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I Stumbled Upon a 2014 and 2016 “Discussion” About Me on Baptist Board

Bruce Gerencser 11 Comments
peanut gallery

Today, I found two discussions about me on Baptist Board from 2014 and 2016, respectively, while doing an Internet search on my name. What follows are excerpts from these discussions. Many of the men discussing me are Baptist pastors. Lies, distortions, attacks on my character, with a few thoughtful comments sprinkled in. Granted, these discussions are eight and six years old, so the commenters did not have the breadth of autobiographical material that is available today. Would their opinions about me have changed if they had more in-depth posts about my story to read? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Give their comments a read and let me know what you think. All spelling and grammar in the original.

Enjoy. 🙂 And for the record, Earth, Wind, and Fire is a fucking prick. 🙂

2014 — Pastor Turned Atheist

Earth Wind and Fire:

Interesting read…this guy was a Baptist pastor….so what are your thoughts?:

http://quitplayingchurch.wordpress.com/tag/bruce-gerencser/

Aaron:

Ooooh, another let’s-indict-believers-and-elevate-the-vomitus-of-the-apostate thread.

We are not commanded to live for unbelievers. We are commanded to live for the believer, specifically, the one who is weak in the faith. Willing to forgo your beer for his sake?

Revmitchell:

That is baloney. Based on what I have seen so far there is no real complaint to be made. Just someone wanting to tear down Christians and the church. Otherwise specifics could be given.  

Winman:

Ok, you will hate me of course, but this guy was a Calvinist, so that might have made a difference.

So, this guy not only converted over to Calvinism, but it also seem he converted to Lordship Salvation with it’s extreme stress on performance. This may have had a lot to do with this fellow falling away from Christianity.

He does indicate in this particular article that he and his wife having many children, believing this was obeying the Lord might have been the first crack in his faith.

Again, get mad if you want, but there is a big difference between being a Calvinist, and a non-Calvinist. If I had first heard Calvinism preached, I do not believe I would have ever become a Christian.

That said, and to be fair, this doctrine of having a “quiverfull” of children is not limited to Calvinistic Christians, and I ought to know. I have eight children myself. This seems to be what first started his discouragement with the faith.

But I could see an extreme stress on Lordship driving any person away.

Winman:

Here is his article on why he left the faith.

http://brucegerencser.net/series/from-evangelicalism-to-atheism/

Winman:

I read all four articles of how he left the faith, plus several other articles. I believe he tells us what really caused his shift in beliefs, and that was reading many, many books outside the Bible.

Interesting articles, and I do respect this fellow for his honesty.

Van:

From professing Christian to professing Atheist is a good read.

First he was not taught that turning and trusting requires a full blown comment to Christ, as our only priority rather than one of our priorities. Easy Believism claimed another young victim.

Next, he went from the frying pan to the fire, switching to 5 point Calvinism. Which again demonstrates he relied on the writings and thoughts of others (Calvinist books) rather than learning how to critically read God’s inspired word which is trustworthy and reliable and authoritative for living our lives.

Aaron:

My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn’t he just say, I don’t believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you’re-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?

Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.

If Adam couldn’t point at Eve, much less can Bruce point at Christ’s Bride.  

Earth Wind and Fire

Ahhhhh, didn’t you see the DONATIONS button on the right hand side of the blog?

Zaac:

I don’t understand the confusion. He was quite clear. The lives of many Christians look like the lives of the lost. What details are needed? Look at the person you think is a heathen and recognize that when the average lost person looks at the life of a person who says he is a follower of Christ, he doesn’t see anything different.

We excuse away our drinking.
We excuse away our smoking.
We excuse away what we watch.
We excuse away what we listen to.
We excuse away why we disrespect authority.
We excuse away how we support a man who rejects Jesus while purporting to still want folks to come to Christ.
We excuse away the way we dress.
We excuse away our prejudices.
We excuse away our lack of love.
We excuse away our judging outside the church.
We excuse away our gluttony…our gossipping…and our phonyness.
We excuse away our desire to win an argument as defense of the faith.
We excuse away our nastyness in how we respond to others.
We excuse away the truth and ask for unneeded examples when we well know exactly what is being talked about.

Just to name a few.

He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.  

Zaac:

Because that’s what he experienced. People expect to see something different when they go to the church. And lately all they are seeing is folks whose lives look no different than their own.

I mean personally I think some of you have got the nastiest dispositions I’ve ever seen and if I were questioning my faith and encountered a bunch of folks in church who act like some of you, i could understand someone leaving.

Earth Wind and Fire:

If what? Can you convince him better than the Holy Spirit can? See Aaron views him as a reprobate……do you know what that is? Here is where ones point of view as to understanding scripture comes into play…..and I find the whole thing fascinating!

And Go Further with this……look at his wife & her present position & prospective. Then note that they were both raised up in the Fundy church……could there have been any subtle indoctrination going on there? Again utterly fascinating….. From Fundy Baptist Pastor to avowed Atheist. Track the progression……its fun.

Winman:

Here is the article everyone should read;

http://brucegerencser.net/2014/02/stopped-believing/

And here is the REAL reason he lost his faith:

The reason this fellow became an atheist is because he lost faith that the Bible was inerrant, inspired word of God.

That is why I am a King James only, because I MUST believe that God’s perfect and preserved word is in the world today. If I believed it was not, I would throw my Bible in the trashcan and live any way I want.

Now, don’t turn this into a versions debate, I am just saying I can understand this fellow’s point of view. He allowed men to convince him the Bible is not really true, and that very moment his faith failed.

Inspector Javert:

1.) I’m not interested in the carping of Christ-haters. When I was younger, I used to take the accusation and verbal vomitus against Christ’s sheep seriously.

I have since learned that The servants of Satan are constantly searching for ways to excuse their sin and attack the body of Christ. I do not believe in their intellectual honesty, and I care nothing for what they have to say against Christ’s children.

2.) This is (like most accusations against the believers) simply a “but, but, but you people are hypocrites!!” complaint.

“Hypocrisy” is the only concern of those with no morals. It provides the godless with the chance to preen themselves over their goodness since all it takes to not be a “hypocrite” is to have no morality and no moral standards whatsoever.

Call him what you will……but Ted Bundy was no “hypocrite”. He was merely a rapist and murderer.

This man is pointing out the failure of Christians to be perfect as an excuse to live a life for himself and exalt himself against the knowlege of God. Men like this are a dime a dozen…and there are probably 1,000 blogs with men just like him:

Sacrificing their children to the fires of Molech while accusing God’s people of not being perfect.

I simply rejoice that he no longer poisons the pulpit in one of God’s Churches.

Inspector Javert:

The blogger probably doesn’t really have any, that’s why.

The blogger is falling back on a commonly used excuse that he has learned will soothe his conscience. (And he knows all too often that modern Christians will fall for it and laud him for trashing them and the God they serve). He probably has nothing but generalized accusations which cannot be verified or compared nor defended against.

For every imperfect carnal Christian he knows, he can probably point to just as many who live up-standing lives which honor Christ. He won’t want to dwell on specifics….he just wants to latch onto a convenient excuse.

Were he to break down the specifics….he probably knows MANY MANY truly Godly loving wonderful Christian people. I know I do….I see them in Churches everywhere I go.

Annsni:

I think there was an even stronger reason: He was trying to make God meet HIS terms.

JamesL:

I read the article, and it seems to me that the pastor-turned-agnostic/atheist was trying to reconcile tradition with scripture, and simply couldn’t.

He was bound in the shackles of confusion, unable to answer tough questions about evil and sin, supposed righteousness that still looks very evil, carnality in a supposedly righteous saint, worldliness in so many children of God.

I could once relate to his appetite for intellectualism, love of knowledge, his love for books and appreciation for scholarly authority. He wanted to have concrete answers for life’s tough questions, and thought that men could adequately provide them.

I’ve read Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels, with their heavy appeals to the Gnosticism and all their empty rhetoric, and numerous other “scholars” with their pompous claims of authority on spiritual matters.

I’ll admit that those “scholars” make some compelling arguments that appeal to intellectual pride, with the feeling that one has been enlightened above all others. But in the end, they are simply shipwrecked by empty philosophy and a prideful desire to define truth by what seems right in their own eyes

Who goes to a self professed agnostic for concrete answers? By his own admission, he has no concrete answers.

What I see in that agnostic is someone who was convinced of his Christian doctrine by men, and was not firmly grounded in truth by the Holy Spirit. Then when other men came along with seemingly better rationale, he fell headlong into the same ditch.

Van:

From Easy Believism to 5 Point Calvinist to Atheist:

1) Embrace another gospel, one that values dead faith.

2) Embrace the idea that nothing we do will change the outcome of our lives.

3) Therefore embrace atheism, since nothing we do will alter the outcome of our lives.

One, two, three – its as easy as taking broccoli from a baby.

Rightousdude2:

I can’t see any rational person, especially one who came to Jesus, become an atheist. When I look into the night sky, I know, that I KNOW, that there is a creator of that massive expanse. When I gaze into a mirror and see the wonders of the human body and the miraculous things that needed to happen in order for life to exist [just the mystery and chemistry of blood, blood gases, etc.] are a marvel that tells me there is more to this life than what we see, feel, touch and assume to know!

The personality and love of God are all around us, and once a person reckons with themselves that there is a creator, and that creator is Jehovah Jireh … to turn back to empty beliefs makes me wonder if the guy ever, EVER believed beyond simple book knowledge.

In my heart of hearts …. there may be fleeting wisps of doubt [where the devil will try to whisper in my ear, our you sure. Are you REALLY sure?], but when it comes down to atheism versus God and creation, there is no other choice or option, at least for me!

In fact, with age has come wisdom, and I think the devil has about given up on me; because he got tired of asking me if I was really sure? Because each time he asked, I came up with more reasons to believe. He saw that wasn’t working! That’s the neat thing about the devil, you and temptaton! The more he tempts us, the more confident we become in our faith … because temptations [at least for me] always takes me back to square one, and once I’m there [at square one], the decision to give that temptation a boot in its red hot rear, becomes just that much easier.

Maybe that’s why he only tempted Jesus three times. Once he heard the answers, he decided that it was a hopeless battle plan.

So, IMHO, I can’t see a true believer giving way to atheism!

evenifigoalone:

I can kinda see it happening, in a way. Just going by my own experiences in the past with doubts, I mean. But in the end, God wouldn’t let me leave and I came out of those experiences more encouraged than ever before.

I tend to agree that a true believer will never be able to truly leave, but at the same time I can see how the arguments of atheism can seem very persuasive. IDK, I can see and kinda understand the thinking behind atheism, even though I’m quite sure it’s false. If I weren’t a believer and didn’t have a faith in God or experienced the things I have, I’d probably be an agnostic atheist.

Earth Wind and Fire:

Correct….he was always a reprobate but he has added whistle blowers to his resume….and now he takes donations! I find that hilarious….now he is a hypocrate with a tin cup.

jkdbuck76:

Sounds like he was not grounded and was double-minded. I’d sooner put a gun to head and pull the trigger than go to websites about debunking Christianity “for answers”. He did it to himself. If he truly is an atheist, then he was NEVER indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Bruce is gonna have to answer FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS on the dreaded Day of Judgment, and “gee, American Christians were too worldly” will not cut it. The goal is Christ, not our peers.

Here is the better thing: how many former atheists are now Christians and even pastors? Let’s focus on them. See what God has done in their lives.

Earth Wind and Fire:

The only thing he wants outa you is a donation

In 2016, is Bruce Gerencser saved?

bruce-gerencser-heaven-after-death

jppt1974:

Praying for him to go back to Christ before he leaves this earth or Jesus comes back on the white colt! To get us all. Will leave it at that!  

JonC:

While it is impossible for me to know, I suspect that Mr. Gerencser is a man who came to a particular realization prior to hearing those words “I never knew you.” The reason I say this is he presents himself as being indoctrinated rather than converted into the faith. I appreciate his honesty here because I believe it a legitimate issue in how we work with those “born into the church.”

As Christians we are, I believe, told to take the man at his words. We judge the fruit, not the heart, and are to treat him as if he is as lost as his profession indicates. We are fruit inspectors – not botanists.

JamesL:

This was posted here a year or so ago….by ? I don’t remember

Anywho…

I very much appreciate his distinction between theological fundamentalist and social Fundamentalist

he makes some unwarranted assumptions and runs with them, such as the notion that every Evangelical would agree with the idea that we are to obey everything contained in the Bible.

I know that is the right wing, fanatic, Fundamentalist, legalistic way. However, a true Evangelical who is sharing the good news of the Cross of Christ will recognize that we are not obligated to the Mosaic law.

But I appreciate the man’s candor. And I can sympathize with the fact that he was brainwashed by a fundamentalism which does not stand up to scripture

I think he was taught to have unrealistic expectations, and was not able to shake them. And that ultimately shook his faith

I think it would be very interesting to sit across the table from him, maybe a different doctrinal take would have yielded different fruit

Salty:

What is interesting is that over a period of a couple of years – he visted scores of churches – Bap, Protestants, Catholic, Mennonite – Methodist – you name it, he probably attended.

He did not find any that he felt comfortable in.

TCassidy:

agree, in this case, that we should take him at his word and treat him as an unbeliever. However, we must also remember that “by their fruits ye shall know them” in Matthew 7 is referring to false prophets. We can know false prophets by their false teaching. But it is a one way street. You cannot tell whether or not a person is saved by his fruit, or lack thereof.

TCassidy:

When a person can’t find any church he can agree with and feel comfortable in, we can rest assured the problem is not the churches, it is the person.

Tim71:

If this man is saved. Wouldn’t Hebrews chapter 12 vs 5 thru 11 apply? If you’re Gods child he going to take you to the wood shed and if you continue in disobedience he will call you home.

evangelist6589:

False convert who was a victim of the modern gospel message. Refer to Judas and a passage in the Synoptics of the many that will stand before him on the day of judgment.

This is all the more important why we must preach law to the proud and grace for the humble.  

Bro James:

Ain’t no atheists in heaven–none headed there either.

Ecumenism is alive and growing on planet Earth.

The Lord knows them that are His, and they are sealed forever.

Now what? Pray for the lost and others deluded.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Earth Wind and Fire:

BINGO!!!!

You also notice that he is enormous! Out of that his health has been affected.

To quote my hero, Reggie Van Gleason……”Boy, are you fat!

BlueFalcon:

I prefer not to engage in the question whether he was ever really saved or not, whether he will still be in heaven or not. I have my own view, but those questions miss the point of his blog posts.

So-called deconversion is all the rage now. Several things seem to have led to Mr. Gerencser’s deconversion.

His parents’ divorce. He does not mention this as a cause or even talk about it in the linked posts. Still I would like to probe his mind to know if he thought at the time that one of his parents must have been not a true believer. Divorce is kind of like the unpardonable sin. One can do anything just about and still serve in the church unless one’s divorced.

His education at Midwestern Baptist College seems to have differed greatly from the real or critical scholars he read later, leading to disillusionment or the feeling that he was lied to or not told the truth about much of the Bible. In this sense it’s somewhat Ehrmanesqe, except that Ehrman came to his conclusion much earlier than Gerencser, probably much to Gerencser’s chagrin.

The Hyles scandal. He does not go into much detail, but reading in between the lines, if the best Christian man in the world is a damned narcissistic heretic liar, the whole thing is rigged and the fools are those who stay in the church to be preyed upon by these predators.

Many other scandals and in general the hatefulness of so-called Christians and many other adjectives to describe almost every church (over 300 apparently) since he stopped pastoring.

Readers need to read his blog for themselves. It is an indictment from an atheist who once was on the inside. Ironically, the indictment (namely points 3 and 4 above) is not unlike Jesus’ own indictment against some of the best known and on-fire churches of the first century (Rev. chs. 2-3).

BlueFalcon:

After reading a couple dozen of Gerencser’s blog posts, one conclusion is certain: Christianity as he taught and practiced is totally bankrupt and always has been, evidenced by his own words and ultimate experience of deconversion. In one post he talks about being angry at another pastor for not just having a TV (Gerencser didn’t) but watching it Saturday night when he should have been praying and preparing his message. Can you say, pharisaical? Apparently in his Baptist circles at the time all the pastors lived in separate mobile homes within earshot of each other on church property.

Gerencser has a long post on why he hates Jesus, or at least the “Jesus” construct he was taught and spent most of his life “living” for. His version of Christianity and the many pastors he depicts within that circle are, when you read his posts, picture-perfect of the biblical Pharisees, those whitewashed sepulchers, judging others but who are guilty in thought or deed of the same things for which they judge others. And it is against these hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus reserved his highest calls of condemnation. The NT Pharisees hated Jesus, so why should modern day Pharisees hate him any less? These posts on why he hates Jesus, at least, give a good idea of his version of Christianity.

Gerencser uses profanity in most of the posts I read. As an outsider looking into this man’s somewhat vulnerable posts, I wonder when this started or if he’s always been a proficient cusser. On occasion Gerencser confesses his outbursts of anger and verbally abusive language. What Gerencser has not posted much of, at least not in what I’ve read so far, are any private character flaws (he doesn’t believe in sin anymore, by the way). So on the one hand, his posts seem pretty vulnerable, but on the other, after reading them one feels like he isn’t sharing the whole truth about his inner self (not that that’s wrong — it’s his own blog, after all — but the impression he gives is that he’s baring all, when the feeling I get after reading is that he’s hiding most of his real vulnerabilities).

His main reason for deconverting is clear from other posts. He no long believed that the Bible was inerrant or inspired, and further that the God presented in the Bible was evil and not worthy of belief. Theodicy is a major problem for Gerencser. On more than one occasion he says something to the effect that if God could help his own pain or suffering or for that matter that of millions of others, he has chosen not to. That makes sense to him now, since to him God doesn’t even exist.

It is also clear from Gerencser’s posts that he is really into himself, constantly checking how often links to his blog are clicked, by whom they are clicked, how many times each person has clicked a link, etc. He really likes to state how much he likes to read, how many books he has read, etc. etc. I have and have read three of the four books by Ehrman he recommends (I’m lacking How Jesus Became God) — all of which are beginner and popular level — and even some of his he didn’t, like his The NT: A Historical Intro and The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, which are more scholarly, especially the latter one, which is my favorite Ehrman book by far.

Gerencser seems insincere in that he says he doesn’t want to disturb anyone or keep anyone from turning from Christianity, but if the God of Christians is really as evil as he says, then Gerencser himself is pretty evil for not trying to keep every last person in the world from believing in this evil God construct that destroys the lives of anyone and everyone who may be deceived into believing in it.

Reading his blog makes me appreciate even more Francis Schaefer’s The Great Evangelical Disaster. How prescient that man was!

I may read more of his blog as I have time. He seems to think of himself as sincere. He says he deals even handedly with both atheists and Christians, but just reading the comments section one can see that the atheists are allowed to use invective cursing and all manner of ad hominem attacks against the Christians, but Christians are quickly blocked if they happen to post a Bible verse (a violation of one of his rules). So his sincerity is quite self-contrived. I will never post on his blog. I wonder though why anyone would. I take that back. I can see why atheists and former “Evangelicals” from the same swamp of damned pharisaism that he hails from, jump in for the proverbial high-fives. I’m sure these at least provide a good level of self-gratification for his efforts.

Finally, I actually approve of his blog and recommend it. It’s easy to read and actually quite helpful. It is hoped that his blog will keep as many people as possible from entering the kind of churches that he was a part of and that the numbers in those churches will continue to dwindle until they are no more. And may the true church of Jesus Christ last forever. Amen.  

John of Japan:

So you are accepting the depiction of an atheist apostate of the pastors in his “circle” without hesitation?

I don’t run in that IFB circle per se, but my wife graduated from the same Bible college, and I know some of the men who graduated from there. In fact, I knew the founding pastor, and he was a greatly used man of God. My wife’s pastor was on the board of the school for years, and he is one of the most godly men I’ve ever known and a dear friend. He is now retired from the ministry, and it is always a joy to spend time with him and his extremely sweet wife.

Frankly, I think it’s pretty silly of you to accept the word of a bitter, atheist apostate about Baptist pastors; oh, yes, and also to recommend an atheist apostate’s blog.

annsni:

I wonder if sometimes God doesn’t use an unregenerate person for a time to bring His message to people – similar to Baalam’s donkey. I would say this man was never saved – the “epiphany” seems quite suspect, IMO.

Aaron:

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Whiter Than Snow Appliances Owner Todd Frederick Warns People About the Evil Atheist Bruce Gerencser

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
bruce gerencser not afraid of hell

As most writers do, I pay attention to where my name and writing show up on the Internet. From time to time, I will stumble upon Evangelical blogs and forums having “discussions” about my story or something I have written. Today, I saw a new search engine, mojeek.com, in this site’s server logs. I typed my name in a search field, hit enter, and up came the results for “Bruce Gerencser.” I saw the usual results, but sprinkled here and there were sites I had not seen before. One such result was for Whiter than Snow Appliances, owned by a Fundamentalist Baptist named Tom Frederick.

In 2018, I wrote a post about Frederick titled Fundamentalist Baptist Man Tells Me I Am Following the Humanistic Teachings of Shaitan. I plan to bump this post to the front page, making it easily accessible to readers. Please give it a read to better understand Fredrick and his beliefs.

What my search revealed is that Frederick has a WARNING on his business’ website about me. Here’s the WARNING he placed on the front page of his business site (all spelling and grammar in the original):

If you have found WTSA  by being tagged to a Bruce Gerencser’s atheist website then realize that he is on a mission to troll and dox us because I confronted him for his blasphemies. We advised you not to waste your time by visiting his site lest his atheism and vulgar writings, laced with curse words, get into your minds, start appealling to your logic then start corrupting your soul.

Read II Corin. 10:5 – KJV…

Shalom, WTSA

Evidently, my words are powerful. If Christians listen to them, they will get into their minds, appeal to their logic, and corrupt their souls. OMG, I must be Satan himself! 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

It is all About Me, I Mean You, Jesus: Trolling for Hey-Zeus

Bruce Gerencser 11 Comments
christian troll

Warning! Full bore Bruce Almighty snark ahead!

Here is a Facebook message I received today:

Brother can i ask you why you are so angry…brother you are in my prayers and know that the Lord our God loves you with an everlasting love..

Here is my response:

First, you don’t know me.

Second, I am not your brother.

Third, you can’t possibly know if I am angry. You don’t have some sort of special gift to sense emotions through a computer screen.

Fourth, I am not angry. I am sitting here contemplating the fact that my youngest daughter will be married tomorrow. I am performing the ceremony. I am happy, even though I am in excruciating physical pain and I have to respond to someone like you.

Fifth, I have no interest in your God. I have no need of your God and his mythical love. I am a satisfied, happy atheist.

Sixth, by all means pray. Since I think your God is a mythical being, your prayers cannot help or hurt. If it makes you feel better to pray, go ahead.

Seventh, is it your normal behavior to troll Facebook pages offering psychological assessments and un-requested prayer? If so, you might want to try a different approach. Over the past eight years, hundreds of people have tried the same approach and failed miserably. What makes you think that YOUR words will have any effect?

In the the name of reason, Bruce

Troll’s response, with my snarky responses in [brackets]:

Well first of all congratulation on your daughter marriage, Second I just spence [sense] you were [angry]  and I am sorry [No you are not.] I was wrong. I do not troll face book [Yes you do.] I am not why your even come up [It must have been God.]..as for praying I alway will because that is what God has called me to do [Did God tell you to pray for Bruce Gerencser at 345 E Main St in Ney, Ohio on April 1, 2016 at 10:25 PM EST?] as for failing you I haven’t failed you you have fail my God [How could I fail someone who doesn’t exist?] …my words will have no effect but God word do effect people lives. [I know all of God’s words. Let’s play Bible trivia.] God bless you [How can he? I am a God-hating atheist who, with full knowledge of what he is doing, spits in the face of your God. According to the Bible I am God’s enemy, a reprobate.]  and have a wonderful day tomorrow with your daughter and family…I have five daughters and three son and only one is married,it hard to see our children grow up and leave the nest..blessing friend.. [Thanks for the let me play nice ending to what was a really bad idea. Lesson learned? Don’t email atheists, They bite.]

I have zero tolerance for Evangelicals who do these kinds of things. I am polite, but direct. Point made. End of discussion. What’s for dinner? Maybe a roll in the hay later with my hot, angry, godless wife.

Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Depression and Lightening the Load

Bruce Gerencser 23 Comments
eeyore

Updated, corrected, rewritten, expanded

I have battled depression most of my adult life. For many years, I denied that I was depressed, attributing my melancholy to God testing or trying me, Satan tempting me, or God punishing me for this or that sin. My religious beliefs told me that depression was a sign of a backslidden, sinful, or rebellious life. After all, the Bible says in Isaiah 26:3:

Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee [God]: because he trusteth in thee.

Psalm 43:5 states:

Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

The Apostle Paul — a First Century Tony Robbins and Wayne Dyer — had this to say:

 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. (Philippians 4:4)

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18)

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)

Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. (Philippians 4:11)

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. (2 Timothy 1:7)

And if these verses weren’t enough, there was always the “look at all Jesus suffered on the cross just so you could be saved and go to Heaven someday!” Compared to what Jesus went through, my depression was nothing. (Please see I Wish Christians Would be Honest About Jesus’ Three Day Weekend.)

I had numerous colleagues in the ministry, but talking to them about my depression was not an option. Talking to them meant admitting I was weak or “sinful.” I never considered seeking out the help of a psychiatrist or a psychologist. How could I? I had preached numerous sermons on the aforementioned verses, and on my bookshelf sat books such as Psycho-Heresy: The Psychological Seduction of Christianity by Wayne and Deidre Bobgan and PsychoBabble: The Failure of Modern Psychology–and the Biblical Alternative by Richard Ganz. No, I concluded that I was the problem.

I now know that having a Type A personality and being a perfectionist and a workaholic didn’t help matters. No matter how hard I worked, I never measured up. The church growth craze of the 1970s and 1980s only exacerbated my depression. The ministry was reduced to a set of numbers: attendance, souls saved, and offerings. Push, push, push. Go, go, go. Do, do, do. Much like a crack addict seeking his latest fix, I focused on attendance increases and souls brought to Jesus to push my depression into the background. And as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, declining attendance and a lack of “God working in our midst” forced my depression to the forefront. I spent countless nights alone in the darkness of the church building praying to God, pleading that he would fill me with the Holy Spirit and use me to bring in a large harvest of souls. In the end, no matter how hard I worked or how much I sacrificed— money, family, and health — it was never enough. Success was a temporary elixir that soothed my depression, but its effect soon wore off and I retreated for the thousandth time into the deep, dark recesses of my mind.

depression

In 2005, two years after I left the ministry, I told Polly I needed professional psychological help. It took me another three years before I was willing to pick up the phone and make an appointment. At first, finding a “Christian” counselor was important to me. Once I found one, I then had second thoughts about people seeing me entering his office or noticing my car in the parking lot. I live in an area where almost everyone knows me — both as a pastor and now as an atheist. It wasn’t until I deconverted that I began calling counselors, hoping to find a non-religious, secular counselor. Fortunately, I found just the right person to help peel away the layers of my life, allowing me to finally embrace my depression and find ways of handling what Dexter the serial killer called his “dark passenger.” Late last year, I started seeing a new counselor, a woman. My first counselor and I had become friends (a common problem in long-term counseling relationships), so I knew it was time for me to see someone new.

Readers who have been with me since the days of blogs named Bruce Droppings, NW Ohio Skeptic, The Way Forward, and Fallen From Grace have helplessly watched me repeatedly psychologically crash and burn, only to rise again out of the ashes like a phoenix. Surprisingly, the current iteration of my blog has been active for seven years. I attribute the length of my success to the help I’ve received from my counselors. That said, I can’t guarantee that I might not, in the future, crash. I’ve told myself that if that happens again, I’m done blogging.

Some days, I feel like I have tied a knot on the rope of my life and I am desperately trying to hold on. There are days when I feel my grip slipping, leaving me to wonder if I can make it through another day. I do what I can. Whether that will be enough remains to be seen. Health problems, especially chronic pain and bowel problems, continue to drive my depression and virtually every other aspect of my life. I can’t escape these things. All I know to do is endure.

As depressives will tell you, small problems often pile up for them and turn into full-blown depressive episodes. I mean, suicide level, I can’t deal with this any longer episodes. My counselor is keenly aware of how quickly things can pile up for me. Starting with chronic illnesses, unrelenting pain, loss of mobility, and decreased cognitive function, my plate is quite full before I even get out of bed — that is, if I can get out of bed.

Recent events have filled my plate as I would on Thanksgiving Day. What’s one more helping of ham, turkey, and candied sweet potatoes, right? While I find it too painful to write about many of the things that have been added to my plate, I have talked to my counselor about how overwhelmed I am with life. She encourages me to focus on what is best for me, and not “fixing” the problems of others. I am not sure how well I can heed his advice, but I am trying.

I have written all this to say that I must continue to find ways to “lighten my load.” My health will never be as good as it is today, and someday I will likely be unable to leave my home. In the interest of improving the quality of what life I have left, I must identify the unnecessary things that are weighing me down and cast them aside. This is not easy for me to do. Giving in has never been my strong suit. I hate to let go of things (and people) who have been very much a part of my life for as long as I can remember. Over the past few months, I have made a concerted to downsize and simplify my life. I sold all my photography equipment. Boy, was this hard. Even worse, I am turning my office into a pantry and a storage room. Gone will be the metal desk I’ve owned for almost forty years — a M.A.S.H. era desk. Most of my 4,000+ plus sermons were crafted on my desk. Countless couples and church members sat across from me, telling me their woes. I used this desk every day for most of my adult life — until I couldn’t. Thanks to herniated discs in my back and neck, I can no longer use the desk. Saying goodbye to my dear friend brought tears, but I knew it was the right thing to do. My oldest son will soon move my desk to his home. I wonder if I should tell him what Mom and Dad did on that desk? 🙂

It goes without saying, that above everything I could ever do or own, I deeply love my wife, children, and grandchildren (and yes, my daughters-in-law and son-in-law too). As illness and pain whittle down my life, I am learning that what matters most is love and family. The praise of congregants and the approbation of fellow clergy are but distant memories. I would trade all of them for one day without pain. We silly humans so often focus on things that don’t matter. Age brings perspective, and what really matters — at least to me — fits on a small Post-it note. And even now, I continue to mark through things on my list. I suspect that when death claims me for its own, my list will contain a handful of names and the words “they loved me until the end.”

Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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A Baptist Pastor Asks Me Some Questions

Bruce Gerencser 12 Comments
jesus
Painting by Jessie Kohn

Several days ago, I received two emails from a Baptist pastor named Stacey. What follows is my response to his emails. My response is indented and italicized. I appreciate Stacey’s polite, respectful tone — a rare experience for me with Evangelical preachers

Email One

I was raised in a Christian home and have been preaching for 18 years. I pastor a small congregation in Arkansas. I came across your blog about a year ago and it has intrigued me greatly.

Thank you for taking the time to actually read my writing. Far too often, Evangelicals read a post or two and then go into attack mode. Their goal is not to learn. I am viewed as their enemy, one unworthy of kindness, decency, and respect. I have received thousands of comments and emails from Evangelicals over the years. Few have been respectful and polite. Their goal seems to be to discredit me or deconstruct my life instead of genuinely trying to understand my story.

I can empathize with all of the things you went through as a Christian and especially as a pastor of a church. Sometimes church people can be downright ignorant, mean spirited and even cruel. I will not make excuses for these people or try to explain it away. People are people even when they become religious.

By far, the worst people have been Evangelical pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and professors. And then there’s Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) They are in a class all their own –overwhelmingly nasty, arrogant, and violent.

I only want to ask how you explain the historical accounts of Jesus. I know you are well educated with not only the bible but other historical accounts of his life. I may have missed this explanation in some of your other blogs and I have read most of them. I am sure you know of Lee Strobel and his Book, The Case for Christ, if Jesus did exist in history, then what do you say about him? Was he just a good man? Was his death and supposed resurrection a hoax? Just curious what you believe or better yet think on it.

We have very little evidence for the existence of Jesus. I am not saying we have no evidence. The Bible certainly contains history, but the challenge is decoupling myth and exaggeration from history. I take a minimalist approach to Jesus. He lived and died in first-century Palestine. We have no evidence for the miraculous claims found in the Bible, including Jesus’s resurrection from the dead.

Non-Biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus is scant, especially when you carefully examine the sources. I am of the opinion that if Jesus was all that Christians say he was, there would be a lot more evidence for their claims than what we have. We have no first-hand accounts, including the gospels.

I am aware of all the “evidence” for Jesus, I just don’t find it persuasive; not enough for me to bow down and worship him or devote my life to serving him. Christianity requires “faith,” a faith I do not have.

If you have not read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books, I encourage you to do so. Ehrman is a New Testament scholar at the University of North Carolina. I found his books helpful when trying to understand the history and nature of the Bible. I would be glad to recommend several book titles if you are interested in checking them out.

I read Strobel’s book years ago. As an Evangelical pastor, I found it persuasive. Now that I have all the evidence at my disposal, I find his book unpersuasive and “simple.”

Email Two

I sent an email asking what your thoughts were on the historical accounts of Jesus were. I have read what you think of the western Jesus, you hate him I know.

The post Stacey is referencing is titled, Why I Hate Jesus — a polemical article about the Jesus of Evangelical Christianity. It is the most widely read post on this site six years running.

I want to know what you think of the Jesus that history records. Was this historical Jesus just a really good hoax that fooled believers then and is still fooling believers today?

Jesus was a flesh and blood person who lived and died. The religion that came to life after his execution for crimes against the state was primarily shaped by the Apostle Paul. I would argue that Jesus’s Christianity is very different from Paul’s; that there are at least five plans of salvation taught in the Bible: blood sacrifice, obedience to the law found in the Old Testament, and Paul’s Jesus’, James’ and Peter’s plans of salvation found in the New Testament.

Christian’s are taught to harmonize the books/texts of the Bible; that there is some sort of grand story and theme running through the pages of the Bible. I encourage people to read the Bible vertically, taking each book and author(s) as stand alone texts. Doing this will present a very different picture from the one painted historically by Christians. Take Genesis 1-3. Evangelicals typically read Trinitarian theology into the text. Reading Genesis 1-3 as a stand-alone text reveals a very different picture — one with multiple deities.

I know you are thinking, how could it all be a myth? Consider Mormonism for a moment, a religion you likely believe is false or a cult. Look at the foundation myths of Mormonism and its rapid growth and ask yourself how this is any different from the foundation and expansion of Christianity.

I can fully understand hating the Jesus that you have described but will you take a moment to tell me what you think of the historical Jesus that many history scholars say did exist. The Jesus that I have researched historically is the one that keeps me from doing as you have done and renouncing my Faith as well. I have found enough evidence in historical writings that make me believe in him. Unless those writings have been compromised and tainted as well. What are your thoughts?

At the end of the day, every person must look at the extant evidence and decide accordingly. For me personally, I do not find the evidence persuasive. And even if I did, I doubt I would worship the God of the Bible. I find the God of the Bible to be reprehensible, a violent, genocidal deity undeserving of my fealty.

I hope I have adequately answered your questions.

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Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Atheists Are Ingrates Who Refuse to Acknowledge the Goodness of God

Bruce Gerencser 12 Comments
david j stewart

Truly, April Fool’s Day is a fitting holiday for all the Communistic, Rock-n-Rolling, Satanic, immoral, child-murdering, feminist, ATHEISTS in the world. There’s not a bigger bunch of fools on the planet.

….

When the truth is revealed, there’s no such thing as an atheist. There are only ingrates who refuse to acknowledge the goodness and omnipotent power of God. Romans 1:20 confirms that there is no such thing as an atheist. All the proof anyone needs of God is found right outside your front door, which is why on Judgment Day all professed atheists will be without excuse. I assure you that there are no atheists in Hell.

Do you know where most atheists are from? They come out of heathen State universities. Most young people profess to be homosexuals in a heathen university, which is where they are indoctrinated with that garbage. Most people decide to become atheist [sic] in some heathen school. Colossians 2:4 and 18, “And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. … Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.” The Scriptures warn about taking unsound advice from unsaved people.

— David Stewart, April 1st is National Atheists Day, March 31, 2021

Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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One Man’s Journey From Evangelicalism to Atheism

Bruce Gerencser 4 Comments
guest post

A guest post by John

I was born in Memphis, Tennessee, in 1968. My family moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma, in 1972 and this is where I grew up. My parents were not very religious, just enough to not go to hell. We attended a Presbyterian church sporadically through my teenage years. When I was 12, I went to a YMCA summer camp. Most of the counselors were Bible college students. One night, around a fire with other campers, I heard the gospel for the first time that I remember. It included, of course, if I didn’t believe and pray the sinner’s prayer, I would go to hell. Well, what 12-year-old wants to go to hell? So I prayed the prayer, was given a Bible, and was told to read it every day. My Presbyterian parents were wary of my newfound zeal for God and the Bible. I was in and out of church through high school and college. Sometimes I would be zealous about my faith, and sometimes not.

After college, I got a job as an assistant manager at a restaurant in 1993. Most of the servers and several of the kitchen staff were Bible school students. This restaurant did not serve alcohol, so it attracted more Christians than other places. Most of these were from the charismatic/word of faith crowd. At first, I thought they were nuts! But they grew on me after a while. I started going to a large church of this flavor, because of a girl, of course. I played trumpet in the orchestra and was really enjoying it. Eventually, I married the girl that I followed to church and wound up going to a Bible school in the Tulsa area. After graduating, I went to work for the church/ministry that was associated with the Bible school. It wasn’t perfect, but I did enjoy my time there.

A few years later, in 1999, we moved to Memphis “at the leading of the Lord” and hooked up with a similar church here. I was also doing some teaching in churches around Memphis and the surrounding area. We wound up leaving that church and helping someone else start a church in the area. I was the associate pastor and youth pastor — volunteer, of course. Ugh. I also continued to be invited to other churches to speak and was really enjoying it. Until I wasn’t. We started seeing things in many churches that were troubling so we quit going to church for a while. We began meeting other Christians in homes and people would take turns teaching. This was around 2011. After one of these Bible studies, a couple asked me about tithing. We were taught that 10% of your income goes to the church. They had very little money at the time and were feeling bad that they couldn’t tithe. I asked them to study the topic and I did the same. So, I did an in-depth study on tithing. And guess what? What I’d been taught, with limited scripture often taken out of context, isn’t what the Bible says about tithing! I was like, well shit. If I’m wrong about that, what else am I wrong about? Around this time, I started getting interested in secular Buddhism, so my cover-to-cover Bible study was put off for a couple of years.

Around 2014, I started a 2-year, in-depth study of the Bible, the history of the Bible, and the history of the church. Probably my first big revelation was that I stopped believing in hell. Then I pretty much stopped believing in heaven. Then I stopped believing in creationism/Adam and Eve. And it all starts to crumble at that point. No Adam and Eve, no original sin, no need for a savior, etc. Then learning about how the Bible was put together, well shit, it was just a bunch of men who put it together. So much didn’t fit and didn’t make sense anymore. Like many have said, the Bible made me an atheist. Also, just looking at things like prayer and my rate of “answered” prayers. I could have prayed to my cat and gotten the same results! It was about 50/50. Except in one area where I was 100%. Everyone I’ve prayed for to live, who had a terminal, untreatable condition, all died of that condition or complications related to it. Every single one. As I got further away from religion, I started to realize how far away I had gotten from critical thinking. It’s sometimes hard to look back and realize that I believed in the creation story, Noah’s flood, talking animals, demons, angels, etc. But when a person is told that these things are true from a young age, by people they love and trust, you just believe them.

My wife is still a very devout Christian, maybe more so than ever, so that’s been interesting to navigate. She knows my beliefs have changed a lot, but not the full extent of my atheism. Only a couple of people do. All of my family and wife’s family are believers. Most of my friends are believers. I’m not ready yet to come out fully. I’m not sure that I will to everyone.

I’ve noticed some interesting things since leaving my faith. The first thing that comes to mind is that nothing happened. My cats didn’t die, my car didn’t break down, my life didn’t fall apart, etc. In fact, life has gotten better since I left my faith! I’m mentally and emotionally much healthier. I went through a long depression as a believer. I prayed, I read my Bible, I made confessions, I had others pray for me . . . and it just got worse. The group of Christians I had been around were very anti-medication for this kind of thing. It got bad enough I finally went to a good psychiatrist who put me on medication that worked wonderfully! I stopped praying and started learning about how the brain works, how thought patterns are formed, how my diet affects my moods. I started meditating. These things helped me SO much more than prayer and the Bible.

Another thing that I’ve noticed is that I’m much less judgmental and definitely more open-minded. I’m just a better human. I don’t think I was ever a super judgmental asshole. But, religion certainly tainted my worldview. Everything from politics to atheism to the LGBTQ+ community to people of other faiths to music to what I read and watch on tv, and so on. I like who I am now! I never felt like I could like myself as a Christian because we are nothing without Jesus and all that shit.

So, yeah, I am enjoying life much more as an atheist. It’s so nice to not have set in stone, dogmatic beliefs. At first, it was really uncomfortable to not have those solid beliefs. But now I’m used to it and it’s very freeing. As a Christian, I always heard that we were free in Jesus. It is the “sinners” that are bound. Now I see that it is just the opposite. Religion binds you up, letting go of that shit is really what sets you free.

Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Connect with me on social media:

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce Gerencser