Over the years, I have responded to thousands of emails and comments from Evangelical Christians, including those who are part of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. After thirteen years of swimming in the Evangelical swamp, I have learned a few things:
No matter what I write, Evangelical zealots are going to reject what I say
No matter what I say, Evangelical zealots are going to dismiss my story out of hand
No matter how I treat Evangelical zealots, they will continue to smear my name, attack my character, and shit on my doorstep
I have also learned that Evangelical zealots have little regard or respect for me as a person. I ask commenters to follow the comment guidelines, and many people do. However, Evangelical zealots seem to think that the rules don’t apply to them; that they have a right to say whatever they want; that they have a message to deliver to me straight from the mouth of God. Thus, zealots believe they can verbally assault me and those I love, and I should just roll over and be nice to them. And if I don’t, I am accused of being just like the IFB preachers I oppose.
Here’s what I know: I respond directly and honestly with commenters on this blog, people who send me emails, or message me on social media. Don’t believe me? Ask Carolyn, my editor. She reads my email responses and comments. She will tell you I am kind and thoughful in my responses as long as people treat me in kind. However, if someone starts with condemning me to Hell, attacking my character, or verbally assaulting me, I am likely to give them what regular readers call the “Bruce Gerencser Treatment.” Ask honest questions or make comments worthy of a response, and I will do my best to patiently and kindly respond to you.
The sad truth is this: many Evangelicals cannot (or refuse to) play well with others — especially people associated with the IFB church movement. I am at a place in life where I am no longer willing to invest any emotional capital in trying to “reach” them. My goal has always been to help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who are no longer believers. While my writing has been instrumental in more than a few Evangelicals leaving the faith, that’s never been my objective.
I will continue to help people in any way I can. Piss in my corn flakes? You reap what you sow.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I have long argued that Evangelicals are inherently Fundamentalist. Several years ago, I wrote a post titled Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?:
Many people think that Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism are two different species of conservative Christianity. However, I plan to show in this post that Evangelicals are inherently Fundamentalist, and that the only issue is to what degree they are Fundamentalist.
Some of the confusion comes from the fact that there are Evangelicals, such as the Independent Fundamentalist (IFB) church movement, who proudly wear the Fundamentalist label. Thus, an Evangelical — say, someone who is a pastor in the Evangelical Free Church of America – rightly says, I am NOT like those crazy Fundamentalist Baptists. They see the extremism of the IFB church movement, condemn it, and by doing so think that they are not Fundamentalist.
The word Fundamentalist was originally used to describe a group of sects, churches, and pastors who took a stand against perceived theological liberalism in the denominations of which they were a part. From 1910 to 1915, the Bible Institute of Los Angeles (BIOLA), published 90 essays that were published in a 12-volume set of books titled, The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth. (You can see a complete listing of the essays on Wikipedia.) These essays provided the theological foundation for the modern Fundamentalist movement.
The words “fundamentalist” and “fundamentalism” can also be used in a generic sense. While almost always used when describing the beliefs of religious sects, fundamentalist beliefs can also be found in politics, science, economics, and even atheism. The focus of this post is Christian Fundamentalism, particularly Protestant Fundamentalism.
There are two components to the Fundamentalism found in Evangelicalism:
◉Theological Fundamentalism
◉Social Fundamentalism
Theological Fundamentalism
All Evangelicals are theological Fundamentalists. What do Evangelicals believe?
◉The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of the triune God.
◉Salvation is through the merit and work of Jesus Christ.
◉Jesus is the eternal, virgin-born, sinless, miracle-working Son of God who came to earth 2,000 years ago to die on the cross for the sins of humankind.
◉Jesus resurrected from the dead three days after being crucified. He later ascended back to Heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the Father.
◉Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and salvation is gained only by putting one’s faith in Jesus Christ.
◉All non-Christian religions are false and many Christian sects have heretical beliefs.
◉There is a literal Heaven, a Hell, and Devil.
◉Saved people go to Heaven when they die and non-saved people go to Hell when they die.
◉Someday, Jesus Christ will return to earth to judge the living and the dead. The heavens and earth will be destroyed and God will make a new heaven and a new earth.
….
Evangelicals may quibble with one another over the finer points of this or that doctrine, but EVERY Evangelical believes what I have listed above. And it is these beliefs that make them theological Fundamentalists.
While it is true that liberal and progressive theology are making inroads within Evangelicalism, this does not mean that Evangelicalism is becoming less Fundamentalist. Liberal/progressive Evangelicals are outliers, and, in time, due to the inflexibility of Evangelical theology, they will either leave Evangelicalism and join liberal/Progressive Christian sects or they will become a bastard child subset within Evangelicalism.
….
Social Fundamentalism
Social Fundamentalism focuses on the conduct, lifestyle, and social engagement of the Christian. An Evangelical looks at the rules, standards, and negativity of an IFB church that proudly claims its Fundamentalist moniker and says, SEE I am NOT a Fundamentalist. I don’t believe in legalism. I believe in grace, and I leave it to God to change how a person lives.
This sounds good, doesn’t it? However, when you start to poke around a bit, you will find that almost every Evangelical is a social Fundamentalist — the only difference between Evangelicals being the degree of Fundamentalism. This can be quickly demonstrated by asking those who think they are non-fundamentalist Evangelicals a few questions. Questions like:
◉Can a practicing homosexual be a Christian?
◉Can a homosexual man be a deacon or pastor in your church?
◉Can a same-sex couple work in the nursery together?
◉Do think it is okay for unmarried heterosexuals to engage in sexual activity?
◉Can a cohabiting heterosexual couple be a member of your church?
◉Do you think it is morally right for a woman to wear a skimpy outfit to church?
◉Is it ever right to have an abortion?
◉Do you think smoking marijuana is okay?
◉Do you think it okay for your pastor to smoke cigars and drink alcohol at the local bar?
◉Is it okay for someone, in the privacy of their home, to become inebriated?
By asking these questions, and a number of similar ones, you will quickly discover that the non-Fundamentalist Evangelical is a social Fundamentalist after all. While these Evangelicals may jeer and laugh at the crazy, extreme rules and standards of the IFB church movement, they too have their own set of non-negotiable social standards. They, like their IFB brethren, are social Fundamentalists.
….
I am sure some Evangelicals will argue that their social Fundamentalism, like their theological Fundamentalism, comes straight from the B-i-b-l-e. Of course they do. ALL Evangelicals think their beliefs come straight from the Bible. The IFB pastor has a proof-text for everything he preaches against, as does the I am NOT a Fundamentalist Evangelical pastor. Both believe the Bible is truth, an inspired, inerrant, supernatural text. The only difference between them is their interpretation of the Bible.
…
Remember, if it walks, acts, and talks like a Fundamentalist, it is a Fundamentalist. Evangelicals can protest all they want that I am unfairly tarring them with the Fundamentalist brush, but as I have shown in this post, their theological and social beliefs clearly show they are Fundamentalist. If they don’t like the label, I suggest they change their beliefs and distance themselves from Evangelicalism. They need not become atheists/agnostics if they leave Evangelicalism. Even though I was not able to do so, many former Evangelicals find great value and peace in liberal/progressive Christianity. Others find the same in non-Christian religions or universalism. If it is God you want, there are plenty of places to find him/her/it.
Today, an Ex-IFB Fundamentalist named John Fanortney left several comments on an interview I did on the Preachers Boy podcast, hosted by Eric Skwarczynski.
Bravery has nothing to do with Bruce’s decisions. Possibly honesty, but honesty proves the conscience given by God. There are many abusers and bullies within the IBF movement as there are at CNN, MSNBC, ABC, socialistic schools, politics, leftists, BLM, Fauci, Biden, etc. Bruce has chosen to believe the impossible: accidental evolution with the survival of the fittest. Bruce and his groupies BLINDLY follow the mask mandates and Covid lies as many fundamentalists BLINDLY follow their pastor.
….
Bruce paints a pretty picture of his blog. One will experience same vitriol from him as one may have experienced from an IBF fundamentalist. Bruce can spew unkindness just as IBF pastors can. I agree with Bruce about the child molester that he mentioned. The people who voted him for pastor need their head examined; in fact, the man should be punished by drowning according to the Lord Jesus. I served under David Hyles and Jack Hyles and when I discovered their wickedness, it didn’t shake my faith. It actually enhanced my faith because the Bible warns of this behavior. Many pastors of the IBF are wretched, but so are many atheists like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, etc. Both systems have good and evil people.
….
@Bruce Gerencser you are right; it’s IFB [I pointed out his incorrect use of the acronym]. You don’t need to make an apology. I was just letting people know. I left fundamentalism, but I didn’t leave the Bible. As one can read that I was not unkind to you in my comment. I was simply stating an observation. Jordan Peterson is an amazing example of dealing with hostile opposition.
….
Bruce definitely can be a Christian and I think he is, but he is an offended Christian. His offenses allows [sic] him to justify his position.
It’s clear from Fanortney’s comments that he is still a Fundamentalist, despite him suggesting otherwise. Scores of IFB pastors and church members have fled this sect’s narrow confines, only to land in places that are still Fundamentalist — just less so. They have just traded one flavor of Fundamentalism for another.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A Fake Name Evangelical Christian sent me an email that said:
Is it because of the relationship with your dad and what happened with your mother the reason you walked away from Jesus Christ?
I’m not trying to be ugly or cause painful memories and I know how you feel I know what it is like to lose a mother young. Mine was 51.
Before I could respond, he sent me another email:
One day you will stand before Jesus Christ and everything you ever did,said and even thought will be revealed!
The REAL questions are this:
Will you face him as Saviour or judge? You do not want to face him as your judge.
How much time do you have before this appointment?
Every person regardless of age,health,wealth and so on in only ONE UNO heartbeat away from death.
For the person who has trusted in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation and forgiveness of sins heaven awaits and eternal life with Christ and fellowship with believers from all time.
For the unbeliever who has chosen to reject his grace and opted to pay for their own sins they will be separated from Christ in the lake of fire for all eternity and will be in complete isolation.
Also the lost will remember every sin and every time they mocked and chose to reject the gospel for all eternity.
“BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED “ ACTS 16:31
and . . . before I could reply to either of these emails, this AFJ (Asshole for Jesus) sent me this:
It is truly sad that anyone would reject the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ especially someone who “preached “ it once.
Let me sum up this AFJ’s emails:
Bruce, you are going to burn in Hell after you die unless you get saved.
Today, another AFJ sent me the following illustrated email:
You are not going to want this future my friend.
Day in day out, Evangelical zealots threaten me with eternal punishment, thinking that doing so will magically lead me to fall on my knees, repent of my sins, ask Jesus to save me, and return to Christianity — the one true faith.
Ain’t going to happen . . . but that won’t stop zealots from continuing to bombard me with threats of death, Hell, and eternal damnation. Evangelicals can’t help themselves. Bothering and badgering people about their “eternal destiny” is part of Evangelical DNA.
On to Monday Night Football . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an Ohio man named Michael Clemons:
Mr. Gerencser, Your threat of exposing my ignorance and the threat to my church and Christianity are laughable considering your testimony of now being an atheist and considerable publishing of that; therefore you care nothing about how you affect a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Your testimony is all about me, me, me, me. Notice Lucifer in Isa. 14:13-14 it was all about him too. I hope you were saved because if you were you still are even though you no longer believe ( 2Tim. 2:13). Maybe you weren’t, I don’t know. I know this, a lost man doesn’t know where he came from or where he is going ( Jn.12:35), but a saved man that is in fellowship with God ( 1Jn. 1:6-7) has a clear cut testimony of where he is headed ( Rev.19:10). You are right in one thing, you can do a lot of harm to believers in Christ, more so than the average man or outlandish sinner, or religion.
I responded:
Michael,
I have no idea what you are talking about. I’ve searched for any interaction with you using the name/address in this email, without success. Please provide context, so I can respond accordingly.
Thank you.
Bruce Gerencser
I searched this site and the Internet for any references to Michael Clemons. I found none. I searched my email, blog comments, Twitter, Facebook — not one interaction between Clemons and Satan. 🙂
Clemons later stated:
Mr. Gerencser, This was on your blog. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? And you continue “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity and my church? Now read my email to you over again.
I read Clemons’ emails to Polly, asking her, “what the hell is this guy talking about? She suggested that maybe he was butthurt over something I wrote in a post; that he was personalizing a general statement I made about Christians or Christianity.
Using the logs for this site, I was able to zero in on the posts/pages Clemons read. He read two pages and one post. Finally, I figured it out. Clemons was upset over the following paragraphs on the Contact page:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
I sent Clemons the following email:
Look dumb ass, you said “ Mr. Gerencser, Your threat of exposing my ignorance and the threat to my church.” Where, exactly, did I say anything about YOU or YOUR CHURCH?
Or, are you just butthurt for your tribe?
Bruce Gerencser
I received no further correspondence from him.
The statement on the Contact page is meant to ward off emails such as the ones sent to me by Clemons. On balance, I receive a lot less email from Evangelical zealots than I did years ago. I make no apology for my terse responses to Evangelicals who choose to email me anyway.
I do want to address Clemons’s claim:
Your testimony is all about me, me, me, me. Notice Lucifer in Isa. 14:13-14 it was all about him too.
Let’s see, I am sharing my story with readers. Should I not write in the first person? In fact, any time I try to do otherwise, Carolyn, my editor, smacks my hand and says, no, Bruce, no. 🙂
Clemons might want to read his Bible more closely. Quiz time, Michael, Who said: I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman? Jesus. Go read John 15 and see how many times Jesus spoke in the first person. I, I, I, me, me, me — Jesus was just like Lucifer. What a prideful narcissist. 🙂 Or Jesus used proper grammar. Or maybe the writers of the gospels did. Or the translators did, anyway.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Sadly friend and I am not trying to be unkind but it appears that you spent 50 years trusting in your good works and position as a pastor for salvation.
Then I don’t know you read something or someone planted a seed of doubt or what that’s between you and the Lord.
Good works can’t save anyone not even a pastor!
I’m a deacon and street evangelist and neither of those make me holy or righteous only by the grace of Jesus Christ through his suffering and death and resurrection do I have any righteousness!
Heaven and hell are real and there is more proof for the resurrection of Jesus Christ than there is for napoleons defeat at Waterloo.
It exists whether a person believes or not.
Salvation cannot be earned it is only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9,Titus 3:4-6.
Jesus Christ was beaten to bloody shreds and was crucified to pay the penalty for sins (and yes sin exists if it doesn’t I encourage you to leave your door standing wide open the next time you go away for a few days and post that in the blog!)
Jesus rose from the dead to give eternal life in heaven and salvation from sin and hell.
Romans 6:23
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
There is only one way and it is through Christ by realization that you are a sinner and need him Trust in him and him alone for eternal life
Millions will face him one day and will offer up how good they were and it won’t matter.
A person can do a million good things with one sin they are unclean before Christ who is Holy and righteous.
It’s like making a delicious 4 egg omelette with three fresh eggs and one nasty rotten egg.
Unacceptable to serve to you or anyone.
Or making a cake and adding just a small ounce of dog crap. Again disgusting ! And unacceptable to serve to anyone.
I encourage you to seek Christ and turn to him by genuine faith and receive his gift of eternal life.
and:
It is truly sad how the prince of darkness has blinded all of you to the truth.
The lake of fire is NOT a threat it is a real place where real people who die in their sins without Jesus Christ will spend a real eternity!
I would strongly suggest you watch the movie HEAVEN’S WAR.
Blessings,
CRW
Do you remember me saying to you:
Randy,
If you want to have a discussion on these, and other, issues, please take it to my blog. You will find plenty of people willing to engage you.
If your goal is to preach — and it seems it is — please stop emailing me. You are not going to say anything I haven’t heard before (or said myself).
Thank you.
Bruce Gerencser
And what did you do? You sent me another email that said:
Ok I will respect your wish and not email again.
I appreciate your response.
And may come to blog for discussions later.
I do hope you will sincerely accept Jesus Christ before it is too late.
Atheists and Anti-Christians will one day wish they were at a water park……
I tersely replied:
Yet, you emailed me again.
You just can’t help yourself — signing off with another cute threat of Hell.
Why would I want to be like you, Randy?
Bruce
And, contrary to your promise to NOT email me again, you did:
Ok I’m only responding to answer your question.
I don’t want you to be like me. Be like the one who created you Jesus Christ. And who you evidently pretended to serve for 25 years.
Hell is not a threat it is a PROMISE and WARNING.
The eternal lake of fire in torment for Satan,the demons and each soul who chose to reject the gift of eternal life.
And religion is man trying to reach GodJesus Christ is God reaching out to sinful man through his grace and mercy and death and resurrection.
Blessings.
My “question,” Randy, was not a question I wanted you to answer. What I wanted is for you to think about your behavior. I wanted you to do a bit of soul searching, asking yourself whether your approach with me and other non-Christians is effective and whether your words reflect well on you, Jesus, and Christianity. Did you read the comments on the aforementioned post? Only “Asshole for Jesus,” Dr. David Tee/David Thiessen/TheologyArcheology, agreed with you. You are in rare company, Randy — and not in a good way.
Do you seriously think attacking my character, saying I’m a liar, and threatening me with Hell are effective ways to evangelize me? Or is the real issue this: you can’t square my story with your peculiar theology?
It seems that your Christian faith is based on cliches. You have sure used enough of them in your emails. Let me give you one more: “You are the only Jesus people see.” Your ill behavior, threats, and attacks speak volumes about the Jesus you say you follow. If the best transformative work the Holy Spirit can do is you, Randy, why would anyone want to follow your version of Jesus? Are you so obtuse that you cannot see how your words drive people away from Jesus and not towards him? I don’t understand your behavior and that of others like you. Your fellow Christian, “Dr.” David Tee, frequently shits on my doorstep, finding joy in being as hurtful and mean-spirited as possible. Granted, you seem to be a tad bit nicer than Mr. Tee, but neither of you (and scores of other Evangelicals) reflects the fruit of the Spirit:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22,23)
Note what the Bible says: the fruit of the Spirit IS [present tense]. This is not an ideal, something to strive for. A True Christian® evidences the fruit of the Spirit in his daily life. Perhaps instead of calling my Christian past into question, you might want to look at your own life. Are YOU a Christian?
Want to win me back to Jesus? Want the readers of this blog to at least think admirably about Christianity, even if they choose not to believe? Change your behavior. Walk in the footsteps of Jesus. Ask yourself WWJD?
I would love to talk to you about your beliefs. However, before we do so, I want to offer to send you one of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books. All I ask is that you read the book before we talk. I warn you that Ehrman’s books have led countless Evangelicals away from Christianity. Are you willing to risk your faith, or are you so certain that you are right that no amount of new information will change your mind? Surely, you and the Holy Spirit can withstand the words of a lowly NT scholar. Anyway, if you are interested, please email me your address.
My final admonition is this: Do better, Randy, do better.
I ask that any further interactions with me take place in the comment section of this post.
Saved by Reason,
Update: Randy deleted his email account so I couldn’t respond to him. I can now check to see if someone is blocking me instead of deleting their account. Randy’s account no longer exists.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Randy Willis. My response is indented and italicized. All grammar and spelling are in the original.
I saw your little Facebook post about Biblical marriage and wanted to share the truth with you.
What you want to share with me is your personal opinions and interpretations of the Protestant Christian Bible. Why should I listen to one word you say? You imply that you speak for God. What evidence do you have for this claim?
Jesus Christ is God who created man and woman. Male and female for the institution of marriage. They however chose to sin willfully.
First, you must provide evidence for the existence of God. Then you must provide evidence for that God being Jesus. Just because a book says something doesn’t make it true. Have you read the Harry Potter books? Why should I view the Bible differently from Harry Potter?
You wrongly think the Bible=truth. It does not. The Bible was written by mostly unknown men thousands of years ago. It is not in any way a moral/legal standard by which societies should or must govern themselves. The United States is a secular state. Currently, heterosexual and same-sex marriage are legal in all fifty states. Cohabitation and common-law marriages are recognized in most states. Marriage is a legal contract between two people. God/Bible has nothing to do with state-sanctioned marriage. You, Randy, are free to live according to moral and legal teachings of the Bible — albeit I am certain you do so selectively. No Christian follows all the teachings of the Bible. Why does it matter to you who marries whom? I can’t think of one thing that would materially affect your life if two women marry. Can you think of anything, Randy?
I don’t believe in “sin.” Sin is a religious construct used by sects and clerics to cause fear, keep asses in church pews, and money in offering plates. Evangelicals like you, Randy, are obsessed with who fucks whom, when, where, why, and how. Why is someone’s sex life any of your business. If I have a threesome tonight — God, I can only hope 🙂 — how does that materially affect you in any way?
I assume you believe in personal accountability and responsibility. I know I do. Explain something to me. Why is any of us responsible for Adam and Eve’s “sin”? We all come into this world “sinless,” yet Evangelicals teach that we are born with a sin nature; that we come into the world at variance with God. We have no choice in whether we become a “sinner.” Does that seem fair and just to you? When you look at a newborn, do you see a sinner who hates God, a little bundle of Hell deserving sin? I know I don’t.
The world would be a far better place if we banished “sin” to the dustbin of human history. Just imagine how much better the world would be if Christians stopped moralizing about the “sins” of others?
Because of sin marriage was perverted polygamy, sodomy and everything that was listed on that meme that was meant to mock God’s Word.
Of course, I meant the meme to mock God’s “word.” That’s the purpose of memes. That said, the Bible does permit and condone incest, polygamy, and other sexual relationships Evangelicals consider “sin.” In fact, the Bible commands the subjugation and rape of female children. You do know this, right?
“And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.
….
And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.“
Have fun with that one, Randy.And then we can talk about slavery and genocide.
Did Adam and Eve “pervert” marriage? How about Cain and Abel? If yes, what evidence do you have for this claim? We know that it is likely Cain and Abel married and/or had sex with their sisters. Was this incest? How would they have known it was incest since it would be long after their deaths that God gave Moses the law? You seem to be reading later history back into Biblical text or taking your personal moral standards and applying them to Adam, Eve, and everyone else who lived before the giving of the law. Is a behavior a sin if God has not forbidden it? Think on that one, Randy.
I know telling you the TRUTH will be met with how big of a hater I am . . .
Just because you capitalize the word TRUTH doesn’t make your claims any more truthful. If you want me or the readers of this blog to accept your truth claims, you are going to have to present evidence for them. So far, you have not done so. An assertion is not good evidence for anything.
I have no idea how big of a “hater” you are. It seems, at least to me, that you have a persecution complex. You sent me an unwanted, unsolicited email, Randy. Why did you do so? What did you hope to accomplish? Are you a hater? I don’t know. So far, all I know is that you are obsessed with what consenting adults do behind closed doors.
. . . but let me ask you this. If your house was on fire in the middle of the night would you rather I just keep driving? Or bust the door in and pull you out and save your life?
You sent me an email expressing your outrage over a meme I posted on social media. There’s nothing in your email that remotely fits your burning house analogy. (I do hope you would call 911 before trying to “save” me.) You didn’t even share the Christian gospel with me. Damn, this might have been the day I got saved had you shared the good news with me (as Trese did yesterday, and countless Evangelicals before you have done). Be honest, Randy, you are butthurt over a meme that makes your precious Bible/God look bad. Not my problem. Perhaps it is time to rewrite the Bible, getting rid of all the offensive shit. Man, Thomas Jefferson would be proud.
Your house is on fire (spiritually) and if you don’t truly put your trust in Jesus Christ soon you will be burning for eternity and will remember all the times you mocked and rejected Jesus Christ.
Why is it that Evangelicals always threaten me with hellfire and brimstone? You know I am an atheist. You know I don’t believe in the existence of God/Jesus/Heaven/Hell. What’s the point of threatening me with a place I do not fear nor do I believe exists?
Yes, I reject Jesus, and, at times mock the very dead, not-resurrected, not-virgin born, not-miracle working son of God. However, I would bet that I have read and studied the Bible, won more souls, and done more good works, than you have. Shall we have a dick measuring contest? I’m John Holmes, baby, when it comes to good works and loving Jesus. I spent most of my life, fifty years, devotedly following Jesus and following his teachings. Even now, I am a kind, decent, thoughtful person (though I have no patience for Christian assholes). Are you saying that the totality of my good works matters not, that the only thing that matters is me believing the right things? Are you not, then, preaching a gospel of “right belief”? What kind of monster is your God, Randy? Look at all the good works atheists, agnostics, pagans, Buddhists, and billions of non-Christians do. Yet, because they refuse (or out of ignorance, fail) to worship Randy’s God, when they die they will be consigned to the flames of Hell to be tortured by Randy’s God for eternity. If such a God existed, I wouldn’t worship him.
Richard Dawkins was right when he said:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
— (The God Delusion)
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received the following email from an Evangelical woman named Trese (Teresa) Drek. She totally ignored that I ask people to NOT send me emails like hers. Trese refuses to accept my story at face value. Why? She can’t square my story with her theological beliefs and personal experiences. This is a common problem Evangelicals have with me.
Here’s Trese’s email. All grammar and spelling in the original. My response is indented and italicized.
Hello Bruce,
Im writing to tell you ‘in love’ the truth …
Actually, you are writing to preach at me; to share your personal opinions and personal interpretations of the Protestant Christian Bible.
There’s no “love” in your email, just arrogance and self-righteousness. You can’t or won’t square my story with your peculiar theology, so instead you decide to attack me and trash my character. Instead of trying to honestly engage me, you chose to discredit me and call me a liar.
You had 50 yrs of “experience” as a fake christian who had a false conversion. You were never born again! Thus , you never had a deconversion. (“I know it must painful for you to read about my deconversion.”) That is my message to you in a nutshell.
What evidence, Trese, do you have for these claims? Outside of your own experiences and beliefs, that is? Think about all the people who heard me preach over the years. Think about all my Evangelical friends and colleagues in the ministry. Think about my Evangelical family members who are pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. All of these people observed my life up close, yet none of them ever said, “Bruce, you are not a real Christian.” Not one. In every way, my life said to everyone that I was a devout follower of Jesus (and by all means, you are free to seek out these people on the Internet and social media and ask them). Thus, I was either a master deceiver, or you, Trese. are full of shit. I’m going with the latter, as will the people who know me.
Why didnt the following verses ring true to you when ‘you decided’ you were ‘no longer a christian’?
The Father gives the heart of repentance and the measure of faith. Triune God is the author and finisher of ones faith. You never received real Godly repentance or real faith because those that do never leave!
“If I wanted to be a True Christian, I had to come forward to the front of the church, kneel at the altar, and pray a certain prayer. If I did these things, I would then be a Christian — forever. And so I did. ” ( this is the ‘Billy Graham way’ who was never a real christian either. )
Welp, there’s no God, so of course, I didn’t actually receive these things from him/her/it. Much like all Christians, including you, I was a product of indoctrination, conditioning, cultural experiences, and environmental factors.
I find it interesting that you cherry-picked one experience from my story to build this false narrative about me in your mind. Why not take my story as a whole? The answer, of course, is that doing so would destroy the caricature you built of me in your head.
Billy Graham was never a Christian? Really? I mean really?
1 John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”
2 Timothy 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Romans 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 6:65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”
John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.
Golly gee, I have never, ever read or studied these verses. *sigh* By the way, I have preached sermons from all of these verses. I preached a 100+ sermon series from the book of John.
Quoting Bible verses to me has no magical powers. The Bible is just words on pages, ink on paper. Do you have any evidence that suggests otherwise?
Isnt it amazing that a professed well read man can miss so many scriptures (or purposefully forget) that explain you and your newfound friends walking away?
Yes, I am well-read. Are you? As I mentioned above, I know these Scriptures quite well. Perhaps the real issue here is whether the Bible is what you claim it is: God’s inspired, inerrant, infallible Word. I would love to engage you on this subject. If I can disabuse of the notion that that Bible is inerrant or infallible, perhaps you can then see that your peculiar interpretations of the Bible don’t hold water.
Have you ever read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books? Ehrman is a New Testament scholar and historian at the University of North Carolina. I am confident that if you will read several of his books you will see that the Bible is not what you claim it is. Are you up to my challenge? I will even buy one his books and have it shipped to you. Won’t cost you a dime.
“Everywhere I look, I see agnostics and atheists who were once devoted followers of Jesus Christ. Pastors, youth directors, worship leaders, missionaries, deacons, evangelists, soulwinners, bus workers, and Sunday school teachers; on-fire, filled-with-the-Holy-Ghost Christians. Thousands of former followers of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords read this blog. Were all of these washed-in-the-blood Christians deceived, never having tasted the goodness of God? Would a scientist doing a study on this group conclude that they were false Christians? Of course not. In every way, they were once numbered among those who followed the lamb wherever he went. When Jesus said “follow me,” they cast their nets aside, forsook all, and followed him. No matter what they now are, the past cannot be erased by the wave of a magic theological wand.”
You quote me, yet don’t interact with what I wrote. Why is that? What I wrote above is a statement of fact based on thirteen years of interaction with countless former devout Christians; men and women who were pastors, youth directors, worship leaders, missionaries, deacons, evangelists, soulwinners, bus workers, and Sunday school teachers.
You expect me and the readers of this blog to accept your testimony of Christian faith at face value — and we do. If someone says “I am a Christian,” I believe them. Why can you not extend the same courtesy to former Christians? Why do you refuse to respect the life stories of others, dismissing them out of hand, all because of your theological beliefs?
Oh and by the way; “evangelical christianity” is for the most part ‘main stream apostate christianity’ today thus it is not the term fruit bearing discerning christians use for themselves ; myself included.
*sigh* If it walks, talks, and acts like an Evangelical . . .
You have been infected by the A.W. Pink virus. Pink was a 20th century Evangelical Calvinist. In his early years, Pink was a pastor and an evangelist. Over time, Pink become more and more disaffected by what he saw in Evangelical churches. Instead of taking a hard look at himself, Pink blamed others for his disaffection. Pink eventually stopped going to church, believing that no congregation was pure enough for him. He spent the remaining years of his life writing books and raging against Christians who believed differently from him.
There’s a cure for the A.W. Pink virus: self reflection and a willingness to accept people as they are, even those who believe differently from you.
“Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?””
My email glorifies my Lord Jesus Christ , true christianity that adheres the Gods word, and my entire church family who are those who are in Christ! It does so because my words to you are Christ’ truth written !
*sigh* I want to say that you are delusional, but then I remember that I once believed as you do. Yes, Trese, a never-saved preacher believed just like you. Ponder that for a moment.
“Always silent, Jesus. Why is that?”
Jesus speaks to mankind through his holy living scriptures . We speak to Jesus through our prayers. Why would a guy who “pastored” a church for 25 yrs expect Jesus to speak to him except through the holy scriptures?
Your comment reveals that you really don’t know your Bible very well. The Bible says that God speaks to us through creation, divine revelation (the Bible), the preaching of the Word, prayer, the sacraments, and personal interaction — the still small voice of God in our hearts. The Bible is replete with stories of God speaking directly to people. You do know that most Christians didn’t have a printed copy of the Bible for 1,500 years after the death of Christ. How did God speak to these Christians without the Bible?
You may print my email to you if you wish to! I used my real name and real email address. I am confident that if it is Gods will ; some of your readers will be drawn to the Father through scriptures provided. Scripture has a way into a mans soul like no other words written ever IF GOD IS DRAWING HIM! Perhaps , the Father will draw you to!
I assume you are a Calvinist. Most of the readers of this blog have read the Bible many, many times. Some of them were in the ministry for years. They are not ignorant of what the Bible says.
Let’s see if your magic book leads to the salvation of one person. If one regular reader, after reading your email, repents of their sins, and professes faith in Christ, I will stop blogging. There ya go, God and Trese, bring down your saving power on the deluded readers of this blog. Save them, Lord! In Jesus’s name, deliver them from darkness! We are waiting . . .
And when this doesn’t happen, Trese, are you willing to admit that you and your God are failures? Are you willing to admit that you and God are no match for skepticism, reason, and intellectual inquiry?
I deleted the remainder of Trese’s Bible quotations. I suppose I just damned some of you to hellfire and brimstone by not publishing the rest of the soul-saving verses. You were three verses away from eternal life. I’m sorry. I will see you in Hell.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I get a lot of emails and social media comments from Evangelicals. I’ve even had letters and books sent to my house. Some Evangelicals, thinking I am unreachable, have gone after my friends and wife on social media. What makes matters worse is that many of these zealots are cowards. They hide behind fake names and fake email addresses. They use VPNs or other IP masking software to make themselves “invisible” on the Internet. This way, they can say whatever they want without been called to account.
“Bob” is a good example of what I am talking about here:
Bruce when its all said and done , your angry. You can sense it in your writings. Dont bother emailing me back its not a real email. I just used it to send something to you because you set up all these walls and I wanted to get through. God is big enough to deal with it you just have to bring it to Him. Oh and my name isnt Bob.
Today, I received an email from an Evangelical man who used a fake or blocked email address to contact me:
Every human being regardless of age is ONE heartbeat away from eternity. The story you are about to read represents what will happen to every person who has ever lived. The people are fictional but the circle are very real! Tommy- Gideon and street evangelistRoy- youth group leader Ronnie- youth group memberSandy- youth group member Angela- Sandy’s cousin visiting for summer James – passerby at the parkMelissa- passerby at park Elder tanner – LDS missionary at parkElder Francos- LDS missionary at park Robert-executive at American atheists Rebecca-member of American atheists Joe- college professor and member of American atheists. Tommy is speaking at the park: Friends,God loves each and every one of you. He created you to have a personal relationship with him. However because of the willingly disobedience of one man and one woman sin entered mankind and separated mankind from Holy righteous God. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23 God loves you and sent his only begotten Son Jesus Christ to suffer and die for sins and he rose from the dead to give eternal salvation and forgiveness of sins to all who trust in him! “For I delivered unto you that first of all which I also received how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures “ 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 If you will admit you are a sinner and place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and him alone for eternal salvation receive his gift of eternal life you will be saved ! If you believe now go to God in prayer.Pray,“Lord God I know I am a sinner and I cannot save myself I believe that Jesus Christ died and rose again to give me eternal life and forgiveness of sins, Lord Jesus I receive you now I trust in you and you alone thank you for loving me forgiving me and saving me in Jesus name Amen” If you sincerely believe and are trusting in Christ please let Bro Roy or myself know we would love to visit with you more. Ronnie (thinking) I do under my sins! I know I am lost without Christ! I trust and accept him. (Ronnie speaks to Tommy and they pray together!) Sandy (thinking) I know I need Jesus. But I want to live a little I am going to wait awhile I am young snd have plenty of time. Angela (thinking) I believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again to save me I trust in you Jesus now! James and Melissa (talking). Is there any evidence of what he was preaching about? There could be a lot of ways to go to heaven! There’s Buddha and Mohammed and Confucius,etc. how are they any different from Jesus? Elder tanner (thinking) I have no peace. I know I cannot be good enough I believe Jesus Christ is God who became a human man and died and rose again to save me I trust you Jesus and you alone for eternal life. Elder Francos (thinking) there’s more to it than faith in Christ. Salvation must be earned through faithful service to the church of Jesus Christ of ladder day saints and water baptism. I will continue to work hard to achieve a place in the celestial kingdom. Robert (thinking) I feel strange and I’ve been foolish I ask you Jesus to please forgive me for my sins I accept you now and trust in you and you alone thank you for loving me forgiving me and saving me. Rebecca and Joe (talking). Christians are the most delusional people of all religions. There is no evidence of God or Christ. We might as well worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Everyone except the elders board a southbound bus. The elders are traveling by car. On the way around 10pm the bus has a blowout and skids all the way around out of control it hits the elders car head on instantly killing them! 😭 Then rolls down an embankment killing everyone on board! TommyRoyRonnie AngelaElder tannerRobert are all guided by angels into the most beautiful place that is so wonderful it cannot be described in words!
There is no pain! No sorrow! Only joy and peace and a loved beyond all human understanding! They are in the presence of Jesus Christ their Creator,Saviour and King! He welcomes them to heaven! There they join in worship and fellowship with everyone throughout history who has died in Christ as they wait until the day of the rapture of the church and marriage supper of the Lamb! It is so wonderful! The worship is greater than anything experienced in this sinful flawed world. Rebecca JoeElder francos James MelissaSandyAre all taken by a grotesque looking demon and cast into a deep dark pit full of fire and screaming! All begin crying!! And praying for water and for one more chance to accept Jesus. 😭 They painfully regret their decision to put off Christ thinking they had more time ! (Sandy) And vehemently reject him blinded by Satan (the atheists) And trust in “religion “ instead of Jesus (elder Franco) They will remember for all eternity the day they heard Tommy preach the gospel and invite them to accept Christ.
They will remember every time they heard the gospel and rejected Christ. They will remember every sin they committed! They will wish they were never conceived! They will be tormented in flames forever and will scream alongside every person who died outside of Christ in their sins eternally! 😭 Friend,The gospel is real! Your soul is eternal and you are only one heartbeat away from eternity. And one day you will bow before Jesus Christ and confess him as LORD. I hope he will be your Savior and not your judge! God bless
The use of certain emojis, saying “God bless” at the end, and certain language tendencies tell me that the writer of the above email is someone who has written me several times before — each time using a different name and email address.
A new trick that is sometimes used by zealots is using a real email address, but blocking me from responding to them. At first, I thought they were deleting their email accounts, but I found I could successfully send them email using a temporary mail service. Of course, there are ways for them to block temporary email addresses too.
Sometimes, I just want to send them gay porn or hot Santa pictures (though it is likely that they have such photos stored on their Windows 95 computers) to express my outrage over their emails. Of course, I refrain from doing so. I know that there is nothing I can do to keep such people from contacting me (without also keeping people I WANT to hear from contacting me).
These zealots sit in their homes and rage against anyone and everyone they disagree with. They are cowards, hiding their names, email addresses, and IP addresses. These lovers of Jesus hide behind their CRT computer monitors, free to attack and savage anyone who speaks ill of the dead (Jesus). Lost on them (or they don’t care) is how their behavior negatively reflects on Christianity. Why would any of us want to worship their God or attend church with them? These Holy Spirit-filled men and women are the worst possible advertisement for Christianity. If I had any desire to return to Christianity (and I don’t), I certainly would be turned away by the ugly, vile treatment I’ve recevied from people who allegedly follow the Prince of Peace. And to use “Dr.” David Tee/Theologyarcheology/David Thiessen as an example, he shows every time he comments that he doesn’t care one wit about what I or other unbelievers think of him.
This breed of Christian doesn’t really believe the teachings of the Bible; you know, the verses on righteous/holy speech and conduct before the world. Worse yet, they reveal for all to see that they aren’t even Christians.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The fruit (evidence) of the Holy Spirit [God living inside of you] is [present tense]: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.
Based on the aforementioned verses, these nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelicals do not evince evidence that they are filled with the Holy Spirit. This means they are not Christians, though they will strenuously assert that they are.
Want to evangelize atheists, agnostics, pagans, and other nonbelievers? How about showing with your words and conduct that you take seriously the teachings of Jesus; that you love your neighbor as yourself.
Evangelicals view atheists as their enemies. Let me remind them of what Jesus said in Matthew 5:43-48:
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Love, bless, do good towards, and pray for your enemies, Jesus told Evangelical Christians. If you don’t do so, you are not a child of God, says the Son of God. Further, he commands Evangelicals to be perfect, even as their Father in Heaven is perfect.
Rare is the Evangelical who practices these verses.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I wonder if the reason Bruce turned atheist is because he turned queer?
Sadly most people caught in the devil’s snare support the demonic atrocities of baby murder and sodomy.
Ballister is not the first Evangelical Christian to suggest that I became an atheist for perverse (in their minds) sexual reasons; that I am hiding a deep, dark secret about my sexuality. Refusing to accept my story at face value, Ballister and others like him concoct reasons in their demented minds why I “really” left Christianity. No matter what I tell them, they are certain that there is some other reason for my loss of faith, whether anger, hatred, disappointment, health problems, poverty, or a secret desire for cock.
Why do the JM Ballisters of the world always think there’s a sexual reason behind my deconversion? These are the same people who endlessly wage war against those who dare to fuck whomever, wherever, however, and whenever. Granted, Romans 1 does give them justification for their obsession with fucking. The Apostle Paul says that those given over to a reprobate mind (Bruce Gerencser) have illicit sexual desires and crave same-sex intercourse. (Is a blow job or a hand job intercourse? Inquiring minds want to know.) 🙂
Paul writes:
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. . . Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:26-28, 32)
The Message puts it this way:
Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches. Since they didn’t bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil . . . They know perfectly well they’re spitting in God’s face. And they don’t care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best! (Romans 1:26-28, 32)
These verses aptly portray how many Evangelicals view atheists. We are vile, evil people who spend our days molesting children, eating fetuses for dinner, and wantonly fucking our brains out at night. Never mind the fact that most atheists are every bit as moral and ethical as Evangelicals. Never mind the fact that many Evangelicals–turned-atheists are not much different from how they were in their Christian days (generally speaking). Sure, our morals and ethics have changed and evolved, but we are still kind, thoughtful, decent people. Sure, for most atheists, their politics have moved leftward, though it would be a huge mistake to assume that all atheists are Democrats, liberals, or pro-choice. I have several atheist friends who are Republicans, who voted for Trump. They love my atheism but hate my politics. Some atheists are even anti-abortion or believe in all sorts of woo. Atheism does not automatically convey to people sound reasoning skills.
For me personally, I am as liberal as they come. I am a democratic socialist, a pacifist, pro-choice, and a rainbow flag waving supporter of LGBTQ rights. I am so far to the left that I fell off the far edge of the flat earth. 🙂 Most local Democrats consider me way too leftist. While I do website work for the local Democratic party, party leaders, in general, are hesitant to embrace me. I’m in the family, but I’m the uncle everyone steers clear of. I will admit that I am somewhat standoffish towards local party officials. My viewpoints are so different from theirs that it is often hard to find common ground. The party is controlled by people my age and older. For a variety of reasons, they have been unable to attract younger adults such as my children. I have some suggestions if anyone wants to hear them. 🙂
Now to my sexuality. No, I am not queer, and neither am I bisexual. I am as heterosexual as they come, as is my wife. Outside of a same-sex moment with Billy K — he kissed me — at age fourteen, I’ve never had a sexual experience with a man. Sorry, there are no queers in my closet. I know, so disappointing. Lots of other stuff in my closet, so keep digging Evangelicals. You might even find my Great Preachers of the IFB porn stash — so-called men of God baring all for Jesus. 🙂
I suspect that if we look in the closets of Evangelicals such as Ballister, we will find all sorts of sexual secrets. My God, we might even find out that they do it cowgirl or doggie style. Such perversion will lead them straight to Hell. Only the missionary position for Evangelicals — straight, monogamous, boring heterosexual sex. Thus saith the Lord! Or James Dobson.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
JM Ballister, an Evangelical Christian who either deleted his email account or blocked me (coward), sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized.
Judas betrayed Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of silver.
Ballister begins his missive by telling me that Judas, a disciple of Christ, betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.
Judas is the betrayer of Jesus — worse than Hitler, in the minds of Evangelicals. I wonder if Ballister and his fellow Christians have bothered to look at the contradictions in the Biblical text on how/where Judas killed himself and what, exactly, the thirty pieces of silver were used for? Contradictions abound. So why should we trust anything the Bible says about Judas — or anything else, for that matter? If an inerrant book has one error, it is no longer inerrant.
The Bible calls Judas the “son of perdition.” Judas didn’t “choose” to betray Jesus. God chose him from before the foundation of the world to be the man who would betray the Son of God. Judas never had a chance to be saved. In fact, he couldn’t be saved. It would have been better if he had never been born. You see, Ballister forgets that I have actually read the Bible numerous times; that I spent thousands and thousands of hours studying the Word of God. I KNOW the story of Judas.
What did you and every other “former Christian” betray him for?
I can’t speak for other atheists, but I know exactly what I “betrayed” Jesus for: reason, skepticism, rationalism, science, freedom, and sleeping in on Sundays.
There is no such thing as a Christian “turned atheist”.
Memo to Evangelicals: just because you say something doesn’t make it so. Ballister denies what is right in front of him: an increasing number of devout Evangelical Christians are leaving the church and embracing atheism, agnosticism, Christian liberalism, or numbering themselves with those who are indifferent towards organized religion. We exist, and no amount of posturing and denial will change this fact.
Sadly they were never born again spiritually.
Ballister has a theological dilemma on his hands. He sees droves of committed followers of Jesus Christ exiting the church stage left — Christ-loving, sanctified, Holy Spirit-filled people — and he is befuddled by their departures. How can these things be? True Christian® Ballister says to himself. Unable to fit these people into his once-saved-always-saved theological box, Ballister concludes these Judases must never have been saved. Using the No True Scotsman Fallacy, Ballister dismisses out of hand millions of former Christians, labeling them liars and deceivers.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. Think, for a moment, about how many Christians I came in contact with. Thousands, including Evangelicals pastors, professors, evangelists, and missionaries. Some of these clerics were personal friends. Yet, not one of them EVER said that they thought I was unsaved. Not one. Either I was a master deceiver, tricking thousands of people into believing I was a God-called, born-again preacher of the gospel, or Ballister is full of shit. My money is on the latter.
Just like Judas.
Here’s the problem with Ballister’s Judas illustration: Judas was pre-ordained by God to betray Jesus. Therefore, Judas could not be saved. He was a reprobate from the beginning. Thus, if Evangelicals-turned-atheists are Judases, it is impossible for us to be saved. Thus, the blame for our unbelief rests on God — he made us this way. God chose to withhold his grace from us. Why? Who knows, but Ballister is blaming the wrong people. Evangelicals-turned-atheists are heathens today because, from before the foundation of the world, God determined they would be atheists. Perhaps Ballister should be emailing Jesus, and not me. Oh wait, Jesus is dead or has a Juno account.
Jesus loves you he never stopped and is waiting for you and many others here to come to him in true salvation
What a pathetic God Ballister serves. Jesus lurks in the shadows, helpless to save atheists and agnostics unless we come running to him. He could call out to us, but he says nothing. He could come running to us and miraculously save us from the wrath to come, but he has no legs. Everything an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God should be able to do, Jesus is helpless to do. How can it be said that Jesus loves us and has a wonderful plan for our lives, yet he either cannot or refuses to use his magical powers to bring us to saving faith? Instead, Jesus sends Christian Assholes like JM Ballister. Do better, Jesus, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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