What follows is a short email “discussion” I had today with an Evangelical Christian named Shirley from North Carolina. Enjoy!
All spelling and grammar in the original.
Shirley:
And you are trying to “whip,up the crowd” for your own personal gain.
As you stated that you do not want or need prayers, I won’t waste my time with you either, however I do feel bad for you that you will miss the boat
Bruce:
Shirley,
And what, exactly, would I “personally gain”? Readership? Sure. Thousands of people read my blog. Money? Nope. What is it that really rubs you the wrong way? That I dare to tell my story? That I dare to speak the truth and share the secrets of the IFB church movement?
You won’t “waste” your time, yet you emailed me to tell me I’m headed for Hell (I get the boat 🚤 imagery). Why is that? Holy Ghost tell you to email me? Or are you just pissed off over what I wrote (I know what posts you looked at)?
Be Blessed. Bruce Gerencser
Shirley:
Bruce, you would gain an eternal life with Christ, not an eternal life in hell with Satan. I am not ticked off about anything you wrote, that is your right. I don’t care about how many people read your blog. That is not my concern. Money?–not my concern either.Evidently, at one point in time, you, supposedly, long for a personal relationship with our Savior. Don’t know what caused you to do a 180 on that.
It also doesn’t bother me that you know which articles that I do or do not read. It bothers me that you are in the same boat that Mr. Reagan, who is a ‘proud’ atheist
I don’t consider it a waste of my time praying that you will return to the saving grace of Christ, so I will pray for you.And it looks from your sign off of me being blessed that you may still want to have a relationship with God.That is where blessings come from/
Thank you for your response.John 3:16
Shirley ******
Bruce:
Shirley,
You said I was blogging for “personal gain.” So what am I “gaining” by blogging, outside of the fact that I have helped thousands of doubting Christians and people who have left Christianity?
My point on knowing what you read is to show that you lazily made no effort to understand my story. Had you bothered to show even a bit of curiosity, you would have known why I deconverted. https://brucegerencser.net/why/
“Be blessed” has nothing to do with Christianity.
Hell, eternal life, Satan, personal relationship with Jesus, saving grace, “praying for you,” . . . you got all the buzzwords in. And to what end? I was in the Christian church for 50 years. I was an Evangelical pastor for 25 years. I was a devoted follower of Jesus for most of my life. What could you possibly say that I don’t already know? I suspect your emails are more about “you” than “me.”
Let me leave you with a message straight from God: Answering before listeningis both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
Bruce Gerencser
Shirley:
Wow Bruce, you went from semi-demented to full blown cut throat attack.
I will go back to my first post in stating that you are not worth me wasting my time.
I am not going back and forth with you so you have a nice life, if you can.
Bruce:
Shirley,
Remember, you are the one who emailed me. What in my responses to you are demented or a cutthroat attack?
As long as you keep hitting “send,” I will respond. You can stop embarrassing yourself at any time
You have been passive-aggressive — a common Evangelical/IFB trait — from the git-go. Why else would you say, “have a nice life, if you can.” Why wouldn’t I have a “nice” life? Are you suggesting I can’t have a “nice” life without your peculiar version of Jesus? I’ve been married for 43 years. I have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. We own our own home, drive a 2020 Ford Edge, and, by all accounts have a “nice’ life. I live with chronic, unrelenting pain from gastroparesis (an incurable stomach disease), fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis. I have four herniated discs in my upper back. I am slowly dying, but that aside, I have a “nice” life. Awesome wife, wonderful children, and supercalifragilisticexpialidocious grandchildren. All without God, Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible. Nice, right?
Thank you for emailing me. Your emails will make for a “nice” blog post later tonight.
Be well.
Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Vaughn Longanecker, a vocal Evangelical Christian from Oregon, sent me an email today. Longanecker, showing no curiosity, read all of one post on this site — Sixteen Reasons Why I am Not a Christian — before he fired off an email to me. Not meant to be a lengthy thesis on the reasons why I am no longer a Christian, I wrote:
What follows are sixteen reasons WHY I am not a Christian. There are many more reasons than these, but this list should satisfy those who continue to prod and poke, trying to find the REAL reason(s) I am no longer a Christian.
I no longer think the Bible is a God-inspired text.
I no longer think the Bible is an inerrant text.
I no longer think Jesus is God.
I no longer think Jesus was virgin-born.
I no longer think Jesus turned water into wine, walked on water, healed the sick, raised the dead, or performed any of the other miracles the Bible says he did.
I no longer think Jesus resurrected from the dead. Jesus lived and died, never to be seen again.
I no longer think there is a Heaven or a Hell.
I think the belief that God will torture all non-Christians in Hell for all eternity is repugnant, abhorrent, revolting, repulsive, repellent, disgusting, offensive, objectionable, cringeworthy, vile, foul, nasty, loathsome, sickening, nauseating, hateful, detestable, execrable, abominable, monstrous, appalling, insufferable, intolerable, unacceptable, contemptible, unsavory, and unpalatable.
I think the Bible shows a progression of belief from polytheism to monotheism.
I think the Bible teaches multiple plans of salvation.
I think much of the so-called history found in the Bible is fictional.
I think the Bible God is an abhorrent, violent deity, one I would not worship even if I believed it existed.
I think science best explains the natural world.
I no longer think humans are sinners.
I think humanism provides a moral and ethical basis for life.
I see no evidence for the existence of the Christian God; thus I am an atheist.
These reasons are based on a lifetime spent studying the Bible and studying the textual, historical, and moral underpinnings of Christianity. These studies led me to conclude that the Christian God is a fiction, as is much of the Christian narrative.
Evidently, Longanecker didn’t like this post, so he decided to ignore the statements on the contact page:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/ psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
and send me the following email. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
Are you in the least a Nicodemus, wanting to know how to “see the Kingdom of God”/be saved/have eternal life/go to heaven? “…you must be born again”. (Jn. 3:3) Before you answer that answer this question, “how much did you have to do with your first birth? Correct answer, “nothing” (only answer that can truthfully be right). How much does any person have to do with their second birth?” Yes, it is the same answer, the only correct answer, the only answer that God’s plan of salvation and in creation that is possible, “nothing”.
Of course, I was a Nicodemus — a man who was born from above at the age of fifteen, called to preach a few weeks later, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I am not sure what point Longanecker is trying to make? That I “saved” myself? Nothing could be farther from the truth, as anyone who knew me would testify. That said, I would be more than happy to engage Longanecker in a discussion about what the Bible actually says about “salvation.” There are numerous plans of salvations in the Bible.
So where does that leave you with your supposed ability to have become a Christian on your “think”/belief/abilities, and your abilities to supposedly nullify, reverse, make something that God did as though it never occurred. For this to have occurred you would have to be able to do what God has done, make planets, DNA, prophecy, (try the challenge of Is. 40-46, if you have any abilities or wisdom that are equal to Almighty God, prophecy), incarnate from deity, die and come back to life.
Longanecker believes once a person is saved he can’t lose his salvation. Thus, the only possible answer is that I never was a Christian. If God really “saved’ me, it is impossible for me to deconvert. This kind of thinking reveals a lack of imagination of Longanecker’s part and a lack of understanding of the various soteriological systems. Arminians, for example, have no problem understanding my loss of faith.
Here’s what I know, I once was saved and now I am not. That Longnecker can’t square my story with his theology is his problem, not mine.
So, are you greater than God, you who make yourself out to be god, knowing what is true and what is not ?
Welp, there is no God, so, yes I am greater than God. Now, I don’t call myself God. That title is reserved for my wife. I worship her, especially when she feeds me. We do, however, believe in the Devil. Everytime our two youngest grandchildren, ages two and four, come over, we are reminded that the devil walketh about seeking what he may break and love. 🙂
You who got what being a Christian so wrong, we should listen to what you “think”, more than that which has been historically, archeologically and spiritually to be true, we should listen to what you “think”, over that which not just Nicodemus knew was obvious but millions upon billions of both “Christian” and pagans and secular and atheist and those from other religious persuasions that Jesus wisdom and miracles have effected billions around the world for their worldly benefit and eternal life.
I am just one man with a story to tell. All I can do is share what I think. Unlike Longanecker, I have an open mind, a willingness to understand and embrace the stories of others, even if they are different from mine. Longanecker, based on a quick search I did on his unique name, busily travels the Internet’s highways and byways preaching his peculiar version of Christianity. All I do is write. Longanecker came to this site of his own volition. He chose to read my writing. He could have meaningfully engaged me on one or more articles, but he chose not to. Instead, he disparagingly preached AT me. What did he hope to gain by taking this masturbatory approach?
Perhaps, Longanecker will read this post and respond. Perhaps he has a test I could take that would show me that understanding of Christianity is every bit as comprehensive as his. Time for a gospel dick showdown.
Bruce, John, and Vaughan see who knows more about Christianity
You don’t need to “rethink”, you need to repent of all your “thinking”. (Mt. 4:17)
Evidently, in Longanecker’s world, “thinking” is a bad idea. What he wants me to do is ignore what I “know” and just faith-it. Sorry, that ship has sailed. I’ve been to the Promised Land. Why would I ever want to return to the garlic and leeks of Egypt? Evangelicalism has nothing to offer me — literally. Well, I do miss the potlucks, but outside of that, Evangelicalism is the ghost of Christmas past.
Longanecker’s email has nothing to do with me. He has a pathological need to be “right.” What better way to fill this need than seeking out non-Evangelicals, atheists, and agnostics and preach AT them, letting them know they are w-r-o-n-g.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Note: I assume the author of the following comment is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Regardless of his denominational affiliation, my comments still stand.
I graduated from Purdue University in 1997 with a master’s degree. I attended Hyles Anderson College 1 year and worked on the “Bus Ministry ” 1993. I transferred to Purdue only because of the engineering program.
I can honestly say that I never saw anything inappropriate, but I’m sure some of the stories are true. It was a large church, maybe 20k or larger. So in proportion, it’s probably like finding all the sex offenders who attended Purdue, a 40k campus. I’m sure one can dig up 25 out of 40,000 over 25 years
Where oh where do I begin? First, just because YOU “never saw anything inappropriate” doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Second, Lee suggests that some of the claims of sexual assault, rape, and other sex crimes at Hyles-Anderson College and First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, didn’t happen. How, exactly, does he know this to be true? What evidence does he have that women are lying about being assaulted?
Evidently, Lee doesn’t have the Internet where he lives. Had he bothered to do a bit of reading on this subject, he would have found a plethora of information about rampant sexual abuse in IFB churches, colleges, and ministries. Both the Chicago Tribune and the Houston Chronicle took an in-depth look at the sex scandal-plagued IFB church movement. I have spent the past fourteen years shining a light on sexual abuse (and non-criminal sexual misconduct) committed by IFB pastors, youth pastors, evangelists, missionaries, deacons, Sunday school teachers, and college professors. Others such as Julie Roys and Christa Brown have done the same. Even secular groups such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation have tracked and reported on sex crimes perpetrated by so-called men of God. All of this information was available to Lee, yet he either doesn’t have access to it, or he thinks all the reporting on sexual assault is much-to-do about nothing — an insignificant problem.
How can one read about Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, David Hyles, and a host of other leaders at Hyles-Anderson and First Baptist and not conclude that the college and church have a systemic problem with sexual misconduct?
I also want to address Lee’s statements about sexual assault on the campuses of Purdue University. According to Lee’s “math,” Purdue averages one sexual assault per year: 25 out of 40,000 over 25 years. Surely he’s kidding, right? It took me all of thirty seconds to find stories about sexual assault at Purdue. Last October, there were four reports of sexual assault over a several-week period.
More than one in five Purdue University female undergraduates say they’ve experienced a sexual assault since beginning college, and about one in eight say it happened during the current year, the school said Monday.
Purdue released the findings of a Campus Climate Survey on sexual assault sponsored by the Association of American Universities to coincide with the AAU’s release of an aggregate report from 27 institutions nationwide. Purdue was the only Indiana institution participating in the survey.
At Purdue, 21.9 percent of female undergraduates on the main campus in West Lafayette who responded to the survey said they had been sexually assaulted since beginning college, slightly lower than the 23.1 percent AAU aggregate, the university said. Also, 13.2 percent reported they had been sexually assaulted during the current year, the same as the aggregate finding.
Sexual assault was defined as experiencing nonconsensual sexual penetration or sexual touching involving physical force or incapacitation.
….
The survey was sent this spring to nearly 780,000 students at the association’s member colleges, plus one additional university. About 150,000 participated in the online questionnaire.
The results were generally in line with past surveys on sexual assault and misconduct on college campuses — and confirmed that alcohol and drugs are important risk factors.
Lee might want to find his trusty calculator out and run the numbers. He will find that hundreds of sexual assaults occur each year at Purdue University — many of which, for obvious reasons, go unreported.
I have no idea if Lee is still a part of the IFB church movement. I hope not, but his comment reflects the thinking I have seen from countless IFB preachers and church members over the years. Such people will read the aforementioned South Bend Tribune story and what will they see? Why, alcohol and drugs played a big part in these sexual assaults. So what? Is that justification for rape and sexual assault? Or perhaps women will be blamed for dressing “immodestly” or putting themselves in compromising positions. In other words, these women were “asking” for it. Such thinking, of course, is vile and perverse, but defenders of the IFB church movement continue to make excuses for the sex crimes committed in the churches and institutions.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Here’s an email I received several years from a Michigan man by the name of Dave Victor:
When I look at your face, I see hurt. I see a person who has had a lot of disappointments. A lot of rejection. And this all created a lot of bitterness, rage, hatred, anger.
Don’t take this life so personally and seriously. This life is short…eternity is forever. How one handles disappointment, rejection, hurt, health problems, whatever, is the test of who we are.
You have a choice of becoming a bitter atheist, or saying, ok Lord, I don’t understand it, but I will trust You to help turn this trash around, from lemons into lemonade…even if it takes years and years. Patience, crying to Him, watching not the circumstances, but how He can help change our hearts and attitude by His grace.
Yes, I could be you. But it’s not worth throwing Jesus out when horrors even hit. Not worth getting all bent out of shape and hateful. Keep your eyes on Him…He’s worth it all. Too heavenly minded? You bet…it’s for eternity, forever and ever. It will be so worth it, so glorious!
There is a hell. Why have you chosen to go there? Not worth it…all that bitterness and desire for revenge. Let it go! Who cares? A right relationship with Jesus is ….EVERYTHING.
Victor, using some sort of remote viewing technique, purportedly looked into my eyes and discerned that I am “hurt.” Damn right, Davey boy. I AM hurt. I have fibromyalgia (widespread fatigue, pain), osteoarthritis (pain in spine, feet, neck, shoulders, hands, knees), gastroparesis (nausea, vomiting), peripheral neuropathy (nerve pain in feet/legs), and four herniated discs in my upper back that have left me in excruciating pain. Persistent, constant pain is part of my everyday life, I haven’t had a pain-free day in over a decade. So yes, I am “hurting.”
Victor isn’t interested in my physical suffering. He’s far more concerned about the “hurt” that only diviners such as he can see. When Victor looks into the eyes of the “real” Bruce Gerencser, he sees bitterness, rage, hatred, and anger. Never mind the fact that my wife, family, and counselor — people who actually have intimate personal contact with me — don’t see what Victor sees. Never mind the fact that I am someone who is quite honest about his emotions, and I am emotionally nothing like Victor describes in his email. Victor sees what others cannot see: that Bruce Gerencser is a psychologically damaged man who desperately needs J-e-s-u-s.
Surely Victor spent some time reading my story, right? Nope. Here’s what he read:
Is there anything in Victor’s email that would cause me to reconsider my decision to walk away from God/Jesus/ Christianity? Of course not. His email is yet another reminder of the fact that most Christian zealots who contact me aren’t the least bit interested in my story. This is why I don’t waste my time on them. I periodically post these emails because they provide reminders of what many of us have left behind. Thank Loki we are free!
Victor asks why I have chosen to go to Hell. I haven’t. Hell is what I left behind.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Earlier today Glen Odem, a realtor from Mississippi and a group leader for Reformers Unanimous (also called RU Recovery Ministries) — an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) addiction program — left the following comment on the post titled Cindy Schaap, Daughter of Jack Hyles, Divorces Convicted Felon Jack Schaap. Odem ignored the comment policy for this site, determined to put in a good word for Jesus regardless of my wishes. As you shall see, Odem took a passive-aggressive approach to making sure I heard the “truth.” Never mind the fact that Odem’s comment had nothing to do with the post he commented on. Absolutely nothing. I can only assume, then, that Odem’s comment was a drive-by evangelism effort.
Odem did read ten posts on this site, so I do give him credit for showing a bit of curiosity. Unfortunately, his comment shows that he learned absolutely nothing from (or chose to ignore) my autobiographical material.
My response to Odem’s comment is indented and italicized.
Mr Bruce truth is truth regardless of whether we believe it or not.
Yes, truth is truth regardless of whether we believe it or not. Facts and evidence matter. I suspect, however, that Odem thinks that truth = Bible; that words of the Bible are inspired, inerrant, and infallible, 100% unadulterated, pure big T T-R-U-T-H. And therein is the rub. How does Odem know the Bible is truth? What evidence does he have for his claim? Just because the Bible says something doesn’t make it so. If Odem wants me to accept his claim, then he is going to have to provide evidence for me to examine.
Saying the Bible is TRUTH is a faith claim. Either you believe this claim or you don’t. I, for one, reject this claim out of hand. I do not have the requisite faith necessary to believe virgins have babies, spit and dirt heals blindness, humans can teleport through walls, or dead people resurrect from the grave — to name a few of the fantastical claims found in the Bible. I assume Odem believes all of these things are TRUTH. All I ask is that he provide evidence for his truth claims. Don’t quote me Bible verses or baldly assert that the Bible is TRUTH whether I believe it or not. As someone who spent fifty years in the Christian church and twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches, I know the Bible inside and out. I know, not believe, but actually KNOW, that the claims Evangelicals make for the Bible cannot be intellectually or rationally sustained. I’ve done my homework.
What I do wonder is whether Odem has done his homework. Has he read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Bible? Ehrman is a New Testament scholar who teaches at the University of North Carolina and the author of numerous books on the Bible. If Odem has not read any of Ehrman’s books, I will gladly buy a copy and have it sent to him, free of charge. I have made this offer dozens of times over the years. Not one Evangelical has taken me up on this issue. Why is that?
Believing or not believing the truth only effects [sic] our lives and those we influence. Two plus two is four, whether we believe it or not. But not believing it can have a significant impact on our lives. Jesus walked on the shores of Galilee, he healed the sick and raised the dead. Those are facts, and us not believing them does not make them any less true. Jesus lived a sinless life, was crucified, buried in a borrowed tomb, and rose again the third day and whether we believe it or not doesn’t change it from being a reality.
As I mentioned above, Odem seems to not understand that asserting a claim doesn’t mean it is true. The Harry Potter books make all sorts of claims, as fantasy and science fiction books do. Should any of us accept the “truth” found in the Harry Potter books at face value? Of course not. For me to “believe” that Harry Potter can change things with the wave of his magic wand, I am going to want to see empirical evidence for this claim. I view the Bible the same way. It is a work of fiction, or, at best a historical novel. My wife, Polly, loves to read historical novels. Such books are filled with facts, yet the storylines are fictional. I can accept that Jesus was a flesh and blood human being who lived and died in Palestine 2,000 years ago. But if you expect me to believe the stories told about him, you are going to have to provide evidence that supports these stories being true. 2,000 years later, no evidence is forthcoming.
But not believing it can have a significant impact on your life in this world and in eternity to come.
Not believing the Bible has not affected my life in any meaningful way. In fact, it was believing the Bible was true that caused all sorts of problems for me. Now? I have no interest in the Bible whatsoever, outside of writing for this blog. My life is better in every way now that the Bible has no authority over me, no hold on my life.
Odem speaks of “eternity to come.” This is another one of those claims that Evangelicals make that is solely rooted in faith. I know of no evidence for the existence of an afterlife or the existence of Heaven/Hell. Let me say once again that just because the Bible says something doesn’t make it true.
You are probably a better man than I am morally. In fact, I’d say quite better because I know me!
Isn’t the only thing that matters how we live our lives? I try my best every day to be a decent, kind, thoughtful, compassionate person. Yet, because I don’t believe the same things as Odem, I am headed for eternal torture at the hands of his God. What kind of monster is this God that Odem worships and serves; a deity who values right beliefs over love, kindness, and good works? Even if this God is real, I wouldn’t worship him.
But there was a point in time when I realized I was lost and in sin. Not sin according to me or you or any other man but according to our Creator, and I accepted the payment that was made for my sins by Jesus when he shed his perfect blood for me. Now, that still doesn’t make me better than you or possibly anyone else for that matter, but it does make me justified in His sight, and that is what matters. Now I no longer enjoy those old ways and I do try to do better. But my relationship is not dependent upon my performance as a son it is dependent upon Him. However, my fellowship can be strained, but just like my relationship with my earthly parents cannot be undone my relationship with my heavenly Father is unchanging.
This is Odem’s personal testimony — an anecdotal story. And I am fine with that. Go with God. However, Odem doesn’t grant unbelievers the same respect. He’s not content to let us live our lives as we wish. Our lives are defective, in need of fixing. And only Hey-Zeus can fix us. I think I speak for most atheists, agnostics, pagans, and other unbelievers, when I say, we are fine just the way we are. We are not broken sinners in need of salvation. We are humans with the same wants, needs, and desires Odem has.
I cannot assume to know the condition of any man’s heart. So, whether or not this man is born again or not I do not know. I do know he was in sin, and it doesn’t appear he had remorse for it. But I have enough of my own troubles to keep me busy rather than condemning him. His actions speak for themselves.
Odem is being less than honest when he says that he doesn’t know the condition of my “heart” or whether I am born again. Isn’t his entire comment based on the assumption that I am NOT a Christian and neither are the readers of this blog; that we are sinners dead in trespasses and sins, headed for God’s judgment and eternal brimstone and hellfire after we die?
I am not sure what “sin” Odem thinks I was in — past or present. Regardless, he does say my actions speak for themselves. What actions? Telling my story? Trying to help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity? Trying to help and encourage people who have left Christianity? What, exactly, have I done that “speaks for itself”?
But I would say this to anyone reading this post: they’re bad people that work at WalMart but I’m not going to stop shopping there. If I were going to that church, I would not stop going to church just because of some bad people.
I didn’t stop going to church because of “bad people.” I walked away from Christianity because I no longer believed its central claims were true. It was truth that led me away from Christianity, not bad people.
So, if this rebirth has happened it cannot unhappen. Many people can say what they are it does not make them what they say. Only God searches the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Welp, I once was saved and now I am not. Odem can do with that what he will. I understand that he can’t square my story with this theology, but that’s not my problem. He does seem to doubt that I was a True Christian®. Again, all the extant evidence says that I was, indeed, a committed follower of Jesus. Does Odem have any evidence to the contrary? Of course not. He can’t fathom a Bible-believing preacher becoming an atheist. So the quickest way to dismiss my story is to cast doubt on my sincere profession of faith.
I pray this post is a blessing to someone, in Jesus’ name, amen.
I suspect Odem’s “prayer” will go unanswered; that the former Christians on the site will likely view his comment in a bad light.
What did Odem hope to accomplish by leaving this comment? I know I keep asking this question, but I wish people like Odem would honestly answer my inquiry.
In Reason’s Name, Amen
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Warning. Snark Ahead! Easily offended Evangelical preachers should NOT read this post. You have been warned.
Much like Evangelical pastor Mark Hodges, Pastor James Thompson thinks I am sick because God is judging me; that it is likely that I am still a Christian and God has afflicted me with fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, degenerative spine disease, herniated discs, peripheral neuropathy, and gastroparesis to get my attention — all because he wants me to love him again. Talk about a violent, jilted, pathetic ex-lover. And much like Hodges, the lazy Pastor Thompson made no effort to understand my story. Thompson, hailing from the Dallas area, read all of one post. To Thompson I say — quoting the book he believes is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Words of God — Answering before listening is both stupid and rude (Proverbs 18:13).
Thompson left the following comment on the post titled Evangelical Pastor Grant Hodges Says I am Sick Because God is Judging Me. My response is indented and italicized. All grammar and spelling are in the original. As you shall see, the good pastor is grammar challenged, but, hey, he knows God is going to roast me like a pig on a spit or refuse to let me play with the nice toys in Heaven.
I sure hope you did genuinely accept Christ years ago and have just fell [sic] into deep deception from the enemy.
Yes, I genuinely accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior at the age of fifteen. I’ve even been cicrumcised and baptized — three times — the baptism part, anyway. I can’t imagine getting circumised three times. I don’t have that much to work with. 🙂
I spent the next thirty-five years devotedly and unreservedly following Jesus. At the age of fifty, I left Christianity and I am now an agnostic atheist. The only deception was the lies I was told by my parents, pastors, and college professors, lies I spent twenty-five years repeating as a preacher. What I have found since divorcing Jesus is new life, the old life has passed away and all things have become new. All praise be to reason, skepticism, and science — the Holy Trinity.
If that be true then you have only loss [sic] rewards at the judgement instead of your soul.
What would I really lose? I still get to go to Heaven. I will still have a pain-free resurrected body. I will still get to eat at the Heaven location of Golden Corral. I am trying to figure out what it is you think I will lose by being a “saved” atheist? Maybe you will think I will lose rewards. What rewards? No pool pass? No preferred parking? No lawn service by Hey-Zeus? Or maybe my room in God’s Trump Hotel will only have a double bed instead of a California King?
If you were trusting in something else other than Christ then you were lost as a minister and still are as [sic] Anti-Christian agnostic “atheist”.
Well, I wasn’t, so we can dispense with that line of “logic.” I was every bit as much of a Christian as you are, probably more so. Would you like to compare theology and good works?
By the way, I am not anti-Christian. I am anti-Evangelical, anti-Fundamentalist, anti-IFB, anti-Asshole. Oh wait, I suppose that you think your peculiar brand of Christianity = True Christianity®?
Hell is real and is the eternal place for those who have chosen to reject Christ. Have you ever accidentally touched a hot stove or pot? I have! It hurts!
Hopefully that experience is at 5 seconds or less.
Imagine burning in torment for all eternity in your sins in a body that cannot die or be destroyed.
What evidence do you have for your claim that “Hell” is real? I would love to take a tour of Hell so I can know what my accommodations will be after I die. Is Hell listed on VRBO? Maybe I can look Hell up on the Internet and take a virtual tour.
What I am not going to do is take Pastor Thompson’s word for it. Hell is a religious construct, one used to elicit fear. People fearing judgment and Hell are more likely to seek out a remedy for their fear by going to the charlatans who sell the cure for the disease they have caused.
Like most Evangelical preachers, Thompson is into torture porn. In what other setting is threatening people with violence and death acceptable? Thompson has likely been trying to scare the Hell out of people for years. Sorry, that won’t work with me.
Thompson fails to understand that threatening me with Hell is a waste of time. Even Gawd, the Father, Hey-Zeus, and the Holey Ghost can’t reach me. I am an apostate, a reprobate. Not only don’t I fear Hell, I don’t fear Thompson’s God either. Both are myths, and I am not in the habit of fearing fairytale characters. I do, however, fear my wife. She wields a mean cast iron skillet.
Pastor Hodges is correct. You are likely sick because of the deception you have swallowed.
That I hope shows you were genuinely saved [sic] at Christ is giving you another chance to repent.
Because he could have just pulled the plug already and taken you.
What evidence do you have for your claim that I am “sick” because of the “deception I swallowed”? Most of my diagnoses predate my loss of faith. Snap, so much for that baseless assertion. Further, what evidence do you have for your claim that I am “deceived”? Perhaps you would like to discuss your beliefs, especially your claims about the Protestant Christian Bible, and then we can see who has been “deceived.” Time for you to throw some pearls down before swine. I think you will find I am quite conversant in all things Evangelical.
In Christ Rev James.
What’s with the Rev. bit? Is Thompson trying to make me see him as a man of Gawd or a great theologian? Is he trying to assert his superiority over me? Child, please. I hated title mongers when I was a Christian, and I hate them even more now. (For the record, I am a Rev. too — ordained three times. See, James, my dick is bigger than yours. Email me for pics.)
Thompson read all of one post on this site before backing up his truck and dumping a load of shit on my doorstep. He made no effort to understand my story before passing judgment, threatening me with Hell, and saying I am sick because God is judging me.
Thompson cannot see that his “In Christ” is speaking loud and clear; that he is a terrible representative of the lamb of God, the Prince of Peace, the man filled with the fruit of the Spirit (which Thompson is not). To James Thompson I say, I heard you loud and clear.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Another day, another email from one of God’s chosen ones informing me that they have plumbed the depths of my life and determined that I am either saved, but backslidden, never saved, or once saved, and now lost. Several years ago, Grant Hodges, retired pastor of Grace Baptist Church (now Grace Church) in Lebanon, Indiana, sent me an email. Hodges pastored Grace for thirty years. According to Hodges, I am still a Christian, and because of my wayward ways, I am under the judgment of God.
Here’s his email:
Text of Email:
Name: Grant Hodges
Email:
Comment: Sorry you’re sick.
I’ve known at least one other evangelical pastor who denied the faith. He really surprised me (a colleague). I’m a retired Baptist pastor and so know the challenges of the pastorate.
I also know as do you, that once a person accepts Christ, they belong to Christ. I figure you accepted Christ.
So you also know that lapsed Christians are promised a tough row to hoe in this life, although NOT in the next. 🙂 This explains your present status.
This question in your life is not one that concerns me. We will see who is right. And when I see you in heaven I will be changed, and won’t feel the slightest bit snarky about it. We will both rejoice.
God’s Best to you, Grant Hodges
Time: July 14, 2016 at 10:45 pm IP Address: 199.168.78.71 Sent by an unverified visitor to your site.
I always love it when people assume that I am sick because I am in some sort of backslidden state or in rebellion against God. Never mind the fact that my health problems started almost twenty years before I left the ministry and Christianity, As is often the case with Fundamentalists, Hodges spent very little time attempting to understand my story.
I have stopped trying to explain myself to the Hodges of the world. I know “why” I am sick (and dying) and “God” has nothing to do with it.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, an Evangelical woman named Jessie Castleberry, stopped by to leave five comments on the post titled Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor. This is the only post she read on this site. It is also clear that she either didn’t read or ignored the comment policy. Evidently, the only thing that mattered to Castleberry was putting a word in for her peculiar version of God.
What follows is the text of Castleberry’s comment. All spelling and grammar in the original.
Comment One
Bruce God don’t have to show up. He is every where and He has givin us his word to live by. I commend Bobby [a fellow Evangelical homophobe] for telling all these things that God has said about homosexuality and unclean living. God loves us each and everyone. He will open the gates of he’ll and all these that.defile themselves with this harlot into it. He’ll is very real and he is trying to get all that live this worldly life to except his word, the only real truth.
Comment Two
Dear sage I really real for you. Even though you spew out hatred for God and his people he still loves you and He commands all Christians to love you. I don’t know what or who has turned you from God so terribly bad but I pray before you leave this world that you will see Gods light and decide his love is so real. Us Christians are not perfect but we are forgiven be cause we have believed and we have asked God for forgiveness and professed.our sins to him. Like the their on the cross beside Jesus who ask Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom. Jesus told him today thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Comment Three
Sage, could you for just a moment please try and realize we only appeal to you as Jesus did to see his truth. He is the one that sends us to you thru his love to try and convince you that he loves you. We can do nothing of and in our selves. Only he can change you and only if you believe in him. He does love you so much. Jesus gave his on life for that you might believe and receive him. He would rather you believe and except him so you might live with him in eternity but he won’t force you to. It hurts him and us to see people deny him and go to he’ll for eternity.
Comment Four
Zoe, we don’t have to worry about that. We know his word and his word is truth.
Comment Five
Cyndi, you’re reacting the wrong way. You don’t have to throw away his tapes. That doesn’t show him love. You do have to pray for him though.
Castleberry defended and supported comments by two fellow Evangelicals, Bobby and Pamela.
Bobby said:
1 Cor 6:9,10 states, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Gal 5:19 says, “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Rev 21:8 says, “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur…”
Your issue [Bruce], as well as Kenny’s is not with Evangelicals, but rather with God! I am praying for the both of you right now.
Pamela added:
your comments cut me to the bone… how far people have strayed from God Almighty… all i can say is to be GAY is wrong.. to be proud of being an atheist , how low can one be .. it just hurts.. my prayers will always be for myself as a christian who sins daily but knows forgiveness is just a prayer away..and i strive to be better… my prayers are for the gays and atheists also…one day WE ALL WILL BOW before God… and answer for our sins..
There’s much I could say about Castleberry’s comments, but I want to focus on a comment left by Sage and Castleberry’s response.
Sage wrote:
All you have to do is go live your life and leave us to live ours. I don’t care if you are a christian and believe in god and you should not care who or what I am. Christians always want to change me, but all I want to do is coexist. Why is that so hard for you? Why does everyone have to live by your rules.
Is it really so hard to live your life and let others live theirs??
Sage has spent much of her life being judged, harassed, and ridiculed by Evangelicals. Her comment reflects her desire to just be left alone. You would think Evangelicals could respect Sage’s wish and leave her alone. How hard could that be? Kenny Bishop wishes the same for him and his husband. Why can’t Evangelicals do their thing and leave atheists, LGBTQ people, and non-Evangelicals to do theirs? Why are Evangelicals insistent on getting up in the grills of anyone and everyone different from them — earning them the label as one of the most hated religions in the United States?
Let’s take a look at Castleberry’s tone-deaf response to Sage:
Sage, could you for just a moment please try and realize we only appeal to you as Jesus did to see his truth. He is the one that sends us to you thru his love to try and convince you that he loves you. We can do nothing of and in our selves. Only he can change you and only if you believe in him. He does love you so much. Jesus gave his on life for that you might believe and receive him. He would rather you believe and except him so you might live with him in eternity but he won’t force you to. It hurts him and us to see people deny him and go to he’ll for eternity.
First, Castleberry is theologically and Biblically ignorant — as many Evangelicals are. Her theology is incoherent and reveals a lack of understanding about the nature and history of the Bible. How does she know what Jesus said about anything? All we know is what the anonymous authors of the gospels said Jesus said — maybe. We have no evidence that the words attributed to Jesus were uttered by him. Further, Jesus left no writings, and the red-letter words in the Bible don’t mention LBGTQ people one time. For all we know, Jesus himself was gay. After all, he traveled around Palestine with twelve men, most of whom were unmarried. Maybe J-zee and his merry band were a traveling group of LGBTQ magicians. Look at all the tricks they did: walking on water, “healing” blindness with spit and dirt, walking through walls, turning water into wine, making lame people walk, deaf people hear, and blind people see — just like Oral Roberts, Jesse Duplantis, and Leroy Jenkins would do centuries later.
Second, Castleberry thinks she is acting just like Jesus. Really? Where, in the Bible, do we find anything that says Jesus went on the Internet, searched for dirt on Southern Gospel singer Kenny Bishop or Ray Boltz (Evangelicals and the Gay Closet: Is Ray Boltz Still a Christian?), and told them to repent of their deviant, evil sexual perversion?
Third, Castleberry believes Jesus sent her to this site to share the “truth” with us. Bullshit. Castleberry was looking for dirt on Kenny Bishop (one of my favorite southern gospel singers). She consulted God (Google) and came upon this site. Unable to live and let live, Castleberry decided to expose her homophobia for all to see.
Fourth, Jesus is dead, so I doubt Sage’s sexual orientation hurts Jesus in any way. No, it’s Castleberry that is “hurt.” You see, Castleberry finds gay and lesbian sex repugnant. She thinks a man and a man or a woman and another woman or a non-binary person having sex with a man and a woman is icky. And because she thinks it’s “icky,” Castleberry uses her Bible-based moral code as a cudgel towards anyone who fucks differently from the way she does.
Castleberry concludes her comment with a threat: Sage, you are going to burn in Hell forever if you don’t repent of your sins and let Jesus feel you up. I’m sure Sage sarcastically thought, “wow, an Evangelical Christian threatening me with Hell. That’s a first.” I don’t know about Sage, but I am immune to such threats. Hell? Hell is being anywhere near Castleberry and her fellow homophobes. Why would I ever want to spend eternity in Heaven with the likes of her?
I hope Castleberry will reconsider her boorish behavior. I know, I know, not going to happen. But, sometimes it does. I once was a homophobe, and now I am not. What changed? I saw LGBTQ people as fellow humans with the same wants, needs, and desires I have. I came to see that LGBTQ people should have the same freedoms and equal protection under the law as I had. And most of all, I became friends, neighbors, and acquaintances with LGBTQ people. Castleberry sees LGBTQ people as prospects for Heaven, targets for her evangelistic efforts. Until she sees them as fellow citizens, worthy of her kindness, love, and respect, she will continue to be just another Asshole for Jesus.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Ansen (who read all of three posts):
Hi dear brother. My name is Ansen. I’m nothing important. I’ve been under spiritual attack by alot of evil in the world. I’ve been given a gift by God to see a small glimpse of spiritual things.
I was reading your blog and I was inspired [he read one of my posts on street preaching] until I read the part of you becoming an atheist.
I thought to myself that a man who pastored churches for 25 years gives all of that up for worldly pleasures. I thought this is insane.
You being a pastor for 25 years should have understood that we are at war with principalities and powers.
Dear brother. The Lord Jesus Christ is coming back soon.
I can’t impart the things I’ve seen to be given to you. I can’t physically let you see the things I can see because I don’t know how.
In any case. I wouldn’t want you to experience the pain that I have.
But I can tell you that Jesus is definitely real. There is indeed a devil that is trying to take us away from God.
I want you to do a spiritual test with yourself.
Ask yourself what would happen if you tried to believe in Jesus again?
Then try and attempt to believe in Jesus.
If you can’t bring yourself to believing in Jesus it’s because something Evil(The Antichrist) is trying to stop you.
Spend at least 5 minutes trying to believe in Jesus.
If you’ve found difficulty doing it. Then you need to keep doing it.
There is something trying to stop you Bruce.
Carolyn, my esteemed editor and friend, sent Ansen the following response:
Mr. Hatcher,
I write on behalf of Bruce Gerencser. I sometimes answer his emails when he is behind on them. That said . . .
Regarding your importance or lack thereof, it is your god who makes you feel unimportant, like a worm, like a sin-filled creature. Bruce is no longer having any of that.
I wonder how the evil in the world attacks you. I don’t think Bruce believes in the personification of evil. That is, people are evil, but there is no evil force outside of people that can attack other people. Bruce doesn’t believe in gods – not yours, not anyone else’s – so he has no belief in your “gift” or your “small glimpse of spiritual things”; especially where they involve Bruce himself.
Bruce did not give up his faith for “worldly pleasures.” Indeed, about the only “worldly pleasure” he indulges in is occasional strong spirits. He gave up his faith because he sought a church where the congregants served Jesus, and could find no such church after attending more than 100 churches of various denominations. Discouraged, he began to read the bible again (for the 5th or 6th time, at least) and saw the multiple gods of Genesis, the two separate creation stories, the fallacy of Adam and Eve being the first people on earth (where did Cain’s wife come from? Cain “builded a city” – who populated the city?). He saw the malignancy of a god who caused his people to destroy armies, then kill the men and take the women as their own. He saw the dastardliness of a god who caused men, women, innocent children and even unborn babies to be drowned in his flood. The logistics of Noah taking two of every living creature aboard a huge boat are insurmountable, and there is no physical historical evidence for such a great flood.
He continued into the new testament, and saw the conflicting narratives of the gospels regarding the birth of Jesus. He realized that he could no longer believe in a virgin birth, a man who walked on water, walked through walls, or who died and came back to life.
I am not sure who would be at war with “principalities and powers.” Bruce is not your dear brother.
The promise of the return of someone named Jesus has been passed on for more than 2,000 years. It will go on as an empty promise until such time as Christianity dies out.
Bruce has no belief in your dreams, visions, or hallucinations, so it does not matter that you cannot “impart the things” you’ve seen to be given to him.
Bruce has experienced far greater pain than have you. Bruce lives with fibromyalgia, raging osteoarthritis, gastroparesis, and peripheral neuropathy, the combination of which makes him hurt from the crown of his head to the bottom of his feet. He has no pain-free days, just manageable-pain days. Bruce would not want you or anyone else to experience the pain he has. And your pain is . . . what??
Bruce can no more believe in Jesus than he can believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, or any of the myriad other mythical creatures out there in the world. When you can show some hard, tangible evidence of the existence of a god, then Bruce might be willing to expend some effort examining the evidence to determine whether he believes the evidence is real. Only then would he consider belief in such a god. Until that time, Jesus is just a man who may or may not have lived a long time ago, but is not alive today and is not worthy of worship.
Bruce put himself through spiritual testing every day as he began to lose his faith. He did not want to lose his faith, but the more he examined, the more he realized he could not believe. There is no point in any such spiritual test at this point.
Now fuck off.
Carolyn Patrick, editor for Bruce Gerencser
Well said, Carolyn, well said. Except that “now fuck off” line. I would never say such a thing to a proselytizing Evangelical Christian. 🙂 Well . . . actually I would. You see, I have a statement on my contact page that specifically asks Evangelicals to NOT send me emails such as the one Ansen sent me. Much like Fake Dr. David Tee, Father John, and countless other Evangelical zealots, Ansen has no regard for what I want nor respect for me as a person. In his mind, all that matters is getting a word in for Jesus. That’s why I do not respond kindly to such people. Sometimes, a “fuck off” is warranted. Last week, after an onslaught of emails from the Fake Dr., I emailed him and said:
And I suggest you take a 12 inch dildo and shove it up your ass. I’m sure there’s one in your nightstand. Now fuck off you piece of shit.
After several more back and forths, I said:
I’m not being funny. You are a despicable human being. Fundamentalism has so rotted your mind that you are unable to be a decent person. You are a bully who loves to gaslight people. Not just my opinion either, asshole. Ask around. You will find that my opinion of you is held by many. You have spent years attacking people, getting banned at numerous sites, yet you accept no responsibility for your vile behavior.
You need professional help, David.
I always politely respond to Evangelicals who have sincere, thoughtful questions about my story or something I have written. However, when Evangelicals show no regard for me as a person and are only interested in advancing their agenda, I am going to let them know what I think about their boorish behavior. When necessary, I am quite happy to give proselytizing Evangelicals the Bruce Gerencser Treatment®.
— Bruce pauses for five minutes to try to [savingly] believe in Jesus —
Nope, it didn’t work . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Michael didn’t like the fact that I said he spent his days raging against atheism, nor did he like the fact that I said he was a whiner. Such touchy feelings Evangelicals have these days. I have read Michael’s blog for years. My words simply reflect how I view his writing. I could have also said he is hilarious (not in a good sense), ill-informed, and deliberately obtuse, but I wouldn’t want him to get the wrong impression about how I view his anti-atheist screeds. 🙂
What I find interesting is how Michael’s band of fellow anti-atheists responded to my post. What follows are some of the comments posted about me on Michael’s post. Enjoy!
Kevin:
It must be a trend among that brand of atheist to have no reading comprehension. And judging by the words he chooses to employ, such as “raging” and “whining”, then he is also employing the standard tactics of being dishonest and childish.
Just a typical anti-theistic rant that misses the point. Bruce does not distinguish himself from the rest of the juveniles.
SavedByGrace:
Given the fact that he doesn’t see what’s right in front of him and given that he’s already displaying the behavior we’ve come to expect from anti-theist activists, it should be no surprise that he resorts to the usual name calling tactics and doesn’t address the points you’ve made. How are they going to come across as innocent victims of the terrible judgmental Christians if they acknowledge that most aspects of the world today are indeed geared towards them?
nihilisttochristian:
Ah yes, the village atheist, who thinks that his own experiences living in rural America are somehow representative of the Western world as a whole, and/or who cannot get over negative church experiences from decades ago and still considers them representative of the entire Christian body.
natewinchester:
I see at the bottom of each of his posts:
Bruce Gerencser, 64, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 43 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
One wonders how he got through 6 kids and 13 grandkids without a better sense of humor. Part of me suspects he plays dumb for the “gotcha.”
There’s a reason I always treasured the truly honest & good-faith atheists. They were rarer than gold.
Kevin:
If he went from being a pastor to mocking Christians, it sounds like his churches probably sucked, because he does too.
I’ve changed my opinion on numerous things, but I don’t mock those who still hold my old opinion. Because I’m not a jackass, for one thing, but also because I understand where they are coming from even if I no longer agree. If anything I would feel sympathy, not contempt.
Bruce has nothing to offer anyone, based on his online persona.
SavedByGrace:
I’ve heard of this situation sometimes, Pastors who have left the ministry sometimes after many years and become anti-theists. I can’t tell what reasons Bruce left Christ, because I don’t know his heart and it could be for a myriad of reasons. In several of the ministries I watch, they’ve mentioned people leaving the church even as Pastors and aren’t malicious about them whatsoever. Some members have even witnessed to them so that Christ might possibly convict them and bring them back to repentance. They were met with replies of “I don’t need Christ to be happy. I’m financially successful now, I have a loving family. etc.” By his arguing though, he seems to be sensitive about atheism being criticized at all, somewhat like how Mehta balked at having to turn his anti-Christian vitriol down. Whether or not it’s too late for Bruce to be saved, I can’t know. But I continue to pray for him to repent, nonetheless. The lake of fire and sulfur is somewhere we should never want anyone to end up for the absence of time.
Kevin:
He seems to be one of those who suffered some sort of tragedy in his past and could not comprehend why God would allow such a thing. In another post he wants Christians to also lose their hope in order to lose their faith, since apparently losing their faith is his goal regardless of the pain he admits this will cause.
Worse men than Bruce have been called by God and answered that call. Perhaps his mockery is a defense against the pain he feels, as though refusing to admit God is real is easier than understanding why bad things happen under grace. God knows his heart and can work as he wills.
That said, I feel comfortable calling out his behavior for what it is.
Dhay:
Yesterday, Michael, a Christian (Evangelical?) blogger who spends his days raging against atheism…
There’s projection for you.
I see Michael posted ten posts in the month of December 2021, ten in November, eight in October, that’s twenty eight in three months; whereas Bruce Gerencser posted thirty four posts in the mere two weeks of 11 — 24 January 2022 inclusive: that is, Gerencser has posted more posts in a recent fortnight than Michael has posted in the most recent completed three months.
Indeed, Gerencser recently posted more posts — nine posts — on one single day (11 January 2022) than Michael posted in the whole of October.
That’s good reason to reckon Gerencser thoroughly irrational.
Gerencser’s flood of posts is a flood of raging posts; he’s an ex-Evangelical Christian blogger who genuinely does himself spend his days raging. The which he accuses Michael of.
There’s massive projection for you.
Dhay:
Bruce Gerencser seems to detest what he considers to be modern distortions of Jesus and his message. But I observe that theologian NT Wright disagrees with significant aspects of the modern image of Jesus (and Paul) — albeit without apparent detestation — so Gerencser’s in good company there.
I also see early posts, 2006 and 2008, which indicate Gerencser was socially and theologically intelligent. I’ve not looked at further early posts, or in more detail at recent posts; I see no reason to make doing so any sort of priority.
Kevin:
That post was mainly a complaint that people envision a Jesus who isn’t a modern left-wing activist, so in typical progressive fashion he presents the worst depiction of conservatives and uses it to attack both them and the non-leftist Jesus.
Perhaps I am not sympathetic enough to Bruce. I will reflect on that.
Dhay:
Kevin > Perhaps I am not sympathetic enough to Bruce. I will reflect on that.
You and I should avoid getting overly sympathetic, his current anti-Christian ranting is not socially and theologically intelligent.
Kevin:
his current anti-Christian ranting is not socially and theologically intelligent.
Not even a little intelligent, true. But it also seems he is one of those who got hurt, or someone close to him got hurt, and God’s “failure” to prevent it has made him angry not only at God but those who are still joyful in their faith. Hence how he wants all believers to begin demanding of God why he allows bad things to happen, so that they too can join him in the loss of all hope.
So he rejects God due to the inane, shallow “reasoning” of New Atheism – which frankly takes a lot of ignorance (which he doesn’t possess) and/or a lot of hatred to adopt – and he lashes out at those who still believe with juvenile contempt and scorn. His is not a position of intellectual, but emotion. If my analysis is correct, he is hurting, and hurt people do silly but regrettable things sometimes.
Of course, if my analysis is incorrect and he actually hopped onto the New Atheist bandwagon because he was somehow convinced by their ridiculous propaganda and catch phrases, then I gave him too much credit by far.
— end of comments
There ya go, boys, girls, and non-binary people. I have no idea who they are talking about. 🙂 This Bruce they are talking about is stupid, ignorant, irrational, lacking intelligence, socially unintelligent, theologically unintelligent, the village atheist, and a new atheist. This Bruce spends his days and nights raging against True Christianity®. This Bruce was a terrible pastor, someone who was “hurt” and is in emotional “pain.” I don’t know this Bruce, do you? 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
