Yesterday, I shared with readers an email discussion I had with Larry Beer, an Evangelical Christian. Based on Larry’s search history, it is likely he is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB).
Today, I received two more emails from Larry .
First Email
You can tell me to fuckoff or any word you chose, but I am still here in the presence of the God you believe does not exist and I love you as he loves all of us even though we do not believe it exists.
Love mean nothing when hate rules the mind and the heart you have found from others then you give back what they gave to you that you think is your love to expose hate?
You have the same unloving feelings of the Evangelists in your mind that you blame God changed them into yet you say God does not exist.
I am here any time you want to talk about why you do not like me even though I like you as my friend every minute of the day or night.
Second Email
Okay Bruce your totally right, there is no God or Satan to blame for our own desires and choices.
You gave the worldwide invitation on your own site; yes people gave you undeniable hate.
I do not see what you’re complaining about when you give back what you receive even to those who do not believe as you do you by you doing the same things you judge other for doing!
Yes you can tell me to fuckoff and ignore me that your own freewill choice, not mine;
When I was in a complete nervous breakdown and told I would end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life guess what Bruce all that was healed by the same God you chosen to refuse to believe.
I know God is my judge for I know him by his love he gives to me and I tell you that is yours as well, what you do with that truth is your own freewill choice.
I will be here any time you can think Larry does love you because there is a God or why would I take the time to even go on your site.
No commentary from me. Larry’s words speak for themselves. He’s starting to sound like a stalker, someone who has a perverse understanding of “love” and “friendship.”
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, an Evangelical man named Tom Howard sent me the following email:
FAKE, fake, fake, faker. 25 yrs a fake. How many people did you fake out over those years? Imagine living as long as you have and concluding life as a fake so called atheistic demoncrat. Satan has faked you out and you haven’t a clue. The gall of you calling yourself an atheist yet fully espousing the Christian world view of morality, family, marriage, lawful living, what a faker! Your poor wife and kids must really hold you in high esteem, so just find a juniper tree and self abort and confirm your fake beliefs. This is all in the spirit of 1Tim5:20
1 Timothy 5:20 says
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
“Good” Christians always find a Bible verse to justify their hate.
If Heaven is where the Tom Howards of the world will be, please book me a suite in Hell.
What is it about Evangelical Christianity that turns some believers into vile, hateful people?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I answer every email I receive, even those from Evangelicals. Some days, as you shall see in a moment, I wonder why I bother. What follows is the email interaction I had with Larry, an Evangelical Christian from Canada.
Enjoy! 🙂
Larry:
Hi Bruce,
Just as comment I feel your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.
I can only say whatever has influenced you was real to you and I am sorry the beginning of your life was not what you expected, but I hope what you have left will bring you some blessings of acceptance of others who do not believe as you do.
Sincerely; Larry, a person caring about others much as I care about myself.
Bruce:
Everyone, including nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelicals are free to say anything they want in one comment. If they show they can play well with others, they will be given an opportunity to comment again. So, I have no idea what you are complaining about.
What makes you think I don’t accept people who believe differently from me?
Larry:
I wasn’t complaining just don’t understand what you are complaining about?
You obviously don’t accept anyone who claims God just wondering who that hurts you or them?
I am open to any comment and I do not hate your for any thing.
Bruce:
Evangelicalism is inherently harmful. I have fleshed out the reasons for this claim numerous times over the years.
My blog affords me an opportunity to tell my story and critique Evangelicalism (and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement). My target audience is people who have doubts about Christianity or who have left Christianity.
You said “your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.” That simply is not true. Every reader gets at least one opportunity to comment — even Christian assholes. I answer every email I receive, and I receive lots of them, most of which are negative or hostile. Thus, I am at a loss to understand your complaint.
I have Christian friends. Tomorrow, I will have dinner with two Christian pastors. I have been doing so monthly for two years. I have Christian family members, including some of my children. So, your claim about not accepting Christians (or people from other faiths) is not true. That said, my blog belongs to me. I get to choose who I want to interact with. Since most Evangelicals are nasty, arrogant, and abusive towards me, I hope you will forgive me for not giving them the time of day (outside of exposing the bankruptcy of their “faith.”) As long as Evangelicals cause harm, I plan to speak out against their beliefs and practices. They have taken over the Republican Party, tried to overthrow the government on January 6, and are waging a jihad against LGBTQ people, women who need abortions, and people of color. These things matter, yes?
Larry:
Yes all people matter, even those who do not care about you or I.
We can all be assholes, that is just another name given as hate to those who disagree with others.
People are people not Gods. Anyone can claim that are do thing for God but God is real or he is not. If some thinks he does exist he won’t exist to them, so why blame anyone for their own unloving characters as if God caused it.
Is that what you want people to now, just asking?
Bruce:
Sorry, Larry, “asshole” is an objective term. We all can be assholes at times, but some people are assholes 24-7, as emails to me and comments on my site clearly show. This is not about disagreement, it’s about character. Try walking in my shoes: threats of judgment and hell, death threats, threatening to harm my wife or daughter with Down syndrome . . . every vile thing imaginable has been said to me by so-called followers of Jesus. So, spare me the false equivalence.
“God” turns some people in bad people. Again, all you have to do is read my blog to see the evidence for this claim. I don’t let these assholes hide in the shadows. I publicize their “works” for all to see.
I don’t understand your question.
Larry:
Thanks for the clarification.
Anyone can choose to believe there is a God or there is no God.
One thing for sure God guarantees if anyone earnestly seeks him, they will find him and know him.
Very simple, easy and it definitely can only be our own decision by our own minds and hearts not others.
Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. Anger is still anger but to refer them as being leader from God also attacks God.
God turns no one into anything or he would only be the devil.
God gave all of us a freewill choice in his image and we all choose to be what we are and how we treat others.
I am not asking a question I am replying to your invitation you give on your site and I have accepted you in love as I love myself.
I do not like being talked down to but I know God is real, not by others examples but as he said he is.
Your open so I came to let you know looking at others will never show the truth God there really is.
Your blessed with some much more than others in deeply sad fearful lives like wars and famines.
People who call other names, God will judge them not me.
You are not listening, you are “preaching.” I am an atheist, so any discussion about God/Satan is a waste of time. I simply don’t care.
You said, Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. I told you why they attack me, yet you ignore this and justify the atrocious behavior of your fellow Christians. Good job, Larry.
You wrongly think I am “open” to the bullshit you are peddling. I assure you, I am not.
We are done here.
Larry:
You have a site on worldwide internet, and you open to anyone as you have even said by your own choice, stop your site and all will be well.
Then go back and seek God and his love that will never condemn you, is that not worth seeking and knowing, my friend Bruce?
The others are in God’s hands also for he guarantees it.
Bruce:
Fuck off, Larry.
Thank you for not listening to one word I had to say.
You came to my site looking for info on Jack Hyles. You made no effort to read any of my autobiographical material. I assume, then, you had an agenda, not understanding and interaction.
Why would I go back and seek a mythical being, Larry? Do you realize how absurd you sound? Your religious babbling only works with people who believe. I don’t.
And you most certainly are not my friend.
Larry:
Thanks Bruce,
I read a lot and I love you as I love myself.
You believe or you would not be so angry.
Just another syrupy, passive-aggressive discussion with an Evangelical Christian only interested in preaching and evangelizing. What’s new, right?
Larry says he read a lot of my writing, but the server logs say he read one post about Jack Hyles before sending me an email. He may have read other posts, but I doubt it. Evangelicals lie about what they have read on this site all the time. Lots=two posts. Everything=five posts. If Larry extensively read my writing, his emails do not reflect it. Just once, I wish such people would read the posts on the WHY? page before emailing me or commenting. Instead, they practice Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Just remember, God said it, I didn’t. 🙂
I am sure some readers wonder why I bother answering emails and comments from the Larrys of the world. Doing so is largely a waste of time. Sometimes, however, I can reach someone, leading to them questioning their sincerely held beliefs. Any move away from Fundamentalism is a good one. Other times, these discussions provide fodder for this blog, shining a bright light on how Evangelical behave towards atheists, agnostics, and other believers. People such as John, James, Jim, David Tee, Lonnie, Larry, and a cast of thousands reveal the ugly, vicious underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. I have received enough of these emails and comments over the past fifteen years to conclude that these people are not just a few bad apples or crazy uncles. Like it or not, Evangelical beliefs and practices turn some Christians into hateful, meanspirited people; people who take pleasure in condemning people to Hell; people who revel in savagely attacking LGBTQ people; people who have no capacity to understand or accept people different from them.
That said, there are a handful of Evangelicals who regularly comment on this site. Some of them have been commenting for years. Scores of other Evangelicals faithfully read my writing. I am grateful for their love and support. If only most Evangelicals were like them, I suspect I would have a much better view of Evangelicalism. Not that I am going to return to the fold. That ship has sailed. For these Evangelicals, friendship in this life is enough for them. They are content to let God sort out things after death (as am I). Are they really Evangelicals? That’s for them to say. I generally accept how people self-identify. People have many and varied reasons for wearing the Evangelical moniker. Labels don’t matter much to me anyway, behavior does. I am always grateful for Evangelicals who put their humanity first.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an unhappy reader:
I (mostly) love your posts – the ones that focuses on general relevant matters/issues and not on yourself. As I receive the emails, please do not search in your blog logs…
Since I found your blog I was very impressed and even subscribed. I even engaged before which you entertained up to a point. But something has been bothering me and I could just not put my finger on it.
So I have to now say this even if it is simply to make me feel better – and no, it is not the ‘bitter’ ‘thing’. Although you lost your faith and changed your believe system, you have NOT lost two of the very ingrained characteristics of evangelical pastors/preachers: You still ‘know it all’/’have all the answers’ and is still very much judgemental, e.g. judging people on their language use. Maybe that is why evangelicals still like to engage with you, they can relate, as they see that you are actually one of them – at least in behavior/reaction!
And no, I am not an evangelical.
I replied:
Sigh.
Sorry, I checked the logs.
First, If you have been reading my writing for a while, then you know “I don’t know it all.” Not even close. Your baseless assertion is simply wrong. As far as being an expert on the IFB church movement or Evangelicalism in general, what do you want me to say? I am, in fact, an expert on these things. That’s why reporters contact me for background information and why I regularly do on-the-record interviews. I’m sure you know stuff too, right? I make no apology for what I know and who I am.
Second, we all make judgments. ALL OF US, as you did with this email; with your judgments about my character.
Third, I am not aware of me judging anyone for their language.
Fourth, if you don’t like me as a person, by all means, stop reading my writing. I wouldn’t want to offend your sensitivities further. Would you like me to unsubscribe you from receiving the emails?
Anything else?
The emailer responded:
It must have been in the middle of the night there in your part of the globe when you responded, so you do not sleep? And you were quite fast/swift at that to. Also, I do note that you responded in person, not via your PA. Thank you for confirming my observations. I did not judge, I observed. R.E. language comment, see (okay, so I suppose it is about ‘dogma language’) Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Geri Ungurean Calls for the Arrest and Execution of Dr. Tony Fauci
I am sure you know it all about the IFB church and so on. Be that as it may, my life was quite good before I even knew of some body called the IFB church or of Bruce Gerencser, and will be quite good post that. I just hoped that I could learn something from that church (even if from their bad example) and from you, but I prefer to learn from humble people. By the way, I stumbled across your blog when I researched some church in Auckland New Zealand, their teachings etc. and saw that you were approached to comment on that. So I am well aware of your credentials. I unsubscribed myself, don’t worry.
P.S. Don’t know why I still responded – suppose just to make myself feel better – selfish person that I am.
Based on the server logs, this person has been reading my writing since 2020. He (or she) clicked on the Contact link numerous times over the past two years before finally following through with an email.
I found this person’s emails to be quite puzzling. My writing style has been pretty much the same for years. If someone doesn’t like reading my personal, first-person posts, why bother to read my writing? This blog is primarily about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. Even when I write about issues, I tend to use lots of personal stories and analogies. This has always been the case. That said, I don’t care why people read. I just find it puzzling that this person waited two years before emailing me to tell me what he “really” thinks.
Now to the substance of his emails.
First, I am a late-nighter. Regular readers know this. I typically do my writing between the hours of 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm. My wife, Polly, works second shift as a manager at a large manufacturing concern in Archbold, Ohio, from 6:00 pm to 2:00 am. Typically, we go to bed around 4:00 am. (We’ve been a late-night family most of forty-three years of marriage.) Once I am in bed, it takes me two to four hours to get to sleep. Bedtime is the worst time for me, pain-wise. I fall asleep when drugs finally overwhelm the pain and I fall asleep in exhaustion. Typically, I sleep in two to three hour blocks. Bowel and bladder problems routinely interrupt my sleep. Thus you are likely to get an email or text from me when most people are fast asleep.
This person emailed me at 2:01 am. I responded at 2:49 pm. As far as being swift or fast with my response, is there an appropriate amount of time I am supposed to wait before responding? One of the reasons I promptly responded is that I wanted to respond instead of Carolyn. Trust me, if she had responded, I doubt the emailer would have been pleased with its tone. 🙂 She doesn’t suffer fools either. 🙂
Second, this person calling his email an “observation” is a distinction without a difference. We all make judgments. When I received his email, I made a judgment about him. He’s done the same with me. This man has determined I am a know-it-all, judgmental person, lacking humility. While I think his judgment is without merit, what could I possibly say to change his mind? That’s why I suggested he stop reading my writing. If his sensitivities are so easily offended by my words, it is best for him to avoid this blog.
Third, his claim that judge people for language use has no merit. Commenters are free to say whatever they want, even Evangelicals. EVERY, and I mean EVERY, Evangelical commenter is given one opportunity to say whatever he or she wants.
The email used a link to a quote by Geri Ungurean as evidence of me judging people for language. Huh? I made no commentary either in the post or in the comment section about Ungurean’s quote.
Fourth, I suspect the real issue here is that I speak authoritatively on the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement and Evangelicalism in general. I spent the first fifty years of my life in Evangelicalism, as a member, college student, and pastor. I have been writing about and critiquing Evangelicalism and the IFB church movement for two decades. I continue to follow these things closely, reading blogs, checking out websites, listening to podcasts, and watching YouTube videos. I do these things because it is my job. Does anyone think I would be wading in this cesspool if it wasn’t for this blog? Of course not. I have a job to do, and as long as I am physically able to do so, I plan to keep putting on my hip waders and wading into the Evangelical toilet. If this makes me a know-it-all or judgmental, so be it.
As far as humility is concerned, the emailer confuses my pointed, direct approach with arrogance. Not much I can do about this. Either you like my writing style, or you don’t. I have quit following a number of people over the years. Not one time did I ever think to send them an email telling them what I don’t like about them. Different strokes, for different folks, right? This doesn’t mean I don’t make mistakes or that I can’t do better. I try every day to be a better person and writer than I was the day before. It saddens me that the emailer was disappointed in me, but I have learned that I can’t be all things to all men. I am an old man, a cranky curmudgeon (please see I Make No Apologies for Being a Curmudgeon). I have a lot of “stuff” on my plate financially and health-wise, so I really don’t have much time to invest in changing the minds of people who don’t “like” me. I will listen and respond, but expecting me to be anyone other than who I am? It ain’t gonna to happen.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Long-time readers of this blog know exactly what I mean when I use the word “sigh.” They know my lingo, my style. However, new readers/commenters/emailers might not understand me saying “sigh” to them, so I thought I would briefly explain my use of this word.
When I say “sigh” to you, what I really mean is this:
What, this lame argument again?
Really? I mean really?
New day, same old shit.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Is this the best you got?
Where or where have I heard this before?
I’m so tired of people not bothering to read my writing.
Lame.
Stupid.
Ignorant.
What a dumbass.
OMG! Does this person think I have never heard this before?
You must be related to Jim/John/James/Lonnie/David Tee.
You are an annoying asshole.
I’m too tired to care about what you think.
I know you won’t hear a word I have to say.
I am not interested in what you have to say.
As you can see, in the original language of the Bruce Gerencser Bible, “sigh” has many meanings. Sometimes, when used in response to a nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelical, “sigh” means all of the above. After fifteen years of blogging, and receiving thousands of comments, emails, and social media messages from Evangelicals, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB), conservative Catholics, and Fundamentalist atheists, I no longer am willing to invest time in giving thoughtful, detailed responses to people who don’t care one whit about what I have to say. Their comments and emails are not about them gaining understanding about my story or finding answers to questions. Instead, their goal is to attack, criticize, condemn, threaten, and harm. To such people, I say, “sigh.” Or fuck off. That works too. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, a man by the name of Todd W Frederick stopped by to comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus. Based on the server logs for this site, Frederick read two or three posts and the comment rules page. While it is possible he read other posts, I have my doubts Frederick showed any interest in finding out who and what I am. As you will see in a moment, Frederick has already passed judgment, saying that I am headed for an eternal ass-whooping in hell.
Frederick has two years of Bible training via correspondence from Victory Bible College (no active website) in Roan Mountain, Tennessee and Bethany Bible College in Dothan, Alabama. Neither institution is accredited. I can say of Bethany Bible College that their curriculum is Sunday School class level. Back in the 1980s, I thought about finishing my degree through Bethany. After receiving the first materials, I was appalled to find out how weak they were academically. There are numerous such institutions scattered around the United States, offering easy paths to undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. Some of these colleges are considered diploma mills.
Frederick and his wife Heather do what he calls “harp evangelism” through a ministry titled Upstate Celestial Strings. Frederick’s wife is an accomplished harp player:
Currently Heather and her husband, Todd W. Frederick, participate in ministry opportunities with their local Baptist Church in Greenville, SC. They also enjoy working together as a team doing harp evangelism meetings for local Bible believing churches. Todd preaches a message from the Bible and Heather plays her harp. At UPSTATE CELESTIAL STRINGS, we echo the prayer of Psalm 71:22 with King David who stated:
“I will praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.”
Frederick is unapologetically Christian; and not just any kind of Christian. He is a King James-only, Muslim-hating, pro-white (his business website says “call … to speak to a live “European-American” citizen), Donald Trump-supporting Fundamentalist Baptist. I encourage you to peruse the Whiter Than Snow Appliances website. Besides having an atrocious 1990s website design — as all of his websites do — Frederick makes it clear that he is a Fundamentalist Christian businessman interested in only doing business with Fundamentalist Christian South Carolinians. Are you gay? Don’t even think about shopping at Whiter Than Snow Appliances. The front page of its website says:
The Colours of the Rainbow do not truly represent Sodomites (aka-“gays” which actually means “merry” or “happy”). The sodomite terrorists hi-jacked the sign of the rainbow and claimed it as their symbol; yet, they do that which is why Jehovah-Elohim destroyed the “old world” – because of sins [II Peter 2:5 –KJV], sins that the queers celebrate! They hold to the lifestyle of Sodom! The queers have tried to pervert the rainbow which is actually a perfectly good Biblical Symbol of God’s Promise to never destroy the earth again by a world-wide flood because of wickedness; such as Homosexuality. It’s sad, but the homosexual crowd does not have a clue about happiness (joy in the Holy Ghost)… just look at their suicide rate! Even attacking each other in their perverted relationships. They’re a very sad, not gay, people group.]
I am sure local LGBTQ people flock to Frederick’s appliance business. Not only is Frederick anti-gay, he is also anti- any other religion except Evangelical Christianity, and anti- any other political persuasion except conservative Republicanism. It’s fortunate that Frederick’s business is located in Fundamentalist Baptist, Evangelical South Carolina. Almost eighty-percent of South Carolinians self-identify as Christian. Frederick’s business is located in the small town of Piedmont — the home of Piedmont Bible College (a Fundamentalist Baptist institution with 740 students) — so I suspect the percentage of Christians is even higher than in larger South Carolina. Such behaviors here in Northwest Ohio — an overwhelmingly Evangelical area — would likely result in business failure. Local Evangelicals might have similar beliefs to Frederick’s, but most of them, at least to your face, are polite. (See Local Response for some notable exceptions.)
As I read Frederick’s email to me, I was perplexed by one line: these unfortunate events were brought about by Shaitan of whom you are now obeying his humanistic teachings. I thought, at first, that Frederick had misspelled the word Satan. Nope. Frederick says, in a first for this site after 38,000 comments and thousands of emails, that I am following the humanistic teachings of Shaitan. According to Wikipedia Shaitan is:
Shayṭān is a malevolent creature in Islamic theology and mythology. They are usually assigned to the category of jinn (spiritual entities). Apart from its generic designation, used with the definite article Al-, Shaitan refers to the head of shayateen, known as Iblis.
….
The term Shaytan has the same origin as Hebrew שָׂטָן (Sātān), source of the English Satan. However Arabic etymology relates Shaytan to the root sh-t-n (distant or one who goes astray). As an adjective, it can apply to any other being. The term “Shaytan” referring to this specific creature, may either be translated as “demon” or as “devil”. In Pre Islamic Arabia this term was used to designate an evil jinni. With the emergence of Islam the meaning of ‘Shayatin’ moved closer to the Christian concept of demons.
Frederick and I, indeed, have one thing in common: both of us are following non-existent, mythical beings.
Now that you know a bit about Todd Frederick, I give you his email. I will leave it to readers to make their own judgments. I plan to un-ban Frederick so he can so respond to this post and any comments it might receive.
You reap what you sow here and in the hereafter. I was right, you are ‘Bruce Nobody’ because you are unwilling to pick fights with other cultural gods, e.g. Allah; you talk big: aren’t they imaginary, too? So just shut down your website for these whiners about baby Jesus until you and your “brainwashed” followers grow a spine and declare war on all of the followers of god(s) throughout the world, or let’s just say the gods that are worshiped in Ohio alone. Once you and your devotees to humanistic logic can offend and persuade all of those outside of your “little box” to realize they have been duped and you can “free” them, as you did for one of your female converts to atheism then you will be “Bruce Almighty.”
Furthermore, you call my comments for you to stand up against the Quran “nasty, abusive words” yet you’re permitting your fellow infidels to run rough shod over others coming to express his or her viewpoints. An example of this is from one of your devotees: “Bruce, how do you deal with assholes like this Charlie asswipe?” Yes, enjoy yourself while you can ‘Bruce Nobody’ even though you are in control now as to who you can delete or block when it comes to comments and IP addresses but the time will be soon when you’ll stand before this “imaginary god” only to find that you don’t have a delete button for the terror you’ll be facing. Mock, be cocky now and talk behind people’s back when they’re unable to defend themselves and you will be reaping this, too. Remember: Prov. 1 26 “I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; 27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:”
I know you don’t like it when the bible is used, except when it benefits your trite, empty arguments but how can ‘Bruce Nobody’ be so sure of what you’re espousing to even though all of the cultures of the world have some form of having a creation account, writings that depict the “gods were angered at the original parents…”, a universal flood and even the evidences of antediluvian artifacts found in archeological digs in the Middle East. So shameful that you’re destroying the possibilities that your grandchildren to be able to make a conscience choice to receive god and a home in heaven because you are so spiritually sick. Just be sick for yourself if this is what you are irresistibly drawn to but to take your family to the lake of fire with you is what’s really “nasty and abusive.”
Like it or not, the truth tells you these facts and I am now your enemy because I tell you the truth. God didn’t foreordain for you to “suffer more than Jesus did”; these unfortunate events were brought about by Shaitan of whom you are now obeying his humanistic teachings. Continue in his doctrines and you will truly understand what suffering will be but it doesn’t have to be this ending for you: Jesus suffered your sin penalty in hell, baring in his body the sins of the world; thus, making all who repent and believe on Christ to be made righteous.
God is the purest form of love: John 3:16 – KJV. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God…
Sure makes me want to return to Christianity and follow after Jesus, right? Fundamentalists such as Frederick are only interested in hearing themselves talk. Frederick doesn’t really care about my mythical soul. All he cares about is putting a word in for Jesus. Fuck the atheists, let them burn in hell, people such as Frederick think. All that matters to such people is the preaching of their peculiar version of the Christian gospel. Little do they know or care how much damage they are causing to the Christian cause. Keep preaching, Bro. Frederick. Such beliefs and practices are partly behind the overall decline of Evangelical Christianity. Frederick might “feel” good after telling the ex-Evangelical pastor Bruce Gerencser the “truth,” but his truth is poisoning a whole generation of potential Christians and church members. I don’t need to evangelize for atheism, the Fredericks of the world are doing all the soul-saving work for me. If you doubt this to be so, consider the following review left on the Whiter Than Snow Appliances Facebook page. The reviewer is a Mormon:
Todd Frederick, the owner, was professional and helpful with our new stove, I will give him that much. We need a new dryer and fridge as well and were convinced at first that we were doing business with him further until on his way out he asked what church we attended. He did not agree with the church that we are members of and proceeded to tell us why we were wrong. As if this wasn’t bad enough, he would not stop berating us about it. He was absolutely relentless with this ridiculousness. We asked him several times to leave because he had gone well past being rude to being totally disrespectful in our own home. He not only would not leave, he had the audacity to tell us that since we were renting it wasn’t even our home. I could not believe the gall of this man. My wife and I both had to walk to the other end of the house just to get away from this man hoping he would eventually leave. The most unprofessional experience I have ever encountered. The saddest part of all this is usually when something like this happens you can walk away from the individual, but how can you walk away when the offender is right in your own living room and won’t leave when asked…simply UNBELIEVABLE!
Danny Mortimer, the Mormon missionary, just didn’t like me having some knowledge about his cult. Therefore, he has stooped so low as to smear my business. Fact is, Joseph Smith’s translations from Egyptian ancient papyri is utter nonsense and simply UNBELIEVABLE!
Here’s the true account of what occurred during the dialogue that I had with Danny Mortimer and his wife. Since Danny believes he will one day be a god, he needs to stop lying about people with whom he disagrees with. Otherwise, he will be like his brother Satan, a.k.a. in Mormon doctrine: “a spirit son of God.”
….
I simply asked Danny if he had good church to go to; he said he’s a Mormon. I said ‘I was going to invite you to Forestville Baptist Church.’ He said he attended there when he was younger but converted to Mormonism later and became a Mormon missionary. [Danny’s religion is known for challenging people themselves.] I then asked the question ‘What made you change from being a Baptist to a Mormon?’ His ans: “I studied Mormon doctrine and logically it made sense to me.” He asked me if I knew anything about Mormonism; I said ‘Yes, I studied up on Mormonism to explain what’s wrong w/ Mormon doctrine to our divorced neighbor lady w/ 3 children who were visited continually by Mormon missionaries.’ Danny asked me if I’d read the book of Mormons, I said ‘No.’ He said “You can’t speak about Mormonism until you read the book of Mormons.”
I then brought up fallacies in the Mormon doctrines, such as: How Mormons believe: “As God was, so is man and as God is, so shall man be.” Thus, they teach you can become “Gods.” They also believe that God spawns/makes “spirit babies” that are sent down to earth to inhabit human physical babies born to Mormon couples. Also teaching: each Mormon married man (even to multiple wives) will have children, being recipients of “the spirit babies.” Then after he dies, will become a “God” over his own planet, inhabiting it w/ his children and his favorite wife (who he will call up from the dead). They’ll then repopulate their planet. Thus, they will repeat the cycle that the “God in heaven is now experiencing.”’ [These doctrines are all erroneous teachings] I then asked Danny ‘Do you believe that you’ll be a “God” someday?’ To this he said “I hope so.” Then he went on to say again that I still couldn’t speak about Mormonism until I read the book of Mormon. Danny expressed anger because of the truth I was exposing about his false-religion, saying “You’re talking ‘Calculus’ when you haven’t even studied Algebra.” (Meaning: I was revealing too much about his false teachings and he didn’t like it.)
Neither Danny, nor his wife, ever once asked me to leave; instead, he asked me what I knew about Mormonism and I answered him/them. Not only are Danny Mortimer and his wife in a false religion but he’s also spreading lies about our discussion. Before I left, I told them that I also have discussed doctrinal differences with an imam (an Islamic priest) for over 2 hours (at the mosque). [Actually, I had a friendlier dialogue w/ this Imam than I experienced from Danny who exhibited much anger (being under conviction by the Holy Ghost that he’s wrong.) [I spoke w/ Danny and his wife for only about 20 minutes, making me late to church.] I ended the discussion by telling Danny that hopefully I didn’t offend him and I enjoyed our dialogue. I shook his hand and left. I’m shocked that Danny would act so child-like by ignoring our 1st Amendment Right to freedom of speech then go on and attack my business. Even the Mormons take liberties to try and make converts by incorporating opportunities into their work-a-day meetings to speak one-on-one to people they come in contact with. [Just ask anyone who has gone job hunting in Utah or Idaho.]
Jesus Christ has given the Great Commission. As a Christian, I’m to reach the lost, giving them the only hope that can bring salvation to them. The biblical Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, is that hope: Jesus Christ lived a perfect life, was crucified for our sins and was resurrected from the dead; thus, he is able save all who call upon him. Believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and you, who are sorry for your sins and repent of them, will be given the Holy Ghost. He will guide you into all truth; empowering you to live out the will of God. [You won’t become a “God.” Lucifer tried that; see where that’s gotten him.]
….
Yowzer!
Todd W. Fredrick is one of those rare birds who behaves the same way in public as he does on the internet. I have concluded that Frederick does indeed have an advanced degree; a degree in passive-aggressive behavior toward people who don’t line up with his religious beliefs. I am not against Evangelicals attempting to engage me or the readers of this blog in thoughtful discussions about God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, human sexuality, abortion, atheism, agnosticism, and humanism. Over a million Evangelicals have stopped by this blog over the past decade. More than ninety-nine percent of them never leave a comment or send me an email. And those who do? Most of them are argumentative, arrogant, judgmental assholes. Rare is the Evangelical who acts like a decent human being. I long ago concluded that many Evangelicals believe that I am beyond the grace of God: that as one who does “despite unto the spirit of grace” and “trods under foot the son of God,” and “considers the blood of the covenant an unholy thing” (Hebrews 10:29), I have passed a point of no return. I am a reprobate (Romans 1,2) who has committed the unpardonable sin. And since there is no chance of my return, it is okay to treat me like shit on the bottom of one’s shoes.
After a decade of such abuse, there is zero chance that I would ever reconsider the claims of Christianity — especially Evangelical/Fundamentalist/Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Christianity. Perhaps historians or archeologists will find some sort of evidence that might cause me to reconsider Christianity. Even if this unlikely event occurred, I wouldn’t return to the Christian faith. Much like an abused spouse, I would be out of my mind to return to a religion that harbors violent pathological abusers. Well, what will you say on judgement day, Bruce, when Jesus casts your sorry ass into the Lake of Fire? I will say, Jesus, many of your followers were assholes who showed me no love, kindness, or compassion. Some of them threatened to murder me, and others threatened to harm my daughter with Down syndrome. Lord, who are these people of yours? I wouldn’t want to live next door to such people, and I sure don’t want to spend eternity with them in God’s Heavenly Trump Tower®. Please, Lord, send me to hell. Let me enjoy the eternal company of Christopher Hitchens, Gandhi, my atheist/liberal Christian friends, and billions of other “sinners” who just so happened to have the wrong beliefs. I don’t like warm weather, Lord, but I will endure it as long as I don’t have to go to heaven. Thank you.
Of course, there is no Heaven or Hell. All we have is the here-and-now. And as a man who lives very much in the present, I plan to do all I can to suffocate the life out of Evangelical Christianity, or at the very least banish it to the fringes of American society. I hope you will continue to help me in this important task. We ARE making progress, as surveys show. The number of atheists, agnostics, NONES, and those who are indifferent towards religion continues to increase. The NONES are the fasting growing religious demographic in America. We ARE winning the battle, all praise be to Shaitan and Loki.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A Fundamentalist Christian woman by the name of Lucinda Palestrant sent me the above email several years ago. Palestrant came to this site via a Google search for Darwin Fish. In 2015, I wrote a post about Fish titled, Darwin Fish, A True Prophet of God. I described Fish this way: Darwin Fish, the truest Christian on earth, a Fundamentalist on steroids. Evidently, Palestrant is also a member of that elite, super-sanctified, elect remnant of Christians who supposedly will someday be rewarded by Jesus for their mind-numbing. devotion to what they believe are the TRUE teachings of the Bible. Heaven awaits them, their reward for stoutly standing for true Christianity®, while the illimitable sea of humans, past, present, and future, will be cast into outer darkness, facing eternal torture and suffering because they were born in the wrong country, raised in the wrong home, or had the wrong beliefs. (See Why Most Americans are Christian.) And for people such as myself, those who have full knowledge of the truth, yet reject it and lead others astray? Hell, fueled by God’s hatred of sin, awaits.
Palestrant warns me: The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. (Psalm 94:11) Evidently, this verse is supposed to scare me. God knows what you are thinking, Bruce, Palestrant admonishes, thinking that I will quake in my Sketchers over the very thought of her God reading my mind. Here’s what Palestrant fails to understand: I think her God is a myth, no more able to read my mind than Leonard Nimoy — of Star Trek fame — is able to do a mind-meld and read my innermost thoughts.
As a writer, public figure, and a well-known atheist, I understand that my written and spoken words matter. Virtually every day that I am physically able, I send out my words to be read by thousands of people. For almost six years now, my editor, Carolyn, has edited my writing, helping me to hone my writing skills, saving me from countless careless, imprecise errors. My goal has always been the same: to passionately and effectively tell my story in such a way that it infuriates Fundamentalists, helps those who have been harmed by Fundamentalism, and provides a voice for those who have been psychologically savaged by Evangelical Christianity. (See Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists? )I consider it a great honor to have the Lucinda Palestrants of the world tell me that I am leading people to Hell. Since the Biblical Hell is about as real as Donald Trump’s Christianity, the only “hell” I am leading readers to is the one filled with reason and freedom. It is in this “hell” people find that they are free to follow the path of life wherever it leads. No longer shackled by Fundamentalist dogma, former Evangelicals are free to embrace the wild, wonderful (and dangerous) world on their own terms. I can only hope that Lucinda Palestrant will someday experience the wonders of a mind liberated from the bondage of the Christian Bible.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Last week, I finally figured out how to successfully block John/Tom/James/I Love Dick from accessing this site.
Unable to physically access this site, John continues to email me. This avenue of access will soon go away once I move to a new address. Months ago, I made the mistake of answering John with my public-facing email address. This was a mistake on my part. Lesson learned.
John sent me this email last week:
You can add this as a guest post or however.
In response to the God bless America signs.
We do not care what atheists think about them. And/or the ACLU (Anti-Christian lunacy union)
I’ve actually volunteered to put one up in every school and building that may be the very thing that the Holy Spirit uses to bring a lost student to Jesus Christ.
The demon baphomet cannot save anyone and the only reason those agag lost satanists put his ugly statue up was to mock Christ.
Allah also is a demonic idol and Muslims are not going to proudly display him in American government buildings.
Most Americans are considered infidels.
No Satan is on mission to keep Jesus Christ out of schools and government because he is the ONLY WAY anyone will ever be saved from sin and hell.
And yes they DO EXIST Bud.
I strong encourage all who are seeing this hopefully the demonic agent was restrained in getting the gospel on this site.
I encourage you to Admit your a sinner Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ suffered agony and died and rose again to save you from sin and hell.
Trust and receive him now.
Pray,“LORD JESUS I AM A SINNER AND I CANNOT SAVE MYSELF I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED AND ROSE AGAIN TO GIVE ME ETERNAL SALVATION AND FORGIVENESS OF SIN LORD JESUS I ACCEPT YOU NOW I TRUST IN YOU AND YOU ALONE THANK YOU FOR LOVING ME FORGIVING ME AND SAVING ME IN JESUS NAME AMEN”
God bless
Then John wrote to say:
I feel very sorry for you as you are one lost Agag sick philistine.
Pearls cast among swine. I’m done here. I encourage you and everyone else who is blinded by satanic vices of antithesitic atheism to stay alive as long as possible
Over the weekend, John said:
You should listen to her.
She [Lauren] speaks the truth.
Jesus Christ suffered agony and died and rose again to pay penalty for your sins and give you the gift of forgiveness and grace and eternal life.
The portrait of who chooses to pay for his own sin is as follows:
DEMON: GRARRRRRR! RARRRRRRR!!!!
ATHEISTIC MAN: AHHHHHHHH!!!! NOOOOOO!!! HELP ME!!!!! THAT THING IS GROTESQUE!!!!! AHHHHH!!!! I’M ON FIRE!!!!
Hope all who read will sincerely accept Jesus this time.
I decided to have some fun with John. I sent him a photo of a group of naked men, a passel of dicks. 🙂 I then emailed him, saying: Please stop sending me requests for sex you pervert.
The hook baited, John hysterically replied:
What in the World????
Where in my email is a a request for Sex??
I’m trying to get you genuinely saved!
I came across your blog and was heartbroken 💔😭
Is that why you quit the ministry because you turned faggot? Obviously to send a nasty pic like that. Faggotry and dikeism is nasty and demonic no matter what the devil led supreme USA court says!
Y’all supporting faggots and baby killers will lead to destruction! You fixing to find out God’s word is real and true!
John uses numerous Gmail addresses to contact me. He typically blocks me from responding to him. John is a vile, nasty, hateful man who says he is a Jesus-loving Evangelical Christian. I’m convinced that John is a deeply closeted gay Christian man with raging homosexual desires.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, Lauren, an Evangelical woman from New York, left the following comment on the post titled How Evangelicalism Attempts to Supplant Family Relationships. Lauren read all of two posts on this site, the aforementioned article and the Comment Policy. My response to Lauren’s comment is indented and italicized.
Well…I’d “comment” but you are CENSORING comments…because silence always looks like “agreement”.
Lauren goes right for the jugular, accusing me of censoring comments. Evidently, if I don’t let Evangelicals run willy-nilly over the comment section I am censoring them.
It’s evident, at least to me, that either Lauren didn’t read the Comment Policy or she lacks basic reading comprehension skills.
I do not censor first-time comments. The Comment Policy states:
Evangelical commenters will be given one opportunity to say whatever they want. One, not two, three, or ten. Just one. Quote the Bible. Preach the sermon God has laid upon your heart. Put in a good word for Jesus. You have one opportunity to impress readers with your John Holmes-like Bible prowess.
Lauren could have put a good word in for Jesus or tried to evangelize me, but she decided, instead, to whine and complain about “censorship.” She used her one opportunity to preach the Good News to complain about the Comment Policy and attack my character. Good job, Lauren. I am sure God is proud of you.
You are a liar.
This is quite a claim by Lauren. What in the post she commented on is a lie? She provides no evidence for her claim, just a bald assertion meant to cause harm. Sorry, Lauren, I have been dealing with Assholes for Jesus® for fifteen years. You are a rank amateur compared to some of your fellow Christians.
And like it or not, I won’t pray FOR you…but I will talk to God ABOUT you.
This is a distinction without a difference. Maybe Lauren will let me know what the Bible God says about me. Better yet, why doesn’t God directly talk to me? He knows where I live. He even has my email address and text number. Why work through frail, mistaken middlemen such as Lauren?
Funny that you NEED to censor Scripture or evangelical comments…it’s like you think they might have some sort of power to them or you’d not be bothered by them. You actually give them much more validation by censoring them than by just ignoring them.
Lauren could have quoted as many Bible verses as she wished, but chose not to. That’s on her.
The rest of the relevant Comment Policy states:
The following types of comments will not be approved:
Preachy/sermonizing comment
Extensive Bible verse quoting comment
Evangelizing comment
I am praying for you comment
You are going to Hell comment
You never were saved comment
You never were a Christian comment
Any comment that is a personal attack
Any comment that is not on point with what the post is about
Any comment that denigrates abuse victims
Any comment that attacks LGBTQ people
As you can see, quoting Bible verses in comments is not banned, as long as the quotations are focused and reasonable. What I don’t want is a bunch of proof-texting or sermonizing. Remember, Lauren could have quoted the entire book of John in her first comment, but she chose not to. That’s all on her.
I don’t anticipate this comment will remain on your page.
Why? I approved it, as I do all first-time comments. It sounds like Lauren has a martyrs complex. The Evil Atheist Bruce Gerencser is keeping her from saying whatever she wants. This, of course, is not true.
My heart is broken for your brokenness and the deception your uncensored comments will cause.
Brokenness? Really? I’m quite whole, thank you very much — outside of a few loose screws and broken body. Once free from the shackles of Evangelicalism, I found freedom and wholeness.
No first-time comments are ever censored. NEVER! That said, commenting on this site is a privilege. The Comment Policy states:
The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser is not a democracy where anyone has a right to say whatever they want. This is my personal blog and I reserve the right to approve or not approve any comment. When a comment or a commenter is abusive towards the community of people who read this blog, I reserve the right to ban the commenter.
If you can be respectful, decent, and thoughtful, your comment will always be approved. Unfortunately, there are many people — Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians in particular — who have a hard time playing well with others. They often use a passive-aggressive approach towards me and the non-Christian people who frequent this blog. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated and will result in a permanent ban.
This blog is also not a place for hardcore atheists to preach the gospel of atheism. While I am an atheist, many of the people who read this blog are not. Frank, honest, open, and passionate discussion about religion, Christianity, and Evangelicalism is encouraged and welcome. However, I do expect atheists not to attack, badger, or denigrate people who still believe in God. If you are respectful, decent, and thoughtful, you will be fine.
Lauren seems to think that I should allow people to say whatever they want in the comments. That’s not going to happen — ever. The privilege of commenting on this site (after a first comment) must be earned. Play by the rules, and you can comment at will. We have developed a wonderful community over the years. One reason for this is that I don’t let Evangelicals shit all over the place. This is a private blog, my blog, no different from my home or automobile. I choose who I do or don’t let into my home or drive my car. I suspect Lauren does the same.
Here’s what I will do, I will offer Lauren ONE opportunity to write a guest post. She is free to say whatever she wants. Show why I am a “liar,” Lauren. Reveal why I am such a “bad” man. Write about what your “friend” told you about Bruce Gerencser. Defend Christianity. Prove the existence of the Bible God. Defend the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. Better yet, share your testimony. Just remember, readers will respond to what you write, as will I.
I will offer Lauren another deal. I will grant her the privilege to comment whenever and however she wants IF she arranges for me to speak at her church on a Sunday morning on the subject “Why I Am an Atheist.” Let’s see if Lauren is a woman of conviction. Surely, I should have the right to say whatever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want, and stopping me from doing so is “censorship,” right? Right? 🙂
I suspect my church’s size is far bigger attendance-wise than the church Lauren attends, so this would be a fair swap of platforms. 🙂 I have made this offer numerous times over the years. Not one Evangelical has taken me up on it. I wonder why?
BTW…I am a member of “The Family of God” and found your page looking for a logo…thanks for helping me find you so I can talk to my Friend about you.
Please let me know what your “Friend,” Hey-Zeus, has to say. He’s dead, you know. It will be quite a feat for you to get a response from a 2,000-year-old corpse.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, a Fundamentalist Baptist man named Richard sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
Hello Bruce. You might guess by my email moniker [saintnow] that this one’s going to be a doozy.
I make no judgments based on a person’s email address. I judge people based on what they say and do.
I have read a lot of your pages,
How many, exactly? Remember, I have access to the site server logs. Based on your email address, I know exactly how many pages you have read. Are you sure you want to go with “a lot of your pages?” Out of 4,000+ pages, Richard, how many did you actually read?
so I have an idea of what things will trigger what kind of reaction/response you might have.
If this is so, then why bother to contact me?
First, I want to say I appreciated your commentary about the IFB movement and the rise and fall of Emmanuel Baptist Church; which article finally triggered enough from me to offer my two cents.
Thank you.
I currently attend an IFB church. I’m wondering about it’s rising and likely future fall which I can almost prophecy is coming; following in the patter of the ministry of “the Doc”. I know the people at the church well and I see the trends which I believe will eventually bring the same results as befell Emmanuel. Your commentaries are very much in line with my observations about the faults and weaknesses…..achilles heels….within IFB circles.
The IFB church movement is a dangerous cult. There’s no such thing as a “good” IFB church. IFB beliefs cause psychological harm, and, at times, physical harm. My advice to people attending IFB churches is always the same: RUN!
It is probably impossible for me to convince you to change your mind as you have spent a lifetime arriving at your stance, and you will never convince me that your rejection of Jesus Christ could possibly be a valid decision for me.
You can certainly try to convince me to change my mind about God/Jesus/Christianity/Bible. All I ask is that you provide empirical evidence for your claims. Not bald assertions. Not subjective personal testimonies. Not Bible quotations. Actual verifiable objective evidence. So far, no Christian has provided me with sufficient evidence to warrant me changing my mind.
I am more than happy to look at your “evidence,” Richard. How about you look at mine? Let’s start with your belief that the Bible is inerrant and infallible. Better yet, have you read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books?
As the young lady at Columbine who looked her killer in the eye and answered yes when at gunpoint she was asked if she believes in Jesus Christ before she was shot and killed, I too will gladly accept the honor of suffering for my Savior.
These words are meaningless. No one “knows” what they will do when in such moments. For the record, I think Cassie Bernall’s martyrdom story is largely a myth (as are many Evangelical testimonies).
Multiple reliable sources, including eyewitnesses who were with Bernall when she was shot, the teen who initially reported that she had been the one asked about belief in God, an audio recording and the FBI, determined within months of the massacre that Bernall was never asked the question at all.
Craig Scott, a student who was in the library, where Bernall and 11 others (including the two killers) died — and the brother of Rachel Scott, the first victim killed in the incident during the massacre, told investigators that he had heard one of the shooters ask a victim whether or not they believed in God during the shooting, and the female victim answered, “yes.” Scott, hiding under a table at the time, did not see the exchange, but told investigators the voice was Bernall’s. However, months later when Scott visited the library with investigators, he identified the wrong location for Bernall, pointing instead to where survivor Valeen Schnurr had been hiding.
Schnurr lay on the floor, injured. When one of the shooters, Dylan Klebold approached her, she said, “Oh, my God, oh, my God, don’t let me die.” Klebold asked her if she believed in God. She said she did, and when he asked why, she responded, “Because I believe and my parents brought me up that way.” Klebold did not shoot her again.
In addition, Columbine student Emily Wyant, who was hiding beneath a table next to Bernall, told investigators that Eric Harris had shot her without asking her any questions at all. He merely knocked on the table twice and said, “Peekaboo.” Another student hiding in the same location confirmed Wyant’s account. Wyant told Bernall’s parents that their daughter had not spoken to either killer prior to the publication of “She Said ‘Yes’,” written by Misty Bernall.
Investigators were aware that Bernall had not spoken with the killers early in the investigation, and even had an audio recording of what actually happened, courtesy of an art teacher.
You can proudly say that you spent your life learning to believe or disbelieve or however you want to call your philosophy and you too will proudly stand at gunpoint and insist there is no God before biting the bullet.
I am a man who lives by his convictions and hopes to die by them. There’s no God, Satan, Heaven, or Hell, so I have no fear over what awaits me. I am on the short side of life, with a few years, at best, to live. Instead of worrying about my nonexistent “soul,” I choose to focus on the here-and-now; on my beautiful wife; on my six adult children and their spouses; on my thirteen awesome grandchildren; on the work I do through this blog; on good food; on just enjoying the moments before me.
You know what the Bible says about that, so I’ll spare you the irritation of repeating it.
Why should I care about what an ancient religious text says about anything? The Bible has no authority, power, or control over me. The Bible is just words on pages.
Now, in hope that we both understand we will not persuade the other for or against Jesus Christ, I don’t know what else to say. I do hope to get a personal response from you, but I don’t expect it as it seems you have quite an enterprise to manage now.
Consider yourself “responded to.” 🙂
Congratulations for the success of your new ministry since denouncing the Word of God.
Thank you, even though you meant your comment sarcastically. I have a far greater reach today than I ever did as an Evangelical pastor. Day by day I continue to win souls, baptizing them in the name of reason, skepticism, and common sense. I implore you, Richard, to join the one true church. Membership is free, no tithing required. Don’t waste your life worshipping a God who does not exist; a Jesus who is dead; and a book that has little to offer twenty-first-century humans. Freedom awaits outside of the box. (Please see The Danger of Being in a Box and Why it Makes Sense When You Are In It and What I Found When I Left the Box.)
Richard later left a comment that said:
……..To the atheist (nothing personal, Bruce) So you insist God is a myth,
I am an agnostic atheist. Look it up. I think the extant deities created by humans, including Jehovah, Allah, and the triune God of Christianity, are myths. There may be a creator that has not yet made itself known to us, so I remain agnostic on the God question.
Are you not an atheist too, rejecting as myths all deities but yours?
and you are at least temporarily real I guess.
I am as real as you are, and I will be as dead as you will be someday. There’s no evidence that I know of that proves humans live after they die. Once we die, Richard, we stay dead. Even Jesus remains buried somewhere on a Judean hillside. Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise?
You insist there is no Hell to be saved from, no God to fear, no Savior to save you.
Yep, yep, and yep. Why do you continue to believe things for which you have no evidence?
Such a stance is nothing new, did it really take all that long to get there?
I have no idea what you are asking here. It took me fifty years to reach where I am today because I was deeply indoctrinated. Breaking free from Evangelical indoctrination and conditioning took time. Better late than never, even for you, Richard.
I guess there is no way out for you.
Way out? From what. You will find the following advice on my About Page:
“You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.”
I live by this advice each and every day.
And I guess it’s not a problem for you, so why should it be a problem for anybody else?
I have no idea what you are asking here.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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