If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Bruce Gerencser
After reading a handful of posts, Mike was ready to render judgment:
I pray that the God you preached about all those years will pierce your heart and bring you back to Him, as well as all the people you have influence over. After reading some on your website, I am afraid that Satan has tricked you, like so many, that you don’t need God.
Eternity is to long to be wrong. Heaven and Hell are real places, and we ALL will spend eternity in one or the other.
That’s all you can say? Reductionist bullshit told to me by hundreds and hundreds of Christians?
Do better, Mike. Think, listen, read, and learn. You don’t know as much as you think you do. I know how many posts you read (server logs don’t lie). Can you really say you made a good faith effort to read and understand my story? Or did you read just enough to pass judgment?
I may use your email as fodder for a blog post. I’ll send you the link if I do.
God bless.
Bruce Gerencser
Mike did not respond to me.
Mike ignores the fact that I am an atheist, so suggesting that I am being “tricked” by Satan is, to put it mildly, a joke. I don’t believe in the existence of the Christian God, nor do I believe in the existence of Satan. As a man on the short side of life (please see Giving In When It’s The Only Thing You Can Do), I have thought a good bit about death. As an atheist, I am confident that once I draw my last breath, my life is over. While I will live on in the minds of my family and friends, my cremated remains will be sprinkled by my loved ones on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.
As is often the case with Christian zealots, Mike passive-aggressively threatens me with Hell. According to Mike’s theological beliefs, Heaven and Hell are real places. People who have beliefs different from him will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire (Hell is a temporary holding cell, which God casts into the Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:14). Outside of the Bible, there’s no evidence for the existence of Heaven or Hell. In fact, there’s ample evidence that such places are fictional, tools used to reward and threaten people by churches and clerics. As an atheist, I do no fear going to Hell. And, I have no desire to go to Heaven. Why would I want to spend eternity with the Mikes and David Tees of the world? No thanks.
Mike believes that Satan has tricked me into believing that I don’t need God. Unlike Mike, I don’t need a psychological crutch to make it through the day. I can’t think of one aspect of my life where I “need” God. The only time I think about God is when I write for this blog. That’s it. I choose, instead, to focus on the present, life as it is.
Mike could have made a good faith effort to get to know me and understand my story. He could have asked me questions after reading my autobiographical posts. Instead, Mike went into preaching mode. Whether he had a pathological need to do so or felt “led” by the Holy Spirit, I do not know. Over the years, countless Evangelicals have taken a similar approach with me. If they were willing (and they are not) to take a bit of advice from a reprobate/apostate/atheist, I would tell them that this approach does not work; that if the goal is to engage in thoughtful discussion with me or learn more about my story, you might try a different approach.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
We have too many friends our age (in their 60s) who have children that are either not married or are not having children. These friends WANT grandchildren desperately, but their children aren’t interested. Why is this?
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God wants us to pass down biblical wisdom to our children and grandchildren. They aren’t going to get it from our culture. They will be told to be independent, travel, and make money instead of marry, bear children, and guide the home (1 Timothy 5:14). It seems that most young women are on birth control these days which is highly dangerous. It is even causing infertility. Women are most fertile in their late teens and twenties, then fertility goes dramatically down.
….
Women, you must teach your daughters the beauty of God’s ways. The greatest way you do this is by showing them. Show them that you love your husband, their father. Be an example to them of a joyful, godly mother. Sure, you are going to go through trials and sufferings. We all do. And sure, there will be many difficult days of mothering, but difficult isn’t bad. God’s path for us isn’t the easy, broad path. It’s the narrow path that leads to life!
Train your daughters to be homemakers from a young age. Teach them how to keep a home clean and tidy, to cook, bake, garden, can, iron, sew, and all that it takes to run a home. Let your husband work with your sons on becoming masculine men who will want to grow up to have families of their own. As your daughters grow older, go through my study guide with them so they can see clearly God’s will for them from His Word. Read the Bible to them from a young age. Have them memorize many verses. Pray with them daily. Take them church faithfully. Homeschool them. You be the one to raise and teach your own children so when they grow up, they will want a family of their own.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, I attended a high school football game in which the fans on both sides of the field stood with hands over hearts as the band played our post-9/11 national anthem — God Bless America. This largely Evangelical, conservative, Republican crowd views religion and patriotism as one and the same. In their minds, the United States is a uniquely chosen and blessed nation, a people whose God is the deity found within the pages of the Bible. I doubt that any of these uber-patriotic Christians thought, as they stood to praise Jesus, that what they were doing turned faith into a political football to be tossed to and fro, according to the whims of our political elites. From their perspective, the United States has always been God’s Country®. Other religions are grudgingly permitted, and even atheists are allowed the freedom to live as they please, but no one should ever doubt that there is one true God, and J-E-S-U-S is his name.
Once the crowd was finished masturbating to the American flag and our country’s phallic “greatness,” they settled in to watch two-plus hours of rock-em-sock-em, mano-a-mano organized violence. Christianity quickly faded into the distance as each side cheered their team, calling on them to pummel their opponent into submission. Players were encouraged to hit hard, incapacitating their enemy. So much was on the line: future tales of gridiron glory and a conference championship awaited the team with the most points at the end of the game. As the game wore on, one team got the upper hand and handily beat their rival into the ground. From both sides of the field, the people who just an hour or so ago were singing praises to their God were now screaming and cursing at the officials. One offended fan even went so far as to attack one of the officials because he was fat, leading my son to say, what does the official’s weight have to do with the call he made?
After the game, as I walked to my car, a man and his son passed by me. As they did, the father asked the son what he had been doing during the game (many children “attend” football games, but don’t actually watch the event). The boy replied we were playing smear the queer. I thought, oh my God, here we are in the 21st century, and a boyhood game is STILL called, with nary a thought, smear the QUEER. The boy’s father said nothing, giving tacit approval to his son’s disparaging use of the word “queer.” I suspect the boy has never bothered to consider that using the word QUEER (or any other pejorative word for LGBTQ people) might be offensive. But the father knew better, and yet he said nothing. (and I know some LGBTQ people call themselves queers. That doesn’t mean non-LGBTQ people should use the word in a pejorative way.)
I am not surprised by the things I observed. After all, I live in rural northwest Ohio, a land primarily inhabited by heterosexual white Republican Christians; a land that gives white preference its color; a monoculture proud of its ignorance and simplistic view of the world. While I thoroughly enjoy watching (and photographing) high school sporting events, I find the cultural trappings surrounding these contests to be disheartening. I know that most fellow locals have never ventured far from the farm fields, manufacturing facilities, and Christian churches of northwest Ohio. They are simply living out what they know, rarely, if ever, exposed to the complex, contradictory world that lies outside their borders. When those who live in a particular locality never come in contact with people different from them, and when the few who are different are dismissed and marginalized, it is no surprise that the locals think and behave the way they do. In their world, smearing a queer is just another childhood game; a game, however, that says much about place where it is played.
It goes without saying that not every local is as described above. I am deliberately painting with a broad brush. Over the past fifteen years, I have met a few liberal-minded locals who value pluralism and multiculturalism; people who know something about life beyond the flatlands and cornfields of rural northwest Ohio. Personally, I love the place I call home, even if I am not loved back. I appreciate the slowness of small-town life. I love living in a town where I never have to worry about being burglarized or murdered, and if I leave my car unlocked it will still be in the drive come morning. I don’t want readers to think that I hate where I live. I don’t. This is my home. My children and grandchildren live here, and it is for them I continue to confront local bigotry, racism, and religious extremism. I want them to have a better tomorrow.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The following is loosely based on a true story recounted to me by a Baptist pastor’s daughter.
Every church has a Deacon Bob — a Jesus-loving man who loves getting close and personal with children. Deacon Bob is a hugger. He loves intimate physical contact. Deacon Bob goes from person to person, handing out hugs and warm embraces. Everyone loves Deacon Bob. Knowing no boundaries, Deacon Bob embraces everyone. Deacon Bob focuses his “love” on children. Children love Deacon Bob. He is known for always having candy in his suit coat pocket. Sunday after Sunday, church children run to Deacon Bob, begging him to give them candy.
Every night, without fail, Deacon Bob and his wife — both lifelong members of Calvary Baptist Church — had their Bible devotions and prayed together. Afterward, Deacon Bob’s wife retired for the night. Deacon Bob told his wife that he would be to bed soon, but first, he needed to study his Sunday School lesson — Deacon Bob taught the fifth-grade girls. Soon his wife was fast asleep, and Deacon Bob sat down in the computer room to study his lesson — a place where he would commune with God undisturbed. Done with studies, Deacon Bob got up from his chair and locked the computer room door. Safe from interruption, Deacon Bob sat down, put on his headphones, and typed in Netscape the internet address for one of his favorite child pornography websites. Soon, Deacon Bob began pleasuring himself as he viewed children being sexually molested and violated. Once he was finished, Deacon Bob felt an overwhelming sense of guilt. Oh, Jesus, I am so sorry for what I have done. Please, Lord, forgive me. I claim the promises found in 1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Thank you, Lord for forgiving me of my sin. In Jesus’ name, I pray, Amen.
Night after night, year after year, Deacon Bob repeats this ritual — seeking self-gratification and then asking Jesus to forgive him. Deacon Bob started each morning with prayer, reading that day’s entry in Our Daily Bread, and a silent promise to God that he would never look at child porn again. Deacon Bob’s resolve lasted for a day or two, maybe a week, but soon, with deviant passions stirred by church children unaware of who and what he really is, Deacon Bob returned to the internet to seek out images and video sure to satisfy — for a moment — his perverse sexual desires.
Deacon Bob is a sexual predator hiding in plain sight. His church family thinks he’s wonderful — a lover of Jesus and children. He’s just like Jesus, Pastor Billy was heard saying. Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. (Luke 18:16) Deacon Bob just wants to minister to children, sharing with them his love for Jesus. We need more Deacon Bobs in this church! Clueless to Deacon Bob’s true nature and desires, Pastor Billy and the church “trust” Deacon Bob with their children. Sister Eatmore was overheard saying, Why Deacon Bob sure does love children. I would trust him to take my children anywhere.
The whole church thinks Deacon Bob is their very own Mister Rogers — everyone except Margie Buttermore, that is. Sister Buttermore told her husband one Sunday after church, That Deacon Bob sure is friendly with children. I am worried that he might be a sexual predator or a pedophile. Just today, I saw him hug Julia, and as he did, his hand slid down to her buttocks. I think he did that on purpose. Brother Buttermore replied, Oh, Margie, Deacon Bob is a fine man. He teaches Sunday School, sings in the choir, and just last year, he gave a large donation to the building fund. I would KNOW if Deacon Bob is a pervert. Men KNOW these kinds of things. Deacon Bob is NOT a pedophile. Sister Buttermore said nothing more, but she decided to pay attention to how Deacon Bob physically interacted with children.
Week after week, Sister Buttermore watched Deacon Bob, becoming more certain each week that he was not the kind of man everyone thought he was. One Sunday evening after church. Sister Buttermore decided to talk to Pastor Billy about her concerns. And just like her husband months before, Pastor Billy assured Sister Buttermore that Deacon Bob was a fine, upstanding Christian. Years ago, Pastor Billy told her, we had a man in our church who really was a pedophile. Everyone knew he was a child molester. I ran him off before he could hurt any of our children. Deacon Bob is nothing like this pervert.
Several years later, Deacon Bob took his fifth-grade girl’s Sunday School class out to eat — a reward for winning the Sunday School Perfect Attendance Award. Most families dropped their girls off at the local Chuck E. Cheese. Sister Eatmore had something come up at the last minute, so she called Deacon Bob and asked him if he would pick up Julia for the party. Deacon Bob told Sister Eatmore that he would be glad to pick Julia up and safely return her home after the party. Thanks! Deacon Bob. There’s no one I trust more with our children than you. Deacon Bob replied, no problem, Sister. I love our church’s children. I want to help every child come to know Jesus as their Savior.
Just as planned, Deacon Bob picked up eleven-year-old Julia and took her to the party. On the way home, Deacon Bob told Julia to slide over close to him. With nary a thought, groomed for this very moment, Julia complied. Deacon Bob had been hugging her for years. Everyone loved and trusted him.
Several miles away from Chuck E. Cheese, Deacon Bob took his right hand and put it on Julia’s thigh. Julia didn’t seem to mind. Julia, Deacon Bob said, you know Jesus loves you, and so do I. Julia replied, I know, I love both of you too!
Years later, Julia told her therapist what happened the night Deacon Bob drove her home from the party. Twenty years had passed, and Julia had never told anyone about what Deacon Bob had done to her. When Julia graduated from high school, she left home, moving three thousand miles away to San Diego. Julia would travel home to visit her parents from time to time, but she always planned her visits so she wouldn’t have to go to church. She couldn’t bear to go to church — any church.
One year, Julia returned home for her parent’s wedding anniversary. Calvary Baptist wanted to recognize the Eatmores for being faithfully married for fifty years, so they held a party for Brother and Sister Eatmore. Julia’s mom said, Julia, I hope you will come to church for our anniversary party. Please, honey! I know you don’t like going to Calvary, but won’t you do this for us?
Guilted into submission, Julia relented. As she entered the church, Julia looked off in the distance, and there was Deacon Bob — in his eighties now — hugging a young girl. Overcome with grief, guilt, and homicidal rage, Julia ran from the building and walked back to her parent’s home. Brother and Sister Eatmore finally came home and found Julia, tears streaming down her face, packing her bag. What’s wrong, Julia? Sister Eatmore asked. Julia told her mom what Deacon Bob had done to her when she was eleven. Oh honey,surely you must be mistaken. Deacon Bob loves Jesus, and he would never, ever do such a thing. And with that, Julia called Uber for a ride to the airport, never to return to her parent’s home.
Deacon Bob died several years later, leaving behind the testimony of a man who loved Jesus and children until the end.
Did your church have a Deacon Bob? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I listen to several atheist call-in shows and podcasts, particularly late at night. I take three medications at night to help with insomnia and pain, yet it still takes two to three hours for me to fall asleep. Typically, I watch TV shows/movies on my iPad Pro or listen to YouTube videos. Instead of saying bedtime prayers to the ceiling God, I fall asleep listening to videos/podcasts produced by the Atheist Community of Austin, Jimmy Snow, Matt Dillahunty, Rationality Rules, the Godless Engineer, and other atheist content producers.
Of late, I have become increasingly troubled by several atheist talk show hosts and podcasters who show a lack of understanding about Christianity and the Bible. If you are going to critique Evangelicalism and the Bible, then you should, at the very least, have a working knowledge and understanding of that which you are criticizing.
One call-in show host said that Jesus, during his lifetime, had LOTS of followers. This is patently false. According to Dr. Bart Ehrman’s book, The Triumph of Christianity, it is likely Jesus had around 20 followers in 30 CE. That group “exploded” to a few hundred people by 60 CE. In Acts 1:13-26, after the death of Jesus, 120 people gathered in the upper room for prayer, to listen to a sermon by Peter, and choose a replacement (Matthias) for Judas. One thing is certain: a relatively unknown, obscure itinerant Jewish preacher did NOT have lots of followers.
Another call-in show host said that Jesus started a new religion. He most certainly did not. Jesus was a Jew; his followers during his lifetime were observant Jews who worshiped at the Temple in Jerusalem. According to Acts 11:25-26:
Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Jesus was not a Christian. Jesus didn’t start First Baptist Church in Jerusalem. If we take Acts 11 as accurate history, the first time the followers of Jesus were called Christians happened 40 years after the life and death of Jesus.
And finally, another call-in talk show host, an ex-Jehovah’s Witness, objected when a caller said Christianity was a cult. The host vehemently disagreed, saying that her former religion was a cult, but garden variety Christian sects were NOT cults. This host, for some reason, thought it important that the word cult be reserved for just “bad” religions — her former religion. The host showed a real lack of awareness about other Christian sects, particularly Evangelical denominations. Fortunately, the show’s co-host gently corrected his fellow host’s incorrect assertions.
I have noticed that some atheist call-in talk show hosts have a hard time saying “I don’t know” or admitting that they lack understanding about a particular subject. Wanting to be viewed as authoritative, these hosts (at times) speak beyond that which they know. I am in no way suggesting that these hosts are deliberately saying untrue things. I suspect that the problem is a lack of knowledge. It’s important to know what we don’t know. I don’t pontificate on this blog about science or non-Christian religions. While I am not ignorant of some aspects of these things, I am not an authority. Want to talk about Evangelicalism or the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement? I’m your man. I know what I’m talking about. I try to stay in my lane, focusing my work on subjects for which I have expertise.
To these show hosts and podcasters, I say, do better, my fellow atheists, do better. Christians deserve to have their religion, in all its flavors, accurately represented. Atheists don’t like it when their beliefs are straw-manned, and neither do Christians. If you are going to critique Christianity in general and Evangelicalism in particular, please put in the work necessary to know what the hell you are talking about. If you are unwilling to do your homework, please turn off the microphone.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The divine superpower of omnipresence is totally made up. The God of the Bible is both all-knowing and all-powerful. So, does he need to be in your house to hear what you have to say? No. He already knows what you have said and you will say. Does ne need to be anywhere near anything to exert his power? Since he created the entire fricking universe from wherever he was, clearly he doesn’t need to be anywhere to exert his power. So, why do we attribute the power to this god of being everywhere all of the time, when it clearly is not needed? (It also undermines having to go someplace, like a church building, to have him hear you.) The reason is having a supernatural eavesdropper is a tool to control the behavior of church members, a human tool to control human behavior. Ask anyone who had lived in a closed society (East Germany, North Korea, the Hamptons, etc.). You never say anything you don’t want reported because you never know who is listening in. And, gosh, (gosh is a truncation of the exclamation “land of Goshen” a Biblically-cleansed exclamation) if this superpower was invented by human beings, I wonder about the rest of those powers.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I love wearing my rainbow suspenders. Sure, I’m an LGBTQ ally, but I just like wearing them. And they keep me from exposing my ass to the world. That said, wearing them during Pride Month brings out the glares. I take great joy, pleasure, and smug satisfaction in irritating the Heaven out of bigots, homophobes, transphobes, and religious Fundamentalists. No one has yet confronted me, but the glares are telling. And if someone stupidly, ignorantly, and foolishly confronts me? “I pity the fool, “ to quote Mr. T. I am an old, cranky curmudgeon. And I know words. Lots of words. You’ve been warned.
David Young, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist — married to my wife’s cousin — responded to my post with this:
You may be old, but you don’t have to be a cranky curmudgeon.
My friend Dale D. responded:
Yes, he does! Otherwise, he’s not Bruce!
Dale understands me. We’ve been friends for years. I appreciated his willingness to defend my curmudgeonly ways.
I posted two comments. Let me give you the second one first so you understand my use the word curmudgeon:
My definition of curmudgeon: cranky and opinionated — you know, in a good way. I’ve been blogging since 2007. I’ve been a prolific writer most of my life — both as a Christian pastor and as an atheist preacher. One thing people learn about me, shit on my doorstep or attack my family and I will likely respond. Turn the other cheek is overrated, often how loving, kind people are abused by assholes. I’ve always stood up for such people, and I’m more than willing to stand my own ground. Need someone to charge hell with an empty squirt gun? I’m your guy. According to those who know me, I’m a nice guy. I’ll leave it to them to say whether my curmudgeonly personality gets in the way of our friendships. I only have three friends, but who is counting?
And here’s my response to David Young:
Spend every day getting hateful, nasty emails, comments, and social media messages from Evangelicals, and you might be a cranky curmudgeon too. Walk in my shoes, David, and then we’ll talk. When Jesus-loving people have threatened to murder you, assault your wife/daughter, or tell you they hope you die a painful death, then we’ll talk. When people tell you that the incurable diseases that are killing you are deserved judgment from God, then we’ll talk. When you are the subject of sermons, blog posts, forum articles, and social media posts (often containing lies and distortions), then we’ll talk. You see, you have no idea where I’ve been, where I am, or what I’ve experienced. We haven’t seen each other, in what, a decade? The last time we’ve had a meaningful conversation? 2005? No offense, David, but you don’t know me (or my family). As a Christian, I had to endure abuse from church members and colleagues in the ministry. What would Jesus do, right? As an atheist, I no longer have to silently endure bad treatment by others. I am free to be who I am. And at this juncture in life, this means I’m a cranky curmudgeon. But, I can be a nice guy too. To quote the Bible, do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. I’m sure this is far more than you bargained for.
Lesson? Don’t tell an old cranky curmudgeon that he doesn’t have to be a cranky curmudgeon — as if there is something inherently wrong with him. My tombstone will one day say:
Sure, I will be in Hell with my fellow curmudgeons, but to quote Frank Sinatra, I will say, “I did it my way.” 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
“Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen) — an Evangelical zealot — is an expert in passive-aggressive writing. Of late, Tee has written five or so posts about me. I am starting to think that Tee has a man-crush on me — even though I am not gay or bisexual. Sorry, David, I know you want me, but it ain’t going to happen. 🙂 My three wives and 666 concubines keep me way too busy — wink, wink, if you know what I mean (just following in the footsteps of Solomon, the “wisest” man in the Bible).
Tee warns Christians — especially “immature” believers — not to read my writing lest I lead them astray. Evidently, I am more powerful than God. Cool, right? Tee views himself as a Bible expert. I suspect what irritates the heaven out of him is that I know as much as he does (if not more) about the Bible and Christianity. He knows that my writing can and does lead people to the light — of skepticism, reason, and intellectual inquiry. So, he rages against me, hoping that the few people who read his blog will be warded off from this site. Much like the gospel he preaches, his efforts are doomed to fail.
Tee has written two posts about me (and others) this week. The first post is titled Applying Scripture. Here’s an excerpt from this post:
We have done many articles recently using two non-Christian websites as a source for our topics. It is not wrong to do so and we may address more of the issues they raise n future articles.
What is important though, is how to respond to these people. One of the keys to approaching those that either do not believe or did believe and turned away from their salvation is that they do not accept God’s definitions, God’s thinking, nor anything to do with God.
That makes it very tough to deal with because they will avoid the truth as much as possible.
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God’s love tells everyone to forsake evil, wrong behavior, and so on. However, only God defines those categories and places different actions in each category. Star Trek and unbelievers do not have the authority or power to change that categorization.
All they can do is create something that continues to corrupt people and leaves them in their sin. They call it by other terms but it certainly is not love. Then there is Bruce and his views on abortion (We are tired of trying to type his last name).
….
It is impossible for Christians to talk to unbelievers and quitters because they have a low view of human life and think it is okay for women to murder or kill. They change the concept of an unborn child in hopes of relieving any guilt or regrets from disposing of human life for selfish reasons.
A woman has no right to kill anyone including an unborn child. Pro-abortionists do not have the power or authority to change the status of the unborn child. The pregnancy period is God’s choice and life starts at conception no matter what sinful term is used to describe it.
These are the situations where applying scripture correctly will help believers focus their energies on topics and issues that really matter. That application takes correct discernment.
First, you have to discern if it is really God leading you to interact with these people. Then if that is so, you need to discern which scriptures will help you in that interaction. Both steps are governed by your going to your prayer closet and praying.
You will need prayer to protect you from the subtle attacks of unbelievers and those that turn away. Then you need to ask for wisdom and understanding to tackle the interaction. Having the correct knowledge will help as well.
One of the biggest complaints atheists have had over the years is that believers do not know anything or they know very little. Getting the right knowledge is not wrong as your ability to discern will help you use that knowledge with God’s help in a manner that is effective and convincing.
Bruce tends to complain a lot when evangelicals make comments on his website about his desire to return to the faith and so on. Those comments are not very discerning as they ignore what Hebrews says in chapter 6:
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame
Sometimes it is best to ignore such people and just use what they write on their blogs as teaching tools to show believers what to watch out for. Remember that unbelievers will camouflage their deceptive thoughts with a lot of truth.
For example, in the quote above Bruce mentions that right to life people are only right to be born advocates. That is true in many circumstances. He wasn’t the first to say it, as Robin Williams said it before him and we may have beaten him to that fact as well.
But that fact does not mean we stop being anti-abortion supporters. We just have to broaden our methods and reach more people through a better strategy that only God can give. Also, the Bible does not say to focus on saving the unborn only. They are plenty of other innocent people who need our help.
That is where discernment comes in. Knowing which strategies to use and where to apply them will help make you a better success for God than ignoring God’s instructions in hopes of saving those who cannot be saved anymore.
When you get the correct discerning powers, you will notice that the unbeliever, etc. will think they have been enlightened, that they came to the truth, and that they alone can make determinations for everyone else.
….
No, we are not hypocrites because we are doing what God says to do. We do not listen to unbelievers because the Bible instructs us not to; we do not accept sinful positions because they are wrong and sinful; we do not have ultra-literal interpretations because we are doing what Christ said to do- know the truth.
Meerkat is upset because his ideas are being rejected and he has no say in the Christian way of life. But he rejects God and his ways so why should he expect to be accepted when he attacks the very belief of those he wants to accept his views?
It is neither rational nor logical and discernment lets you know that and that he is doing nothing but trying to ruin Christian lives and get them sent to hell. He may not realize that is what is taking place but Christians with discernment see it very clearly.
Bruce is the same way. He wants his views to be accepted but he will reject anything to do with God, the Bible, and Christianity. The two are hypocrites because they say one thing but in reality, act differently from what they say.
As you can see, Tee thinks of himself as a uber-mature Christian who is called by the Evangelical God to “protect” weak, immature followers of Jesus. Evidently, the Holy Spirit, who allegedly lives inside every Christian, is too busy playing golf to protect them from atheist bloggers. Christians should be glad that Mr. Tee is on the job, protecting them from an evil Meerkat and Santa Claus. (Please see Ben Berwick’s blog, Meerkat Musings.)
I love that Tee has finally admitted why he refuses to take the time to spell my last name correctly. He’s too lazy to do so. Tee can write thousands of words about me, but he can’t spell my last name correctly.
We all know what is going on inside the mind of an atheist. But it is nice to have them make confessions once in a while. B.G. (Bruce Gerencser) has written a little confession that clears up any confusion. His very first line tells us everything we need to know about atheists:
Atheists of every stripe agree that all the gods of human religions are false; that these gods do not have magical, supernatural powers; that they do not answer prayer, heal the sick, or raise the dead. These gods are made and shaped by human hands and do not, as many religionists suggest, live beyond the space-time continuum.
The only thing true about this comment is that it describes exactly what the atheist believes and thinks. The Bible says the fool has said there is no god and this is not something that has suddenly appeared in the 20th or 21st century.
It has been going on since almost time began. B. G. is saying nothing new and after all these millenniums you would think the atheist would come up with something new and better. They don’t because they have nothing to offer anyone.
The first line in that quote doesn’t prove anything except that the atheist is not using fact, physical evidence, reality, or even truth to make their decision. They also use no authority either. They have just decided that is the way it is and then attack anyone brave enough to admit that they cannot do life alone.
Their statement that there is no God is not fact just what they wish it was. They hope for this because they have been deceived and do not want to think about the ramifications of their decision.
They also ignore all the evidence proving that God does exist. They are not enlightened but simply deceived. They do not have the truth ut gave it up for whatever false promise they have been given by evil.
Then they think they are winning because they are being successful in turning people away from God. How sad that is because they are aiding evil in its hatred against God and destroying people’s eternity and lives.
They mock those who hold onto their faiths and that is a sign of weakness, as most people who can’t, mock those who can. They are too weak to take the step of faith and live the life that Christ wants them to live so they do whatever they can to harm those who can.
The atheist may not realize it as they are blind to what is going on in their lives and who is pulling their strings. These people are too afraid to deal with reality so they deny the existence of evil as well.
Those denials leave them in a quandary as they now have no source for good and bad behavior. They have no standards to measure themselves or others to see if they are on the right path. Instead, they failed so they deny everything that would remind them of their failure.
Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods. While there may be a God that has not yet revealed itself to us, such a possibility is improbable. Most atheists are comfortable living their lives with no thought of God or religion.
This is another sign of weakness. They do not want to draw a line in the sand so they leave a little opening there just in case. What they are really saying is that the God who has revealed himself to everyone is not real and they are waiting for a god that does what they want.
In other words, they want to be in charge of their god and have it do what they say. We know they are not going to bow down to that god who may reveal himself eventually because they refuse to do it for the one who has revealed himself.
Of course they are comfortable living their lives that way. They get to make their own rules, make judgments, lie, sin, and do whatever they want because they reject the rules of the God who has revealed himself.
The atheist wants to be master of their own lives even though they are ruled by evil and that goal will never happen.
Many Christians believe that Christianity gives them a one-up morally on the rest of the world.
It goes without saying that we are morally superior to the atheist. Not because we have created our own moral system like the atheist has. But because we are courageous enough to admit that we cannot live morally without Jesus.
We recognize our true state and seek to change our lives through belief in Jesus and following his ways. Some are more successful than others. Those that refuse to do this mock those who can and have.
We also recognize that we cannot create our own moral state. That our human capacity is not great enough to accomplish that goal. We also recognize that we do not have the authority to create great moral codes.
Even those Christians who have tried to create a system they believe is right falls short of what God has created already. We know we cannot do better than God and even if we tried, there would still be people who claim it is wrong, inferior, exclusive, racist, sexist, and so on, then reject that human-created option to design their own.
It takes a lot of courage to live the Christian life and one has to be brave to do it. However, atheists have shown that they have neither characteristic as they cowardly leave the faith or reject it and join the unbelieving world.
They must think there is safety in numbers but they are wrong. They are not safe, it is just an illusion and denying reality only proves they are weak and not brave.
A religion need not be true for people to benefit from it.
While this is a true statement, that does not mean that all religions are false or fake. False religions exist for the same reason atheists exist. To deceive people into thinking they have been enlightened and know the truth.
Without one true religion, no false belief would exist nor would atheists. There would be nothing to reject or avoid nor would there be anything that people would need to be deceived about.
The best way to understand religious belief in general and Christianity in particular is to view both from a sociological and economic perspective.
This is not a true statement for it demands that people ignore all the truths about Christianity and look solely at the faith from a deceived standpoint. The best way to understand Christianity is to examine it with all of its characteristics intact using an open mind.
Evangelicalism is numerically in decline.
This is not news to the Christian. Not only did Jesus tell us this would take place but he also said that people love darkness over light. B. G. and other atheists are not proclaiming some phenomenon here or that they have the truth and are winning the battle against evil.
Christianity is not evil. It is the best thing that could happen to this world. we have a better way to live and treat others, we are not deceived and living a lie and we have promises to hold onto to help us meet the challenges that come with life.
The criticism hurled at Christians by B. G. and other atheists are without merit as they look at things through blind and deceived eyes. They deny the existence of the enemy and the work it does to successfully destroy believers like they were destroyed.
They cannot see the reality of life because they live in a state of denial not a state of illumination. That is why Christ came to earth and why his followers continue to cast that light.
We are not losing, it is just that sinful men do not love God enough to change and be brave enough to live the Christian life. We do not take B. G. seriously as he has said that when he was a preacher and following God, he was quite successful.
Yet, he denied and denies the very evidence for God that took place in his own life. If he was as successful and on fire for God as he claims, then he should be ashamed. He let evil destroy him so that success could not continue.
That is not something to be proud of.
I could write a series of posts on Tee’s lies and half-truths about atheism in general, and the infamous B.G. in particular. I won’t do so, however, because I have covered Tee’s objections to atheism and B.G. before. I might change my mind on this if readers are interested in me doing so. What say ye, dear heathens and false god worshipers?
Thanks, Mr. Tee, for the comedy bit. Keep it up. You are an awesome evangelist for the one true religion — atheism.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
C.T. Townsend is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist evangelist and pastor. Townsend is the pastor of Victory Baptist Church in North Augusta, South Carolina. I have previously written about Townsend:
In the eyes of some of Townsend’s followers, he is a demigod, a man of God who must be defended at all costs. As I showed in my previous posts, some of Townsend’s devotees are vitriolic and hateful. Townsend likely knows about my writing. My posts show up first page in Google Search [when you search for “Evangelist CT Townsend”.] I suspect that this why my posts about him attract so much attention from loving, kind devotees of his. Townsend has made no effort to stop his attack dogs, so I assume he is okay with their defenses of his preacher virginity.
I don’t care who you are really, but you are dead wrong in you ideology of The preachers that preach the truth. The truth hurts and people run from the truth especially when it may take away their pleasures of sin.
Calvin, is Proverbs 18:13 in your Bible? If not, let me remind you of what God’s word says about your comment: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. You read all of one post on this site before you commented. You made no effort to learn anything about me, and as a result, you come off as ignorant, ill-informed, and downright hilarious. The least you could have done is read the ABOUT page or the WHY? page. Instead, you decided to fire away at someone you know nothing about.
I get it, you are butt-hurt over me saying negative things about the man, the myth, the legend, C.T. Townsend. You think Townsend is a God-called, Holy Ghost anointed man of God, a foot-stomping, Devil-chasing, hellfire-and-brimstone truth-teller. You love the fact that Townsend beats people over the head with the sin stick. You enjoy the abuse, having been taught that such treatment is God-ordained and good for you. “I am beating you because I love you, says the abusive parent to their child. Townsend is the parent in this story.
You Mr Bruce And folks like you are why people will not ever know the truth and the good news….
You are unaware that I was in the Christian church for fifty years, attended an IFB Bible college, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. All told, I preached over 4,000 sermons. I know almost everything one can know about Evangelical “truth” and the “good news” (Christian gospel). Would you like to quiz me on my knowledge of these things?
Now that I am on the other side of the Christian-atheist divide, I continue to preach “truth,” albeit a truth rooted in reason, skepticism, humanism, and intellectual inquiry. I challenge you to step outside of what you think you know and entertain the thought that you might be wrong. For example, I assume you believe the Bible is inspired, inerrant, and infallible. Are you sure the Bible is what you and C.T. Townsend claim it is? I encourage you to check out books written by Dr. Bart Ehrman, a New Testament scholar and professor at the University of North Carolina. You can find a list of his books here. If you are a seeker of “truth,” as you say, you will find Ehrman’s books enlightening and informative.
I wish you well in living your “it’s ok world” and follow TV preachers such as Joel ( smiley ) Osteen and lead people to believe everyone is going to heaven with no repercussions …..
I am not sure what you mean by an “it’s okay world.” I assume you mean a world where certain human behaviors deemed sinful by you and Townsend are considered “okay.” I suspect you are upset over abortion, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ rights, Pride Month — and all the other culture war hot button issues that Evangelicals find offensive.
I support equal rights and dignity for all, Calvin, even you. Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the private sexual lives of others. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms is no one’s business — including yours. Why are Evangelicals so vexed by the behavior of the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world? Especially since we know God’s chosen ones live lives quite similar to those of the heathens they condemn. Countless “great men of God” have been exposed as fornicators, adulterers, and child molesters. (Please see the Black Collar Crime Series.) These men, to the man, were preachers of “truth” and the “good news.” Please explain this fact to me, Calvin.
I busted a gut, as did my godless ex-preacher’s wife, when you suggested I was a follower of Joel Osteen. I have never been a fan of Osteen. I preached against him back in the day, and today I view him as a modern-day Elmer Gantry — a smiling, smooth-talking con man.
You seem to be really upset over too many people getting into Heaven. Can’t have that right? If everyone goes to Heaven after they die, that means your beliefs and salvation experience didn’t matter; that you weren’t special, after all. You need there to be a Hell to justify your harmful beliefs and practices. If there’s no Hell, why live a holy life, right? If there’s no Hell, you might as well get drunk, watch porn, have sex with your neighbor (man or woman), and follow your heart’s every desire. Is the threat of Hell the only reason you treat others with respect (except for Evangelical-preachers-turned-atheists, it seems), love your neighbors, love your family, and generally treat others kindly? In other words, you are only a good person because God threatened you with judgment and Hell if you don’t worship him and follow his commands (no matter how harmful and silly they are).
As an atheist and a humanist, I live the way I do because I desire what’s best for myself and others. I am motivated by love and kindness, no God needed. No Heaven, no Hell, just this life, Calvin. I try to be a good person because I want a better today, tomorrow, and future. I have six children and thirteen grandchildren. I have been married for almost forty-three years — my family matters to me. I want them to have safe, prosperous, and happy lives. Again, no God needed.
You are Sad..I will pray for you and those that are lost and think like you.
I assume you are using the word “sad” in a colloquial sense: worthless, a piece of shit, disappointing, a joke. Had you bothered to read my autobiographical writing, you would have learned I indeed have reasons to be “sad.” I have battled depression most of my adult life — both with and after Jesus. I have gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis. I live with unrelenting pain, and must use a cane or wheelchair to get around. I have plenty of reasons to feel “sad.” Not that you give a shit about my suffering, Calvin. All that matters to you is defending C.T. Townsend’s honor. Or maybe what you meant by the word sad is “small ass dick” — though I am not certain how you would know the size of my penis. Having you been spying on me?
I was a born-again Christian for almost fifty years, Calvin. I assume you believe in once-saved-always-saved. If so, how dare you say that I am “lost.” According to your theology, I am still a Christian, and there’s literally nothing I can say, write, or do to lose my salvation. If you object, are you saying that salvation is dependent, not on Jesus, but right beliefs? Even here, I had the right beliefs for five decades. Does one lose their salvation when they stop believing the “right” things?
Please do pray for me. You need the practice.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Atheists of every stripe agree that all the gods of human religions are false; that these gods do not have magical, supernatural powers; that they do not answer prayer, heal the sick, or raise the dead. These gods are made and shaped by human hands and do not, as many religionists suggest, live beyond the space-time continuum.
Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods. While there may be a God that has not yet revealed itself to us, such a possibility is improbable. Most atheists are comfortable living their lives with no thought of God or religion. Living such a life perplexes religious people, particularly Evangelical Christians. Unable to rationalize why anyone would ever reject the wonderful love and grace of Jesus, some Evangelicals make inflammatory, false statements about atheists: atheists are immoral, atheists secretly desire to commit sexual sin, atheists hate God, atheists are servants of Satan (in whom atheists also do not believe), to name a few. While it is certainly true that atheists can do bad things, I know of no study that concludes that atheists act better or worse than Evangelicals. People are people, and humans can do awful things, regardless of what they believe about the existence of God.
Many Christians believe that Christianity gives them a one-up morally on the rest of the world. According to their core beliefs, Evangelicals are saved and sanctified and have the Holy Spirit living inside them. Not only that, but God has given to them a divine road map for life — the Bible. Evangelicals, then, SHOULD be morally superior to the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. That they aren’t reveals that many Christians don’t practice what they preach.
A religion need not be true for people to benefit from it. I would be the first to admit that millions of Americans find great value in religious beliefs and practices. While it could be argued that — for Christianity in particular — removing God’s judgment and fear of Hell from the equation would empty Christian churches overnight, many religions do not have such beliefs. Yet, millions of people devote themselves to their teachings and practices. I am more inclined to believe these days, after fourteen years of interacting with progressive and liberal Christians, that people can intellectually abandon (or compartmentalize) many of the teachings of Christianity, yet hang on to a spiritualized form of Christianity that focuses on a cosmic Christ and doing good works. This brand of Christianity bears little resemblance to historic Christianity, yet it “works” for millions of people. Why is this?
The best way to understand religious belief in general and Christianity in particular is to view both from a sociological and economic perspective. Strip away all the dogma, and what’s left? A group of people joined together with common wants, needs, and desires. Years ago, Polly and I visited the Episcopal church in Defiance, Ohio. One member came up to us before the service and let us know that the church didn’t care what we believed. Coming from an Evangelical and Baptist background, we found such a notion shocking. Beliefs matter! Right? In Evangelical churches, beliefs matter, but outside of Evangelicalism, thousands of churches are indifferent to the internecine wars fought over doctrine. These churches just want to love God, love others, be happy, and do good works. For them, church is a social or family gathering, a place where people are accepted as they are.
Humans are social animals, so it shouldn’t surprise anyone that one of the biggest draws for religious groups is the social connectivity they offer to attendees. From this perspective, churches aren’t any different from humanist or atheist groups, nor are they any different from clubs such as the Lions Club, Kiwanis Club, Moose Lodge, Amvets, VFW, Facebook, or any of the political parties.
We humans tend to gather together based on shared beliefs, practices, and ideals. We enjoy hanging out with like-minded people. When we view religions from this perspective, it becomes easy to see why most Americans are church members or part of a religious group. When we throw in the fact that religion gives people a moral framework to live by and answers the two big questions of life: what is my purpose and is there life after death? — it is not surprising that religion continues to flourish.
One of the weaknesses of atheism is that it doesn’t provide social connections (nor is it meant to). One of the things that former Christians miss is that sense of belonging to something bigger than themselves. Former believers also miss the communal fellowship found in churches. More than a few former Evangelicals have written me expressing how lonely they felt once they became unbelievers. While there are atheist and humanist groups that provide social connectivity, for the most part, particularly for people who don’t live on the east/west coast or in a major city, atheists and humanists are on their own.
Let me conclude this post by looking at religion from an economic perspective. To properly understand why people are members of a particular religion/church, we must do a cost-benefit analysis. Being a part of a religion/church costs something. This is what I call the price of admission. One of the hardest things to get Evangelicals to admit is that to become a Christian/church member requires some sort of payment, be it a denial of self, a repudiation of certain behaviors, financial contributions, or as pastors are fond of saying: God wants you to give your time, talent, and money.
People attend church Sunday after Sunday, oblivious to the fact that every time they walk through the doors, a membership fee is required of them. It’s only when congregants become unhappy or disgruntled that they do a cost-benefit analysis. What am I getting out of this? they ask. They begin to wonder if the price of admission is worth it; are they getting more in return than what it costs? If unhappy Evangelicals conclude that they no longer receive what they should for their payment, they begin a process called “church shopping.” Feeling that their needs are not being met or they aren’t being “fed,” Christians visit other churches hoping to find a congregation that will better suit their needs. In other words, they are looking for a religion/church where the benefits outweigh the costs.
Evangelicalism is numerically in decline. The reasons for this are many: exclusionary practices, right-wing politics, support for Donald Trump, anti-abortion rhetoric, Puritanical sexuality, and anti-LGBTQ beliefs, to name a few. In particular, Evangelical churches are hemorrhaging younger adults, losing the very people who are supposed to be the future of Evangelicalism. These younger adults have decided that the cost of being Evangelical church members outweighs the benefits. And so they leave, swelling the ranks of Americans who are indifferent towards organized religion — the NONES.
As the United States becomes more secular and less religious, religious leaders and pastors think that the solution to this seismic change is to double down on their particular beliefs and practices or develop programs that will attract unbelievers or help retain church members. These approaches have failed spectacularly, and until an honest accounting is given as to why people stay or leave, sects and churches will continue to see membership (and financial) loss. Until sects admit that their church planting efforts do little to “reach the lost,” but, for the most part, just cannibalize already established churches, they shouldn’t be surprised when new members gained at one point leave when the latest, greatest church with the most awesome pastor ever comes to town. Christians are no different from anyone else. They seek that which will give them the greatest benefit for the least cost, and as long as the benefits outweigh the costs, their asses will remain firmly ensconced in the pews. But when the equation flips and costs outweigh benefits, LOOK OUT!
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I take great joy, pleasure, and smug satisfaction in irritating the Heaven out of bigots, homophobes, transphobes, and religious Fundamentalists. No one has yet confronted me, but the glares are telling. And if someone stupidly, ignorantly, and foolishly confronts me? “I pity the fool, “ to quote Mr. T. I am an old, cranky curmudgeon. And I know words. Lots of words. You’ve been warned. 
