JM Ballister, an Evangelical Christian who either deleted his email account or blocked me (coward), sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized.
Judas betrayed Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of silver.
Ballister begins his missive by telling me that Judas, a disciple of Christ, betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.
Judas is the betrayer of Jesus — worse than Hitler, in the minds of Evangelicals. I wonder if Ballister and his fellow Christians have bothered to look at the contradictions in the Biblical text on how/where Judas killed himself and what, exactly, the thirty pieces of silver were used for? Contradictions abound. So why should we trust anything the Bible says about Judas — or anything else, for that matter? If an inerrant book has one error, it is no longer inerrant.
The Bible calls Judas the “son of perdition.” Judas didn’t “choose” to betray Jesus. God chose him from before the foundation of the world to be the man who would betray the Son of God. Judas never had a chance to be saved. In fact, he couldn’t be saved. It would have been better if he had never been born. You see, Ballister forgets that I have actually read the Bible numerous times; that I spent thousands and thousands of hours studying the Word of God. I KNOW the story of Judas.
What did you and every other “former Christian” betray him for?
I can’t speak for other atheists, but I know exactly what I “betrayed” Jesus for: reason, skepticism, rationalism, science, freedom, and sleeping in on Sundays.
There is no such thing as a Christian “turned atheist”.
Memo to Evangelicals: just because you say something doesn’t make it so. Ballister denies what is right in front of him: an increasing number of devout Evangelical Christians are leaving the church and embracing atheism, agnosticism, Christian liberalism, or numbering themselves with those who are indifferent towards organized religion. We exist, and no amount of posturing and denial will change this fact.
Sadly they were never born again spiritually.
Ballister has a theological dilemma on his hands. He sees droves of committed followers of Jesus Christ exiting the church stage left — Christ-loving, sanctified, Holy Spirit-filled people — and he is befuddled by their departures. How can these things be? True Christian® Ballister says to himself. Unable to fit these people into his once-saved-always-saved theological box, Ballister concludes these Judases must never have been saved. Using the No True Scotsman Fallacy, Ballister dismisses out of hand millions of former Christians, labeling them liars and deceivers.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. Think, for a moment, about how many Christians I came in contact with. Thousands, including Evangelicals pastors, professors, evangelists, and missionaries. Some of these clerics were personal friends. Yet, not one of them EVER said that they thought I was unsaved. Not one. Either I was a master deceiver, tricking thousands of people into believing I was a God-called, born-again preacher of the gospel, or Ballister is full of shit. My money is on the latter.
Just like Judas.
Here’s the problem with Ballister’s Judas illustration: Judas was pre-ordained by God to betray Jesus. Therefore, Judas could not be saved. He was a reprobate from the beginning. Thus, if Evangelicals-turned-atheists are Judases, it is impossible for us to be saved. Thus, the blame for our unbelief rests on God — he made us this way. God chose to withhold his grace from us. Why? Who knows, but Ballister is blaming the wrong people. Evangelicals-turned-atheists are heathens today because, from before the foundation of the world, God determined they would be atheists. Perhaps Ballister should be emailing Jesus, and not me. Oh wait, Jesus is dead or has a Juno account.
Jesus loves you he never stopped and is waiting for you and many others here to come to him in true salvation
What a pathetic God Ballister serves. Jesus lurks in the shadows, helpless to save atheists and agnostics unless we come running to him. He could call out to us, but he says nothing. He could come running to us and miraculously save us from the wrath to come, but he has no legs. Everything an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God should be able to do, Jesus is helpless to do. How can it be said that Jesus loves us and has a wonderful plan for our lives, yet he either cannot or refuses to use his magical powers to bring us to saving faith? Instead, Jesus sends Christian Assholes like JM Ballister. Do better, Jesus, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
There was once a Catholic priest with an inquiring mind. Perhaps not surprisingly, he was a Jesuit. He also believed that Christian teachings are just part of the answer to the question of what we came from and why — and where we could go. Science is another piece of that puzzle, and it could be joined with faith in philosophy, classical and current. Perhaps not surprisingly, he was French.
The Church authorities weren’t always pleased with his work and, while his books weren’t placed on the Index, some weren’t published during his lifetime. In the meantime, though, the prelates, in France and the Vatican, did whatever they could to detour his scholarly and scientific work. (Perhaps it had something to do with his use of the “E word” to describe human development, intellectually and spiritually as well as physically.) So, he went to China, where he joined a scientific expedition that included a fellow Jesuit.
This French priest would have a hand in what was considered one of the most important scientific discoveries of the time: Peking Man, the oldest set of remains that were recognizably human found up to that time. Among other things, it indicated that the human race was about a quarter of a million years older than previously thought.
During the last three decades of his life, he would return to France only for visits with family and friends. He devoted his time to research, which took him to Africa and the United States as well as China.
So, what got me thinking about Pierre Teilhard de Chardin? The discovery of remains of Native Canadian children buried on the grounds of Catholic boarding schools funded by the government — and the priest sex-abuse scandals.
I’ll admit that it’s difficult for me not to think about the latter when I hear about the Roman Catholic Church: I am one of many who suffered and survived that terrible history. Although thousands of former altar boys and others who grew up in the Church have come forward during the past few years, we are still only a very small minority of those who endured exploitation by those who were seen as God’s proxies: Many, many more didn’t live to tell their stories.
Nor did those Native children who, although they died far too young, endured more and greater indignities than most people. Those kids were taken away from their families and communities, and the schools’ curricula were aimed to, among other things, deracinate them: Their language, customs, spiritual beliefs, and everything else that formed their identities were taken from them. In doing so, the schools made the young people dependent on a church and culture that never would treat them as equals: In many Native cultures, teachings secular as well as spiritual have, as a purpose, making young people able to live off, and in harmony with, the Earth. But, even in its most benevolent forms, Christianity teaches the exact opposite: that humans have dominion over the mountains, rivers, seas, and the flora and fauna that grow, roam, swim, and fly in them.
I have read many reports about the discovery of those boarding school burial grounds. I also made what some would consider a mistake: I read comments that readers left in response. Some condemned the Canadian government and the Church. A few had ideas about what could or should be done. Then there were those who believed the reputation of the Church was being unfairly besmirched. One commenter wondered, “Why do they have to dig up the past?”
I wonder whether the person who made that comment consciously chose that phrase: “Dig up.” I saw it again on the Facebook page for alumni of my old Catholic school. They heard about the priest who abused me and, probably, other kids — and another priest (whom I knew) who took advantage of other kids. Some said, in effect, that those of us who told our stories were lying, which didn’t surprise me. They didn’t want their rosy memories of those “simpler times” beclouded by dark intrusions. In that sense, they were like another alumnus who asked the same question as the commenter on the story about boarding schools.
“Why do they have to dig up the past?” Church officials probably asked the same question about Pere Teilhard de Chardin and his fellow researchers. And, like some of my old classmates and people who heard the news about the boarding schools, they are doing what they can to deny what “digging” has uncovered — and to vilify us for daring to tell, not only our own stories, but those who didn’t live to tell theirs, whether they died twenty or two hundred years or millennia ago.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Nancy Campbell, a Fundamentalist Christian, warned women today about the “sin” of showing cleavage in church. That’s right, with everything that is going on in the world, Campbell is worried about cleavage.
Isaiah 61:10 says: “I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God, for He hath CLOTHED me with the GARMENTS of salvation, he hath COVERED me with the ROBE of righteousness.” When we accept the salvation God gives to us, He washes away our sins, covers us with the precious blood of Jesus, and clothes us with a robe of righteousness. It’s not our righteousness for we have none of our own, but it’s His righteousness.
This is something that happens to us spiritually. However, everything that happens in the inward man should be revealed in the outward man. Our physical body emanates what goes on in the “hidden man of the heart.” I believe that if we are truly covered with a robe of righteousness inwardly, we will also reveal this work of righteousness within us by covering our physical bodies.
A robe is not a scanty dress; it covers the body. It doesn’t have to cover head to foot, but at least a robe usually covers the top to below the knee. I grieve as I observe women who confess they are Christians and yet blatantly display cleavage, some a little, some as much as they can! It has become so normal in the Christians church that some young Christians think it is standard clothing! Why would women want to take that which is sacred to the bedroom out into the public market place? And why would husbands. who are the covering of their wives, allow them to leave their home with so much flesh showing? Why do they want the world to see what belongs to them alone (Proverbs 5:15-19).
First, Campbell rips Isaiah 61:10 out if its context and uses the verse to prove her anti-cleavage point. As Campbell aptly shows, the Bible can be used to prove anything.
Second, Campbell believes women should cover their bodies from their necks to below their knees. Why, if Evangelical women don’t do this, horn-dog preachers, deacons, and other church males will be tempted to lust. Think about what she is saying. Showing ANY cleavage is a sin. The slightest glimpse of a woman’s breasts in church will lead hapless, weak, pathetic men astray. As always, women are to blame when men can’t keep their minds out of the gutter.
I call on women to protest Campbell’s anti-cleavagery. 🙂 Proudly show your cleavage. Seriously, Campell’s and Lori Alexander’s obsession with women’s breasts is silly and absurd. Personally, I am a big fan of cleavage. That said, I am not worried that I will want to sexually have my way with women who show theirs. For fuck’s sake, grow up.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The post VanZee references here is the most widely read and commented post on this site, Why I Hate Jesus. It is also the most misunderstood article on this site.
I am just going to say it plain, this post is full of logical fallacies. Look into Introductory and Intermediate logic by Bill Nance. It will help you sort your thoughts out. If you go through the book I can help you translate what you said into its propositions and show you were the fallacy lies.
VanZee thinks I am illogical; that if I read several books on logic (which I have) that I will then think correctly. And then what? Coming running back to Jesus and Christianity? VanZee must have missed that I grew up in the Christian church (50 years, longer than she has been alive), attended an Evangelical college, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. She must have missed where I talked about my voracious reading habit as a pastor. Of course she did. VanZee read all of two posts before rendering judgment.
Let me quote the Bible. Let it speak plainly to VanZee: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
I have a rudimentary understanding of logic and philosophy. That said, I don’t engage in arguments or debates on these subjects. Doing so is a colossal waste of time — for me, anyway. I choose, instead, to tell my story and provide critiques of Evangelicalism and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement.
The aforementioned post is not a treatise on logic or philosophy. It is, in fact, a political and polemical piece. How could VanZee (and countless other Evangelicals who have objected to the article) not understand this? The graphic of the AMERICAN JESUS at the top of the page is a dead giveaway. Try harder, Evangelicals, try harder.
If VanZee would like to discuss the nature and history of the Bible or Christian theology, I would be glad to do so. Then we can see who is “illogical.” Let’s have a cage match between the Evangelical-turned-atheist and the Holy Spirit-filled Evangelical.
I’m sorry for whatever happened to you. I don’t have time to read your story now, but I can see you were hurt and you are angry… yet you seem to be longing for God and want to get saved.
VanZee couldn’t be bothered to read my story, yet she feels she knows enough to make sweeping, ignorant, false judgments about my life. See Proverbs 18:13 above.
VanZee says she can “see” that I was hurt and that I am angry, and most astoundingly, that I am longing for God and want to get saved — none of which is true. But, VanZee knows better. Evangelicals think they have God-given magical senses by which they can see inside of people and discern what it is they really believe and feel. I have no answer for such nonsense. None. All I can say to VanZee is this: read my damn story and then we will talk. Read the ABOUT page. Read the posts on the WHY? page. Read my autobiographical work. Then, and only then, are you in a position to intelligently talk with me about why I left Christianity and became an atheist. Until then, you are ignorant and uninformed.
I will pray for you. I hope to hear from you again.
Ah yes, the obligatory “I will pray for you.” Thousands of Evangelicals over the years have told me that they are praying for me. Yet, I remain an unrepentant apostate. Why, one could almost conclude that “nothing fails like prayer” or, perhaps, the only “God” Evangelicals are praying to is the ceiling.
I long ago concluded that Evangelicals say “I’m praying for you” because it is, literally, the least they can do. Such statements are little more than a fart in a hurricane. Think of all the things Evangelicals could do for me that would make a difference or make me think that I am anything more to them than another notch on their gospel gun. Years ago, an IFB evangelist sent me $100. Color me impressed. I appreciated his gift. We struck up a friendship. Maybe he hoped his act of kindness would draw me back to Jesus. Regardless, I found him to be a generous and kind person. He even sent me a fancy tie that I wear to this day. Of course, I didn’t return to Jesus. Instead, he is now an unbeliever — and we are still friends. Be careful sending me money. I might use my magical atheist powers to suck the Holy Ghost out of your heart. 🙂 All kidding aside, Evangelicals. Want to make a favorable impression on me? Send me money. Praying may make you feel good, but it’s a masturbatory act — all about you.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In 2017, Steven Anderson, pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, gathered together a group of like-minded Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers to start a “new” IFB group. At its height, thirty churches were part of this group. Today, rocked by sex scandals, homophobic behavior, and internecine squabbles, the NIFB is no more. Its website is no longer active. Faithful Word’s website makes no mention of the NIFB, and Anderson’s YouTube channel has been terminated for violating YouTube’s terms of service.
Over the years, NIFB pastors Anderson, Donnie Romero, Adam Fannin, Jonathan Shelley, Grayson Fritts, and Logan Robertson, to name a few, have been in the news. Wikipedia states:
A split in the New IFB occurred in January 2019, after Donnie Romero, pastor at Stedfast Baptist Church-Fort Worth (SBC), resigned after it was revealed he had hired prostitutes, smoked marijuana and gambled. Adam Fannin, the lead preacher at SBC’s Jacksonville satellite campus, refused to acknowledge the authority of Jonathan Shelley, another Texas New IFB pastor who took over SBC–Fort Worth following Romero’s resignation. Anderson, Fannin and Shelley traded accusations of financial wrongdoing and running a cult. Fannin was later ejected as the lead preacher of SBC-Jax.
….
New IFB pastors have been the subjects of controversy on numerous occasions. The New IFB is strongly opposed to homosexuality, with several pastors advocating the belief that homosexuals should be executed. Anderson and other New IFB pastors have praised the Orlando gay nightclub shooting. On the weekend of the third anniversary of the shooting, the New IFB held a “Make America Straight Again” conference at an Orlando-area New IFB church. Also in June 2019, Grayson Fritts, pastor at New IFB-affiliated All Scripture Baptist Church and a former detective for the Knox County, Tennessee, Sheriff’s Office, delivered a sermon calling for the execution of gays.
The New IFB considers the modern nation of Israel to be a fraud and it also teaches that Christians rather than Jews are God’s chosen people. Anderson has also produced videos in which he attacks the religion of Judaism and questions the official account of the Holocaust. The New IFB, like older independent Baptist churches, has been accused of being cult-like.
Auckland, New Zealand, New IFB pastor Logan Robertson was deported from Australia in July 2018 after being accused of harassing Muslims at two Brisbane mosques. Robertson had previously attracted media attention after he stated that gay people should be shot and New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern should “go home and get in the kitchen”.
Anderson started the NIFB because he believed the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement was going liberal. This claim was patently untrue. Certainly, some IFB pastors are more “liberal” now than they were years ago. However, their liberalism has more to do with peripheral issues than core theological and social beliefs. I have seen no evidence for the claim that the IFB church movement, in general, is becoming liberal. IFB churches, colleges, and pastors remain ardently and resolutely Fundamentalist. I recently saw a picture of a bluegrass singing group from Bob Jones University — a proudly Fundamentalist institution. I was surprised to see that the women in the photo were wearing blue jeans — a definite departure from their no-pants rule of yesteryear. This is what passes for “liberalism” in IFB circles.
Now to the question at hand: is there a difference between the IFB and the NIFB? The short answer is NO. There’s no difference theologically or socially between the two groups. The NIFB is just a group of churches and preachers who disagreed with other churches and preachers. The NIFB is little more than a squabble among siblings.
I refuse to use the NIFB moniker for Anderson and his gang of Fundamentalists. Using the NIFB label suggests to the uninformed that there’s a difference between them and other IFB churches. It leads to wrong conclusions too. NIFB pastors are hateful, bigoted homophobes. Look at how awful these preachers are, bloggers and reporters say. However, the IFB churches they broke from aren’t any better (generally speaking).
The IFB church movement is known for its infighting, divisions, and church splits. Did you know that you can find the first IFB church in the Old Testament?
And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.And he went on his journeys from the south even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Hai;Unto the place of the altar, which he had make there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the Lord.And Lot also, which went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents.And the land was not able to bear them, that they might dwell together: for their substance was great, so that they could not dwell together.And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram’s cattle and the herdmen of Lot’s cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left.And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.
Abraham and his nephew, Lot, got into a squabble. Abraham’s solution was that they separate from one other. Lot agreed. The Bible says: “and they separated themselves the one from the other.” A crusty old preacher said at a pastor’s meeting I was attending years ago that this passage aptly described how IFB churches are started. Those in attendance laughed, knowing that he was right.
From 1983-1994, I pastored Somerset Baptist Church, an IFB congregation in Mt. Perry, Ohio. Much of the church’s adult attendance growth came from people leaving local IFB churches and joining Somerset Baptist (we also gained members from non-IFB churches too). In its heyday, Somerset Baptist was the largest non-Catholic church in Perry County. Scores of people from IFB churches joined with us, and for a time, virtually every service at Somerset Baptist was buzzing with excitement. What was God fixing to do next? we wondered. Two years later, most of the people who came from local IFB churches were gone. Many of them went back to their old churches, while others moved on to other IFB churches. Our attendance went from 200 to 50, and our income dropped by fifty percent. Stories like this in the IFB world are not uncommon.
I see no evidence for the claim that there are differences between the NIFB and IFB church movement. What we have is an Abraham-Lot squabble, not the establishment of a new sect.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Spend any amount of time on this site, and you will likely read posts detailing emails and social media messages I have received from Evangelical Christians. I left Christianity in November 2008. Since then, countless Evangelicals have attempted to evangelize me, attack my character, or threaten me with Hell. Rare is the thoughtful, polite Evangelical. I mean ivory-billed woodpecker rare. I see nothing in their behavior that commends Evangelical Christianity to unbelievers. Why would any of us ever want to willingly be in the same room with such people?
Some Evangelicals make it their personal mission to attack and harass me. What drives these people to do so? I have long pondered this question, wondering why these people repeatedly email me, send me messages on social media, and leave comments on my blog? What do they hope to accomplish? Surely they know that there is no chance that I will ever become an Evangelical Christian again. The same can be said for many of the readers of this blog. We are not low-hanging fruit. We are not prospects for Heaven. Why not go after people who might be more receptive to the gospel than Bruce Gerencser and his fellow agnostics and atheists?
I’m convinced that some Evangelical zealots have an unhealthy obsession with me. Why is that? I suspect some of them have fantasies about me. Outraged over what I write, they fantasize about me burning in Hell or being tortured by God. Others gleefully fantasize about me dying a slow, painful death (and they see my current health problems as proof they are right). And still other fantasize about God saving me and mightily using me to win souls to Jesus.
Here’s what I think. I am like porn to the Evangelicals mentioned above. They can’t quit looking at me and fantasizing about what they would like to do to me (or what God would do to me). I have thought that maybe I need to send the David Tees, David Barkers, Rev. Makerfields, and Daniel Kluvers of the world — my latest “lovers” — a naked photo of me they can put it on the ceilings above their beds. 🙂 Good idea?
Such people are not going away. As long as I continue to write, I will have to contend with people who are obsessed with me. I will continue to make public their emails, messages and blog posts, and do my best to ignore their harassment behind the scenes.
Today, I received two identical emails from an Evangelical man named Tom Barker. Evidently, his “message” from Jesus is so important that I need to read it twice. My response is indented and italicized. (All grammar and spelling in the original.)
There is a major TRUTH that needs to be addressed here. People like Bruce Gerencser and others who call themselves “atheists” are really either Anti-theists and/or Anti-Christians.
Would it matter if I said that I am not an anti-theist or anti-Christian? Would it matter that scores of Christians read my writing? Of course not. Barker has determined, without evidence, that I hate Christians. Evidently, any critique of Christianity is considered hate.
Yes a combination of Satan the world and yourself and possibly another misguided human source has convinced you that “There is no God”. “No God or gods of any kind”.
Barker seems unable to understand the difference between “there is no God (s)” and “there is no evidence for the existence of God.” I am an agnostic atheist. I have concluded, based on the evidence at hand, that the Christian deity is a work of fiction. The same goes for the God of Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. That said, If Barker has compelling new evidence for his peculiar God’s existence, I am willing to listen. Further, since I don’t know everything, it is within the realm of possibility for me, that a god currently unknown to us might one day make itself known. Thus, I am agnostic on the God question.
I call myself an atheist because I live my life as if there is no God (not in denial, but because I see no evidence of a deity’s existence). The only time I think about God is when I write for this blog. It’s really that simple.
If Barker wants me to think differently, I suggest he convince me with good evidence that his God exists. Of course, Barker can’t do that, as this email clearly shows.
But there is a difference between “atheism and Anti-Christianity
Yes, there is. Have I ever said otherwise? As readers shall see in a moment, Barker’s g-string is tightly wedge in his ass over a meme I posted on my Facebook page.
And what the Facebook page “life and times of Bruce Gerencser” is preaching is ANTI-CHRISTIANITY! I have been on mission in parts of the United States like Seattle and NYC and I have met atheists there they have no exposure to the gospel at all 😭. One guy even said he is a 4th generation atheist. He was not going on Facebook making snide comments about the Bible and the gospel. He was not going on Facebook with snotty little memes making fun of Old Testament scriptures that he knew absolutely nothing about!
Would it be impolite of me to say that Barker sounds like a whiny little bitch? How dare I make snide comments about the Bible and the gospel! Besides, I evidently don’t know anything about the Old Testament. 🙂 While I don’t know everything about the Bible, I suspect that my knowledge exceeds that of Barker. Consider the gauntlet thrown down, Mr. Barker. Let’s have a Bible Knowledge fight. Are you up for the fight? Time to put your KJV where your mouth is.
LATOBG does that! And I have several examples of anyone wants to see them.
LATOBG. Damn, a new acronym. 🙂 For readers who may not know, I have a Facebook page. I post links to my writing there, along with memes and occasional comments about things I have read on the Internet. My page is not a secret. By all means, check it out and click LIKE while you are there.
If you and the fellow bloggers and Fb friends were true blue atheists you wouldn’t be making anti-Christian posts and comments.
If what Barker says is true, would it not also mean that if he was a true-red Christian, he wouldn’t be making anti-atheist posts and comments? Sorry, Tom, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and anti-debate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.
Instead of engaging my writing using good arguments, Barker’s fee-fees are hurt by what I say or the memes I post. Barker might want to peruse Christian blogs, websites, and social media pages. Anti-atheist content abounds. If I was butt-hurt every time an Evangelical posted a meme or blog post about atheists, why I would need constant applications of Vaseline just to sit down.
Memo to the Tom Barkers of the world: if what atheists write really chaps your asses, don’t read it. Problem solved.
And there is no way anyone can go into the light of Jesus Christ and then turn around and embrace the satanic darkness of unbelief ! Sad that someone can preach God’s Word and still have been lost all that time. 😭
Ah, now we get to Barker’s real issue with me. He can’t square my story with his theology, so he must come up with some way to discredit me. Thus, I was never a Christian. I was a “lost” preacher. Thousands of congregants and fellow colleagues in the ministry — all allegedly filled with the Holy Spirit — heard me preach and witnessed my life, yet none of them “discerned” that I was lost; that I was a fake Christian; that I never knew Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Amazing, right? I must have been more cunning and deceptive than Satan himself.
I strongly encourage you and anyone reading this to look up men like Lee Strobel and James Warner Wallace and Howard Storm. All were atheists who came to salvation through Christ Jesus!
I read all three of these authors. Color me not impressed. I watched a video several days ago of James Warner Wallace saying that the God of the Bible never committed genocide. And if he did, he repeatedly warned them about their false worship before he killed them. And, besides, he didn’t kill everyone, so it really wasn’t a genocide. Is this the best Evangelicalism has to offer?
Howard Storm actually had a vision of hell being dragged into it by demons!
And I had a “vision” of me and Pamela Anderson having sex. It didn’t happen, and neither did Storm’s vision of being dragged to Hell by demons. Before I believe such a story, Barker (and Storm) must provide evidence for the existence of Hell and demons. Of course, Barker can’t do that. All he has is the Bible and personal testimonies. Try harder, Tom, try harder.
Jesus Christ loves you all of you! He suffered and died and rose again to give you eternal life in heaven. Admit you are a sinner Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again Trust and receive him now.
How does Barker know Jesus loves ALL of us? What if we are apostates or reprobates? What if we are not elect? This idea that Jesus loves everyone cannot be scripturally supported. Besides, Jesus is dead. Why should any of us care if a dead man “loves” us? Imagine if I traversed the blogosphere telling people that Napoleon loves them? Who gives a fuck? Napoleon is dead.
Pray“LORD Jesus I know I am a sinner lost and I need you. Please forgive me and save me pull me from the sewers of unbelief and into your saving grace I believe you died and rose again I trust and accept you now thank you for loving me forgiving me and saving me in Jesus name Amen”
Okay, I just prayed this prayer. I am now saved and guaranteed a home in Heaven after I die. Woo! Hoo!
What a truncated, powerless gospel Baker preaches. In my Calvinistic days, we called such a gospel decisional regeneration — the belief that salvation is secured by saying and believing the right words. This is the gospel preached by most Evangelical preachers. It is a gospel of “right beliefs” instead of “right living.” Long before I became an atheist, I rejected this gospel. The Bible is clear, “without holiness no man shall see the Lord” and “faith without works is dead.” If Christianity has no power to transform, it’s worthless; it’s little more than a social club. I may be an atheist, but I might be inclined to admire a religion that took seriously practicing love, kindness, compassion, and loving your neighbor as yourself. I doubt I would become a believer, but I might say, “good job, Christians, good job.”
There is a promise that will come to pass. One day every human ever conceived will appear before Jesus Christ and will confess him as Lord. All who have trusted in him alone for eternal life and forgiveness of sins through his death and resurrection will embrace him as LORD in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who died too young to accept him including the millions murdered in the womb will also appear in a glorified body and embrace him in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who rejected him will bow and confess him as LORD in despair and regret for the decision to reject his grace and mercy and chose to pay for their own sins in the lake of fire. 😭😭 (and YES! It is very real!)
Ah yes, we can’t have an email from an Evangelical without a threat of judgment and Hell. Does this ever work with atheists? Nope, but evidently Barker never got the memo.
in short as we head into the heart of July all atheists agnostics Anti-Christians,Muslims,Jehovah witnesses , Mormons and many others who have flat rejected Christ’s grace and/or tried to earn their salvation through “religion” and good works one day will wish they were all at a water park!
In other words, everyone is going to Hell except Barker and those who believe like him. He and “Dr.” David Tee (theologyarcheology), along with Daniel Kluver will have Heaven all to themselves. Heaven will be a zoo no one wants to visit.
God bless
In other words, fuck you, Bruce. I hope you burn in Hell.
If Heaven is filled with Tom Barkers, give me Hell every time. Fortunately, Barker and I are headed to the same place — the grave. See ya there, Tom. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I recently wrote a post titled, The Horrors of the Evangelical Hell. Included in that post was a long email I received from a man named Rev. James Makerfield — likely a fake name. I typically send Evangelicals a link to the post of my response to them. I am happy to report that my post on Hell was so persuasive and devastating that it left Makerfield speechless. Almost, anyway. All Makerfield could say was this: Lost cause 😭
Rev. Makerfield has finally seen the light. Atheists and agnostics are indeed “lost causes.”
Now, go away and find someone who gives a shit. I don’t, and neither do my fellow unbelievers.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Letter to the Editor of The Bryan Times. It was published on July 8, 2021.
Dear Editor,
Evangelicalism is one the most hated religious sects in America, and they only have themselves to blame. Not that they care. Evangelicals have a persecution complex like no other. Forty years ago, the late Jerry Falwell, started the Moral Majority. Its purpose was to turn America back to God by waging a war against our culture. This war has now reached a fever pitch. As more and more people self identify as atheists, agnostics, or indifferent towards organized religion, Evangelicals fear that they are losing their hold on our culture. Instead of praying, evangelizing sinners, and doing good works, Evangelicals have turned to attacking those they oppose, both physically (the January 6 Insurrection) and with words.
The Bryan Times has become a platform for Evangelicals to verbally savage people they believe are their enemies. Pastor Luke Nagy’s vitriolic attack on transgender people several weeks ago is a prime example. I am sure those who think like Nagy shouted AMEN when they read his column, but for those of us who are not religious (I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years), Nagy’s words are yet another example of why Evangelicalism is one of the most hated sects in America.
In 2016, eighty percent of white Evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. I was astounded by the fact that Evangelicals knew how immoral Trump was and voted for him anyway. Four years later, eighty-four percent of white Evangelicals voted for Trump again. The very same people who raged against Bill Clinton’s sex scandal in the 1990s, demanding his resignation, now think such behavior is okay. Why? Political power. Unable to win the culture war with prayer, evangelism, and good works, Evangelicals have turned to politics to slay their secular enemies. And in doing so, they have sold their souls for bowls of pottage.
I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. The Evangelicalism of my early days in the ministry no longer exists. The theocrats have won the day — for now. As with all political power grabs, such victories are shallow and short-lived. Evangelical pastors will one day wonder what went wrong. Where did their members go and why are their churches closed? They need only look in the mirror. The reflection they see will tell them who is to blame for their demise. Preaching hate and savagely attacking those different from them will not succeed over the long run.
Bruce Gerencser Ney, Ohio
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received the following email from a Christian man named Wesley. It is one of the most assumption-filled emails I have ever received. Based on the server logs, I suspect Wesley is a follower of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist and pastor C.T. Townsend. So what’s with Townsend’s followers, right?
As you shall see below, Wesley makes all sorts of assumptions about me, none of which are true. My response is indented and italicized.
My question is serious and before you reply with a long rant, I would like you to know that as stated before it is at the heart “serious” and I would appreciate a serious reply.
I can’t read Wesley’s heart, so all I can do is respond to what he has written. I am not a mind reader. I have no way of differentiating between a “serious” and not serious email/comment. Instead, I respond to what people say. Sometimes, I give people the “Bruce Gerencser Treatment.” I make no apology for doing so. One of the great things about leaving Christianity is that I no longer have to fake play-nice to people. Attack me personally or shit on my doorstep, and I will likely give you a shellacking. Ask a thoughtful, honest question, and I will respond in kind.
Not and angry and aggressive reply reflecting your hatred but with respect as I will in no way show you disrespect.
Wesley assumes I am angry and filled with hatred. He mistakes passion and directness for anger. He mistakes disagreement for hatred. How many times do I need to say that I am not, by nature, an angry, hateful man? Can I become angry? Sure, I am human. That’s said, I am generally a pleasant, happy man — even though I live with debilitating sickness and pain.
Question: If you hate God, Christianity, etc. then why do you have an overwhelming desire to disprove, attack, undermine etc if you will, something that you believe is a fallacy or fantasy? As many other atheists do the same thing I always pondered this.
Wesley wrongly assumes I hate God. I don’t. People read my post, Why I Hate Jesus, and they conclude that I “hate” God. Such people fail to understand the nuance and context of this post. If Wesley is basing his assumptions about me on that post, I hope he will re-read the article and think about what I am actually saying. Try harder, Wesley, try harder.
I am an agnostic and an atheist. As an atheist, I believe there is no God. Based on the available evidence, I have concluded that the Christian God (Wesley’s God) is a work of fiction. Further, I have weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. Thus, I don’t “hate” God. In fact, it would be silly for me to hate God or any other fictional being. Imagine me saying I hate Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Silly, right? So it is with God.
What I DO hate is Fundamentalist Christianity. Hopefully, Wesley understands what I am saying here. I hate what Fundamentalist Christianity does to people. I hate the psychological (and, at times, physical) harm it causes. Simply put, Fundamentalist Christianity hurts people. Who are the people behind the culture war? Who are the people behind attempts to turn the United States into a theocracy? Who are the people trying to ban abortion and force LGBTQ people back in the closet? Who are the people who demand prayer and Bible reading in public schools? Who are the people who want to regulate what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms? Who are the people who want preferential treatment for their religion? Need I go on? Fundamentalist Christians, that’s who.
As long as Fundamentalist Christians do these things, I intend to push back. Are Wesley and others like him willing to “live and let live”? Of course not. There’s no king but Jesus, Evangelicals say, and as long as they keep trying to make Jesus the ruler and king over all, I intend to fight back.
The stated purpose of this blog is to help those who have questions and doubts about Christianity or who have left Christianity. My target audience had NEVER been committed followers of Jesus. Therefore, I limit my interaction with such people to responding to their emails and comments.
I am just one man with a story to tell. Unfortunately, it seems that Wesley doesn’t want me to tell my story. Evangelicals have blogs, websites, churches, and parachurch ministries, all of which are used to preach the gospel, evangelize, and tell their stories. I assume Wesley thinks this is fine. Why, then, should atheists and agnostics not do the same? I think my beliefs and values are superior to Christianity. So why wouldn’t I want to share them?
Wesley thinks I have an “overwhelming desire” to attack God/Christianity/Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am retired. Writing for this blog is my “job,” but it’s not the sum of my life. First, I am quite sick. Last night, I had my worst bout of pain — ever. Quite frankly, I wanted to die. I was flopping and thrashing on the bed, trying to find a way to lessen the pain. Nothing worked, including narcotics, NSAIDs, and potent muscle relaxers. I finally took my pain to the living room, hoping not to disturb Polly’s sleep further. She was, of course, worried. Today, I am tired and weak, but thanks be to Loki, my pain is not as bad. At no time last night did I think about God/Christianity/Bible/atheism. Sorry, Jesus ain’t that important to me.
However, the people who read this blog ARE important to me. I know that every day someone, maybe lots of someones, will find help through my writing. I know that what I do matters.
I have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. I am an avid Cincinnati Reds, Cincinnati Bengals, and Ohio State fan. I am a Lionel Trains collector. I am a photographer. I love to take road trips and eat out. And most of all, I am married to the most awesome woman in the world.
I hope Wesley understands that he has a truncated view of my life; that I don’t sit around all day raging against God. Tomorrow, my oldest son and his girlfriend are taking Polly and me to Cincinnati to watch the Reds play the Chicago Cubs. On Sunday, our youngest son and fiancée are hosting a family party. Hopefully, I get to see all of my children and grandchildren. I’m sure I will have nary a thought about God/Christianity/Bible/atheism.
If we are all going back to the dirt and there is nothing after then why bother? It seems that if Christian’s are wasting their time then would it not be, in the same sense, of equal and mutual regard concerning the plight of a zealous atheist?
Is Wesley saying that without his peculiar God that his life would not have meaning or purpose? Is he saying that non-Christians (most of the inhabitants of earth) have empty lives? Is he saying that the only reason his life matters is because the Bible says God will reward him after death?
Yes, death is the end for all of us. Yes, the afterlife is a myth. But, these facts don’t negate the fact that we DO have THIS life; that we are blessed to be among the living. Just because I will die (sooner than later) doesn’t mean that the present doesn’t matter. It does. You see, I care about others. I genuinely want what’s best for them. I want my children and their families to have better lives than I had. I want to see them prosper and live in peace. I want to help make the world a better place to live. I even want Wesley to have a good life.
I don’t believe I have ever said that Christians are wasting their time by practicing their religion. I am a proponent of free speech and freedom of (and from) religion. That said, I do think that Evangelicals are wasting their time trying to evangelize atheists. Thousands of Evangelicals have tried to win me to (or back) Jesus since 2007. I am not a prospect for Heaven, and neither are the unbelievers who read this blog. Thus, when Evangelicals continue to preach at us and attempt to use worn-out, lame apologetical methods, they are wasting their time.
If you just want to live then just live right?
Sure, but as long as Fundamentalist Christians psychologically (and, at times, physically) harm others, I can’t and won’t just sit by and do nothing. As long as Evangelical preachers sexually molest children, rape teenagers, and take sexual advantage of people, I will speak out, publicizing their abhorrent behavior for all to see. As longs as racial minorities, LGBTQ people, and non-religious people are marginalized and harmed, I will fight back.
“Live and let live” is a grand objective, but as long as we live in a world where religious zealots, bigots, and racists harm others, I can’t ignore what’s going on around me. This was true when I was a Fundamentalist Christian, and it is true now.
I hope you will reply but if you feel an overwhelming need to vent or otherwise… please refrain from doing so as I am TRULY seeking and want no part of an agenda. With warm regards and wishing you to have a wonderful day, Wesley.
For some reason, Wesley wants to control what I say or how I respond to him. Sorry, dude, the moment you hit “send,” you lost control of my response. You could have just asked a question, sans the subtle attacks on my character. Instead, you chose to do otherwise, thus my response. I believe I have answered you fairly, openly, and honestly. If you view my response as angry or hateful, that’s your problem, not mine.
I hope I have adequately responded to your assumptions and questions. If not, please let me know.
Saved by Reason,
My editor, Carolyn, often helps me out by answering emails. Unbeknownst to me, she was writing an answer to Wesley at the same time I was. Her answer appears below:
Wesley,
I am Bruce’s editor and I often help him stay abreast of his email, so I am answering you. No rant, no anger, no aggression, and I am taking your question seriously.
I think you read Bruce wrong. He has no hatred, except for the abuses that take place in Evangelical churches. Bruce does not hate God, nor does he hate Christianity. Let’s address the “god” thing first: Bruce does not believe in god – any god. It’s pretty hard to hate something you don’t believe exists. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, gods – they all fall into the same category. They are mythical beings and Bruce neither hates nor likes, because they don’t exist.
Now to Christianity: As you probably know, Bruce was a part of Christianity for more than 50 years. When he left Christianity, and subsequently deconverted, he didn’t leave in a rage of anger, but it was probably more like with a broken heart. He searched over 100 churches looking for one that followed the tenets of Jesus. Instead he found churches that were more wrapped up in themselves and who only paid lip service to Jesus and Christianity.
Now, as to what Bruce hates: he hates the sexual and psychological (and sometimes physical) abuses that take place in IFB churches – he was a pastor of various IFB churches for 25 years, so this is where his heart was and where he has the most knowledge. He also hates abuses in other churches, but focuses his writings on IFB churches because they are the ones he knows best. He hates the pastors that engage in abusive conduct. This is why he write his Black Collar Crime series, because he believes it is important that everyone knows and understands that pastors are not “Men of God,” and are not above everyone else, nor are they above the law, but that they often engage in conduct that makes them the lowest of the low.
He also hates the “under the blood” philosophy, which allows malefactors to escape responsibility for their wrongdoings by sweeping it all under the rug, claiming that whatever they did before they were saved doesn’t matter. Indeed, they often keep on engaging in egregious conduct after they were saved, believing that all they have to do is get saved again and all is forgiven.
You asked, “If we are all going back to the dirt and there is nothing after then why bother?” Bruce takes a humanist approach to life. Among other things, he works every day to be kind to others. And when he fails, he is quick to own his failure and to apologize to the person to whom he was unkind. Indeed, here is advice that Bruce gives to readers on his About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Carolyn
She knoweth me well. Carolyn is known in our home as my “other wife.” 🙂
