You should have stopped here. Alas, you did not, so what follows is my evisceration of your ill-informed, poorly thought-out critique of my life.
John chapter 10 tell us that Jesus is the shepherd and his sheep know his voice… “a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him. (v. 5)” Maybe part of the problem is that some of these IFB churches are full of lost people who do not know the shepherds voice, hence why you were allowed to pastor at one of them.
Ryan, do you seriously think that all the people in all the churches I pastored were unsaved? It is evident that you didn’t bother to read much, if any, of my autobiographical material. Had you done so, you would have learned that I pastored a General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (GARBC) church, two Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) congregations, a Sovereign Grace Baptist church, a Christian Union church, a non-denominational church, and a Southern Baptist congregation. I also preached special meetings for other denominational churches, everything from Freewill Baptist to Assembly of God. Do you really think all these people were unsaved?
Thousands of people heard me preach over the years. I had numerous colleagues in the ministry. Not one of these people, at the time, “discerned” that I was unsaved; that I was a false prophet; that I was a tool of Satan. Either I had everyone deceived, or you don’t know what you are talking about. My money is on the latter.
Further, do you personally know the people I pastored, or me personally, for that matter? That’s a rhetorical question. I know you don’t. Yet, you think it is okay to judge the spiritual condition of thousands of people you don’t know. You don’t know anything about how I have lived my life, my character, or my commitment to preaching the Word of God and ministering to the churches I pastored.
Let me give you a verse to think about: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
I agree with you that the IFB pushes many false doctrines.
And what are those doctrines, exactly? What makes your doctrines right, and theirs wrong? How do you know you are right and everyone else is wrong?
However, the IFB is not the final say on Christianity.
And neither are you, yet you seem to think that you are. Why don’t you “share” your beliefs with me and the readers of this blog so we can have a go at them? Let’s see how sound you are doctrinally. No sect or Christian has a corner on right beliefs. Certainty leads to arrogance, and that is exactly where you are when you say that your beliefs are right, and everyone else’s beliefs are wrong (so much so that their wrong beliefs will land them in Hell).
Turning your back on Christ because of your IFB experience is exactly what the enemy would have you do.
Sigh (please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”). Had you bothered to read my autobiographical material, you would have learned that I pastored my last IFB church seventeen years before I left Christianity. I didn’t leave the faith because of my “IFB experiences.” I left Christianity primarily for intellectual reasons. I came to the conclusion that the Bible was not inerrant or infallible; that Jesus was not divine; that Jesus was not virgin born, nor did he work the miracles attributed to him; that Jesus did not resurrect from the dead.
I am an atheist, so the Christian God is a myth, as is the Devil. I have no “enemy” that has nefarious intentions for me. Well, I take that back. I have interacted with scores of Evangelical Christians who have wished ill will upon me, who are praying God judges or kills me, and who said all sorts of hateful, bigoted, vile things about me, my wife of 44 years, my six children, my thirteen grandchildren, and the non-Christian readers of this blog. Assholes, the lot of them.
I would beg you to reconsider your decision and read God’s word for yourself with an open heart desiring only to know the truth embodied by Jesus Christ.
Double sigh
Ryan, I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I was saved, baptized, and called to preach. I attended a small Bible college where I met my wife, a preacher’s daughter. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I preached 4,000 sermons. I read and studied the Bible for more than 20,000 hours. I can safely say that I know the Bible inside and out; that it is doubtful that you can tell me something meaningful pertaining to the Bible that I don’t already know. Feel free to try, but I suspect you will quickly learn you are out of your depth.
Supposedly, I am a reprobate; one who has done despite to the Spirit of grace. You implied that I am a servant of Satan. Yet, you think all I need to do is read God’s word for myself (who else would I read it for, Ryan)? Really? Besides, doesn’t the Bible say that the natural (unsaved) man cannot understand the things of God? Doesn’t the burden of my salvation rest on God’s shoulders? I can’t be saved unless your God, Ryan, gives me ears to hear and eyes to see. Salvation is of the Lord, right? No man can come to God unless the Spirit draws him. If you want me to be saved, I suggest you take it up with God. He knows where I live. He knows my email address and cellphone number. Come get me Jesus, I’m ready. How about dinner at 5 pm at Applebee’s?
My mind is wide open, Ryan. Feel free to provide me with compelling evidence that Christianity is true; evidence that I have not already considered. I seriously doubt such evidence is forthcoming. I have carefully weighed the claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting.
I am not trying to be impolite, but it is evident, at least to me, that you didn’t do your homework. Did you really think your comment would do anything other than annoy me? I suggest you never ever take this approach with a stranger on the Internet again. All you have done is remind the readers of this blog why they are glad that they are no longer Evangelical Christians.
All praise be to Loki.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received in the mail a handwritten four-page letter from a young Christian family in Columbus, Ohio. They thought it so important for me to immediately receive their letter that they spent $27.90 to send it to me via Priority Mail Express. Sent on December 5th, I received it today.
The letter writer, a woman, was raised in High Street Baptist Church in Columbus — an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist congregation formerly pastored by Charles Mainous. (His son is now the church’s pastor.) Mainous currently operates Afflicted Bible Missions and Fundamental Baptist Publications. He’s written deep theological tomes such as Athletic Shorts: What Does the Bible Say? and Is Romanism in the Bible?
Ten years ago, the letter writer and her family left High Street, and after a year found True Christianity®. The letter writer painfully shares how Charles Mainous harmed their lives. I feel her pain. I know Mainous, having interacted with him several times years ago. Mainous is virulently anti-government, having filed lawsuits against various governmental entities. At one time, the church’s steeple was painted red, white, and blue. Its entrance doors had big signs that warned FBI agents about attending services to spy on them. Mainous carried a handgun while in the pulpit.
One Tuesday in the early 1980s, I attended a Buckeye Baptist Fellowship Meeting at High Street Baptist Church in Columbus, Ohio. I thoroughly enjoyed the monthly pastors’ fellowships I attended at various Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches. These meetings were a time for me to shoot the breeze with my ministerial colleagues and listen to what I considered, then, to be great preaching. On this particular Tuesday, one of the speakers was Charles Mainous, the pastor at High Street. Mainous was known for his virulent anti-government sermons. At the time, the steeple of his church was red, white and blue, church members carried firearms, and posted warnings on the doors warned government agents of this fact. I had heard him several times before, so I knew what to expect. During his harangue, Mainous said that it was a sin for pastors to pay into Social Security; that it was up to God to take care of his preachers, not the government. If Catholic priests could take a vow of poverty and be tax exempt, so should Baptist preachers. I thought, “he’s right. God called me, God leads me, God talks to me, and God gives me my sermons to preach. Surely, God can take care of me when I get old.” And so, following Mainous’ advice, I filed for exemption from paying social security taxes on my ministerial income (and housing) (IRS Form 4361). I was twenty-five years old. Still physically fit, playing competitive basketball in the winter and softball in the summer, I looked good, felt good, and thought of myself as downright invincible. Jesus and Bruce were ready to take on the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world!
Mainous also talked me into unincorporating the church I pastored in southeast Ohio. I was somewhat anti-government too, so unincorporating made perfect sense. What Mainous didn’t tell me is that if you ever close your church, you and the congregation don’t have control over its assets — the county court does. It took us months to settle our financial affairs after closing.
Exempting myself from social security also caused me all sorts of financial problems, especially now that I am retired. My retirement check would be double what it is now had I paid into social security. I remedied this mistake late in my ministerial career, but it was too late to make much of a difference in my monthly check amount.
Mainous, a rich man, definitely gave a poor, young Baptist preacher bad advice. From the aforementioned post that references Mainous, the letter writer concluded that “my life had been negatively affected Mainous’ teachings.” This is not true. Sure, Mainous gave me bad advice. Sure, this advice hurt Polly and me financially. But, Charles Mainous played no part in my deconversion from Christianity. I’ve met countless Charles Mainous’ over the years — pompous, arrogant preachers filled will bigotry and self-righteousness. Horrible men, to be sure, but they were not the reason I walked away from Christianity.
The letter writer shared a bit of her spiritual journey, telling me that not only God is real, but so is Satan. She implies that Satan is my problem, not God; that if I find the “right” God — hers — that all will be well. Typically, I eviscerate people who make such silly claims, but there was something about her letter that said to me “here’s a family who was deeply wounded by Charles Mainous and High Street Baptist Church; here’s a family who has found meaning, purpose, and peace in a different expression of faith,” so I put my boning knife away.
Toward the end of her letter, the letter writer said:
What the enemy [Satan] has stolen he has to return and return it seven times.
So I speak that over your life.
That your health be restored!
Your finances be restored!
Your relationships be restored!
The letter writer wanted me to know that she “knew” what I am feeling and going through. Really? It is quite arrogant to say such a thing to someone you do not know. I suspect she is trying to say that she understands the things I have gone through in my life. I doubt it. I am old enough to be her father (and maybe her grandfather.) My experiences are unique to me. It is never wise to tell someone that you feel his pain or understand what he is going through. Empathy and sympathy don’t require understanding. They do require love and kindness.
The letter writer concludes her letter by saying:
And the God Mainous is telling people about is not the God who has revealed himself to me.
And my prayer is one day you will see the true God Yeshua (is she part of a Messianic Jew congregation?).
He loves you and is there for you.
Of course, I could easily discredit and dismantle her claims, but I won’t. Why? Included with the letter was a $50 Walmart gift card. Money always buys a lot of goodwill from me. Hint! Hint! Victor Justice, Dr. David Tee, Revival Fires, Danny Kluver, and Elliot. 🙂 Not from Walmart, though. We avoid Walmart if we can. Please email me for my preferred gift card list. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I received the following email (all spelling and grammar in the original):
So, when you were a Christian, did you have a relationship with the Lord? And if you did, did you not study the bible, asking Him how you should apply what is written into your life? Did you not realize all the he said, she said of different Christian religions is all man made, laws and rituals(earthly confusion I think making others/us separated from God ) and not to be our basis for judging one another, because that is God’s job anyways.
I was raised catholic. I married a divorced Lutheran, and my scales were slowly being removed, as my mother in law told me, you know there will be others besides catholics in heaven. ..that rocked my world. . Fast forward 25 years of living in Houston Texas and many different Christian churches, all having nuances that makes them their label, but the church began when Jesus started preaching? Or died? I don’t really know, but does that affect my salvation?
I believe no one shall come to the Father except through the Son. So, how did you break off your relationship with Our Lord? You know, He’s never let go of you and there’s nothing you can do to separate His love for you. I’m glad I don’t have it all figured out, because I bet you don’t have peace if you’re still lost in this stuff you’re trying to hold onto. Pride is a sneaky thing. But God loves His perfectly imperfect children.
Where, oh where do I begin? Let’s start (and end) with the statement, I bet you don’t have peace.
First, what is peace? Evangelicals love to talk about peace, yet they rarely give a concrete definition of what peace actually is. Evangelicals say Jesus gives them peace, but they never define that which Jesus gives them. The Apostle Paul says in Philippians 4:7:
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Maybe that’s the problem. Evangelicals can’t define peace because it passes all understanding. If peace passes all understanding, how, then, can the letter writer know whether I have it? What, in my life and writing, suggests that I don’t have peace? Because I yell and curse at the television when the Cincinnati Reds are losing, and I do the same when the Cincinnati Bengals blow a late-game lead? What, exactly, is this peace I don’t have?
According to the Sage English Dictionary and Thesaurus (my go-to dictionary), peace is the absence of mental stress or anxiety; harmonious relations; freedom from disputes. Perhaps peace is what Paul meant in Philippians 4:11:
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Evangelicals believe Isaiah 9:6 is a prophetic passage of Scripture about Jesus:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
According to Evangelicals, Jesus is the Prince of Peace. The angels of God came to the shepherds who were in the fields with their flocks and said of the birth of Jesus:
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Jesus supposedly brought to earth peace and goodwill to all men. Yet, Jesus said in Matthew 10:34-36 that he did not come to earth to bring peace:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
And let the Bible gymnastics begin.
In Galatians 5:22-25, the Bible lists peace as one of the fruit of the Spirit:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
The fruit of the Spirit IS — present tense. True Christians® are to demonstrate love, joy, PEACE, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance in their lives. How many Christians do you know who manifest these things? Think of all your Christian Facebook friends. Do you associate them with the word peace? Remember, the fruit of the Spirit is the standard by which Christians are judged. How many Christians do you know who exude peace? The next time Donald Trump has a narcissistic pep rally, watch how attendees behave and remember most of them claim to be followers of Jesus. Watch as sects and pastors engage in internecine warfare. Watch their attacks on fellow Christians and atheists alike. Listen to all the hateful, nasty, violent rhetoric, and just remember that these people say that they are followers of Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, and the almighty, wonderful Prince of Peace.
To the letter writer I ask: where can I see this peace you talk about? I am sure it exists somewhere, but from my vantage point, all I see are churches and pastors fighting over who has the “truth” and who is the authoritative earthly spokesman for God. Pope Francis said that capital punishment — without exception — is immoral, yet some American Catholic politicians rejected the Pontiff’s order and said governments have a duty to kill convicted criminals. Where’s this peace the letter writer talks about? There’s nothing peaceful about revenge killing, and that’s exactly what state-sponsored murder is.
Who are the primary supporters of the endless war on terror and the torture of enemy combatants? Who are the primary supporters of drone warfare, a violent, frightening way of raining death and destruction on soldiers and innocent civilians alike? Many of the loudest voices supporting the military-industrial complex belong to Evangelical Christians and members of other conservative sects. Where, oh where, is the peace that passeth all understanding?
To the letter writer I say this: perhaps your cause would be better served by getting your fellow believers to practice what they preach. You speak of peace, yet I don’t see it. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus told the people gathered to hear him what was required of them to be his followers. In Matthew 5:9, Jesus said, Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are the peacemakers. Not blessed are those who think peace is a good idea, but blessed are those who work towards making our world a peaceful place. (I’ll leave it to Christians to square what Jesus says here with what he said in Matthew 10:34-36. Good luck with that.)
I strive to be a peacemaker, first by being at peace with self, and then being at peace with my family, friends, and community. I am sure I fail at this almost every day, but I do strive to be a peaceful man. And on the global plane, as a humanist and Democratic Socialist, I work towards the cessation of war and violence. Many American Christians believe that the way to bring peace to the world is to use the U.S. military, NSA, and CIA to violently beat other nations into submission. Peace, then, is whatever the U.S. government says it us. We are the most violent and bloody nation on the face of the earth — read The Dominion of War by Fred Anderson and Andrew Clayton — yet we think the United States can bring about world peace. Until the U.S. is ready and willing to denuclearize, close its military bases in Africa, Asia, and Europe, and stop being the world’s policeman, there will be no peace.
To the letter writer I say this: I am at peace with myself, my spouse, my family, and my neighbors. I am not an angry man, nor do I bear grudges. I do my best to practice what Paul said in Romans 12:18:
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Not only do I strive to live peaceably with all men, as a humanist I do what I can to promote world peace. The Abrahamic religions have done little to bring about an end to violence, suffering, and death. Just look at the ongoing wars in the Middle East. George W. Bush was right when he called the war on terror a crusade. Now in their twenty-first year, the religious wars between Christians/Jews and Muslims, Jews and Muslims, and Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims continue unabated. Hundreds of thousands of people have died, millions of people have lost their homes, trillions of dollars have been spent, and entire cities have been reduced to rubble. All praise be to God, Allah, and Jesus, right?
The letter writer thinks that I don’t have peace. He is wrong. I hope this post will cause him to think about the word peace, what it means, whether Christianity is truly a religion of peace, and whether I am the one who lacks “peace” in his life.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from a Christian man named Glenn Jedlicka (all spelling and grammar in the original):
the why I hat e Jesus was a bit strong , I believe I dont want to stand near you when the good Lord asks you why you hate His word and want to get rid of certain verses that you dont approve of , God loves all people , but hates the sin , thats why in my opinion He came to take away and bare our sins , and every line of the bible will stand true forever., but going back to sin —the real Jesus and the real western christians will pray the Lords prayer , and walk according to the Spirit of God , until He returns …………..the verse you mentioned in Romans 1 is about Gods wrath on unrighteousness —and what is unrighteousness —–well its the verse you hate — Instead perhaps see these verses as well Romans 1:28 as they did: Rom_1:18, Rom_1:21; Job_21:14-15; Pro_1:7, Pro_1:22, Pro_1:29, Pro_5:12-13, Pro_17:16; Jer_4:22, Jer_9:6; Hos_4:6; Act_17:23, Act_17:32; Rom_8:7-8; 1Co_15:34; 2Co_4:4-6, 2Co_10:5; 2Th_1:8, 2Th_2:10-12; 2Pe_3:5
Jedlicka read the post Why I Hate Jesus and thought it was “strong.” Evidently, Jedlicka didn’t like my rebuke of Western Evangelical Christianity and American culture warriors. He didn’t specify what he disapproved of outside of saying that I want to get rid of certain Bible verses because I disapprove of what they say.
I am an atheist, so I don’t care one whit about what the Bible does or doesn’t say. This blog is not a theology site, though I do talk about theology, at times. My only concern is over how the Bible is used to cause harm. Jedlicka believes every line and word of the Bible “will stand true forever.” In his mind, the Bible is a supernatural book written by a supernatural God. Of course, Jedlicka can provide no evidence for this claim. No Christian can. Believing God “inspired” (wrote) the Bible is a faith claim. No Christian can prove that the Bible is the “words of God.” I assume Jedlicka also believes that the Bible is inerrant and infallible. These are not faith claims. I can easily show that the Bible is not inerrant and infallible. (I can also clearly show that the Bible DOES NOT say that God loves everyone, but hates their sin. Please see “I Don’t Hate the Skunk, I Hate Its Smell,” Evangelicals Say.)
Jedlicka thinks that I will someday stand before God on Judgment Day and have to explain why I wrote Why I Hate Jesus. Jedlicka thinks God will call me to account for “hating the Bible and getting rid of certain verses I disapprove of.” On that day, Jesus will turn to Jedlicka and say:
Did you bother to read my servant Bruce’s blog post? How did you miss that he was rebuking Western (American) Christianity? I agree with everything he wrote. Western Christianity sickens me with its focus on right beliefs, incestuous programs, masturbatory worship, hero worship, buildings, and political power.
While I have you here, Glenn, let me review your life. Did you feed the hungry? Did you give drink to the thirsty? Did you take in strangers and care for them? Did you clothe the naked? Did you care for the sick? Did you care for those in prison? Did you care for widows and orphans?
With his head hung low, Glenn finds out that he had spent his entire life pursuing a false Jesus and practicing a bankrupt form of Christianity.
Jesus says to Glenn:
Depart from me, Glenn Jedlicka, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall Glenn also answer him, saying, Lord, when did I see thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And Glenn shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Glenn, like many Christians, to quote my dear United Church of Christ friend, Pastor Jim Brehler, “missed the point.” Swallowed by his obsession with right beliefs, political power, and morality codes, Jedlicka missed the whole point of the teachings of Jesus. While I may be an atheist, I find great value in many of Jesus’ teachings. Imagine if Christians took seriously and put into practice the teachings of Jesus in Matthew 5-7. Why, they would transform the world. Instead, Christians such as Jedlicka are more concerned about interpreting the words of the Bible than they are about practicing the words of Jesus.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The five people who were killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence at all that they were Christians. So assuming that they were not, that they had not accepted the truth of the gospel of Christ and affirmed Jesus Christ as the lord of their life, they are now reaping the consequences of having eternal damnation. And that is far, far greater – we should be having that conversation. Instead of just the tragedy of what happened to the body, we need to be talking about what happened to the soul and the fact that they are now in eternal separation from our lord and savior Jesus Christ.
If I stand up and I tell you, ‘You should treat the homosexual with honor and dignity. Does that make you want to hate that person in your heart? No.
But if I get up here and I say, ‘Every faggot is a pedophile, they are a child molester, they are an abuser,’ guess what? That instills a little bit of hatred. In fact, you’ll grow to have a perfect hatred for the enemies of God.
They’re sick and gross because the Bible says so. And not just the male faggots. Also the women-faggots too.
All the lesbos, all the dykes, all these butch dykes out there, they deserve the death penalty too. It should be punished with death by the government.
I could spend several days posting hateful, violent quotes from Evangelical preachers. I routinely get nasty comments and emails from miscreants such as Victor Justice and Revial Fires — the latest in a long line of Christians who feel it their duty to harass and harm, not only me, but my family.
Just today, Justice said:
Little Bruce,
You really are a demented piece of crap. Human words cannot describe the consequences which you will face soon! You’ll be held 100% accountable for these very words, and it will start just one second after your death! Your genocidal hatred of Almighty GOD (Praise His holy, glorious, and wonderful Name, that Name that is above every other Name, everywhere) will NOT go unpunished. You will pay for every idle word you spoke against my GOD and My LORD, Jesus Christ Almighty (that beautifully majestic Name, the only Name that saves)!
You can’t even handle a few rough emails without running your fat, obnoxious, read-end over to your head shrink. You then need to sit on his couch, while you cry like a little sissy, while he hands you multiple tissues. How are you going to cope with an ETERNITY in the Lake of Fire? I’ll tell you how; you’re not going to have any choice, and there will be no ESCAPE…
BTW, when you leave the counseling office; the entire staff laugh’s you to scorn! Later, they go home and eat dinner with their families while retelling the miserable clown’s story from work…and they, and their families all MOCK YOUR NAME TO SHAME! YOU PATHETIC PUNK!!!
The three individuals quoted above all claim to be devout followers of Jesus. Yet, their behavior suggests that they are anything but. One could argue that these people are outliers, but my experiences with such people over the past fifteen years suggest that such behavior is far from rare. In fact, its prominence seems to be increasing.
I was a serious student of the Bible for most of my life. I have read it from cover to cover numerous times. I spent thousands and thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible. What I learned is that I should treat my enemies with kindness and respect; that I should give evidence in my life of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control; thatno corrupt communication should proceed out of my mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Why, then, do so many Evangelicals viciously attack atheists, liberals, and LGBTQ people? Are they not acting in ways contrary to the teachings of the Bible? Polly and I talked about this very thing over the weekend. The “why” question has always fascinated me, so when Evangelicals act in ways totally contrary to the teachings of Christ, I wonder “why?”
I told Polly that I think a lot of Evangelicals view atheists, liberals, and LGBTQ people as “less than”; people unworthy of love, kindness, decency, and respect. I suspect their thinking flows from the belief that people can apostatize and become reprobates — people beyond the saving grace of God. In their minds, I have crossed a line of no return, and once I crossed it they no longer have to treat me as a fellow human being. Lost on them is the fact of how Jesus treated reprobates such as Judas. Did he attack them and their families? No. These purveyors of hate will find no justification in the Bible for their behavior.
Sadly, nothing I know of will stop these preachers of hate from viciously attacking anyone and everyone who runs afoul of their warped view of the world. They are the ones who have crossed a line of no return.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, Will Cunningham, the marriage pastor at Mission Hills Church in Denver, Colorado sent me an email. Yes, another one of THOSE emails. Yes, another one of those emails, written by an Evangelical who can read, yet who ignores what he has read because of, well because of J-E-S-U-S. Evidently, Cunningham must have thought I was ignorant of who this Jesus was, or — better put — that I was ignorant of his human-crafted version of the man, the myth, the legend — Jesus, the Christ.
Every Evangelical who contacts me is asked to READ and THINK before he or she does so. The contact form for this site says, in part:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
Thanks for your honest and vulnerable opinions on Christianity, Jesus, pastors, etc. I stumbled on your site by entering, “What happens when pastors become arrogant?”, and (an hour later) found myself still reading. Finally, I just decided to write you. My response is not an attempt to sway you back to faith in Christ. I simply want to connect.
Your blog, “I Hate Jesus”, obviously caught my attention. As I read it, I found myself agreeing––not because I share your atheist views, but because I believe we have constructed a terrible and tragic caricature of Jesus, and have forced him upon the gullible masses.
The real Jesus is worth loving, though.
The Jesus I love is the one who, from the beginning, made men and women equal––not just in essence, but in authority, as well. His earliest instructions to them were twofold: reproduce and rule, TOGETHER! The first time we see or hear anything that suggests patriarchal rulership, it is spoken in the form of a curse to Eve… “Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” The Jesus I love is grieved at churches that prohibit women preachers, and households where men lord their assumed positional power over their wives.
The Jesus I love is completely comfortable in the presence of homosexuals, adulterers, porn stars, divorcees, and people of who hold non-Christian beliefs. And he is especially fond of atheists.
The Jesus I love is also fond of presidents, popes, kings, queens, and assorted politicians. And he loves pastors––even the arrogant assholes that you mentioned in your writings. Saul was once an arrogant asshole, until he saw the light and became a pretty decent fellow. The Jesus I love knew just what Saul needed in order for him to change his arrogant ways. And He waited patiently, until just the right moment came along… then He helped Saul see things as they really were. Now, we know him only as the Apostle Paul.
The Jesus I love made mountains, oceans, sunsets, birds, wine, sex, and more. All for our enjoyment! If He was here today, I think He’d probably dig Zagnuts, too. And I’m sure He would approve of deep dish pizza.
The Jesus I love hates certain things, for sure. He hates dishonesty. He hates pride. And He is especially grieved when His own children don’t love each other.
The Jesus I love IS love. If the cross proves anything, it proves this. Thus, I can be confident when I say that He also loves Bruce Grr-in-Sir and his lovely wife, Polly. Perhaps we will meet someday, Bruce. Until then, I am your friend…
Will Cunningham Marriage Pastor at Mission Hills Church in Denver, CO And former asshole
Cunningham is a staff member at a multi-campus megachurch in Denver. The church has over one hundred staff members and elders. Astoundingly, ninety-eight percent of staff members and elders are white. That said, women are well represented, though none of the elders or top-shelf pastors is female, so I question Cunningham’s commitment to an egalitarian view of women and marriage. According to the church’s EFCA page, its annual income exceeds $13 million.
I searched in vain for a doctrinal statement, but as I browsed the church’s website it became clear that Mission Hills is an Evangelical church holding to typical Evangelical beliefs and practices. It’s not uncommon these days for Evangelicals to omit or hide their doctrinal statements. The reason, of course, is to get people to attend without having preconceived ideas about the church. However, at Mission Hills, beliefs matter, so why not put them out there for all to see? How is it not bait and switch to lure people into your church with promises of love and acceptance, only for them to find out that full admission into the fellowship of the ring requires fealty to the Bible and its teachings (or, more properly, the church’s peculiar interpretation of the Bible)?
More and more Evangelical churches are presenting themselves as LGBT friendly congregations. Come to our church, they say. We will love you exactly as you are. Here’s what’s not said: We believe homosexuality is a sin. We oppose same-sex marriage. Our goal is to present LGBT people with the life-changing gospel of Jesus in the hope that they will repent of their sins and follow Jesus. And in following Jesus, they will need to, at the very least, live a celibate life. Better yet, embracing Evangelical heterosexuality would be da bomb!
It’s really easy for LGBT people to test whether a church is actually as gay-friendly as its members say they are. Go to the pastor and ask the following:
Pastor Craig, my gay wife and I really love attending Mission Hills Church. We both are followers of Jesus, and we would love to renew our wedding vows in church. Would you be willing to let us do so? We would also like to become members of the church and begin serving in some capacity — say on the worship team or starting a new class for LGBT people. Wouldn’t that be awesome, Pastor Craig? Imagine how our class could be used as a way to say to the LGBT community that Mission Hills really does love them as they are and has no interest or desire in changing them. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for LGBT people to learn that Mission Hills supports them fully regardless of their sexual orientation?
Let the stammering, stuttering, and ‘splaining begin. Churches such as Mission Hills may, in a warped way, “love” LGBT people, but over the long term that “love” will be used to bring change and conformity. After all, isn’t that what the Bible says? That humans are broken sinners is need of “fixing,” and the only person who can fix them is Jesus. Those who are born again, the Good Book says, become new creations in Christ. The old life passes away and all things become new — including whom you have sex with and whom you are married to.
Cunningham believes that many Evangelicals have constructed a false Jesus; the Jesus featured in my post, Why I Hate Jesus. (This post, by the way, is the most widely read post on this site.) In his mind, this Jesus is a false Jesus. I will assume, then, that the millions and millions of people following this false Jesus are not Christians. A false Jesus is, according to the Bible, an antichrist. Thus, the rational conclusion of Cunningham’s claim is that these Evangelicals are following an antichrist. Is this really what he wants to say? If yes, then how is his narrow, defined view of Jesus and Christianity any different from the beliefs of other sectarians? Isn’t the real truth here that all Christians create a God/Jesus in their own image; that, in fact, there are as many Jesuses as there are Christians; that the Jesuses of today are very different from those years ago; that Evangelical Jesuses bear little or no resemblance to the Jesus who walked the dusty roads of Palestine?
Cunningham would have me believe that his Jesus is LOVE. I will assume Cunningham is Trinitarian. If he is, then he believes that Jesus is God. And if Jesus is God, then he is culpable for all the things God did in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and will yet do, according to the book of Revelation. Let’s take, yet again, Cunningham’s theology to its logical conclusion:
It’s the Jesus-is-Love God® who drowned millions of humans in Noah’s flood, including children, pregnant women, and unborn fetuses. This God saved eight people out of the millions he suffocated with water. Where, pray tell, do we find LOVE in this story? If I set the entire world on fire, killing everyone except Polly and me and our six children, would future generations say of me that I murdered the human race because I loved them? Of course not. I would rightly be remembered as a maniacal psychopath. And let’s not forget the uncounted millions of innocent animals who perished, all because God was pissed off at humans. The Jesus-is-Love God® killed puppies and kittens, dammit! What does that say about him?
It’s the Jesus-is-Love God® who killed Uzzah, a devoted follower of his, all because, with good intention, he dared to touch the Ark of the Covenant to keep it from falling. It seems, then, that the Jesus-is-Love God® is quite similar to Fundamentalists with their strict rules and subsequent punishments for failure to obey. (There are 635 laws in the Old Testament.)
It’s the Jesus-is-Love God® who, during his time on earth, allowed Herod to slaughter all the male children under the age of two. The Jesus-is-Love God® sure loves the little children, all the children of the world, right? I mean, look at all the children who are starving and living under threat of violence and death? If the Jesus-is-Love God® truly loves the little bitty babies in his hand, why does he ignore their plight?
It’s the Jesus-is-Love God® who did nothing when his people, the Jews, were slaughtered during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE. It was the same the Jesus-is-Love God® who took a vacation and couldn’t be reached when Hitler and Nazis murdered six million Jews.
It’s the Jesus-is-Love God® who will one day rain down on earth the violence, savagery, and death recounted in the book of Revelation. Revelation reads like a book co-authored by Dexter and Hannibal Lecter. Why, if HBO produced a TV series on Revelation, it would require an NC-17 rating for blood and gore. Yet, the Jesus-is-Love God® is reputedly a man of love, peace, kindness, and Snickers bars.
Despite all the murderous violence perpetrated by the Jesus-is-Love God®, Cunningham would have me believe that this Jesus indeed loves me and has a super-duper, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious plan for my life.
I assume Cunningham believes in the existence of Heaven and Hell and believes that all humans will stand before God one day and give an account for their lives. In my mind, this is where the proverbial rubber meets the road. As I bring Cunningham’s Jesus-is-Love God® before the throne of Bruce Almighty, all that matters to me is what Cunningham believes about Hell. This is, for me, the test of tests, that which shows the true nature of Will Cunningham and Mission Hills Church. The Bible is clear on who created Hell — the Jesus-is-Love God®. The Bible is also clear on who puts people in Hell — the Jesus-is-Love God®. The Jesus-is-Love God® will torture the inhabitants of Hell for eternity all because:
They worshiped another God besides the Christian God
They were born in the wrong geographical location to the wrong parents
They had the wrong Evangelical beliefs and worshiped the false Jesus
They loved whom they loved and had sex with them, despite what the Bible said about their sexuality
They were atheists, agnostics, Pagans, humanists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc.
According to orthodox Evangelical theology, far more people will be in Hell (Lake of Fire) than Heaven (the Eternal Kingdom of God). The Bible says the path to Heaven is a straight and narrow way and few people will make it through the pearly gates. The Bible also says Jesus is THE way, THE truth, and THE life. The definite article makes it clear that there is only one way, truth, and life, and, according to Cunningham and the Mission Hills church, the Jesus-is-Love God® is the only way, the only truth, and the only life. If all roads lead to Heaven, Cunningham wouldn’t have bothered to email me. He sincerely believes my wife and I are on the wrong path, a path that ultimately leads to eternal damnation.
What I want Cunningham to understand is that from the unbeliever’s perspective, his view of love is anything but. As long as there is a Hell and non-Christians end up in that Hell, it cannot be said that Jesus is l-o-v-e. Now, perhaps someday Evangelicals will take Thomas Jefferson’s scissors to the Bible and cut out the pages and pages of things that offend. Until then, unbelievers such as myself will continue to see the Bible God as anything but a God of love.
Lastly, I want to address Cunningham’s benediction:
The Jesus I love IS love. If the cross proves anything, it proves this. Thus, I can be confident when I say that He also loves Bruce Grr-in-Sir and his lovely wife, Polly. Perhaps we will meet someday, Bruce. Until then, I am your friend…
Cunningham is confident that the Jesus-is-Love God® loves Bruce and Polly Gerencser. How could he possibly know this? There’s nothing in the Bible that says he loves us. In fact, I could make a persuasive argument from the inerrant Word of God that Cunningham’s Jesus-is-Love God® does not, in fact, love us. Whether due to us not being numbered among the elect, or us committing an unpardonable sin, it seems to me that we have crossed the line of no return. We have done despite to the Spirit of grace, and we have trampled under our feet the blood of the covenant. We not only reject the teachings of Christianity, we are as confident as Cunningham is with his Jesus-is-Love God® that the Christian God is a work of fiction, and that the “resurrected” Jesus does in fact lie buried somewhere in the sands of the Middle East. We are also confident that the Bible is not a supernatural book written by a supernatural God, and its teaching are largely irrelevant, and at times harmful, for twenty-first century dwellers. Fourteen years ago, we walked out of the Christian church, never to return. We left the bondage of Egypt and are on a journey to the Promised Land — a land where love, kindness, peace, and reason prevail. We are now in our sixties. Soon, death will come knocking on our door. While neither of us wants to die, we are ready to face life’s end, confident that once we draw our last breaths the only thing that will remain is our ashes, the memories people have of us, and the mark we made while living. We will, if death claimed us today, be grateful for the forty-four years we have spent together. We will also be grateful for our children, grandchildren, daughters-in-law, extended family, friends, and our two cats. While we wish we hadn’t wasted so much of our lives serving a non-existent deity, we know those experiences have made us who we are today, and they allow us to provide compassionate help to those trying the extricate themselves from the hands of the Jesus-is-Love God®.
Cunningham speaks of meeting us someday. Is this his passive-aggressive way of reminding us that we will only meet him if we come to love and know his Jesus-is-Love God®? Or, perhaps he thinks we will run into each other in Ohio or Colorado. We live twelve hundred miles from each other, so it is unlikely that our paths shall ever cross. Besides, Cunningham is assuming that Polly and I would want to meet him. Why would we? What in his email says to either of us, this is a man whom we would love to have over for dinner or go to strip club with? As many pastor-Evangelical interlocutors have done, Cunningham presumes he can, without my participation, be my friend. Evidently, the word friend doesn’t mean much to him. I actually have very few friends: my wife, children, Polly’s parents, my siblings, a man I have known since third grade, my editor, and a handful of people I have met over the years through this blog. I have scores of acquaintances, some of whom are closer than others, but friendship? I zealously protect the word “friend,” reserving it for the people who would stick by my side no matter what. Cunningham is my age, but perhaps he has been infected by the Facebook spirit of the age and everyone he comes in contact with is his friend. I choose, instead, to insist that the word friend has meaning, and those I call “friend” are special people who have embraced me as I am, and I have done the same for them. Cunningham and I will never be friends. First, I don’t want to be friends with him, and second, we have very, very little in common. I am not trying to be mean here, but I don’t want the good pastor to think that because he sent me an email, we are, in any way, friends. We are not.
Nothing I have said in this post will keep Evangelical zealots from sending me email. In their minds, the will of God as perceived by them supersedes my personal desires, and click, off goes another email to the former Evangelical pastor turned atheist Bruce Gerencser. Such is the nature of having a widely read public blog.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from a Christian man named Matt:
Funny, I was in prayer the other day begging God for something and telling him what a worm I was. He told me to stop groveling and act like His child, his beloved child.
God never calls us to grovel at His feet. We go there to spend time with Him, to enjoy Him, to behold His beauty and majesty.
I hate the wrong Jesus too. But the right Jesus is the one I follow. I don’t go to church due to the wrong Jesus being worshipped there. But I still follow the right Jesus. Bruce, you’ve let Satan and a bunch of goofs in church lead you into unbelief and hate. Be smarter than that and follow JESUS.
I worshipped the wrong Jesus, Matt worships the right one
Matt follows the “right” Jesus, but doesn’t go to church
I have let Satan and “goofs” lead me into unbelief and hate
I need to be smarter than that and follow Jesus
Certainty breeds arrogance, and Matt is plumb full up with both. Here’s a guy who doesn’t go to church because he can’t find a church with “right” beliefs, yet he expects me to accept him as some sort of authority on Biblical truth. Not a chance.
Matt’s comment is all about him. Look at me, Bruce. I have the right beliefs. I worship the right Jesus. I am so pure that there’s no church good enough for me. Yet, he provides no evidence for his claims. His comment and email are long on bald assertions and short on actual evidence.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Earlier tonight, I received the following email from a drive-by reader named Brandon. Brandon read a handful of posts before emailing me. Brandon ignored my request to NOT send me emails such as his, and emailed anyway. Evidently, he lacks basic decency and respect for other people.
My response to Brandon’s missive is below.
Dear Bruce, I’m so saddened by your story. But it’s one of mankind.
Why be saddened by my story? I have been happily married to the same beautiful woman for forty-four years. We have six wonderful children and thirteen grandchildren. We own our own home, drive a 2020 Ford Edge, and own a 65-inch TV. We even have a cat. I am well-fed and own enough clothing and shoes to last me the rest of my life. My life isn’t perfect, but damn, Brandon, you gotta admit that I have it pretty good.
Now, if you were saddened by my health problems, I would understand. I am saddened too. Every day is a challenge for me. However, I suspect what saddens you is my atheism; my rejection of your peculiar God. I am quite willing to believe in your God once you provide sufficient evidence for its existence. Further, you claim that the Bible is the Word of God. You might even believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible. Again, once you provide sufficient evidence for your claims, I will believe. The same goes for the supernatural claims found in the Bible or your affinity for John Calvin’s gospel. Convince me, and I will believe.
You, of course, have provided no such evidence. Instead, you just want me to know that I am headed for Hell. You could have spent your opportunity convincing of the truthfulness of your claims. Instead, you preached AT me, condemning me to the flames of the Lake of Fire. Perhaps you think I know all I need to know, so there’s no need to share the “truth” with me. This would be strange since, according to Calvinism, God must give me eyes to see and ears to hear. Maybe this was the night God opened my eyes and ears to the glorious Calvinistic gospel. You wasted a golden opportunity to reach me.
Of course, I am being sarcastic. You have zero chance of reaching me for Jesus. Even “God” can’t save me. I am a happily unsaved, apostate, reprobate atheist. I’m confident that the only thing I will “see” after I die is nothingness. There is no afterlife, no Heaven, no Hell. Surely you knew that I was not a prospect for Heaven, yet you emailed me anyway. Why? Think about that for a bit, Brandon. Be honest. Your email is all about you being “right,” and not about leading a poor lost sinner to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Remember, God uses “means.”
You were never saved, nor was I who grew up in the church and had a similar story.
How can you possibly know if I am saved? For that matter, how can you possibly KNOW you are saved? Calvinism teaches that a person must endure/persevere until the end to be saved. Thus, no Calvinists can KNOW they are saved. For all you know, I am presently saved, God is chastising me, and will safely bring me to the end in grace. How dare you speak for God! 🙂
Surely you know it is a bad idea to judge others by our own personal experiences. I am not you. You have no idea who I am or what I have experienced in life, yet you choose to judge the sum of my life through the lens of your own life.
Let me quote you my favorite Bible verse: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
You cannot and will not accept Jesus. He chooses you. You have no say in the matter, and you cannot reject Him. I was convinced I was saved until I realized I was not. We have no say in the matter. No matter what prayer you pray, how much you do, or how “good” you are, you cannot do a thing to make Jesus save you. I learned the hard way. I hope you learn too.
Sigh (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) You do know that I was a Calvinist for years, right? I know the gospel you are preaching inside and out. (Please see the series Why I Became a Calvinist.) I am sure that you will find some way to “pick” at my story, hoping to prove that I never was a Christian. However, all the extant evidence suggests that I was a devoted follower of Jesus. You will search in vain for someone who knew me at the time that will say “Bruce was never a Christian.” Either I was a master deceiver, deceiving church members and colleagues in ministry, or I was, in fact, a committed Christian. That you cannot square this with your peculiar theology is not my problem. I once was saved, and now I am not.
He sends most of us to hell because He is a good and just and loving God. It is only His right, and His mercy and love that He even had Jesus die for a select few of us for His glory. It’s not about us, never has been and never fully will be. Man’s chief purpose is to glorify God in all ways, even if He does not save you, you will acknowledge Him, and you will glorify Him- either in His grace, or His justice.
There’s Calvin’s God in all its heinous glory. I hope readers will ponder Brandon’s words. It is just and loving for God to send sinners to Hell. I assume this applies to children, and infants too; and anyone who is not elect.
Think and read. May God be merciful upon you.
I have done all the reading I need to do, Brandon. Did you seriously believe your judgmental letter would enlighten me in any way? I hope you will think twice before arrogantly and self-righteously emailing strangers and telling them they are headed for Hell and na-na-na there’s nothing they can do about it. Do better, Brandon, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Victor Justice, a Calvinist who hides behind fake names, and email addresses, and uses a VPN to keep me from blocking him, continues to send me hateful, vicious emails and comments. I have wiped Justice from this site, but his latest comment was too “good” to let it rot in the spam folder with Revival Fires’ comments.
You are truly a 100% certified piece of human waste!
“ I do want to make an offer to the teacher in question:
Invite me to one or more of your classes to talk to them about my political, religious, and social views. I will gladly answer any questions they might have. I will publicly debate you on any issue — even the designated hitter rule for Major League Baseball. Please have your people contact my people and we will set it up.”
I understand that I’m “banned” because I have out classed you on your own blog. I also understand that you secretly are jealous of my debating skills, and that you absolutely understand that too. But I almost thought I’ve seen everything until this pathetic post here today.
Just for clarification; I believe that if your story is correct. This teacher has no business whatsoever doing this to your grandchild. I’m saying —if your story is correct, because you have personally accused me of attacking your children and grandchildren, sigh. You made these false allegations knowing that it wasn’t true.
Anyway, where do you get the unmitigated gall to puff yourself up and pretend that you’ll intellectually mix it up with anyone, anywhere, at anytime? You are the biggest yellow belly, hiding under your wife’s skirt, cowardly troll I’ve ever seen!
You’re afraid, VERY AFRAID, of debating Victor Justice. You are afraid, even though you control the entire platform! LOL.
Just know, that I know, that you know, and that we both know, that you ain’t worth the crap!
Sincerely yours,
Mr. Victor Justice
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The reasons for my deconversion are many. Poor pay, psychological stress, and chronic illness and pain, all played a part in my loss of faith, as did my inability to square the indifference of God to the suffering of humans and animals alike. Ultimately, though, I left Christianity because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity to be true.
Calvinist troll Victor Justice stumbled upon this post and decided to use it to deconstruct my life. What follows is my response. All spelling and grammar are in the original.
So let’s unpack some of this:
POOR PAY:
….
Paying fellow Christians fairly and graciously for the work that they do should be part of the love we should have for the brethren. I can see how being mistreated in this way could build great resentment. I’d also think that mature, GOD fearing men would be able to distinguish between the atrocious acts of some men, many who are fake Christians, and GOD’s real plan clearly proclaimed and commanded by His holy Word.
Justice will search in vain for a post where I say I resented the churches I pastored for any reason, let alone the income they paid me. Every church I pastored (all of which were new church plants or young churches), except two, paid me what they could. The other two could have paid me more but chose not to do so. That’s why I worked secular jobs. I was always a full-time pastor, regardless of what I was paid.
I do appreciate the fact that Justice admits he is a fake Christian. His “atrocious acts” on this site make it clear that he is not a real Christian.
You strike me as someone who wouldn’t pay those who labor in the ministry much better, unless you were personally affected. That’s the honest sense I get from reading you extensively for many years. You sound like the quintessential cheapskate from what I’ve been able to glean. OCPD is highly correlated with extreme selfishness, but the sufferer still has a choice.
Nothing I have written would lead a fair-minded reader to conclude I was a “quintessential cheapskate.” Justice is just making shit up. He continues to say that he has read my writing extensively for years when, in fact, he has not.
By all means, ask Polly, my children, grandchildren, friends, colleagues in the ministry, and former church members if I am selfish. These people will give testimony to the fact that I am a generous person, someone who has gladly suffered loss for the sake of others. Over the years, I loaned church members money (which often went unpaid), bought them groceries, paid their rent and utilities, purchased them automobiles and appliances, clothed their children, and did what I could, with my own money, to model Jesus to them. Maybe I will share some of these stories in the future.
Justice, of course, has zero evidence for his claims.
PSYCHOLOGICAL STRESS:
I speak from experience as someone with OCD (not OCPD). Living with this type of disorder would predispose you to elevated levels of stress no matter what your chosen profession. Add to your OCPD, narcissistic tendencies, obesity, and indifference and you have a recipe for disaster that is now very much your reality. But, we both know that the real elephant in the room is trying to do this IN THE FLESH, as you are not saved, and you never were saved. End of story here.
No matter what I say or try to explain, Justice will continue to say things like this. Yes, I was diagnosed with OCPD. Yes, I am obese, though I weigh 110# less than I did two years ago. Everything else Justice says is untrue, and he knows it.
CHRONIC ILLNESS/PAIN:
Again I speak with much experience. You’re a miserable person to smear others living with severe pain, illness, disease—with the fruits of a rotten to the core, heretical, bastard like yourself! This amounts to nothing but self pity.
I have no idea what Justice is talking about. Where have I ever smeared someone else living with chronic illness and pain? Justice will, again, search in vain for evidence to bolster his claims.
TENETS OF CHRISTIANITY:
You started dabbling with leftist political thought, which is some of the most effective work of the Devil. What happened in the process of your lust for the things of the world, the flesh, and the Devil is that you got Completely Sucked IN!
Your story really isn’t really so unique or fascinating, as it is common, pathetic, and sad. It has not only cost you everything, but it’s also cost YOUR FAMILY everything…you fat, lazy, miserable slob! Your family—your children—that the LORD Jesus Christ blessed you with, are now all messed up! And they will continue to be messed up because of the sins that you have committed!
GOD Almighty blessed you in all of His graciousness and deep goodness. You have no one to blame, but yourself. Not Polly, not Polly’s family, not your parents, not your grandparents, not any trolls or haters online! Just little, sad, Bruce. You dig?
These paragraphs will be the last ones Justice will ever write on this site. The same goes for Revival Fires — Justice’s lover. Both of them are using VPNs to evade blocking technology. While I know what VPN service they are using, I can not block it due to the fact that other readers, including several regular commenters, are using this particular VPN service. I will no longer acknowledge their emails/comments, deleting them immediately. I have also deleted ALL of their previous comments. Both of these vile men only care about inflicting me with psychological harm. I plan to rob them of the power to do so.
After this post was published, Justice left the following comment on YouTube:
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
