From time to time, I approve comments from a Fundamentalist Christian man who uses the “Revival Fires” pseudonym. He uses numerous other names and fake email addresses, but I change the name on his comments to Revival Fires. I don’t want people to think Jim, Bob, James, et al are different commenters. They are not. Revival Fires has a style, so as much as he tries to hide who he is, I can spot his comments as easily as a pink elephant standing in the middle of my living room.
In the past, I have deleted comments from the Revival Fires of the world (after their first comment). Of late, I have dialed my moderation back a bit, choosing to let Revival Fires and other Christian zealots whip out their metaphorical dicks and expose themselves to the world. I do this for one reason: I want readers to see firsthand the ugly, vicious, vile underbelly of Evangelicalism. And most importantly, I want readers to understand that Revival Fires is not an outlier, an exception to the rule. Millions of Evangelicals believe just as Revival Fires does. Oh, they are not as uncouth and ill-bred as Revival Fires, but their beliefs are similar to his. Most Evangelicals have learned the fine art of hiding their hate, homophobia, and bigotry. Most Evangelicals support Trumpism and establishing a Christian theocracy governed by the Bible (as interpreted by them, of course). Privately, they disparage LGBTQ people, call abortion murder, and support all sorts of racist policies. The only difference between them and Revival Fires is that they have an outward form of manners, the equivalent of “bless your heart” in the deep south. Behind closed doors, they promote all sorts of beliefs and practices which, if allowed, will cause untold harm to people different from them. The most dangerous people in America are not Muslims. That title goes to Evangelicals, especially those who live on the far-right edge of the Evangelical tent. Left to their own devices, Evangelicals will take over America for God — their God — enact Christian sharia law, and drag our nation back to the good old days of the 1950s. (Please see The Evangelical Plan to Return the United States to the 1950s.) We trust them at our own peril.
Back to Revival Fires’ comments. Do his comments bother you or make you less likely to read this blog? I think his (he is a male) comments are instructive and help expose Evangelicalism for what it is, but I don’t want to drive regular readers away.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
It never ceases to amaze me how Evangelicals think assertions are facts or truth. In classic presuppositionalist fashion, they assume, without evidence, that their assertions are self-evident, and only people who suppress the truth deny them. This allows them to dismiss out of hand anyone who disagrees with them.
Most Evangelicals are not taught to “think.” Instead, they are encouraged to regurgitate the “truth” preached from church pulpits. Even those who show intellectual ambition typically only read books and listen to people who reinforce their beliefs. I read lots of books, heavy theological tomes, as an Evangelical pastor. However, every book in my library of over 1,000 books reinforced my beliefs. Sure, I was challenged around the edges of my beliefs, but I didn’t read one author that challenged my core beliefs. I was almost fifty years old before I read books that caused me to question my beliefs about the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible and the central tenets of Christianity.
God’s word stands on its own. We can argue for and against it, but it isn’t affected by either. God is in charge. We are not. I will say this. If you are unsaved now, you always were.
Justin asserted:
The Protestant Christian Bible (KJV?) stands on its own.
The Bible is impervious to criticism.
God is in control (sovereign).
If I am unsaved now, I never was saved.
Justin provides no evidence for his claims. He just baldly, arrogantly, and self-righteously asserts that they are true. He assumes, wrongly, that these “truths” cannot be challenged; that they are “facts” that reasonable people know are true.
In what ways does the Bible stand on its own? After all, it’s just a collection of books, mostly written by unknown authors. Surely, Justin is not claiming the Bible, either at the manuscript or translation level, is without error? If so, I wonder if he knows and understands that this claim cannot be intellectually sustained?
I will make the same offer to Justin I have made to other Evangelicals: I will have shipped to your home one of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the nature and history of the Bible. Free of charge. All I ask is that you read it and meaningfully engage me on its content. Fourteen years in, I have yet to have one Evangelical take me up on my offer. Why is that?
You see, when you live in the Evangelical bubble, and even more so in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) bubble, you are walled off from any and all “truth” but your own. Certain that you are right, you see no need to engage beliefs contrary to your own. As I have said numerous times before, certainty breeds arrogance.
Justin asserts that “God is in control,” but outside of select Bible verses, there’s no evidence for his claim. All one needs to do is look at the world to see that the God of the Bible is not in control, and if, perchance, he is, he should be fired immediately. The evidence suggests that we are on our own and that we alone can affect change. Evangelicals admitted this much when they abandoned preaching the gospel and winning souls for raw, naked political power.
Finally, Justin, unable to square my story with his peculiar theological beliefs, attacks me personally, saying that I never was saved. I have provided mountains of evidence that suggests otherwise, but, Justin, with a wave of his hand, dismisses the fifty years I spent in the Christian church and the twenty-five years I spent slavishly and devotedly following Jesus Christ, preaching the gospel, winning souls, and living according to the teachings of the Bible. (And I would be more than happy to have a Christian dick-measuring contest with Justin if he is interested in doing so. I’m John Holmes confident that my life as a Christian more than measures up to his.)
Best I can tell, Justin read all of one post on this site. I encourage him to read the posts found on the WHY? page before ignorantly passing judgment on my life. God’s Holy Word says in Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Justin, if you are reading this, please listen to God. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I received the following email:
So, when you were a Christian, did you have a relationship with the Lord? And if you did, did you not study the bible, asking Him how you should apply what is written into your life? Did you not realize all the he said, she said of different Christian religions is all man made, laws and rituals (earthly confusion I think making others/us separated from God ) and not to be our basis for judging one another, because that is God’s job anyways.
I was raised catholic. I married a divorced Lutheran, and my scales were slowly being removed, as my mother in law told me, you know there will be others besides catholics in heaven…that rocked my world. . Fast forward 25 years of living in Houston Texas and many different Christian churches, all having nuances that makes them their label, but the church began when Jesus started preaching? Or died? I don’t really know, but does that affect my salvation? I believe no one shall come to the Father except through the Son. So, how did you break off your relationship with Our Lord? You know, He’s never let go of you and there’s nothing you can do to separate His love for you. I’m glad I don’t have it all figured out, because I bet you don’t have peace if you’re still lost in this stuff you’re trying to hold onto. Pride is a sneaky thing. But God loves His perfectly imperfect children.
Let me see if I can unpack some of what the letter writer says and asks, hopefully providing adequate answers to her questions.
The letter writer asserts that once someone becomes a Christian Jesus holds on to them f-o-r-e-v-e-r. She tells me that nothing can separate the believer from the love of Christ. Romans 8:31-39 states:
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This means that if I was ever truly a Christian, I still am. No matter what I say or do, Jesus still loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life.
Based on her questions, I suspect that the letter writer has some doubts about whether I truly was ever a saved, sanctified, bought-by-the-blood Christian. She asks, did you have a relationship with the Lord? Of course I did. For most of my life, I was closer to and more intimate with Jesus than I was with my wife. I loved Jesus more than I loved my spouse and children. Jesus was the be-all and the end-all, the first and the last, the alpha and omega. I spent time daily talking to Jesus and reading his favorite book — the King James Version of the Protestant Bible. No one ever doubted who Bruce Gerencser put first in his life. I know Polly didn’t, and it wouldn’t have surprised me if she had divorced me, alleging neglect. I am grateful that she didn’t, and now I have the opportunity to show her who it is I really, really, really love, worship, and adore.
The letter writer also asks if I studied the Bible and sought to apply its teachings to my life. I sure did, day in, day out from the age of fifteen to the age of fifty. The word of God was an ever-present reality in my life. I studied, memorized, and practiced its words. As many aging ex-Christians with fading memories do, I have a hard time remembering what I watched on TV last night, but I can quote hundreds of Bible verses I memorized decades ago — all the way back to age five. As a pastor, I spent, on average, more than twenty hours a week reading and studying the Bible. From such studious endeavors, I bathed myself in THUS SAITH THE LORD. I preached thousands of sermons and shared the gospel of Christ with hundreds and hundreds of people. Simply put, I was all in when it came to following Jesus (as anyone who knew me at the time will tell you).
The letter writer wonders if I have peace. Yes and no, When it comes answering the question, do gods exist, I have no worries or concerns about saying NO. I am at peace with my atheism and humanistic beliefs. I have no fears of judgment or Hell. So, from this perspective, I have a Gandhian-level of peace. That said, I can’t say that I am totally at peace. How can I be? I watch the news every night. Scary stuff going on in the world. That said, most, if not all, of these things are out of my control. Generally, I am stoic about life, a pessimist with streaks of hopefulness.
I am almost sixty-five years old, and most of my life is in the rear-view mirror. My children and grandchildren, however, have many roads to travel before reaching home. I want them to have a better tomorrow, one where love, peace, and justice prevail. So while current events worry the heavenly hell out of me, I am committed to doing all I can to make the world a better place to live. One way I do so is to lay an ax to the bare root of Christian Fundamentalism, hoping that, in time, this tree of hate and bigotry will come crashing to the ground. And then I plan to chop the tree into firewood, have a bonfire, and roast hot dogs and marshmallows over its dying ember.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Just when I think I have heard every possible explanation for my past and present life, a Christian will cook up a new explanation that he believes properly explains my storyline. Unwilling to let me tell my own story — while demanding I accept their testimony of faith in a dead man named Jesus — these diviners of truth think they know me better than I know myself. Take Doug, who sent me an email that stated:
I just really stumbled on your site today . You r not an atheist or agnostic you and I both know that is not true . You just have become very bitter some where along the line. What triggered that only u know . The things u at one time believed u still believe . it is sad that u have taken the stand u have . The Bible states that it is possilble to even forget u have been saved by allowing bitterness to come n . U r n my prayers !
Let me summarize Doug’s divination of my mind:
I am not an atheist and I know it.
I am not an agnostic and I know it.
I am a Christian who has become bitter.
What triggered this bitterness, only I know.
What I once believed, I still, deep down in my heart of hearts — down where the Holy Ghost is snoozing away — believe.
I have forgotten that I am saved because I have allowed bitterness to come into my life.
Got all that?
First, Evangelicals such as Doug confuse directness with bitterness. I say what I mean, and mean what I say. There is nothing in my writing that suggests bitterness. Only Evangelicals who can’t square my life with their theology say I am bitter. Now if someone said I was angry or irritated, that would be different. Anger is a normal human emotion. I’ve learned to harness my anger and turn it into words and actions. I have found it is better to embrace my anger than pretend it does not exist or to think that being angry is a sin or weakness. But bitterness? Not a chance. Ask those who know me if I am bitter and they will tell you no. Being bitter is just not who I am.
Second, I am an atheist. Say that real, real s-l-o-w: Bruce Gerencser is an atheist. Shouldn’t I be the one to determine who and what I am? If I say I am an atheist and my beliefs and actions are consistent with atheism, shouldn’t my self-identification be taken at face value? Imagine me saying to Doug, You are not a Christian Doug, You know it, and I know it. Doug would be offended, as he well should be. If Doug says he is a Christian, then I should accept what he says, especially if his beliefs and actions are consistent with Christianity
Third, no I do not believe what I once believed. I don’t know how any person in his right or left mind can read my writing and conclude that I still believe what I once did. I had several belief changes as a Christian, so what beliefs specifically do I still believe? My beliefs in 1976 when I entered college were very different from my beliefs as a pastor in 1989, and my beliefs in 2003 when I pastored my last church were different from my beliefs in 1989. He who attempts to judge my beliefs at a certain point in time will likely be wrong. My beliefs continue, even today, to evolve and change. Old beliefs are challenged, corrected, or abandoned. New beliefs are embraced and believed until new evidence and knowledge force change. Even at the ripe old, curmudgeonly age of sixty-four, I still have the capacity to learn new things. New sex positions, for example. Learning them of course doesn’t mean I can do them. 🙂
One aspect of learning new things is the discarding of previous beliefs. I once was an Evangelical Christian. My theology was orthodox in every way. Today? I no longer believe in the existence of the Christian God. I no longer believe Jesus is God, nor do I believe he was virgin born and resurrected from the dead. Jesus was a man who lived and died two thousand years ago, end of story. I reject all the cardinal beliefs of Christianity, yet somehow, according to Doug I, still believe what I once believed. Pray tell, how is that so? Who better to know what I believe than yours truly?
Fourth, I have not forgotten I am saved. I know exactly when I was saved because I was there when Jesus saved me, and I know when I lost my salvation too, almost fourteen years ago. But Bruce, the Bible says once saved, always saved. Once Jesus saves you, you are forever his! What the Bible says is immaterial. After all, millions of Christians believe the exact opposite, that Christians can fall from grace, losing their salvation. Some Christians believe that once you have lost it you can never get it back. Regardless of how someone interprets the Bible and what soteriology they extract from its pages, shouldn’t I be the final arbiter on this side of the grave as to whether I am a Christian? Surely, it’s up to me to decide who and what I am.
So to all the Christian Dougs of the blogosphere, I say this: don’t think you can know me better than I know myself. You don’t. My wife of almost forty-four years knows me best, yet she doesn’t know everything about me. I see a counselor on a regular basis. She knows things about me that no one else knows. You know, things such as my secret desire to be a slinky, kinky crossdresser, complete with panties with the days of the week on them and red stiletto heels. Picture that in your mind, readers! 🙂 I wonder if published pictures of me in drag would change Doug’s mind about my s-a-l-v-a-t-i-o-n? If so, get ready Doug. High-resolution photographs are on their way!
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
My dear friend Zoe recently wrote the following for a blog post titled My Benediction:
Like all the years I studied to understand my former Christian belief system. At some point, I moved on from that, though I can engage, I often choose not to. Or, I limit my input. There comes a time when the sorrow attached to it all weighs heavily on the heart. The exercise has been beneficial for understanding me, mom, and a lot of humanity throughout history. I don’t have the energy anymore to go point by point to try and warn and or educate. My therapist shared something, with a caveat that at first this sounds terrible to say, but: Some people are just terminal.
Without going into more personal detail, this wasn’t about suicide or suicidal ideation. This was more about, if I understand it correctly, accepting that some people can’t be moved. And it’s more than a sense of them not wanting to move, they just can’t. They are in their own world and regardless of the reasons, some people can’t reason other than where they are at.
Over the years of recovery for me, I have read, I have studied, I have prayed my knees raw (in those years), I have listened, I have contemplated, I have educated myself and I have played devil’s advocate. If you’re going to try to educate others then you have to spend time studying the other side. Until of course, it’s time to stop. It doesn’t matter about their new tricks. There aren’t any new tricks. Actually, nothing has changed. I look at Christianity. What has really changed? Maybe that there are more denominations/sects now than when I joined up . . . but they’re still Christianity.
I met Zoe back in my emerging/emergent Christian days; my “barely” Christian days. She’s been around for the whole Bruce Gerencser Show — all five acts. Both of us have spent years interacting with abrasive, hostile Evangelical Christians with few satisfying outcomes. We have learned over time that some people are just terminal; that no amount of evidence or emotional capital is going to change their minds.
Since 2007, I have interacted with thousands of Evangelical zealots. Virtually every one of these interactions miserably failed. Why? Until a person can entertain the thought that they just might be wrong or that their beliefs might be untrue, there’s no hope for them. Most people who deconvert do so from the privacy of the shadows. One of the reasons I respond to hostile Evangelicals is to help the thousands of lurkers who frequent this site, but never comment or email me. Taking what they learn from my writing and the comments of readers, doubting believers think about their beliefs — whether they are rational and evidence-based. I love hearing from such people, learning that something I said made a meaningful difference in their lives.
Some days, I enjoy engaging Evangelical zealots for sport. I haven’t heard an original argument for the veracity of Christianity and the Bible in over a decade. When a know-it-all Evangelical thinks they can “educate” me, put me in my place, or “save” me, I lick my chops and say, “may I have BBQ sauce for the beef I’m about to shred?”
Other days, I am just content to sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.) I’m with Zoe when she says, “I don’t have the energy anymore to go point by point to try and warn and or educate.” Every day of my life is dominated by unrelenting pain, nausea, and bowel problems. Just getting out of bed is all I can do some days. Other days, I have a short window to do the things I want or need to do. Sunday, we went to Toledo to shop for groceries: Fresh Tyme Market, Costco, Monnette’s Market, and Meijer, finishing the night with dinner at Texas Roadhouse. Did I overdo it? Big time, as my counselor will remind me on Thursday. Two days later, I am still having a hard time moving. This afternoon, I had a steroid injection in my right hip. In two weeks, I will have an injection in my left hip. My orthopedic was brutally honest with me, saying that he was doubtful, based on the location of the pain, that the injections will be helpful. I am willing to give it a try, hoping to improve the quality of my life. Either that or maybe I’ll take up “praying.” 🙂 With these things and others as the backdrop of my life, I hope Evangelicals who want to grind on me like a stripper giving an IFB preacher a lapdance, understand if I don’t pay attention to them. For those I do, you are “special.” 🙂 Oh so “special” . . .
Are you an atheist, agnostic, or non-Christian? Have you changed the way you interact with Evangelicals over the years? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I received an email from an Evangelical man who said that Lucifer and I have a lot in common. Of course, I have a leg up on Lucifer. Unlike the Devil, I actually exist. And that is why frustrated, angry, outraged Evangelicals continue to send me email.
This email writer, who goes by the name Duane, came to this site as a result of a Yahoo search that led him to the post Holy Spirit Tells Jeremiah Johnson That Donald Trump is the Trumpet of God. He also read Why I Hate Jesus. All told, Duane spent less than ten minutes reading my writing. I am always amazed at how quickly the Holy Spirit leads Evangelicals to pass judgment on my past and present life.
What follows is the text of Duane’s email. No commentary from me is needed. 🙂
Man you have a really big problem. You talk about Jesus as if he let you down. Only you can reconcile with Jesus, in your time before he calls you to the throne of his judgement seat. This is promised to you and everyone who has walked this earth.
You seem to forget one thing. The Paraclete is the only friend you have. The third part of the trinity of God. Oh of coarse you do have a choice to go with the other guy. You know, the guy in the Bible who was God’s favorite creation. The highest Angel that God created in the very beginning of the story.
Yes the story that you seem to mock in your philosophy and writings that I have briefly read. That’s right, the other guy, who wanted to be God. Lucifer, not too different than your self who is self proclaimed and looking to lead people down the wrong path, with the lies of the world.
You do have a destiny that is promised to you and everyone who lives and breathes the same air, that God breathed into Adam. Yes you too are not getting off this planet alive. And then you will meet the face of Jesus, who was and is and is to come. I know this all sounds familiar to you yet some where along the way you lost yourself and all that God has promised you.
I love you and pray for you and all your family. I love you and God loves and Jesus loves you. You know how I know this. Because His tomb is empty! Amen and Amen
Sincerely, Duane **********
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I shared with readers an email discussion I had with Larry Beer, an Evangelical Christian. Based on Larry’s search history, it is likely he is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB).
Today, I received two more emails from Larry .
First Email
You can tell me to fuckoff or any word you chose, but I am still here in the presence of the God you believe does not exist and I love you as he loves all of us even though we do not believe it exists.
Love mean nothing when hate rules the mind and the heart you have found from others then you give back what they gave to you that you think is your love to expose hate?
You have the same unloving feelings of the Evangelists in your mind that you blame God changed them into yet you say God does not exist.
I am here any time you want to talk about why you do not like me even though I like you as my friend every minute of the day or night.
Second Email
Okay Bruce your totally right, there is no God or Satan to blame for our own desires and choices.
You gave the worldwide invitation on your own site; yes people gave you undeniable hate.
I do not see what you’re complaining about when you give back what you receive even to those who do not believe as you do you by you doing the same things you judge other for doing!
Yes you can tell me to fuckoff and ignore me that your own freewill choice, not mine;
When I was in a complete nervous breakdown and told I would end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life guess what Bruce all that was healed by the same God you chosen to refuse to believe.
I know God is my judge for I know him by his love he gives to me and I tell you that is yours as well, what you do with that truth is your own freewill choice.
I will be here any time you can think Larry does love you because there is a God or why would I take the time to even go on your site.
No commentary from me. Larry’s words speak for themselves. He’s starting to sound like a stalker, someone who has a perverse understanding of “love” and “friendship.”
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, an Evangelical man named Tom Howard sent me the following email:
FAKE, fake, fake, faker. 25 yrs a fake. How many people did you fake out over those years? Imagine living as long as you have and concluding life as a fake so called atheistic demoncrat. Satan has faked you out and you haven’t a clue. The gall of you calling yourself an atheist yet fully espousing the Christian world view of morality, family, marriage, lawful living, what a faker! Your poor wife and kids must really hold you in high esteem, so just find a juniper tree and self abort and confirm your fake beliefs. This is all in the spirit of 1Tim5:20
1 Timothy 5:20 says
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
“Good” Christians always find a Bible verse to justify their hate.
If Heaven is where the Tom Howards of the world will be, please book me a suite in Hell.
What is it about Evangelical Christianity that turns some believers into vile, hateful people?
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I answer every email I receive, even those from Evangelicals. Some days, as you shall see in a moment, I wonder why I bother. What follows is the email interaction I had with Larry, an Evangelical Christian from Canada.
Enjoy! 🙂
Larry:
Hi Bruce,
Just as comment I feel your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.
I can only say whatever has influenced you was real to you and I am sorry the beginning of your life was not what you expected, but I hope what you have left will bring you some blessings of acceptance of others who do not believe as you do.
Sincerely; Larry, a person caring about others much as I care about myself.
Bruce:
Everyone, including nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelicals are free to say anything they want in one comment. If they show they can play well with others, they will be given an opportunity to comment again. So, I have no idea what you are complaining about.
What makes you think I don’t accept people who believe differently from me?
Larry:
I wasn’t complaining just don’t understand what you are complaining about?
You obviously don’t accept anyone who claims God just wondering who that hurts you or them?
I am open to any comment and I do not hate your for any thing.
Bruce:
Evangelicalism is inherently harmful. I have fleshed out the reasons for this claim numerous times over the years.
My blog affords me an opportunity to tell my story and critique Evangelicalism (and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement). My target audience is people who have doubts about Christianity or who have left Christianity.
You said “your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.” That simply is not true. Every reader gets at least one opportunity to comment — even Christian assholes. I answer every email I receive, and I receive lots of them, most of which are negative or hostile. Thus, I am at a loss to understand your complaint.
I have Christian friends. Tomorrow, I will have dinner with two Christian pastors. I have been doing so monthly for two years. I have Christian family members, including some of my children. So, your claim about not accepting Christians (or people from other faiths) is not true. That said, my blog belongs to me. I get to choose who I want to interact with. Since most Evangelicals are nasty, arrogant, and abusive towards me, I hope you will forgive me for not giving them the time of day (outside of exposing the bankruptcy of their “faith.”) As long as Evangelicals cause harm, I plan to speak out against their beliefs and practices. They have taken over the Republican Party, tried to overthrow the government on January 6, and are waging a jihad against LGBTQ people, women who need abortions, and people of color. These things matter, yes?
Larry:
Yes all people matter, even those who do not care about you or I.
We can all be assholes, that is just another name given as hate to those who disagree with others.
People are people not Gods. Anyone can claim that are do thing for God but God is real or he is not. If some thinks he does exist he won’t exist to them, so why blame anyone for their own unloving characters as if God caused it.
Is that what you want people to now, just asking?
Bruce:
Sorry, Larry, “asshole” is an objective term. We all can be assholes at times, but some people are assholes 24-7, as emails to me and comments on my site clearly show. This is not about disagreement, it’s about character. Try walking in my shoes: threats of judgment and hell, death threats, threatening to harm my wife or daughter with Down syndrome . . . every vile thing imaginable has been said to me by so-called followers of Jesus. So, spare me the false equivalence.
“God” turns some people in bad people. Again, all you have to do is read my blog to see the evidence for this claim. I don’t let these assholes hide in the shadows. I publicize their “works” for all to see.
I don’t understand your question.
Larry:
Thanks for the clarification.
Anyone can choose to believe there is a God or there is no God.
One thing for sure God guarantees if anyone earnestly seeks him, they will find him and know him.
Very simple, easy and it definitely can only be our own decision by our own minds and hearts not others.
Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. Anger is still anger but to refer them as being leader from God also attacks God.
God turns no one into anything or he would only be the devil.
God gave all of us a freewill choice in his image and we all choose to be what we are and how we treat others.
I am not asking a question I am replying to your invitation you give on your site and I have accepted you in love as I love myself.
I do not like being talked down to but I know God is real, not by others examples but as he said he is.
Your open so I came to let you know looking at others will never show the truth God there really is.
Your blessed with some much more than others in deeply sad fearful lives like wars and famines.
People who call other names, God will judge them not me.
You are not listening, you are “preaching.” I am an atheist, so any discussion about God/Satan is a waste of time. I simply don’t care.
You said, Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. I told you why they attack me, yet you ignore this and justify the atrocious behavior of your fellow Christians. Good job, Larry.
You wrongly think I am “open” to the bullshit you are peddling. I assure you, I am not.
We are done here.
Larry:
You have a site on worldwide internet, and you open to anyone as you have even said by your own choice, stop your site and all will be well.
Then go back and seek God and his love that will never condemn you, is that not worth seeking and knowing, my friend Bruce?
The others are in God’s hands also for he guarantees it.
Bruce:
Fuck off, Larry.
Thank you for not listening to one word I had to say.
You came to my site looking for info on Jack Hyles. You made no effort to read any of my autobiographical material. I assume, then, you had an agenda, not understanding and interaction.
Why would I go back and seek a mythical being, Larry? Do you realize how absurd you sound? Your religious babbling only works with people who believe. I don’t.
And you most certainly are not my friend.
Larry:
Thanks Bruce,
I read a lot and I love you as I love myself.
You believe or you would not be so angry.
Just another syrupy, passive-aggressive discussion with an Evangelical Christian only interested in preaching and evangelizing. What’s new, right?
Larry says he read a lot of my writing, but the server logs say he read one post about Jack Hyles before sending me an email. He may have read other posts, but I doubt it. Evangelicals lie about what they have read on this site all the time. Lots=two posts. Everything=five posts. If Larry extensively read my writing, his emails do not reflect it. Just once, I wish such people would read the posts on the WHY? page before emailing me or commenting. Instead, they practice Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Just remember, God said it, I didn’t. 🙂
I am sure some readers wonder why I bother answering emails and comments from the Larrys of the world. Doing so is largely a waste of time. Sometimes, however, I can reach someone, leading to them questioning their sincerely held beliefs. Any move away from Fundamentalism is a good one. Other times, these discussions provide fodder for this blog, shining a bright light on how Evangelical behave towards atheists, agnostics, and other believers. People such as John, James, Jim, David Tee, Lonnie, Larry, and a cast of thousands reveal the ugly, vicious underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. I have received enough of these emails and comments over the past fifteen years to conclude that these people are not just a few bad apples or crazy uncles. Like it or not, Evangelical beliefs and practices turn some Christians into hateful, meanspirited people; people who take pleasure in condemning people to Hell; people who revel in savagely attacking LGBTQ people; people who have no capacity to understand or accept people different from them.
That said, there are a handful of Evangelicals who regularly comment on this site. Some of them have been commenting for years. Scores of other Evangelicals faithfully read my writing. I am grateful for their love and support. If only most Evangelicals were like them, I suspect I would have a much better view of Evangelicalism. Not that I am going to return to the fold. That ship has sailed. For these Evangelicals, friendship in this life is enough for them. They are content to let God sort out things after death (as am I). Are they really Evangelicals? That’s for them to say. I generally accept how people self-identify. People have many and varied reasons for wearing the Evangelical moniker. Labels don’t matter much to me anyway, behavior does. I am always grateful for Evangelicals who put their humanity first.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an unhappy reader:
I (mostly) love your posts – the ones that focuses on general relevant matters/issues and not on yourself. As I receive the emails, please do not search in your blog logs…
Since I found your blog I was very impressed and even subscribed. I even engaged before which you entertained up to a point. But something has been bothering me and I could just not put my finger on it.
So I have to now say this even if it is simply to make me feel better – and no, it is not the ‘bitter’ ‘thing’. Although you lost your faith and changed your believe system, you have NOT lost two of the very ingrained characteristics of evangelical pastors/preachers: You still ‘know it all’/’have all the answers’ and is still very much judgemental, e.g. judging people on their language use. Maybe that is why evangelicals still like to engage with you, they can relate, as they see that you are actually one of them – at least in behavior/reaction!
And no, I am not an evangelical.
I replied:
Sigh.
Sorry, I checked the logs.
First, If you have been reading my writing for a while, then you know “I don’t know it all.” Not even close. Your baseless assertion is simply wrong. As far as being an expert on the IFB church movement or Evangelicalism in general, what do you want me to say? I am, in fact, an expert on these things. That’s why reporters contact me for background information and why I regularly do on-the-record interviews. I’m sure you know stuff too, right? I make no apology for what I know and who I am.
Second, we all make judgments. ALL OF US, as you did with this email; with your judgments about my character.
Third, I am not aware of me judging anyone for their language.
Fourth, if you don’t like me as a person, by all means, stop reading my writing. I wouldn’t want to offend your sensitivities further. Would you like me to unsubscribe you from receiving the emails?
Anything else?
The emailer responded:
It must have been in the middle of the night there in your part of the globe when you responded, so you do not sleep? And you were quite fast/swift at that to. Also, I do note that you responded in person, not via your PA. Thank you for confirming my observations. I did not judge, I observed. R.E. language comment, see (okay, so I suppose it is about ‘dogma language’) Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Geri Ungurean Calls for the Arrest and Execution of Dr. Tony Fauci
I am sure you know it all about the IFB church and so on. Be that as it may, my life was quite good before I even knew of some body called the IFB church or of Bruce Gerencser, and will be quite good post that. I just hoped that I could learn something from that church (even if from their bad example) and from you, but I prefer to learn from humble people. By the way, I stumbled across your blog when I researched some church in Auckland New Zealand, their teachings etc. and saw that you were approached to comment on that. So I am well aware of your credentials. I unsubscribed myself, don’t worry.
P.S. Don’t know why I still responded – suppose just to make myself feel better – selfish person that I am.
Based on the server logs, this person has been reading my writing since 2020. He (or she) clicked on the Contact link numerous times over the past two years before finally following through with an email.
I found this person’s emails to be quite puzzling. My writing style has been pretty much the same for years. If someone doesn’t like reading my personal, first-person posts, why bother to read my writing? This blog is primarily about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. Even when I write about issues, I tend to use lots of personal stories and analogies. This has always been the case. That said, I don’t care why people read. I just find it puzzling that this person waited two years before emailing me to tell me what he “really” thinks.
Now to the substance of his emails.
First, I am a late-nighter. Regular readers know this. I typically do my writing between the hours of 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm. My wife, Polly, works second shift as a manager at a large manufacturing concern in Archbold, Ohio, from 6:00 pm to 2:00 am. Typically, we go to bed around 4:00 am. (We’ve been a late-night family most of forty-three years of marriage.) Once I am in bed, it takes me two to four hours to get to sleep. Bedtime is the worst time for me, pain-wise. I fall asleep when drugs finally overwhelm the pain and I fall asleep in exhaustion. Typically, I sleep in two to three hour blocks. Bowel and bladder problems routinely interrupt my sleep. Thus you are likely to get an email or text from me when most people are fast asleep.
This person emailed me at 2:01 am. I responded at 2:49 pm. As far as being swift or fast with my response, is there an appropriate amount of time I am supposed to wait before responding? One of the reasons I promptly responded is that I wanted to respond instead of Carolyn. Trust me, if she had responded, I doubt the emailer would have been pleased with its tone. 🙂 She doesn’t suffer fools either. 🙂
Second, this person calling his email an “observation” is a distinction without a difference. We all make judgments. When I received his email, I made a judgment about him. He’s done the same with me. This man has determined I am a know-it-all, judgmental person, lacking humility. While I think his judgment is without merit, what could I possibly say to change his mind? That’s why I suggested he stop reading my writing. If his sensitivities are so easily offended by my words, it is best for him to avoid this blog.
Third, his claim that judge people for language use has no merit. Commenters are free to say whatever they want, even Evangelicals. EVERY, and I mean EVERY, Evangelical commenter is given one opportunity to say whatever he or she wants.
The email used a link to a quote by Geri Ungurean as evidence of me judging people for language. Huh? I made no commentary either in the post or in the comment section about Ungurean’s quote.
Fourth, I suspect the real issue here is that I speak authoritatively on the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement and Evangelicalism in general. I spent the first fifty years of my life in Evangelicalism, as a member, college student, and pastor. I have been writing about and critiquing Evangelicalism and the IFB church movement for two decades. I continue to follow these things closely, reading blogs, checking out websites, listening to podcasts, and watching YouTube videos. I do these things because it is my job. Does anyone think I would be wading in this cesspool if it wasn’t for this blog? Of course not. I have a job to do, and as long as I am physically able to do so, I plan to keep putting on my hip waders and wading into the Evangelical toilet. If this makes me a know-it-all or judgmental, so be it.
As far as humility is concerned, the emailer confuses my pointed, direct approach with arrogance. Not much I can do about this. Either you like my writing style, or you don’t. I have quit following a number of people over the years. Not one time did I ever think to send them an email telling them what I don’t like about them. Different strokes, for different folks, right? This doesn’t mean I don’t make mistakes or that I can’t do better. I try every day to be a better person and writer than I was the day before. It saddens me that the emailer was disappointed in me, but I have learned that I can’t be all things to all men. I am an old man, a cranky curmudgeon (please see I Make No Apologies for Being a Curmudgeon). I have a lot of “stuff” on my plate financially and health-wise, so I really don’t have much time to invest in changing the minds of people who don’t “like” me. I will listen and respond, but expecting me to be anyone other than who I am? It ain’t gonna to happen.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
