said, EVERY Evangelical commenter is given one opportunity to say whatever it is they believe God is laying upon their heart. If they show that they can play well with others, I will approve further comments. If I have learned anything over the years, I have learned that most Evangelicals are pathologically unable to play well with others. Give them the opportunity to comment, and they will show their true colors. When Evangelical commenters DEMAND further access to the comment section, I typically tell them to fuck off and to start their own blogs. Such people can start a blog in five minutes. Then they are free to critique my writing, deconstruct my life, or attack my character. Go for it!
As you read those rules, you will see that he, and others like him, act worse than they claim God acts. They are little dictators who demand that their readers and commenters follow their rules exactly or they will be excluded from public viewing.
I act worse than God? Really? I don’t believe I have ever committed genocide or slaughtered the whole human race, save eight. I am, in every way, a better person than God. All one needs to do is read the Bible to see that Richards Dawkins was right when he said:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
They hate God for excluding sin from his paradise, yet their own little world comes with worse rules than what God has set up. Violate them in a minute way and you are gone.
Sorry, David, I don’t hate God. You know this. I have told you this before, dude. One has to believe God exists to hate him. I don’t. I don’t hate mythical beings. Doing so is a colossal waste of time. Do you hate Santa Claus?
Again, Tee’s post is about him not being allowed to comment on this site or not being permitted to say whatever he wants. (He is not presently banned.) Imagine me going to an Evangelical church and demanding that they let me speak. I want to share with them the Gospel of Bruce Almighty. Do you know of any church that would let me preach to them the unsearchable riches of Bruce? Of course not. So it is with this blog. I want to be a help to people who have questions and doubts or have left Christianity. I use the comment policy to protect the people that matter to me. Well, that and the fact that I haven’t heard an original thought from Evangelical zealots in years. I’m bored, people.
What this tells you is that those who have left the faith have nothing to offer anyone, especially their former Christian counterparts. If they had such a better way, why is it not present in their rules and their conduct?
Huh?
I can say this much, thousands of people read my writing every day. So much for not having anything to offer anyone. I would be glad to compare traffic numbers with Tee. I suspect we will find out who it is that really has nothing to offer anyone. Size matters, David.
If they found something better than God why is it not permeating their words and actions showing the believer there is something better than God and his ways? When you read their content and comments, all we are seeing in them is more of the sin that Jesus is trying to save everyone from.
There is nothing in these people’s words or actions that show the world that they have found something no one else has. They just glorify sin and revel in it. That is not worth giving up eternal life.
Another common element you will see in their words and actions is hatred. They hate God, Jesus, and those that follow them. They hate other people who cling to their Christian faith, they hate hearing other people’s points of view if it is religious in nature.
Yep, this blog is all about sinning. Wait until you see the photos of me doing my Santa striptease act. I wish I could do more sinning. I am too sick to do so. Of course, I am being sarcastic. Well, not about the sinning part. I suspect that my life would measure up quite well with that of Saint Tee and his merry band of critics. Tee can’t bear that I am happy post-Jesus. Nope, in his mind, I sit around all day raging against God, the Bible, and True Christians®. Sure, dude, sure. I’m going to the zoo tomorrow with my youngest daughter’s family. And Sunday, Polly and I are going out on a date. I don’t have much time to hate on Hey-Zeus.
Sorry, David, you have concocted a picture of my life in your mind that is not true. That Bruce Gerencser does not exist.
Oh, our pingback from the other post was never approved, which backs up our point (we checked several times). Then they hate it when people disagree with them or try to bring them back to the faith, which Peter has said is impossible.
Ah, now we arrive at the real reason Tee is upset at me. I allegedly didn’t approve a pingback. What is a pingback, you ask? WP Beginner describes it this way:
“Pingback allows you to notify other bloggers that you have linked to their article on your website. Although there are some minor technical differences, a trackback is basically the same thing as a pingback.”
I approve ALL ALL ALL legitimate pingbacks. I have received no pingback from either of Tee’s posts. It must be my fault, right? What else could have gone wrong? As long-time bloggers know, the pingback system is not infallible. Just like the Bible. . .
Here’s the irony of Tee’s complaint. I have mentioned several of his posts over the years. I have pingback enabled on this site. That means Tee has received pingbacks from this blog. Where are they, David? Not one pingback from this site is shown on your posts. Why is that? Hypocrite. (Update: Several pingbacks have now miraculously appeared on Tee’s blog.)
What Tee wants is attention, and outside of this post, I will not give it to him. Per the comment policy, I will grant him one comment on this post. Let ‘er rip, big boy.
We are not and do not try to preach to Mr. Gerenscer and others like him as that would be a waste of time. We just point out the errors in their thinking to protect believers.
Those people have nothing to offer you but like the evil they follow, they will try and rob you of eternal life with Jesus. You have to take care to protect your faith as no matter what level in life the unbeliever enjoys, they have nothing over God to offer you.
Their education and experiences are used against them to ruin their faith and they are no trying to do to you what was done to them. At best ignore them and point out their fallacies to others so you can win souls for Christ instead of losing yours to Christ’s enemy.
….
The unbeliever has nothing to offer you even if they are the greatest scientist, teacher, leader, athlete, and so on in the world. Just do not be fooled by their fake claims of being a Christian.
I am just one man with a story to tell. That people find my story helpful or compelling is not my fault. Perhaps, the real question is WHY my story resonates with people. (Look in the mirror, David.) I am content to write and leave it at that. I have received thousands and thousands of emails, comments, and social media messages from professing Christians over the years — some of whom still read this blog. Not one time I have ever tried to deconvert someone. My goal has never been to make atheist converts. Helping people had always been my objective. I leave it to readers to determine whether I have done so.
I suspect Tee’s real issue with me is that he sees my congregation growing. He sees my words influencing and helping others. He reads stories about people who praise me for helping them in the deconversion process. Thus, Tee feels the need to demonize me and attack my character (and the readers of this blog). He simply can’t stand losing.
And dammit, my last name is spelled Gerencser. Get it right! 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You have contacted me several times in recent years via Facebook, hoping to reconnect with the man you once called Pastor. Shockingly, you found out that I am no longer a Christian; that I no longer believe the Bible is the Word of God; that I proudly self-identify as an atheist and a humanist. I can only imagine how difficult and heartbreaking it was for you to read my blog for the first time. You are not the first former church member to feel this way. I am sure you hoped that you would find me faithfully serving Jesus, preaching the gospel, and winning souls to Christ. Instead, you found out that I have repudiated all that I once believed and preached.
We were Facebook friends for a short while, and then you unfriended me. I told you that I understood your decision to unfriend me. I know my story can be troubling and disconcerting to those who were once close to me. You sent me another friend request, yet before I could accept it, you thought better of friending me and deleted the request. Again, I understand. You have a hard time reconciling the Bruce who was your pastor in the 1980s, and the Bruce of today. Because your worldview requires you to frame and measure everything according to your interpretation of the Bible, you find it impossible to square my life today with that of thirty-plus years ago. From a theological perspective, the current Bruce Gerencser is a lost man headed for Hell, yet you remember a Bruce Gerencser who loved God and devoted his life to following after Jesus.
Set the religious stuff aside for a moment. Instead of attempting to see me through religious eyes, how about seeing me through human eyes? The kind, loving, compassionate, temperamental, flawed man who pastored Somerset Baptist Church decades ago still exists. The man you have such fond memories of is still alive and well — though physically in poor health. From a human perspective, I haven’t changed much. The character strengths and flaws I had as your pastor still exist today. Next month, I will turn sixty-four, and if there is one thing I have learned, it is this: humans rarely change. We are, character-wise, who we are. While my beliefs, politics, and worldview have dramatically changed over the years, my nature has not. Sure, age, sickness, and time have affected me, as they do all of us, but, for the most part, I am not much different today from who I was during the exciting days when Somerset Baptist was a thriving, growing church.
If you can ever look beyond your theological beliefs and see Bruce, the man, you will find out that the man you once loved and respected is right in front of you. Sadly, many Evangelicals cannot see people for who they are because their theological beliefs force them to define people according to what the Bible says instead of what they can see with their eyes. Your fellow Christians routinely savage me. I have been repeatedly told that I am evil and a follower of Satan. Evidently, what I believe, and not my behavior, determines what kind of man I am. The moment I said, I no longer believe in the Christian God, I went from a loving husband, father, and grandfather to a man who is worthy of scorn and derision; a man, some say, who is hiding a life of debauchery and licentiousness.
You have two choices set before you, Wendy. Either you can embrace and befriend the Bruce of 2021, or you can hang on to the memory of the 1987 Bruce. I would love to be friends with you in the here and now, but life is too short for me to worry about people who cannot see beyond my beliefs and are thus unable or unwilling to befriend me. Virtually all of my former Evangelical friends, parishioners, and ministerial colleagues, have been unable to remain friends with me post-Jesus. I understand why this is so. Fidelity to Jesus and the Bible was the glue that held our relationships together. Once I deconverted, that which bound us was gone. Rare are friendships that survive for a lifetime. Today, almost thirteen years after I attended church for the last time, I have two Evangelical friends. Everyone else has written me off or turned me into a sermon illustration, a warning of what happens when someone no longer believes the Bible is true.
Since you can’t seem to bring yourself to befriend me as I now am, you are left with your memories of the time we spent together in the rolling hills of Southeast Ohio. And that’s okay. I, too, have many fond memories of the eleven years I pastored Somerset Baptist Church. Nothing in the present can change the experiences of the past. If it helps you think better of me, then, by all means, cling to our shared memories, pushing from your mind thoughts of Atheist Bruce. If you ever want to be friends again, you know where to find me.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Earlier this week, an Evangelical man named Daniel Kluver decided to contact my wife on Facebook. (Please see Evangelical Man Messages My Wife on Facebook.) Kluver also messaged me (please see Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot) and left comments on my posts on Facebook. Kluver has since blocked me on Facebook — my demonic power must be too strong for him. Before he blocked me, he sent me one more message.
Here’s what Kluver had to say. My response is indented and italicized.
You morphs are just confirmation of the times we are in.
Kluver says I am a “morph.” I had no idea what this term meant. I found out the word has several technical meanings. The word is also listed in the Urban Dictionary, and I suspect this is the definition Kluver wants to use.
A morph is “a person who acts like an idiot, a person who acts like a crackhead.” I don’t use crack, so I assume that Kluver is calling me an idiot.
You have shown that you don’t love or fear god and you are useless now!
I am an atheist, so of course I don’t love nor fear Kluver’s God. Said God is a mythical being, a work of fiction. I can say the same thing about every extant God. I do, however, fear the worshipers of deities. People cause harm, not gods. Beliefs cause harm, not gods.
Kluver says that because I don’t love or fear his God that I am “useless.” I have no idea what he means.
Your opinions are slanderous and you have become just like satan whom you serve. A stumbling block to some. Just a bunch of hot air to others.
To devout Fundamentalist Christians such as Kluver, I am sure my writing seems slanderous. My goal has always been to help those who have questions/doubts about Christianity or have left Christianity. My target audience has NEVER been saved, sanctified, all-hopped-up-on-Jesus Christians. If such people read my writing, it is because they choose to do so. Don’t want to get your panties in a bunch? Don’t want to feel righteous indignation? Don’t want to get angry? Then don’t read my writing.
Kluver seems to forget that he is the one who commented on this blog, and he is the one who contacted my wife and me on Facebook. I left Christianity thirteen years ago. Not one time I have ever contacted a Christian and tried to convert them to atheism. I abhor such behavior. I do, however, respond to Christians who email me, leave comments on this site, or comment on social media. My nuclear policy is this: no first strike.
Lost on Kluver is the fact that if I don’t believe in the existence of God, neither do I believe in the existence of Satan/Lucifer/Devil/Beelzebul/Day-Star/Son of the Morning/The Evil One/Father of Lies/Ruler of this World/God of this Age/Angel of Light/Roaring Lion/Destroyer/Apollyon/Abaddon/Serpent/Deceiver of the World/Accuser of God’s People. No matter what name you give her, I don’t believe she exists.
Kluver believes I am a stumbling block to some Christians. He is, of course, right. I know that many Christians find my story and my critiques of Evangelicalism to be troubling and disconcerting. Former parishioners and colleagues in the ministry have told me that my writing so troubles them that they can’t read it. Why is that? I am just one man with a story to tell. If my writing causes followers of Jesus to doubt their beliefs, why am I to blame? I make no effort to evangelize people. Millions of people have read my writing over the years, many of whom are Christian. I am humbled by the sheer number of people who think my writing is worth reading. I sure as hell wouldn’t read this shit! 🙂 If readers find help and encouragement from my writing, I am grateful. Grateful to whom, you ask? Loki, of course. 🙂
I started blogging in 2007. At the time, I was still a Christian — barely. Since that time, I have heard from scores of people who have been helped by my writing, some of whom deconverted after reading my work. Do I find satisfaction in people deconverting? Sure. I am persuaded that any move away from Christian Fundamentalism is a good one. If my writing helps someone break free from the pernicious clutches of Evangelicalism, I count myself blessed. Blessed by whom, you ask? Loki, of course. 🙂
Kluver believes I am full of hot air. Maybe. However, I suspect that Kluver thinks my educated opinions about Evangelical Christianity are what he is calling “hot air.” The traffic numbers for this site suggest that there are a lot of people who seem to like “hot air.” I encourage Kluver to start his own blog. By all means, rage against the evil atheist Bruce Gerencser. Deconstruct my story and attack my beliefs. Nail me to a cross and metaphorically crucify me. My life and work are an open book. By all means, blast away! (A number of Evangelical zealots have done just that over the years. They miserably failed, abandoning their attempts to deconstruct my life.)
Rough times ahead just right around the corner for those who hate god.
Yet another passive-aggressive threat from Kluver. What, exactly, lies ahead for those who “hate God?” Need I remind Kluver that atheists don’t hate God? Atheists don’t hate mythical beings. Wouldn’t it be silly to do so?
You’re wrong about who dies when you said that we will both die. Believers never die!
*sigh* Both Kluver and I will one day die. I am sixty-three, and he is sixty-four. We are in the final stretch of life. If I live to age seventy, that means ninety percent of my life is over. I hope that I live that long, but I have my doubts. Gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis are taking their toll on my body. I know death is stalking me, just as it is Daniel Kluver. Unfortunately, Kluver thinks he’s never going to die; that the moment he draws his last breath in this life, he will awake in Heaven. This, of course, is not taught in the Bible. Orthodox Christian theology teaches people — saved and lost — remain in the grave until they are resurrected from the dead and judged by God. Kluver and I are headed for the same place — the grave.
I am amazed at your ignorance and you probably were thrown out of the congregation that you say you were pastoring. I doubt that much of what you said is true!
I am amazed at my ignorance too. There is so much that I don’t know.
Kluver ends his message by trying to inflict as much emotional pain as possible. It’s evident he wants to hurt me. Thus, he calls me a liar, doubts my story is true, and says I was thrown out of the congregation I pastored.
I do my best to give an open, honest accounting of my life — past and present. I just completed a five-part series titled I am a Publican and a Heathen, detailing my excommunication from Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas. I also wrote a post about what happened to the churches I pastored. Please read What Happened to the Churches I Pastored?
Why don’t you get a job?
Well, I am disabled and retired. Had Kluver bothered to read more than the five posts he read on this site, he might have known this. He might have learned about my struggles with chronic illness and pain. He might also have learned that I can no longer drive. Believe me, if someone had a job opening for a broken-down, sick old man like me, I would take it.
Not that I don’t work, I do. It takes me hours each day to write for this blog. While I don’t make much money from blogging, I do treat it as a job. I also manage my sister’s business website. Throw in the money I make from stripping on the weekends, and I am rolling in cash from the “work” I do. Of course, Kluver uses “Why don’t you get a job?” as a way to inflict emotional pain. My beliefs no longer matter to him; he’s out for blood.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I responded to a Facebook message sent by Evangelical Christian Daniel Kluver to my wife. (Please see Evangelical Man Messages My Wife on Facebook.) Kluver also messaged me, but I didn’t see it at first, thanks to it landing in my spam folder. Evidently, God can’t circumvent spam filters. What follows is Kluver’s message (s) to me. My response is indented and italicized.
Peter ruckman was disliked by many brainwashed preacher boys but he was my favorite teacher because he was a straight shooter! Just because the Bible says in the latter times some will depart from the faith giving heed to doctrines of demons like the nuns that won’t marry doesn’t mean you have to. You should watch demons and Christians by ruckman.
This one paragraph tells me everything I need to know about how Daniel Kluver views the Bible and the world, in general. Kluver is a follower of Peter Ruckman, a thrice-divorced, racist Independent Fundamentalist Baptist preacher (now deceased). (Please see Questions: Bruce, In Your IFB Days Did You Encounter Peter Ruckman?) Ruckman was a nasty, arrogant, self-righteous preacher, as are many of his followers.
In Kluver’s world, people who disagree with his demigod are “brainwashed.” Ruckman was King James-only, going so far as to say that even the italicized words in the King James Bible were inspired by God. Ruckman may be dead, but his teachings about the King James Bible live on, infecting the minds of countless Fundamentalist Baptist preachers. I know numerous preachers who are Ruckmanites, even though they refuse to admit where their theological beliefs came from. These preachers despise the man, but love his doctrines. Ruckman operated a Bible Institute in Pensacola, Florida, churning out clones for decades.
You speak like you were a brainwashed preacher boy and it makes me wonder if you are really saved.
In his message to Polly, Kluver suggested that I was still saved. Now he thinks I am unsaved, that I have been “brainwashed.” By whom, he does not say. As a Christian, I was directed, led, and taught by God himself — the Holy Spirit. Thus, if I was “brainwashed” by anyone, it was God.
I have prayed for god to soften your heart and cut you to the marrow if that’s what it takes.with stents and patches all over our bodies we are in the third quarter of life.
Since God ALWAYS answers Kluver’s prayers (his words), I should expect the Holy Spirit to “soften my heart and cut me to the marrow.” I’m melting, I’m melting! Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. Kluver’s mind is so infected and corrupted with Bible words that he is unable to write using everyday English words unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines such as myself might understand.
I would probably bet that your wife has been a first peter chapter three wife at times.
Kluver says that Polly was, at one time, a First Peter 3 wife. Yes, she still loves peter. 🙂 What Kluver means is this:
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Polly was a First Peter 3 wife ALL the time; that is before we realized how harmful and demeaning such teachings were. I can confidently report that Polly is no longer a First Peter 3 wife — and I have lived to tell about it. 🙂
Gods message to you is don’t let your pride get in the way of eternity! The only way you could ever preach gods word and denounce him later is only by devils that you have let surround yourself. Devils perched on both shoulders whispering lies into your mind to block the Spirit of God all mighty!
Ah yes, I am surrounded by devils. As many Evangelicals do, Kluver can’t make my past and present life fit in his narrow Fundamentalist box. Instead of just accepting that I once was a Christian, and now I am not, Kluver scrambles and flails, looking for ways to explain my life. Further, Kluver thinks he has a direct message from God for me. I am “prideful,” and unless I humble myself before Kluver, uh I mean God, I will end up in Hell. You see, Kluver thinks he is in an MMA match with me. His goal is to make me submit.
there is a literal hell and I have found that out before I was saved. God used it as a tool to get my attention and it worked.
No, there’s not. Kluver provides no evidence for the existence of Hell. None, nada, zip. Kluver seems to suggest that he had some sort of experience that proved to him Hell is real. However, I doubt that Kluver has literally and physically visited Hell. If he has, I would sure love to see the evidence for his claim. You know, photos or video? The only hell I see is in this life. The same goes for heaven.
I am going to ask God to pull back his protective hand off of your life if that’s what it takes to get your attention. In case you haven’t realized it yet I asked God to use me and instead of street witnessing like I used to he is using technology. I have to stay prayed up to fight the devil everyday and you saw how he was working on me with the first message I sent you.
Kluver now turns to passive-aggressive threats. He’s asking a non-existent deity to take his hand off of me and cause me physical harm to get my attention. The only thing that concerns me with such threats is that Kluver might think that God wants him to be the means of “punishment.” Do I worry about such people? Sure, a bit. Religion can and does cause people to do all sorts of crazy shit. That said, if I hid every time an Evangelical zealot threatened me, I would never leave my home. Kluver told me today on Facebook: “One thing about you is you are entertaining but I am tired of you and your stupidity.” I reminded him that he was the one who contacted me.
If I don’t see you in heaven then I will see you on judgment day! Take care and god bless!
There is no Heaven or Hell, so Kluver and I will not see other after death. Both of us will most certainly die, but after that? Nothing. Both of us will become worm food or ash. Besides, if there really is a Heaven, why would I ever want to live in the same universe as the Kluvers of the world? No thanks. Give me Hell every time. Better company, and definitely better parties.
Kluver also wrote:
I read your part one about preachers and i am seeing all around me how church leaders are fouled up with relationships.I have been out of a so called church for over a year now. I poured my heart and soul into the congregation and when i retired from drywall contracting and doing most of the work because i was a small business, then i noticed that when i wasn’t fixing holes for almost free i was treated differently.I attended Calvary Chapel of tri cities Washington for twenty years and the friendships had no depth. People used to give me dirty looks when i said show me a pastor that doesn’t cuss and i will show him a screw gun. I have tried to be friends with the preacher and it’s just phony! I am not wired that way and even my old partying friends were better to be around.everytime i got close to the pastor i got really weird vibes from him like he didn’t like me for some reason.Twenty years of that crap was enough! What I saw with Calvary was a dictatorship and I won’t put up with that.if someone asked about the money he would snap back and say what do you want to know for? Sarcastic! I know we can’t quit the church because we are the church.There is something about being in leadership that I see change people in a bad way. I don’t know if I will attend so called church anymore. The southern baptist convention is another thing that really irritates me. They want contracts signed for church memberships! I know that when I got saved I then became a member of the body of Christ and not by some man made crap! I want to read part two of your story.Take care!
I am 64 close to your age.
There is a root of bitterness springing up inside of us towards man. God woke me up seven hours after I messaged you with heavy conviction. Our human nature wants to say that we are done with God but that’s what the enemy wants. I have been praying for both of us that God would yank the bitterness out of us by the roots! If you were really born of the spirit you will get the chastening which is a hug from God because he loves us. I have to say when I prayed with a friend for salvation at 17 years old it was probably a false conversion, just lip service.When I was thirty three years old I was driving to work and got nailed by the Holy Spirit and was truly born again.Thats what satan wants is false conversions because they are deceived. I read part two last night and I have seen the things you said happen to people. Men’s traditions are like doctrine of demons. I am sorry that satan has been attacking us but it’s going to happen when we are effectively touching others by our witnessing and teaching. I will continue to pray for you and your family and ask for Gods will in your lives and mine!
After reading Kluver’s message, I sent him a short reply:
Thank you for the blog fodder. Now fuck off.
Kluver replied:
Hey preacher boy i totally understand how screwed up the independent baptist church is and that’s what they do is brainwash people. I have seen it destroy marriages and they prey upon people who want to please god and they just use em up and kick them to the curb. For some stupid reason pastors think they need to follow the early church in acts and that was a communist outfit.just because these bastards messed with your life from the time you were young don’t let that stop your relationship with god. I have seen the corrupt so called church congregations and I hate it. You can use all the foul language you want to make up for all anger you have. I know I would! If you are truly born again then the chastening won’t be very comfortable and if you don’t get your head out of your ass god just might take his protective hand off of your life! That’s all I got to say!
One more thing. If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps the loudest just got hit! Telling me to fuck off was your yelp! You are mild compared to the Harley riders I share Jesus with. I just don’t take too much shit from people and for some reason I hope you will get right with the lord!
End of quotes
As readers can see, Kluver is on the outs with organized Christianity. He’s had some bad experiences, and this has, rightly so, affected his view of Christian churches and preachers. What perplexes me is his attack on me personally. What is it about me that irritates him so? As is typical with zealots and apologists, Kluver has read very little of my writing. And this has led him to make all sorts of errant assumptions about my life. Kluver wrongly thinks I was always an IFB preacher. I was not. I left the IFB church movement in the 1980s. I wish the Kluvers of the world would take the time to read my autobiographical work. Doing so would hopefully result in more nuanced and thoughtful interaction with them. Instead, I get the comments and emails featured in this post.
Not that it will matter. Kluver thinks I am saved, lost, headed for Heaven, headed for Hell, under God’s chastisement, or fixing to get chastised by God. Kluver didn’t contact me to gain a better understanding of my story. He’s on a mission from his God, and I am his “target.” Typically, I tell such people to fuck off, but, in Kluver’s case, I thought readers might find his comments and my responses instructive.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
On the last Sunday in November 2007, my wife and I walked out of the Ney United Methodist Church for the last time. We decided that we were done with Christianity, that whatever we were, we weren’t Christians. Initially, I claimed the agnostic label. Several months later, I abandoned this label, choosing instead to self-identify as an atheist. Thirteen years later, I am still an atheist.
While my beliefs have become more nuanced over time, I remain unconvinced that the central claims of Christianity are true. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) Thousands of Evangelical/Roman Catholic/Greek Orthodox/Muslim apologists have emailed me or left comments on this site. Their objective? To evangelize me or reclaim me for Jesus. Whether the goal is salvation or restoration, they hope I will see the “light” and abandon atheism. That hasn’t happened, and it is unlikely to happen in the future. There remains no new argument for apologists to make for Christianity. I have heard their best (and worst) arguments. What could they possibly say that would change my mind?
I am a confirmed apostate, a heretic, and a reprobate. I am NOT a prospect for Heaven. With all the low-hanging fruit in the world, why do zealots bother with me? Is it that they really care for my “soul”? Or is it that they have a pathological need to hear themselves talk? Maybe they think that there is a .00000001 percent chance that their words will strike pay dirt; that I will repent and rejoin Jesus’s blood-washed band. Trust me when I say . . . that ain’t going to happen! Winning the lottery has better odds than me becoming a Christian again.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I pondered ways to generate income. I thought, I can’t be a porn actor or stripper, but maybe I could return to what I know — preaching and pastoring churches. What do you think, dear readers? Should I tell Jesus, sorry Dude, I was wrong. I repent of my evil blog posts and reaffirm my membership in the One True Faith®? I know, Lord, that the calling of God can never be taken away, so I plan to start a brand-new church in sinful, dark Defiance, Ohio. There’s lots of Christian churches in Defiance, Lord, but none of them is pastored by a man with a testimony such as mine. Imagine, Lord, what I can do for Y-O-U!
Perhaps the Lord will tell me that there are enough churches in Defiance. While I certainly would be disappointed, I know there are other “opportunities” for me in the Lord’s vineyard. How about a traveling evangelistic ministry, Lord?
A former charismatic pastor by the name of Jim is a dear friend of mine. He and I have a lot in common, including a lifetime spent loving, worshiping, and serving a fictional deity. Jim now lives in Arizona, but I have had thoughts about how he and I might be able to make a lot of money by putting our past ministerial skills to work. I thought, we should get a big tent, a trailer to hold the tent and ministry essentials, and an expensive motor home to pull the trailer and provide creature comforts for Jim and Bruce — two humble, suffering servants of J–E–S–U–S. On the side of the motor home we could put life-size pictures of Preachers Jim and Bruce, along with the name of our scam, I mean ministry — (please leave possible ministry names in the comment section).
Off we would go, night after night, telling our stories of deliverance from godlessness. Jim, having the gifts of healing and exorcism, could lay hands on people, delivering them from atheistic demons. I, having the gift of helps, could pray for people, all the while sticking my hand in their purses and back pockets. Oh, sorry sister, I didn’t mean to give you The Donald®! Throw in a hot worship band with a sexy female leader in leather pants — why, I bet we could be rolling in cash in a matter of weeks! After each night’s show, uh I mean mighty move of God, Jim and I could go back to the motor home and talk about what great deeds our God hath done. One for me, one for you. One for me, one for you.
Does anyone doubt that preachers Jim and Bruce could successfully fleece the flock? I know I don’t. I guarantee you that either of us could dust off our Bible, put on our Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, go to an Evangelical church and preach a soul-saving, sin-chasing, bringing-down-the-Shekinah-glory sermon that would leave parishioners praising our anointing and begging us to preach again (in many ways, good preaching is like good sex — always keep them begging for more). We know how to look the part, play the game, and put on our “Christian” veneer. The skills honed over a lifetime didn’t disappear the moment we said we no longer believed. If women can fake orgasms, I am quite certain Jim and Bruce can fake being filled with the Spirit.
Lest a handful of readers miss that this post is Bruce in snark-mode, No, I am not considering a return to Christianity. That ship sailed and fell off the edge of Ken Ham’s flat earth. Christianity, in all of its forms and nuances, is firmly in my rearview mirror. While it saddens me to leave so much cash on the table, I know that integrity, honesty, and truth matter more than money. I will continue to be an itinerant preacher of secularism, humanism, and skepticism, regardless of whether it pays well. In this regard, I am no different from the Evangelical Bruce Gerencser. The message and helping people are far more important than making a buck. Yes, I need more money . . . I’m thinking . . . how about a stripper Santa Claus. What do you think, Polly? Women stuffing twenties in my g-string? Tis the reason for the season, I say. 🙂
Snark-off.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I saw my primary care doctor for a two-month check-up. I have been seeing the same doctor for twenty-five. We’ve become friends, and my appointments are often just as much catching up as they are treating me. My doctor is an Evangelical Christian. While I am sure he has noticed that I don’t talk about God/Jesus/Church anymore, we have never had any sort of discussion about my current beliefs and way of life. We are Facebook friends, so he’s read that I self-describe as an atheist.
For this visit: scripts were written/called in, CT scan scheduled, blood tests ordered, bitching about how bad the Browns/Bengals are, time to go home. The nurse — also an Evangelical — came into the room with several reams of paper (or so it seems) detailing everything we talked about during my visit. My doctor said to his nurse, Bruce, is a retired pastor. Before I could say a word, the nurse said, Retired pastor? How does THAT happen? Again, before I could say anything, my doctor said, He’s a retired pastor. (This nurse was a fill-in. I have not seen her since.)
I outwardly smiled, and much like Trump changing the discussion from “pussy-grabbing” to Bill Clinton’s dalliances, I said, how many games do you think the Browns will win? My doctor shook his head and laughed, knowing that his Browns suck (and my Bengals weren’t much better).
For whatever reason, when it comes to my medical treatment, I wall myself off from my atheist and humanist beliefs. I don’t disown them, I just don’t talk about them. I do, from time to time, act like a devout, proselytizing Jehovah’s Witness, leaving copies of the Freedom From Religion Foundation or Americans United For Separation of Church and State newsletters in the waiting room. Even with this low-key act of godlessness, I make sure my name and address are blacked out before placing the newsletters among waiting room reading materials.
What did the nurse mean when she said, Retired Pastor? how does THAT happen? Evangelical thinking on this subject goes something like this:
God calls men to be pastors.
The work of the ministry is far above any other job. In fact, it is not a job, it’s a calling.
This calling is irrevocable. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Romans 11:29)
Pastors should die in the pulpit while preaching the gospel. Going to Heaven with my boots on, old-time preachers used to say.
Thus, being a retired pastor does not compute. God saved and called me, so I should still be preaching. But wait a minute. I am no longer a Christian. I don’t believe in the existence of the God I at one time worshiped and served. My salvation and calling were the results of social conditioning, the consequence of spending fifty years in the Evangelical church. At age five I told my mother that I wanted to be a preacher someday. At age fifteen, I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Two weeks later, I went before the church and told them I believed God was calling me to be a preacher. The congregation praised God for his selection of the redheaded Gerencser boy, and a week later I preached my first sermon. Thirty-three years later I preached my last sermon.
Someday, my obituary will be published in the Bryan Times and Defiance Crescent-News. On that day, my doctor will know the “truth” about my life and loss of faith. Until then, I am content to talk about football, baseball, or family, leaving my godlessness for another day. While I don’t think the fact of my atheism would affect my medical care, I prefer not to complicate my professional relationship and friendship with my doctor. If I Iive longer than expected — which is increasingly doubtful — and my doctor retires before I die, perhaps then we will talk about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. Or maybe he’ll stumble upon my blog or read one of the articles I have written for other blogs. I don’t fear him knowing. I just know there’s not enough time in a fifteen-minute office visit for me to explain why I am no longer a Christian.
Do you have certain people you haven’t shared your deconversion with? Why do you keep this to yourself? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
