Evangelicals-turned-atheists are often accused by Christian zealots of being angry and/or bitter. The goal is to dismiss the intellectual reasons people deconvert, painting former Evangelicals as emotionally damaged goods. By doing this, Evangelicals are free to say things such as, you are just mad at God or my all-time favorite, someone hurt you. Of course, this argument works both ways. Few Christian converts convert solely for intellectual reasons. I have heard hundreds of salvation testimonies over the years, and every one of them had an emotional component. In fact, for some testifiers, that’s all their testimony had. I’ve even seen deader-than-dead Calvinists get a bit emotional when talking about the wonders of being chosen by God from before the foundation of the world.
Many Evangelicals-turned-atheists were devoted, on-fire, committed followers of Jesus Christ. They were, in every way, True Christians®. These former Evangelicals loved Jesus, often daily spending time praying, reading and studying the Bible, and sharing their faith. Thoroughly committed to God’s Kingdom, they liberally gave their time and money to their churches. Some of them went further still, answering the call of God to be pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and teachers. When critics question my devotion, I find myself thinking, would anyone live the way I lived if they didn’t really believe what they were selling? Of course not.
For many Evangelicals-turned-atheists, Jesus had seeped into every fiber of their being. The words that flowed from their mouths spoke often of Jesus and the wonders of his grace. Married to Jesus, they only had eyes for him. Satan and the world would sometimes cause them to stray, but these followers of Jesus were quick to seek forgiveness, knowing that sin marred their relationship with God. Their motto was only one life twill soon be past, only what’s done for Christ will last. Better to burn out than rust out for Jesus, they cried.
And yet, these followers of Jesus no longer believe. Instead of attempting to understand their stories, critics focus on their emotions. I have had hundreds of Christians tell me that I am angry, bitter, jaded, or hurt. For a long time, I refused to admit that emotions played a part in my deconversion. I wanted my decision to leave Christianity to be judged on an intellectual basis, not an emotional one. Through counseling, I was able to see that it was okay for me to be angry and bitter. It was okay for me to feel hurt by the words and actions of those who once considered me their friend, pastor, or colleague in the ministry.
Many Evangelicals-turned-atheists go through an angry phase. As these former servants of the Most High God reflect on their failed marriage to Jesus, they become angry over the time and money they spent chasing a lie. It is perfectly normal to feel this way. The same can be said for bitterness. As I reflect on the thirty-three years I spent preaching the gospel, I can’t help but be bitter as I think about the sacrifices made by my family and me for the sake of the “cause.” I gave up everything to follow Jesus, choosing poverty over wealth and deprivation over comfort. And now, I face the consequences of these choices.
The key, for me anyway, is to channel my emotions into my writing and helping people who are considering leaving Christianity or who have already left. If every blog post of mine was an angry rant against Christianity, atheists and Christians alike would soon tire of me and move on. If I spent all my time whining and complaining about how bad my life now is thanks to Christianity, why before long even my wife would stop reading.
My point is this: emotional responses to leaving Christianity are absolutely normal. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The key is what to do with those emotions. It’s not healthy to spend life angry and bitter. I met plenty of such people in the churches I pastored; bitter, angry, mean people who took out their “love” for Jesus on anyone who dared to cross them. Instead, let your emotions fuel your passion for a better tomorrow — one not dominated by ignorance and religious superstition. Start a blog, write a book. Do whatever YOU want to do. Now that you are freed from guilt-inducing Christianity, you are free to throw yourself into whatever floats your boat. Want to take your anger and channel it into being an atheist stripper named Darwina? Go ahead. The only person standing in your way is you!
And sometimes, just because you can, it is okay to tell overbearing, deaf, in-your-face Evangelicals to go fuck themselves. Then, kiss your significant other and say, Life is good!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
“Evangelicals believe that humans, Christian or not, are incapable of good works; that all goodness comes from the Christian God; that works apart from God that “seem” good are actually done for the wrong motivations and reasons.”
I don’t know what “Evangelicals” believe, but this is wrong according to the Word of God.
Prooftexting deleted.
What Chris mean is this: according to my personal interpretation of the Protestant Christian Bible, this is wrong. There’s no such thing as a “right” interpretation. Every sect, every pastor, every Christian thinks their beliefs are right. That’s why I believe everyone is right. There’s no wrong interpretation of the Bible. Every sect, pastor, and Christian defends their beliefs by appealing to the Bible. How, then, do we know who is right and who is wrong?
Christians have been arguing with each other for 2,000 years. Jesus was barely dead before Paul, Peter, and James got into arguments over what constituted salvation. Who’s right? How could we possibly know?
The Bible is a hopelessly contradictory and confusing collection of books. Countless books have been written over the centuries attempting to defend this or that theological belief. Yet, there are thousands of Christian sects, each believing they hold to the “faith once delivered to the saints.” Calvinists vs. Arminians. Charismatics vs. Oneness Pentecostals. Baptists vs. Church of Christ. Over the years, I have been told by countless Christians that I am saved, I am lost, I am saved, I am lost . . . Each Christian thinks they have it figured out. Me? I’m content to pop some popcorn, grab a comfy seat, and settle in to watch the bloody internecine wars Christians are fond of fighting. The world will know we are Christians by our love, the Bible says. How is that working out?
The point that much of Christianity get wrong is that they view “salvation” as a one off thing that happens at the declaration of faith, and run from works, calling it “works based salvation” or “legalism”. No, we are supposed to have works – we are supposed to do good. But we should do those works out of love, not because we believe the works themselves make us righteous. We are told to walk as Jesus walked – and Jesus did many works. Paul is also an example to us, and who worked harder than he?
Again, Chris says much of Christianity is “wrong.” What is the basis for his assertion? His personal interpretations of the Bible — his personal opinion. There’s no such thing as absolute truth, authoritative truth. Virtually every verse in the Bible can be interpreted, explained, twisted, or contorted to fit a peculiar theological belief.
I don’t think Chris read any of my autobiographical material. Had he done so, he would have learned that my views of salvation and works evolved over the twenty-five years I was in the ministry. I was a Christian throughout, but I had various beliefs about salvation and the part good works played in the lives of believers. I can defend every position from the Bible. That’s why the Bible is such a wonderful book. You can easily make it say anything, and regardless of your beliefs, someone, somewhere is going to shout AMEN PREACHER! Keep preaching the Word!
The Bible talks against self righteousness – thinking that you’re a good person because you’ve done some good things. Your good works don’t cross out your evil – you don’t get to murder people because you’ve made charitable donations and fed homeless people.
Well, I am an atheist, so I don’t care what the Bible is for or against. Generally, I think humans are good people. I reject the Christian concept of “sin,” a tool used to cause fear and guilt so “sinners” will seek out a remedy for their “sin” through the church. Sin is the problem, salvation through Jesus is the solution, preachers say. I reject this construct out of hand.
Humans do good and bad things. As an atheist and a humanist, my goal is to be a good person: to love and help my wife, children, grandchildren, friends, neighbors, and fellow humans. Do I fail? Sure. I can be self-centered, self-indulgent, and self-righteous. When I recognize that I have failed, I try to make things right and, if possible, make restitution.
As far as I know, I have never knowingly (on purpose) been “evil.” I can look at my past life as an Evangelical pastor and conclude that some of my beliefs were evil, that they caused material harm to my family and the people I pastored. My only defense is that I did so ignorantly, that I was a product of tribal influences and indoctrination. I have spent the past fifteen years trying to atone for my ignorance. While it would be easy for me to say: Bruce, give yourself a break, you didn’t know any better, I think it is important for me to give an honest accounting of my life — past and present. My counselor told me today that I have great self-awareness, sometimes to a fault. My counselor before this one told me on several occasions, “Bruce, you are not as bad a person as you think you are.” I know he is right, but I look at what I preached and how I treated others, all in the name of God and according to the teachings of the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. I see myself as a victim and victimizer.
Salvation by grace, through faith, takes away our need to work for salvation – as if there’s a minimum number of good things you have to do to get to heaven, or as if you have a balance sheet that needs to be in the positive at the point of death.
Again, I could easily use the Bible to refute everything Chris says. For example, Matthew 25 clearly teaches that entrance into the eternal Kingdom of God is conditioned on good works. James makes the same claim when he says that faith without works is dead, and John says that anyone who sins is of the Devil, implying that good works are essential to salvation. In fact, I argue that without good works no one is saved; that the Mennonites and the Amish are likely closer to what the Bible teaches about salvation and good works.
I agree with Chris that the Evangelical notion of decisional regeneration — that of agreeing to a set of theological propositions and praying a one-off prayer makes one a Christian — is ludicrous and contrary to the picture of Jesus and his teachings and the early church found in the Bible.
From my perspective, all that matters is how we live, how we treat others. The goal should be well-being and reducing/eliminating harm (not only for humans, but other animals, and our planet).
“Is it any wonder so many Evangelicals are downright discouraged and depressed? Being told over and over that one is a worthless piece of shit and that one’s life is n-o-t-h-i-n-g without Jesus is sure to ruin any thoughts of self-esteem. Pastors frequently remind congregants that the Bible commands them to deny self, to take up their crosses and follow Jesus.”
Sounds like you went to a terrible church, and that the pastors were shitty people who wanted a passive flock to rule over. God loves you and gives you peace.
Romans 14 (KJV) 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, so I was the “shitty” pastor, pastoring terrible churches. 🙂 Theological beliefs have consequences. What does the Bible say about humans? Is there anything in the Bible that remotely promotes self-worth? Of course not. The Bible says we are vile, evil sinners, haters of God. Salvation doesn’t turn us into good people. We have no righteousness of our own. We are righteous only because and through the person and work of Jesus. The Bible says we can’t do anything without Jesus, even breathe or move. So, according to the Bible, none of us are good people, even after we are saved.
Discouragement and depression are common among Christians. For all their talk about God loving them and God giving them peace (after all, the Holy Spirit), Christians have the same struggles as the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. The bottom line is this: Christians are human, no different from anyone else.
Don’t throw away God because the “Christian” religion is awful. You can have a personal relationship with God by His Word. I don’t go to church, and I don’t like “Christianity” – but Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
Chris wants to claim the Christian moniker, but doesn’t go to church and doesn’t like “Christianity” — meaning Christian belief systems other than his. Christianity and the Bible are inseparably linked. The church gave us the Bible. I can’t envision someone being a Christian in a meaningful sense without the church. The Bible says that Christians should not forsake assembling together. It is through the church that believers have community and instruction in the teachings of the Bible. I was fond of saying as a pastor, “there are no lone rangers in the Bible.” Christians are meant to congregate together (and, as an atheist, I miss the sense of community I had as a believer).
That said, I understand Chris’s frustration with Christianity at large. Many of the readers of this blog, myself included, were what I call disaffected Christians. Our paths away from Christianity began when we looked at the church (collectively) and said to ourselves that there’s something wrong here. For me, my journey didn’t end there. The reason that I am an atheist today is that I came to the conclusion that the central claims of Christianity are not true. If I were to blame someone or something for my deconversion, it wouldn’t be the church. All told, I was a happy pastor who pastored wonderful people. Polly and I had a good life in the ministry. The blame, then, rests solely on the Bible and the claims Christians make from its words. Why am I an atheist? The Bible. And my secret desire to live a debauched, licentious life. 🙂 Bring on the whores, booze, and coke. Praise Satan! 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I received an email from an Evangelical man who said that Lucifer and I have a lot in common. Of course, I have a leg up on Lucifer. Unlike the Devil, I actually exist. And that is why frustrated, angry, outraged Evangelicals continue to send me email.
This email writer, who goes by the name Duane, came to this site as a result of a Yahoo search that led him to the post Holy Spirit Tells Jeremiah Johnson That Donald Trump is the Trumpet of God. He also read Why I Hate Jesus. All told, Duane spent less than ten minutes reading my writing. I am always amazed at how quickly the Holy Spirit leads Evangelicals to pass judgment on my past and present life.
What follows is the text of Duane’s email. No commentary from me is needed. 🙂
Man you have a really big problem. You talk about Jesus as if he let you down. Only you can reconcile with Jesus, in your time before he calls you to the throne of his judgement seat. This is promised to you and everyone who has walked this earth.
You seem to forget one thing. The Paraclete is the only friend you have. The third part of the trinity of God. Oh of coarse you do have a choice to go with the other guy. You know, the guy in the Bible who was God’s favorite creation. The highest Angel that God created in the very beginning of the story.
Yes the story that you seem to mock in your philosophy and writings that I have briefly read. That’s right, the other guy, who wanted to be God. Lucifer, not too different than your self who is self proclaimed and looking to lead people down the wrong path, with the lies of the world.
You do have a destiny that is promised to you and everyone who lives and breathes the same air, that God breathed into Adam. Yes you too are not getting off this planet alive. And then you will meet the face of Jesus, who was and is and is to come. I know this all sounds familiar to you yet some where along the way you lost yourself and all that God has promised you.
I love you and pray for you and all your family. I love you and God loves and Jesus loves you. You know how I know this. Because His tomb is empty! Amen and Amen
Sincerely, Duane **********
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I shared with readers an email discussion I had with Larry Beer, an Evangelical Christian. Based on Larry’s search history, it is likely he is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB).
Today, I received two more emails from Larry .
First Email
You can tell me to fuckoff or any word you chose, but I am still here in the presence of the God you believe does not exist and I love you as he loves all of us even though we do not believe it exists.
Love mean nothing when hate rules the mind and the heart you have found from others then you give back what they gave to you that you think is your love to expose hate?
You have the same unloving feelings of the Evangelists in your mind that you blame God changed them into yet you say God does not exist.
I am here any time you want to talk about why you do not like me even though I like you as my friend every minute of the day or night.
Second Email
Okay Bruce your totally right, there is no God or Satan to blame for our own desires and choices.
You gave the worldwide invitation on your own site; yes people gave you undeniable hate.
I do not see what you’re complaining about when you give back what you receive even to those who do not believe as you do you by you doing the same things you judge other for doing!
Yes you can tell me to fuckoff and ignore me that your own freewill choice, not mine;
When I was in a complete nervous breakdown and told I would end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life guess what Bruce all that was healed by the same God you chosen to refuse to believe.
I know God is my judge for I know him by his love he gives to me and I tell you that is yours as well, what you do with that truth is your own freewill choice.
I will be here any time you can think Larry does love you because there is a God or why would I take the time to even go on your site.
No commentary from me. Larry’s words speak for themselves. He’s starting to sound like a stalker, someone who has a perverse understanding of “love” and “friendship.”
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, an Evangelical man named Tom Howard sent me the following email:
FAKE, fake, fake, faker. 25 yrs a fake. How many people did you fake out over those years? Imagine living as long as you have and concluding life as a fake so called atheistic demoncrat. Satan has faked you out and you haven’t a clue. The gall of you calling yourself an atheist yet fully espousing the Christian world view of morality, family, marriage, lawful living, what a faker! Your poor wife and kids must really hold you in high esteem, so just find a juniper tree and self abort and confirm your fake beliefs. This is all in the spirit of 1Tim5:20
1 Timothy 5:20 says
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
“Good” Christians always find a Bible verse to justify their hate.
If Heaven is where the Tom Howards of the world will be, please book me a suite in Hell.
What is it about Evangelical Christianity that turns some believers into vile, hateful people?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I answer every email I receive, even those from Evangelicals. Some days, as you shall see in a moment, I wonder why I bother. What follows is the email interaction I had with Larry, an Evangelical Christian from Canada.
Enjoy! 🙂
Larry:
Hi Bruce,
Just as comment I feel your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.
I can only say whatever has influenced you was real to you and I am sorry the beginning of your life was not what you expected, but I hope what you have left will bring you some blessings of acceptance of others who do not believe as you do.
Sincerely; Larry, a person caring about others much as I care about myself.
Bruce:
Everyone, including nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelicals are free to say anything they want in one comment. If they show they can play well with others, they will be given an opportunity to comment again. So, I have no idea what you are complaining about.
What makes you think I don’t accept people who believe differently from me?
Larry:
I wasn’t complaining just don’t understand what you are complaining about?
You obviously don’t accept anyone who claims God just wondering who that hurts you or them?
I am open to any comment and I do not hate your for any thing.
Bruce:
Evangelicalism is inherently harmful. I have fleshed out the reasons for this claim numerous times over the years.
My blog affords me an opportunity to tell my story and critique Evangelicalism (and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement). My target audience is people who have doubts about Christianity or who have left Christianity.
You said “your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.” That simply is not true. Every reader gets at least one opportunity to comment — even Christian assholes. I answer every email I receive, and I receive lots of them, most of which are negative or hostile. Thus, I am at a loss to understand your complaint.
I have Christian friends. Tomorrow, I will have dinner with two Christian pastors. I have been doing so monthly for two years. I have Christian family members, including some of my children. So, your claim about not accepting Christians (or people from other faiths) is not true. That said, my blog belongs to me. I get to choose who I want to interact with. Since most Evangelicals are nasty, arrogant, and abusive towards me, I hope you will forgive me for not giving them the time of day (outside of exposing the bankruptcy of their “faith.”) As long as Evangelicals cause harm, I plan to speak out against their beliefs and practices. They have taken over the Republican Party, tried to overthrow the government on January 6, and are waging a jihad against LGBTQ people, women who need abortions, and people of color. These things matter, yes?
Larry:
Yes all people matter, even those who do not care about you or I.
We can all be assholes, that is just another name given as hate to those who disagree with others.
People are people not Gods. Anyone can claim that are do thing for God but God is real or he is not. If some thinks he does exist he won’t exist to them, so why blame anyone for their own unloving characters as if God caused it.
Is that what you want people to now, just asking?
Bruce:
Sorry, Larry, “asshole” is an objective term. We all can be assholes at times, but some people are assholes 24-7, as emails to me and comments on my site clearly show. This is not about disagreement, it’s about character. Try walking in my shoes: threats of judgment and hell, death threats, threatening to harm my wife or daughter with Down syndrome . . . every vile thing imaginable has been said to me by so-called followers of Jesus. So, spare me the false equivalence.
“God” turns some people in bad people. Again, all you have to do is read my blog to see the evidence for this claim. I don’t let these assholes hide in the shadows. I publicize their “works” for all to see.
I don’t understand your question.
Larry:
Thanks for the clarification.
Anyone can choose to believe there is a God or there is no God.
One thing for sure God guarantees if anyone earnestly seeks him, they will find him and know him.
Very simple, easy and it definitely can only be our own decision by our own minds and hearts not others.
Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. Anger is still anger but to refer them as being leader from God also attacks God.
God turns no one into anything or he would only be the devil.
God gave all of us a freewill choice in his image and we all choose to be what we are and how we treat others.
I am not asking a question I am replying to your invitation you give on your site and I have accepted you in love as I love myself.
I do not like being talked down to but I know God is real, not by others examples but as he said he is.
Your open so I came to let you know looking at others will never show the truth God there really is.
Your blessed with some much more than others in deeply sad fearful lives like wars and famines.
People who call other names, God will judge them not me.
You are not listening, you are “preaching.” I am an atheist, so any discussion about God/Satan is a waste of time. I simply don’t care.
You said, Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. I told you why they attack me, yet you ignore this and justify the atrocious behavior of your fellow Christians. Good job, Larry.
You wrongly think I am “open” to the bullshit you are peddling. I assure you, I am not.
We are done here.
Larry:
You have a site on worldwide internet, and you open to anyone as you have even said by your own choice, stop your site and all will be well.
Then go back and seek God and his love that will never condemn you, is that not worth seeking and knowing, my friend Bruce?
The others are in God’s hands also for he guarantees it.
Bruce:
Fuck off, Larry.
Thank you for not listening to one word I had to say.
You came to my site looking for info on Jack Hyles. You made no effort to read any of my autobiographical material. I assume, then, you had an agenda, not understanding and interaction.
Why would I go back and seek a mythical being, Larry? Do you realize how absurd you sound? Your religious babbling only works with people who believe. I don’t.
And you most certainly are not my friend.
Larry:
Thanks Bruce,
I read a lot and I love you as I love myself.
You believe or you would not be so angry.
Just another syrupy, passive-aggressive discussion with an Evangelical Christian only interested in preaching and evangelizing. What’s new, right?
Larry says he read a lot of my writing, but the server logs say he read one post about Jack Hyles before sending me an email. He may have read other posts, but I doubt it. Evangelicals lie about what they have read on this site all the time. Lots=two posts. Everything=five posts. If Larry extensively read my writing, his emails do not reflect it. Just once, I wish such people would read the posts on the WHY? page before emailing me or commenting. Instead, they practice Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Just remember, God said it, I didn’t. 🙂
I am sure some readers wonder why I bother answering emails and comments from the Larrys of the world. Doing so is largely a waste of time. Sometimes, however, I can reach someone, leading to them questioning their sincerely held beliefs. Any move away from Fundamentalism is a good one. Other times, these discussions provide fodder for this blog, shining a bright light on how Evangelical behave towards atheists, agnostics, and other believers. People such as John, James, Jim, David Tee, Lonnie, Larry, and a cast of thousands reveal the ugly, vicious underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. I have received enough of these emails and comments over the past fifteen years to conclude that these people are not just a few bad apples or crazy uncles. Like it or not, Evangelical beliefs and practices turn some Christians into hateful, meanspirited people; people who take pleasure in condemning people to Hell; people who revel in savagely attacking LGBTQ people; people who have no capacity to understand or accept people different from them.
That said, there are a handful of Evangelicals who regularly comment on this site. Some of them have been commenting for years. Scores of other Evangelicals faithfully read my writing. I am grateful for their love and support. If only most Evangelicals were like them, I suspect I would have a much better view of Evangelicalism. Not that I am going to return to the fold. That ship has sailed. For these Evangelicals, friendship in this life is enough for them. They are content to let God sort out things after death (as am I). Are they really Evangelicals? That’s for them to say. I generally accept how people self-identify. People have many and varied reasons for wearing the Evangelical moniker. Labels don’t matter much to me anyway, behavior does. I am always grateful for Evangelicals who put their humanity first.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
— Unknown
As an outspoken atheist and writer, I frequently come in contact with Evangelical Christians who think they have a duty to express their opinions about my past and present life and what awaits me after I die. Couched in Bible verses and regurgitated religious verbiage, their pronouncements are little more gnats flying around my head on a warm summer day. Irritating, to be sure, but nothing that can’t be dispatched with a quick swat of snark or reason. On days that I am in too much pain to snarkily respond, I allow Christian drones to aimlessly buzz around my head, knowing that if I ignore them, they will soon move on, or one of my regular readers will turn them into a splat. On rare occasions, I unsheathe my sword and spend time cutting to shreds Evangelical presuppositions, proof-texting, and sermonizing. What remain the same, regardless of the level of my response, are the repetitive arguments and statements used by Evangelicals to express their dislike/hatred of something I have written or said.
Come November, it will be fourteen years since I darkened the doors of a church; thirteen years since I wrote the infamous letter, Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners, and let everyone know that I no longer considered myself a Christian; thirteen years of being inundated with emails, blog comments, and social media comments from Evangelicals determined to show me the error of my ways. It’s been years now since a Christian has said something related to my deconversion or past life that I have not heard countless times before. After several thousand or more God wants me to tell you __________ emails and comments, I now just shake my head or laugh when I receive such things.
Occasionally, when I need a bit of humorous levity, I will respond, knowing that most Evangelicals interlocutors aren’t really interested in what I have to say. I have long since concluded that many zealots love to hear themselves talk. Such people aren’t really interested in my spiritual state as much as they are reinforcing their own beliefs. My story — fifty years in the Christian church, twenty-five years as a pastor, and now an atheist — is disconcerting and troubling for many people. If someone such as myself can fall away, then so can they. So, when reading my story, they attack me personally instead of wrestling with their own fears, doubts, and cognitive dissonance. This is why several former parishioners have told me that they can no longer talk to me. These people, who once called me pastor, preacher, and friend, find my current godless state so troubling that it causes them psychological pain. Instead of investigating their pain or examining their own beliefs, these former parishioners or friends choose to end our relationship (and I am fine with that).
Several years ago, a woman who was a teenager in one of the churches I pastored in the 1980s messaged me, thanking me for sending her a link to some old pictures I had posted a year ago on Facebook. (Her father is the focus of the post Dear Friend.) Evidently, my message ended up in her spam folder and she did not find it until this week. This woman, now in her forties, made no attempt to talk to me about family or any of the other commonalities we humans share. Instead, she said, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? Immediately, my mind went back to the days when this woman was a rebellious, haughty, mouthy teenager — a constant pain in her parents’ asses. I envisioned her with her head thrown back, curling her face into a snarl, saying, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? I did not respond to her, choosing not to waste time responding to someone who really isn’t interested in what I have to say. (Years later, we reconnected on Facebook.)
in 2015, my two (now one since one of them died of COVID-19 last year) remaining Christian friends ran into a man I have known since the early 1970s. (I believe he is ten or so years younger than I am. I was mainly friends with his oldest brother and parents.) After trading pleasantries with my friends, this man said, CAN YOU BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED TO BRUCE? I am sure he heard about my deconversion from his parents. After receiving news of me leaving Christianity, his mother had sent me a blistering letter that suggested in no uncertain terms that I was under the control of Satan. A year or so later, I received an apology from her (a rare occurrence). While she could not comprehend how I could ever walk/run away from Jesus, she did accept the fact that nothing she could say would likely change my mind. People who know me well know that I am a man of deep convictions and intellectual acumen. They also know that I am rarely swayed by circumstance or emotion. When confronted with the possibility that I could be wrong, I tend to study the heaven out of the issue. I want to KNOW, so blissful ignorance or “faithing it” is not an option for me.
Several years ago, my doctor told me that my heart is skipping every fourth beat and that I might have an “atrial whisper.” He ordered an EKG and told me to me wait as he consulted with a cardiologist. He smiled and asked me if I had something to read. I laughed, and pointed to my iPhone. Having been my doctor for twenty-five years, he knows that I tend to study the life out of things. By the time he had punched in the phone number of the cardiologist, I was on Web MD and Wikipedia looking up “atrial flutter” and other related heart/health issues. This illustrates perfectly how I tend to go after challenges to my beliefs or understanding. When I don’t “know” something, I make it my mission to increase my knowledge. Despite health problems that increasingly rob me of the physical and mental wherewithal to read, learn, and write, I am still driven to know more today than I did yesterday. This is why people who are close to me know that I rarely speak on a matter before knowing the facts. (I am not suggesting that I can’t be wrong or act irrationally. I can. Just ask Polly.) 🙂
An Evangelical woman (a friend of a friend) left the following Facebook comment for me:
I’m sorry that you have lost your contact with God. He’s still there, if you are interested. You may have stopped believing, but he hasn’t stopped existing or loving you. May God bless you. We have exchanged comments in the past and I don’t want to re-open that debate. This post just struck me as being very sad and empty, so I wanted to give a bit of encouragement. That’s all.
Here’s a woman who is incapable of understanding any other way of life or system of belief but her own. For her, Jesus is the be-all and the end-all, the reason for getting up in the morning. As she looks at my life through her rose-colored Bible glasses, all she sees is sadness and emptiness. She cannot comprehend a good life, an honorable life, a blessed life, and a life of meaning and purpose without knowing her peculiar version of Jesus as Lord and Savior. For her, my life does not compute. If she really cared about me as a person, she would trawl the depths of my story, and having done so she would then know that telling me, “I’m sorry that you have lost your contact with God. He’s still there, if you are interested. You may have stopped believing, but he hasn’t stopped existing or loving you,” will not elicit the desired response, and will likely be viewed by me as the words of yet another tone-deaf Christian.
Evangelicals need to understand that I am immune to their words. I have reached a point in my life where I rarely respond to their comments, sermons, or attacks. I prefer to spend my time writing and hanging out with Polly. If I sense a Christian sincerely wants to “know” then I will send them a few links to blog posts that I think will answer their questions. Sadly, few of these people bother to read the suggested posts. No need, right? They know what they know, even if what they know is dead wrong.
A better use of time for Evangelical zealots would be to seek out those who have no understanding of Evangelical belief and practice. Ignorance is the fertile ground of Christian Fundamentalism. Why tell someone the gospel twice before everyone has heard the gospel once, right? Well, I have heard it and preached it thousands of times, and when Christians continue to spew the same intellectually vacuous arguments and attempt to emotionally manipulate me, I don’t hear a word they are saying. Their lips are moving, but I ain’t listening.
I know that nothing I have written here will ward off garlic-immune Evangelicals who believe they have a God-given duty to put in a good word for Jesus. Until such people can dare to fathom the possibility of being wrong, there is nothing I can say or do that will change their minds. Only unrequited doubt will put them on the path to intellectual freedom. As long as their minds are shackled to God, Jesus, and the Bible they will continue to view me as an enemy that must be vanquished. Little do they know that they are tilting at windmills.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an unhappy reader:
I (mostly) love your posts – the ones that focuses on general relevant matters/issues and not on yourself. As I receive the emails, please do not search in your blog logs…
Since I found your blog I was very impressed and even subscribed. I even engaged before which you entertained up to a point. But something has been bothering me and I could just not put my finger on it.
So I have to now say this even if it is simply to make me feel better – and no, it is not the ‘bitter’ ‘thing’. Although you lost your faith and changed your believe system, you have NOT lost two of the very ingrained characteristics of evangelical pastors/preachers: You still ‘know it all’/’have all the answers’ and is still very much judgemental, e.g. judging people on their language use. Maybe that is why evangelicals still like to engage with you, they can relate, as they see that you are actually one of them – at least in behavior/reaction!
And no, I am not an evangelical.
I replied:
Sigh.
Sorry, I checked the logs.
First, If you have been reading my writing for a while, then you know “I don’t know it all.” Not even close. Your baseless assertion is simply wrong. As far as being an expert on the IFB church movement or Evangelicalism in general, what do you want me to say? I am, in fact, an expert on these things. That’s why reporters contact me for background information and why I regularly do on-the-record interviews. I’m sure you know stuff too, right? I make no apology for what I know and who I am.
Second, we all make judgments. ALL OF US, as you did with this email; with your judgments about my character.
Third, I am not aware of me judging anyone for their language.
Fourth, if you don’t like me as a person, by all means, stop reading my writing. I wouldn’t want to offend your sensitivities further. Would you like me to unsubscribe you from receiving the emails?
Anything else?
The emailer responded:
It must have been in the middle of the night there in your part of the globe when you responded, so you do not sleep? And you were quite fast/swift at that to. Also, I do note that you responded in person, not via your PA. Thank you for confirming my observations. I did not judge, I observed. R.E. language comment, see (okay, so I suppose it is about ‘dogma language’) Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Geri Ungurean Calls for the Arrest and Execution of Dr. Tony Fauci
I am sure you know it all about the IFB church and so on. Be that as it may, my life was quite good before I even knew of some body called the IFB church or of Bruce Gerencser, and will be quite good post that. I just hoped that I could learn something from that church (even if from their bad example) and from you, but I prefer to learn from humble people. By the way, I stumbled across your blog when I researched some church in Auckland New Zealand, their teachings etc. and saw that you were approached to comment on that. So I am well aware of your credentials. I unsubscribed myself, don’t worry.
P.S. Don’t know why I still responded – suppose just to make myself feel better – selfish person that I am.
Based on the server logs, this person has been reading my writing since 2020. He (or she) clicked on the Contact link numerous times over the past two years before finally following through with an email.
I found this person’s emails to be quite puzzling. My writing style has been pretty much the same for years. If someone doesn’t like reading my personal, first-person posts, why bother to read my writing? This blog is primarily about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. Even when I write about issues, I tend to use lots of personal stories and analogies. This has always been the case. That said, I don’t care why people read. I just find it puzzling that this person waited two years before emailing me to tell me what he “really” thinks.
Now to the substance of his emails.
First, I am a late-nighter. Regular readers know this. I typically do my writing between the hours of 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm. My wife, Polly, works second shift as a manager at a large manufacturing concern in Archbold, Ohio, from 6:00 pm to 2:00 am. Typically, we go to bed around 4:00 am. (We’ve been a late-night family most of forty-three years of marriage.) Once I am in bed, it takes me two to four hours to get to sleep. Bedtime is the worst time for me, pain-wise. I fall asleep when drugs finally overwhelm the pain and I fall asleep in exhaustion. Typically, I sleep in two to three hour blocks. Bowel and bladder problems routinely interrupt my sleep. Thus you are likely to get an email or text from me when most people are fast asleep.
This person emailed me at 2:01 am. I responded at 2:49 pm. As far as being swift or fast with my response, is there an appropriate amount of time I am supposed to wait before responding? One of the reasons I promptly responded is that I wanted to respond instead of Carolyn. Trust me, if she had responded, I doubt the emailer would have been pleased with its tone. 🙂 She doesn’t suffer fools either. 🙂
Second, this person calling his email an “observation” is a distinction without a difference. We all make judgments. When I received his email, I made a judgment about him. He’s done the same with me. This man has determined I am a know-it-all, judgmental person, lacking humility. While I think his judgment is without merit, what could I possibly say to change his mind? That’s why I suggested he stop reading my writing. If his sensitivities are so easily offended by my words, it is best for him to avoid this blog.
Third, his claim that judge people for language use has no merit. Commenters are free to say whatever they want, even Evangelicals. EVERY, and I mean EVERY, Evangelical commenter is given one opportunity to say whatever he or she wants.
The email used a link to a quote by Geri Ungurean as evidence of me judging people for language. Huh? I made no commentary either in the post or in the comment section about Ungurean’s quote.
Fourth, I suspect the real issue here is that I speak authoritatively on the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement and Evangelicalism in general. I spent the first fifty years of my life in Evangelicalism, as a member, college student, and pastor. I have been writing about and critiquing Evangelicalism and the IFB church movement for two decades. I continue to follow these things closely, reading blogs, checking out websites, listening to podcasts, and watching YouTube videos. I do these things because it is my job. Does anyone think I would be wading in this cesspool if it wasn’t for this blog? Of course not. I have a job to do, and as long as I am physically able to do so, I plan to keep putting on my hip waders and wading into the Evangelical toilet. If this makes me a know-it-all or judgmental, so be it.
As far as humility is concerned, the emailer confuses my pointed, direct approach with arrogance. Not much I can do about this. Either you like my writing style, or you don’t. I have quit following a number of people over the years. Not one time did I ever think to send them an email telling them what I don’t like about them. Different strokes, for different folks, right? This doesn’t mean I don’t make mistakes or that I can’t do better. I try every day to be a better person and writer than I was the day before. It saddens me that the emailer was disappointed in me, but I have learned that I can’t be all things to all men. I am an old man, a cranky curmudgeon (please see I Make No Apologies for Being a Curmudgeon). I have a lot of “stuff” on my plate financially and health-wise, so I really don’t have much time to invest in changing the minds of people who don’t “like” me. I will listen and respond, but expecting me to be anyone other than who I am? It ain’t gonna to happen.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In recent years, I have done a number of newspaper, video, and YouTube interviews. Doing so exposes me to the wrath and hatred of Evangelical zealots, especially of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) variety. To be fair, I also receive a number of positive comments, especially about my beard and sexiness. 🙂 Evangelical zealots typically attack my motives and character, often calling me names. Such people are fond of saying I am a liar; that they know me personally and know that my story is not true. Of course, these people never — I MEAN NEVER — come out of the shadows so I can confront my accusers. Instead, they hide in their parent’s basement, hurling invectives my way from their IBM 286 computer with a dial-up modem.
Over the coming months, I have two interviews on the calendar — Loki-willing. Like it or not, I am considered an expert on the IFB church movement. I’ll have reporters call me asking for background on the movement. One reporter emailed me for weeks, asking me to define IFB specific words he was unfamiliar with. I gladly obliged him.
Two months ago, McKinnon Mitchell interviewed me for his documentary on young-earth creationist, convicted felon, and wife-beater Kent Hovind. Hovind and I both went to Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan in the 1970s. Midwestern is an IFB institution. I was able to provide McKinnon background information on the people, beliefs, and churches that influenced Hovind. I thought our interview went well. McKinnon is a delightful man. I wished he lived near me. I would love to take him out for dinner and shoot the breeze.
If you haven’t seen my interview, you can view it on YouTube.
I want to focus on comments by someone named Rod Almond found on McKinnon’s first video:
Rod Almond, of course, is a fake name, possibly a reference to the “almond rod” found in the Bible. I have no idea who he is. Almond states:
He personally knows me
I am not to be trusted
I am full of bullshit
My goals (on this blog) are self-serving
I have no desire to help people
I am a liar
I am self-serving
He knows people I have personally lied to
He knows people I have trashed and used for selfish purposes
I am a sensationalist
and . . .
Damn, what comes after the “and”? 🙂
Over the past fifteen years, I have had a few Rod Almonds hurl accusations at me, always using fake names to attack my character and spread lies about me. One person said they were a former parishioner, another said they attended church with me at the Newark Baptist Temple in the early 1980s. Not one of these Rod Almonds will put their real name to their accusations. Why is that? If I have hurt someone, I genuinely want to know so I can make things right. I want to make sure that any misunderstandings are corrected. Despite offering them an opportunity to engage me on my alleged offenses, not one of them has been willing to do so. Instead, they lurk in the shadows, hurling rocks at me, along with my wife, children, and the readers of this blog.
Long-time readers of this blog know that I am an open, honest man. I’ve made mistakes — lots of them — in my life. I have gone out of my way to atone for my “sins.” In fact, this blog can be viewed as a fifteen-year act of penance. I write under my own name. I don’t hide from my past or present life. Anyone can contact me via the CONTACT page. I am literally a click or two away. Thus, I can’t help but conclude that the Rod Almonds of the world are not honest interlocutors; their objective is to cause harm or hurt. To such people I say, fuck off. 🙂
If you are someone who wants me to atone for some perceived “sin,” please contact me so we can talk. If not, I will assume you are a dishonest person who just wants to bitch, moan, and complain; a person whose only objective is to cause harm.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I found two discussions about me on Baptist Board from 2014 and 2016, respectively, while doing an Internet search on my name. What follows are excerpts from these discussions. Many of the men discussing me are Baptist pastors. Lies, distortions, attacks on my character, with a few thoughtful comments sprinkled in. Granted, these discussions are eight and six years old, so the commenters did not have the breadth of autobiographical material that is available today. Would their opinions about me have changed if they had more in-depth posts about my story to read? Maybe, but I doubt it.
Give their comments a read and let me know what you think. All spelling and grammar in the original.
Enjoy. 🙂 And for the record, Earth, Wind, and Fire is a fucking prick. 🙂
2014 — Pastor Turned Atheist
Earth Wind and Fire:
Interesting read…this guy was a Baptist pastor….so what are your thoughts?:
Ooooh, another let’s-indict-believers-and-elevate-the-vomitus-of-the-apostate thread.
We are not commanded to live for unbelievers. We are commanded to live for the believer, specifically, the one who is weak in the faith. Willing to forgo your beer for his sake?
Revmitchell:
That is baloney. Based on what I have seen so far there is no real complaint to be made. Just someone wanting to tear down Christians and the church. Otherwise specifics could be given.
Winman:
Ok, you will hate me of course, but this guy was a Calvinist, so that might have made a difference.
So, this guy not only converted over to Calvinism, but it also seem he converted to Lordship Salvation with it’s extreme stress on performance. This may have had a lot to do with this fellow falling away from Christianity.
He does indicate in this particular article that he and his wife having many children, believing this was obeying the Lord might have been the first crack in his faith.
Again, get mad if you want, but there is a big difference between being a Calvinist, and a non-Calvinist. If I had first heard Calvinism preached, I do not believe I would have ever become a Christian.
That said, and to be fair, this doctrine of having a “quiverfull” of children is not limited to Calvinistic Christians, and I ought to know. I have eight children myself. This seems to be what first started his discouragement with the faith.
But I could see an extreme stress on Lordship driving any person away.
I read all four articles of how he left the faith, plus several other articles. I believe he tells us what really caused his shift in beliefs, and that was reading many, many books outside the Bible.
Interesting articles, and I do respect this fellow for his honesty.
Van:
From professing Christian to professing Atheist is a good read.
First he was not taught that turning and trusting requires a full blown comment to Christ, as our only priority rather than one of our priorities. Easy Believism claimed another young victim.
Next, he went from the frying pan to the fire, switching to 5 point Calvinism. Which again demonstrates he relied on the writings and thoughts of others (Calvinist books) rather than learning how to critically read God’s inspired word which is trustworthy and reliable and authoritative for living our lives.
Aaron:
My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn’t he just say, I don’t believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you’re-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?
Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.
If Adam couldn’t point at Eve, much less can Bruce point at Christ’s Bride.
Earth Wind and Fire
Ahhhhh, didn’t you see the DONATIONS button on the right hand side of the blog?
Zaac:
I don’t understand the confusion. He was quite clear. The lives of many Christians look like the lives of the lost. What details are needed? Look at the person you think is a heathen and recognize that when the average lost person looks at the life of a person who says he is a follower of Christ, he doesn’t see anything different.
We excuse away our drinking. We excuse away our smoking. We excuse away what we watch. We excuse away what we listen to. We excuse away why we disrespect authority. We excuse away how we support a man who rejects Jesus while purporting to still want folks to come to Christ. We excuse away the way we dress. We excuse away our prejudices. We excuse away our lack of love. We excuse away our judging outside the church. We excuse away our gluttony…our gossipping…and our phonyness. We excuse away our desire to win an argument as defense of the faith. We excuse away our nastyness in how we respond to others. We excuse away the truth and ask for unneeded examples when we well know exactly what is being talked about.
Just to name a few.
He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.
Zaac:
Because that’s what he experienced. People expect to see something different when they go to the church. And lately all they are seeing is folks whose lives look no different than their own.
I mean personally I think some of you have got the nastiest dispositions I’ve ever seen and if I were questioning my faith and encountered a bunch of folks in church who act like some of you, i could understand someone leaving.
Earth Wind and Fire:
If what? Can you convince him better than the Holy Spirit can? See Aaron views him as a reprobate……do you know what that is? Here is where ones point of view as to understanding scripture comes into play…..and I find the whole thing fascinating!
And Go Further with this……look at his wife & her present position & prospective. Then note that they were both raised up in the Fundy church……could there have been any subtle indoctrination going on there? Again utterly fascinating….. From Fundy Baptist Pastor to avowed Atheist. Track the progression……its fun.
The reason this fellow became an atheist is because he lost faith that the Bible was inerrant, inspired word of God.
That is why I am a King James only, because I MUST believe that God’s perfect and preserved word is in the world today. If I believed it was not, I would throw my Bible in the trashcan and live any way I want.
Now, don’t turn this into a versions debate, I am just saying I can understand this fellow’s point of view. He allowed men to convince him the Bible is not really true, and that very moment his faith failed.
Inspector Javert:
1.) I’m not interested in the carping of Christ-haters. When I was younger, I used to take the accusation and verbal vomitus against Christ’s sheep seriously.
I have since learned that The servants of Satan are constantly searching for ways to excuse their sin and attack the body of Christ. I do not believe in their intellectual honesty, and I care nothing for what they have to say against Christ’s children.
2.) This is (like most accusations against the believers) simply a “but, but, but you people are hypocrites!!” complaint.
“Hypocrisy” is the only concern of those with no morals. It provides the godless with the chance to preen themselves over their goodness since all it takes to not be a “hypocrite” is to have no morality and no moral standards whatsoever.
Call him what you will……but Ted Bundy was no “hypocrite”. He was merely a rapist and murderer.
This man is pointing out the failure of Christians to be perfect as an excuse to live a life for himself and exalt himself against the knowlege of God. Men like this are a dime a dozen…and there are probably 1,000 blogs with men just like him:
Sacrificing their children to the fires of Molech while accusing God’s people of not being perfect.
I simply rejoice that he no longer poisons the pulpit in one of God’s Churches.
Inspector Javert:
The blogger probably doesn’t really have any, that’s why.
The blogger is falling back on a commonly used excuse that he has learned will soothe his conscience. (And he knows all too often that modern Christians will fall for it and laud him for trashing them and the God they serve). He probably has nothing but generalized accusations which cannot be verified or compared nor defended against.
For every imperfect carnal Christian he knows, he can probably point to just as many who live up-standing lives which honor Christ. He won’t want to dwell on specifics….he just wants to latch onto a convenient excuse.
Were he to break down the specifics….he probably knows MANY MANY truly Godly loving wonderful Christian people. I know I do….I see them in Churches everywhere I go.
Annsni:
I think there was an even stronger reason: He was trying to make God meet HIS terms.
JamesL:
I read the article, and it seems to me that the pastor-turned-agnostic/atheist was trying to reconcile tradition with scripture, and simply couldn’t.
He was bound in the shackles of confusion, unable to answer tough questions about evil and sin, supposed righteousness that still looks very evil, carnality in a supposedly righteous saint, worldliness in so many children of God.
I could once relate to his appetite for intellectualism, love of knowledge, his love for books and appreciation for scholarly authority. He wanted to have concrete answers for life’s tough questions, and thought that men could adequately provide them.
I’ve read Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels, with their heavy appeals to the Gnosticism and all their empty rhetoric, and numerous other “scholars” with their pompous claims of authority on spiritual matters.
I’ll admit that those “scholars” make some compelling arguments that appeal to intellectual pride, with the feeling that one has been enlightened above all others. But in the end, they are simply shipwrecked by empty philosophy and a prideful desire to define truth by what seems right in their own eyes
Who goes to a self professed agnostic for concrete answers? By his own admission, he has no concrete answers.
What I see in that agnostic is someone who was convinced of his Christian doctrine by men, and was not firmly grounded in truth by the Holy Spirit. Then when other men came along with seemingly better rationale, he fell headlong into the same ditch.
Van:
From Easy Believism to 5 Point Calvinist to Atheist:
1) Embrace another gospel, one that values dead faith.
2) Embrace the idea that nothing we do will change the outcome of our lives.
3) Therefore embrace atheism, since nothing we do will alter the outcome of our lives.
One, two, three – its as easy as taking broccoli from a baby.
Rightousdude2:
I can’t see any rational person, especially one who came to Jesus, become an atheist. When I look into the night sky, I know, that I KNOW, that there is a creator of that massive expanse. When I gaze into a mirror and see the wonders of the human body and the miraculous things that needed to happen in order for life to exist [just the mystery and chemistry of blood, blood gases, etc.] are a marvel that tells me there is more to this life than what we see, feel, touch and assume to know!
The personality and love of God are all around us, and once a person reckons with themselves that there is a creator, and that creator is Jehovah Jireh … to turn back to empty beliefs makes me wonder if the guy ever, EVER believed beyond simple book knowledge.
In my heart of hearts …. there may be fleeting wisps of doubt [where the devil will try to whisper in my ear, our you sure. Are you REALLY sure?], but when it comes down to atheism versus God and creation, there is no other choice or option, at least for me!
In fact, with age has come wisdom, and I think the devil has about given up on me; because he got tired of asking me if I was really sure? Because each time he asked, I came up with more reasons to believe. He saw that wasn’t working! That’s the neat thing about the devil, you and temptaton! The more he tempts us, the more confident we become in our faith … because temptations [at least for me] always takes me back to square one, and once I’m there [at square one], the decision to give that temptation a boot in its red hot rear, becomes just that much easier.
Maybe that’s why he only tempted Jesus three times. Once he heard the answers, he decided that it was a hopeless battle plan.
So, IMHO, I can’t see a true believer giving way to atheism!
evenifigoalone:
I can kinda see it happening, in a way. Just going by my own experiences in the past with doubts, I mean. But in the end, God wouldn’t let me leave and I came out of those experiences more encouraged than ever before.
I tend to agree that a true believer will never be able to truly leave, but at the same time I can see how the arguments of atheism can seem very persuasive. IDK, I can see and kinda understand the thinking behind atheism, even though I’m quite sure it’s false. If I weren’t a believer and didn’t have a faith in God or experienced the things I have, I’d probably be an agnostic atheist.
Earth Wind and Fire:
Correct….he was always a reprobate but he has added whistle blowers to his resume….and now he takes donations! I find that hilarious….now he is a hypocrate with a tin cup.
jkdbuck76:
Sounds like he was not grounded and was double-minded. I’d sooner put a gun to head and pull the trigger than go to websites about debunking Christianity “for answers”. He did it to himself. If he truly is an atheist, then he was NEVER indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Bruce is gonna have to answer FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS on the dreaded Day of Judgment, and “gee, American Christians were too worldly” will not cut it. The goal is Christ, not our peers.
Here is the better thing: how many former atheists are now Christians and even pastors? Let’s focus on them. See what God has done in their lives.
Earth Wind and Fire:
The only thing he wants outa you is a donation
In 2016, is Bruce Gerencser saved?
jppt1974:
Praying for him to go back to Christ before he leaves this earth or Jesus comes back on the white colt! To get us all. Will leave it at that!
JonC:
While it is impossible for me to know, I suspect that Mr. Gerencser is a man who came to a particular realization prior to hearing those words “I never knew you.” The reason I say this is he presents himself as being indoctrinated rather than converted into the faith. I appreciate his honesty here because I believe it a legitimate issue in how we work with those “born into the church.”
As Christians we are, I believe, told to take the man at his words. We judge the fruit, not the heart, and are to treat him as if he is as lost as his profession indicates. We are fruit inspectors – not botanists.
JamesL:
This was posted here a year or so ago….by ? I don’t remember
Anywho…
I very much appreciate his distinction between theological fundamentalist and social Fundamentalist
he makes some unwarranted assumptions and runs with them, such as the notion that every Evangelical would agree with the idea that we are to obey everything contained in the Bible.
I know that is the right wing, fanatic, Fundamentalist, legalistic way. However, a true Evangelical who is sharing the good news of the Cross of Christ will recognize that we are not obligated to the Mosaic law.
But I appreciate the man’s candor. And I can sympathize with the fact that he was brainwashed by a fundamentalism which does not stand up to scripture
I think he was taught to have unrealistic expectations, and was not able to shake them. And that ultimately shook his faith
I think it would be very interesting to sit across the table from him, maybe a different doctrinal take would have yielded different fruit
Salty:
What is interesting is that over a period of a couple of years – he visted scores of churches – Bap, Protestants, Catholic, Mennonite – Methodist – you name it, he probably attended.
He did not find any that he felt comfortable in.
TCassidy:
agree, in this case, that we should take him at his word and treat him as an unbeliever. However, we must also remember that “by their fruits ye shall know them” in Matthew 7 is referring to false prophets. We can know false prophets by their false teaching. But it is a one way street. You cannot tell whether or not a person is saved by his fruit, or lack thereof.
TCassidy:
When a person can’t find any church he can agree with and feel comfortable in, we can rest assured the problem is not the churches, it is the person.
Tim71:
If this man is saved. Wouldn’t Hebrews chapter 12 vs 5 thru 11 apply? If you’re Gods child he going to take you to the wood shed and if you continue in disobedience he will call you home.
evangelist6589:
False convert who was a victim of the modern gospel message. Refer to Judas and a passage in the Synoptics of the many that will stand before him on the day of judgment.
This is all the more important why we must preach law to the proud and grace for the humble.
Bro James:
Ain’t no atheists in heaven–none headed there either.
Ecumenism is alive and growing on planet Earth.
The Lord knows them that are His, and they are sealed forever.
Now what? Pray for the lost and others deluded.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Earth Wind and Fire:
BINGO!!!!
You also notice that he is enormous! Out of that his health has been affected.
To quote my hero, Reggie Van Gleason……”Boy, are you fat!
BlueFalcon:
I prefer not to engage in the question whether he was ever really saved or not, whether he will still be in heaven or not. I have my own view, but those questions miss the point of his blog posts.
So-called deconversion is all the rage now. Several things seem to have led to Mr. Gerencser’s deconversion.
His parents’ divorce. He does not mention this as a cause or even talk about it in the linked posts. Still I would like to probe his mind to know if he thought at the time that one of his parents must have been not a true believer. Divorce is kind of like the unpardonable sin. One can do anything just about and still serve in the church unless one’s divorced.
His education at Midwestern Baptist College seems to have differed greatly from the real or critical scholars he read later, leading to disillusionment or the feeling that he was lied to or not told the truth about much of the Bible. In this sense it’s somewhat Ehrmanesqe, except that Ehrman came to his conclusion much earlier than Gerencser, probably much to Gerencser’s chagrin.
The Hyles scandal. He does not go into much detail, but reading in between the lines, if the best Christian man in the world is a damned narcissistic heretic liar, the whole thing is rigged and the fools are those who stay in the church to be preyed upon by these predators.
Many other scandals and in general the hatefulness of so-called Christians and many other adjectives to describe almost every church (over 300 apparently) since he stopped pastoring.
Readers need to read his blog for themselves. It is an indictment from an atheist who once was on the inside. Ironically, the indictment (namely points 3 and 4 above) is not unlike Jesus’ own indictment against some of the best known and on-fire churches of the first century (Rev. chs. 2-3).
BlueFalcon:
After reading a couple dozen of Gerencser’s blog posts, one conclusion is certain: Christianity as he taught and practiced is totally bankrupt and always has been, evidenced by his own words and ultimate experience of deconversion. In one post he talks about being angry at another pastor for not just having a TV (Gerencser didn’t) but watching it Saturday night when he should have been praying and preparing his message. Can you say, pharisaical? Apparently in his Baptist circles at the time all the pastors lived in separate mobile homes within earshot of each other on church property.
Gerencser has a long post on why he hates Jesus, or at least the “Jesus” construct he was taught and spent most of his life “living” for. His version of Christianity and the many pastors he depicts within that circle are, when you read his posts, picture-perfect of the biblical Pharisees, those whitewashed sepulchers, judging others but who are guilty in thought or deed of the same things for which they judge others. And it is against these hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus reserved his highest calls of condemnation. The NT Pharisees hated Jesus, so why should modern day Pharisees hate him any less? These posts on why he hates Jesus, at least, give a good idea of his version of Christianity.
Gerencser uses profanity in most of the posts I read. As an outsider looking into this man’s somewhat vulnerable posts, I wonder when this started or if he’s always been a proficient cusser. On occasion Gerencser confesses his outbursts of anger and verbally abusive language. What Gerencser has not posted much of, at least not in what I’ve read so far, are any private character flaws (he doesn’t believe in sin anymore, by the way). So on the one hand, his posts seem pretty vulnerable, but on the other, after reading them one feels like he isn’t sharing the whole truth about his inner self (not that that’s wrong — it’s his own blog, after all — but the impression he gives is that he’s baring all, when the feeling I get after reading is that he’s hiding most of his real vulnerabilities).
His main reason for deconverting is clear from other posts. He no long believed that the Bible was inerrant or inspired, and further that the God presented in the Bible was evil and not worthy of belief. Theodicy is a major problem for Gerencser. On more than one occasion he says something to the effect that if God could help his own pain or suffering or for that matter that of millions of others, he has chosen not to. That makes sense to him now, since to him God doesn’t even exist.
It is also clear from Gerencser’s posts that he is really into himself, constantly checking how often links to his blog are clicked, by whom they are clicked, how many times each person has clicked a link, etc. He really likes to state how much he likes to read, how many books he has read, etc. etc. I have and have read three of the four books by Ehrman he recommends (I’m lacking How Jesus Became God) — all of which are beginner and popular level — and even some of his he didn’t, like his The NT: A Historical Intro and The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, which are more scholarly, especially the latter one, which is my favorite Ehrman book by far.
Gerencser seems insincere in that he says he doesn’t want to disturb anyone or keep anyone from turning from Christianity, but if the God of Christians is really as evil as he says, then Gerencser himself is pretty evil for not trying to keep every last person in the world from believing in this evil God construct that destroys the lives of anyone and everyone who may be deceived into believing in it.
Reading his blog makes me appreciate even more Francis Schaefer’s The Great Evangelical Disaster. How prescient that man was!
I may read more of his blog as I have time. He seems to think of himself as sincere. He says he deals even handedly with both atheists and Christians, but just reading the comments section one can see that the atheists are allowed to use invective cursing and all manner of ad hominem attacks against the Christians, but Christians are quickly blocked if they happen to post a Bible verse (a violation of one of his rules). So his sincerity is quite self-contrived. I will never post on his blog. I wonder though why anyone would. I take that back. I can see why atheists and former “Evangelicals” from the same swamp of damned pharisaism that he hails from, jump in for the proverbial high-fives. I’m sure these at least provide a good level of self-gratification for his efforts.
Finally, I actually approve of his blog and recommend it. It’s easy to read and actually quite helpful. It is hoped that his blog will keep as many people as possible from entering the kind of churches that he was a part of and that the numbers in those churches will continue to dwindle until they are no more. And may the true church of Jesus Christ last forever. Amen.
John of Japan:
So you are accepting the depiction of an atheist apostate of the pastors in his “circle” without hesitation?
I don’t run in that IFB circle per se, but my wife graduated from the same Bible college, and I know some of the men who graduated from there. In fact, I knew the founding pastor, and he was a greatly used man of God. My wife’s pastor was on the board of the school for years, and he is one of the most godly men I’ve ever known and a dear friend. He is now retired from the ministry, and it is always a joy to spend time with him and his extremely sweet wife.
Frankly, I think it’s pretty silly of you to accept the word of a bitter, atheist apostate about Baptist pastors; oh, yes, and also to recommend an atheist apostate’s blog.
annsni:
I wonder if sometimes God doesn’t use an unregenerate person for a time to bring His message to people – similar to Baalam’s donkey. I would say this man was never saved – the “epiphany” seems quite suspect, IMO.
Aaron:
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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