Evangelical Email and Comments Archives

My Response to Evangelical Pastor David Langley

September 19, 2022 Evangelicalism 7 Comments

Last Friday, I received the following email from David Langley, a Baptist pastor in Owasso, Oklahoma. All grammar and spelling in the original

I really thought you may have something of Wisdom, I listened to all 31 minutes out of curiosity

The video in question is the talk I gave to the Secular Humanists of Western Lake Erie on April 19, 2022.

Video Link

It is not uncommon for first-time readers to start reading something I have written or start listening to one of the interviews I have given over the years and conclude that I am either a Christian or a man of “wisdom.” Alas, by the time they get to the end of the article/video/podcast, they find out that I am an atheist. Out goes the “value” and “wisdom” of my words. What possibly could an Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist say about God/Jesus/the Bible/Christianity that is wise or valuable, right? Instead of focusing on the message, people such as Langley focus on the messenger. Instead of wrestling with the question: is what Bruce says true? all they see is my atheism (or liberalism, socialism, humanism, pacifism). Because I am not part of their in-group, my words have little to no value.

that God is Real and You may give a second thought to what you seem to be “preaching” (yourself).

I am an atheist, so I reject Langley’s claim that “God is real” out of hand. If Langley would like to discuss his claim with me, I’m game. I should warn him that I have talked with hundreds of Evangelicals about their God claims. I have yet to hear an argument that was persuasive; that would cause me to return to Christianity. Maybe Langley’s arguments would be different, but I doubt it.

Langley thinks I should give a second thought to what I am preaching. What am I preaching, you ask? Self. I am ready, now, to sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.) Here’s the title of this blog: The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser: One Man’s Journey From Eternity to Here. The central focus of my writing is my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. This blog is, by design, a first-person account of my life. How could it be otherwise?

Evidently, I am not supposed to talk about myself; my life; my personal experiences. Yet, I suspect that Langley uses first-person stories in his sermons. Has he ever shared his testimony with someone? Does his church have a testimony time for church members to share what God has done for them?

I simply do not understand why Langley objects to me telling my story. If I wrote an autobiography, would he be okay with that? This blog is no different.

Humanism does look like we only care about humans. So whatever we say or do cannot be wrong.

Langley reveals that he doesn’t know much about humanism. While humanism is certainly human-centric, humanists care about all sorts of things. I wonder if Langley has ever had an actual in-depth conversation with a humanist? I suspect not. (Please see Are You a Humanist?)

Langley clumsily says that humanists don’t have a moral/ethical foundation for their lives; that without God, we live immoral lives where we do no wrong. This, of course, is patently untrue. I would be more than happy to have a moral dick measuring contest with Langley, if he is interested. I think he will find I live a moral and ethical life — all without God and the Bible.

Sir I do not want to offend you I am just wanting you to know this may not be the right path.

Langley never mentions why he thinks I am on the wrong path. Is it because I am an atheist or a humanist? Is it because I have no need for God/Christianity/the Bible? Perhaps Langley can clarify why he thinks I am on the wrong path. I think I know, but I don’t want to put words in his mouth.

I too have had many around me fail, go off the other way, then I realized we are HUMAN and FRAIL.

I assume “go off the other way” means leaving Christianity. Langley attributes deconversion to human frailty. While I cannot speak for other former Christians, I can say, for myself, that human frailty had nothing to do with my deconversion. In fact, my leaving Christianity required great strength. It would have been far easier for me to remain a Christian. It is not hard to be a Christian, part of a majority culture that believes in Jesus. Langley might want to walk in an atheist’s shoes before making such generalizations.

Further, I don’t consider my deconversion a “failure.” I assume Langley values intellectualism and rational thought. Maybe not. I am an atheist today because Christianity no longer made any sense to me. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) I weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. Langley did read three of my autobiographical posts, spending all of ten minutes doing so. Perhaps he will return to the WHY? page and actually do his homework, gaining a better understanding of my life and my deconversion from Christianity.

Do I hold HUMANS accountable, no but I do hold myself accountable.

Okay? As regular readers know, I am a big proponent of personal responsibility and accountability. Does Langley think I am blaming others for my loss of faith? I don’t know. Quite frankly, I found his email to be cryptic, and hard to understand. To the degree that certain people played a part in my deconversion, I hold them accountable. That’s how life works. That said, no one made me deconvert. I suffered a lot of trauma in my life, mostly at the hands of Bible-believing, filled-with-the-Holy-Ghost Christians. While I most certainly hold them accountable for what they did, they are not the reason I walked away from Christianity.

Please notice that I have not mentioned anything here that should offend,

Well, that’s up to me to decide, not Langley.

but with this message I am hoping that it will stir something up all those years you either preached without authority or you have left the authority that called you. thank you for allowing text messages here. have a great day.

Speaking of offense, Langley hopes that his email causes some sort of “stirring” in my life. I find his use of the word “authority” to be odd, but I suspect he means that I preached without being authorized by Christ (unsaved) or I left the authority (Christ) that called me. This, of course, is the conundrum for people such as Langley. Was Bruce Gerencser an unsaved preacher or is he a saved, but backslidden preacher? (I assume Langley believes in once-saved-always-saved, eternal security; that once a person is saved, he cannot fall from grace. Thus, I am either unsaved or backslidden.)

Langley said nothing in his email that would cause me to rethink my decision to divorce Jesus. I am not sure what he hoped to accomplish, but I thank him for emailing me.

A Sinner Saved by Reason,

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

My Response to Dr. David Tee’s Comment About the Trauma in My Life

September 7, 2022 Evangelicalism 21 Comments

What follows is my response to a comment left by Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, on the post titled Life with My Fundamentalist Baptist Grandparents, John and Ann Tieken. If you have not read this post, I encourage you to do so. That will give you the context necessary to understand Thiessen’s comment. My response is indented and italicized.

What a waste.

Right off the bat, Thiessen gets personal. He’s not talking about the post. He’s talking about me personally. I am a waste (useless). Thiessen has spent the past two years repeatedly making this claim with a variety of word choices. Regardless of the words he uses, Thiessen wants me to know that he views me as a useless, worthless human being. His goal in doing so is to cause psychological harm. Not to reach me, evangelize me, help me, but to ruin and destroy me. That he has been unable to so only fuels his continued assaults.

You do nothing but spread hatred towards people no one but you and your family have met. This is a travesty for several reasons.

The title of this blog is The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser: One Man’s Journey From Eternity to Here. This blog has always been autobiographical in nature; a place where I give a first-person account of my life. I am a writer and a storyteller, it’s what I do. People are free to love or hate my work. Thiessen, by his own volition, continues to read this site, even after promising never to do so again.
I have every right to tell my story, as I see it. Where my story intersects with other people, I am going to mention them by name, especially when they played an instrumental part in my life. I own every word I write. My grandparents, John and Ann Tieken materially affected my life, my mother’s life, my siblings’ lives, and Polly’s life. Fortunately, my children do not know or remember their great-grandparents. John and Ann caused horrific harm, and the only way I know to hold them accountable is to write about them. Scores of Evangelicals who attended church with John and Ann think they were wonderful people. And they were — to them. However, both of them had a dark, evil side, one that I know firsthand. All I know to do is tell my story. I will leave it to others to decide whether my words ring true. I know my words are truthful, but I can’t force people to see their truthiness. I suspect there are people who went to church with John and Ann who simply will not believe that I am telling the truth. There’s nothing I can do about that.

#1. it is only one side of the story

Yes, mine. This is an autobiographical blog. I write in the first person.

#2. the people you talk about can’t defend themselves

Correct, most of them are dead. Is Thiessen saying we can’t write about anyone who is dead? Would that include Jesus?

#3. the people you talk about do not know you are talking about them

Of course not, they are dead. My aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and cousins know I am “talking” about them, and as of today, not one of them has objected to this post. I have heard that my Evangelical uncle wants to talk to me about the importance of “forgiveness,” but I suspect that discussion will never happen. I haven’t spoken to him in almost 20 years. Among Christian family members, my atheism is a family scandal no one wants to talk about. We can add atheism to rape, child molestation, violence, and psychological manipulation to the list of things we don’t talk about. How ”bout them Cowboys?

#4. it is full of look at me, I am a victim attitude.

Unlike Thiessen who uses plurals when speaking of himself, I write in the first person singular — you know, the way we were taught to write in school.
As far as me having a “victim attitude,” I am a victim. It took over a decade of counseling for me to finally admit that I was a victim; that I have had a lot of trauma in my life. I always thought that victim and trauma were words to describe others, not me. Finally admitting that these words apply to me has made a big difference in my life; allowing me to deal with some awful things that have happened in my life (some of which I have not shared with readers, or my wife for that matter).

It is just narcissism at its best. ‘Oh I am a victim, woe is me’ and all you are trying to do is glean sympathy from people. No one cares about ‘your story’ as it is textbook neurosis and only you are perfect in it.

Thiessen’s hostility is at a fever pitch now. His goal is to belittle and wound. He has failed on both counts.
Is writing about my life cathartic? Absolutely. Do I write to gain sympathy from others? No. Do I appreciate it when people express love and kindness toward me? Yes. I also find it gratifying that some people find my writing helpful, including people who have suffered trauma in their lives. When I write about chronic illness and chronic pain, people who are suffering find my words constructive. The same can be said for ex-Evangelicals and ex-Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. They value my insight, my insider knowledge, and my willingness to honestly talk about my life as a pastor. How are any of these wrong?

You are not helping anyone because you keep them in the same attitude you have hatred towards others and you never solve any problems. You just help people sin more.

Let me see if I can sum up what Thiessen is saying:
I am not helping anyone.
I never solve any problems.
I encourage people to hate people who harmed them.
I just help people sin.
Thiessen, of course, provides no evidence for his claims. I suspect he will search in vain for someone who would say I encouraged them to hate people who harmed them or I helped them “sin.”
As far as “solving problems,” It is not my job to solve anyone’s problems but my own. I am more than happy to help in any way I can, but each of us must solve our own problems or seek out professionals who can help us.
Thiessen loves to assert that I don’t “help” anyone. I will leave it to others to say whether I helped them. I do know that thousands of people read this blog, and I do know that people say I helped them, as evidenced by the countless emails and social media messages I have received over the years.
Thiessen operates a blog that virtually no one reads. Thiessen populates his site with my content and Ben Berwick’s content. He writes very little original content. Perhaps Thiessen would like to share how many people he has actually helped in the past year? How many emails has he received from readers asking for his help? Thiessen says God reads his blog, but the Big Kahuna has never left a comment or sent him an email. No, what’s going on here is envy and jealousy. Thiessen can’t for the life of him figure out why people love my writing, but don’t love his. He can’t figure out why people comment on my posts, but not his. Why does Bruce, the Atheist get all the attention and Derrick, the Fundamentalist gets none? Let me tell Thiessen why that is. Derrick, read your comments. Read your previous posts about me. Read the vicious, nasty emails you sent me. In your own words, you will see the reasons why people don’t like you. God doesn’t even like you, and he likes all sorts of assholes. Want to change that? Stop being a judgmental prick; an asshole; a hateful, mean-spirited person. In other words, Derrick, repent!

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical-Turned-Atheist Bruce Gerencser Responds to a God-Fearing, Bible-Believing Christian From Michigan

September 1, 2022 Evangelicalism 12 Comments

Earlier today, an Evangelical Christian named Richard left the following comment on the post titled Is it Possible to Reform the IFB Church Movement? Richard’s words are emboldened. All spelling and grammar are in the original.

Bruce, as a God fearing bible believing Christian in Michigan in the same areas you left… I want to thank you for your honesty and for being instructional to me.

Richard wants me and the readers of this blog to know that he is a God-fearing, Bible-believing Christian who lives near Pontiac, Michigan. Based on the buzz words he used, I think it is safe for me to conclude that he is a Fundamentalist.

You are an unabashed Apostate that has embraced his decision. I had left the Church and on was on the path of becoming an apostate myself when God intervened. One thing that always bothered me since then is WHY I was on the path of becoming an Apostate, and also how someone as yourself could become an apostate. You were an Enigma that contradicted my IFB upbringings of “Once Saved always saved”. It was the Bible and God’s word that showed me my error (or incomplete understanding)… 1John 2:19. and also Tares and Wheat describes your condition.

Richard recognizes that I am an unabashed apostate. Of course, I wear many other labels: agnostic atheist, humanist, socialist, pacifist, liberal, progressive, and circumcised Gentile. Richard, however, wants to focus on my apostasy; my denial of central claims of Christianity.

At one time, Richard considered people such as myself to be enigmas, people who didn’t fit in his narrow, defined theological box. However, God has since shown him the light, and now he’s arrived on this blog to set me straight.

Richard believes that I John 2:19 describes my life:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The Message puts it this way:

They left us, but they were never really with us. If they had been, they would have stuck it out with us, loyal to the end. In leaving, they showed their true colors, showed they never did belong.

Wow, no Christian has never, never told me this before! OMG, I never was a Christian. Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) I have no idea how much of my writing Richard has read, but whatever he has read, he has concluded from it that I was never a Christian. Nothing in my story suggests that Richard is right, but why let facts get in the way of a strawman?

Your are (now) no more a mystery to me than is Judas who worked Directly with Jesus. If Judas could be an apostate, certainly someone as yourself who was fed a tainted perspective of Christianity from a dysfunctional family and controlling hypocritical “religious” leaders is possible! But both cases are the same… “They were never with us”.

Notice how Richard frames my life: I was fed a “tainted perspective of Christianity from a dysfunctional family and controlling, hypocritical religious leaders.” Richard provides no evidence for his claims. Using a nit comb, he found a few lice in my story and concluded that I am no different from Judas who betrayed Jesus. Instead of taking the time to comprehensively read my writing and interact with me personally, Richard has judged my life and found it wanting. Nothing I can say at this point will change his mind, so I won’t try, except to say, Richard, go fuck yourself.

You don’t offend me, you only prove God’s word to me to be true. You offer comfort to fellow apostates, but you also offer validation of God’s word to true believers, even if that is not your intent.

I am glad I can be of help. You also provide validation to me and the readers of this blog; that you are a judgmental asshole.

You might not know this, Richard, but many of my readers are Christians. Not your brand of Christian, but Christians nonetheless. I suppose you will consign them to the Lake of Fire too.

Bruce, consider this… If I am wrong and self deluded and you are right, I suffer no damage after I die. If I am self deceived, I still count the Peace I attribute to Jesus and Gods Grace as doing far more good in my life than what I was without it and pass onto oblivion in ignorant bliss. But If the Bible is right, if God is real, it is not the same for you. You will hear those terrible words.. “depart from me, I never knew. you” as you pass on into eternity in outer darkness where the only question left is, will you be a wailer or a gnasher…

Richard attempts to use Pascal’s Wager and miserably fails. Evidently, he wants me to pretend to be a Christian; to fake it until I make it. Richard provides no evidence for his claims, yet he just expects me to believe. Fine, I believe. Praise Jesus, I’m headed for Heaven when I die. Boy, that was easy.

Richard presupposes that his peculiar brand of Christianity is true; that it will be his God that will be on the throne of Heaven when he arrives someday. What if he is wrong? What if he gets to Heaven and finds Allah on the throne or Buddha? Better yet, what if he arrives in Heaven and finds out that atheism was the one true religion; believing in Jesus sends a person straight to Hell (also called Mar-a-Lago)?

As is common with Fundamentalists, Richard lacks curiosity. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.) He fails to consider his own atheism or the fact that his being wrong could have real-world consequences. Richard thinks that living according to his interpretations of the Bible is preferable, even if God doesn’t exist. This is patently untrue. The Bible is inherently anti-human. Richard Dawkins was right when he described the Old Testament God this way:

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

This is the God Richard wants me to worship.

The New Testament God is no better. One need only ponder God offering his son as a blood sacrifice for the behavior of others and the violence he will rain down upon the earth as recorded in the book of Revelation to see that this God is unworthy of worship too.

Richard, if you are reading this, you worship an evil God. Even if he was real, and he’s not, I wouldn’t worship him.

That brings me no Joy I don’t want that for you. I believe you were made in God’s image and loved by God so much that he Died for you before you denied him. I don’t want you to end up separated from God for eternity, but it’s not up to me. You can equally find both high profile apologetics that have made arguments defending the bible and also die hard Apostates breaking apart the bible to fit their narrative… But God is the ultimate author of our (your) faith.

And I know every argument. There’s nothing new under the sun, and that includes apologetical arguments. If Richard has read my writing, he knows that I reject the central claims of Christianity. I have weighed them in the balance and found them wanting. If zealots such as Richard want to win me back to Jesus, they are going to have to come up with better evidence and arguments. Until then, I cannot and will not believe. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)

Richard says that God is the author of faith; that if I ever receive saving faith, it will come from God. Fine. Why, then, did Richard bother to comment on this site? Why did he bother to judge my life? Surely, God knows where I live. He knows my email address and cellphone number. God can give me faith any time he wants. It’s up to him, so I’m waiting. I won’t, however, hold my breath.

Bruce, I love you and I don’t want you to die in your sin.

No, you don’t love me. You don’t even know me. Stop with the syrupy, cheap Evangelical “love.” My love is reserved for my wife, my children, their spouses, my grandchildren, my friends, and the Cincinnati Reds and Cincinnati Bengals. I love good food, traveling, and writing. I even love many of the people who frequent this blog, including my editor. But you, Richard? I don’t know you. I know nothing about you. You may be a lovable person, but based on your comment above, you are not someone I am interested in loving. Instead, I pity you. You live in a closed-off world, a world walled off from all the wonderful atheists, humanists, pagans, Buddhists, Muslims, Unitarians, liberal Christians, and LGBTQ people, to name a few, in the world. All you see is up or down, in or out, saved or lost, Heaven or Hell. My world is much broader than that; a wild, woolly, wonderful — and yes, dangerous — world.

Let me give you a piece of advice, Richard; advice I have given to thousands and thousands of people over the years:

You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.

Be well, Richard.

Saved by Reason,

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

John Roden Tries to Evangelize Me and Fails

August 11, 2022 Evangelicalism 8 Comments

Recently, I received a one-link email from a Christian man named John Roden:

https://www.angelfire.com/va/sovereigngrace/personaltestimony.html

Sigh, Angelfire. So 1990s. The link Roden sent me was to a page detailing his testimony. I perused Roden’s testimony, concluding that he has bought into the Calvinistic gospel of sovereign grace. His main page revealed a plethora of articles on Calvinism.

I replied to Roden, asking him “What’s your point in sending me a link to your alleged conversion story?”

Roden fired back:

My heart goes out to you, dear friend, for I was once also hardened against the truth as you are at this time. Yet God was pleased to be merciful to me, and I pray that while reading my testimony of the grace of God and the Scriptures quoted and referenced therein, God might be pleased to also grant you repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21).
Friend, you may laugh, and say there is no such place as Hell, but I would caution you to weigh seriously the dying words of Thomas Paine, the renowned American author and infidel whose book, Age of Reason, exerted considerable influence in his day against belief in God and in the Bible. When he came to his last hour before death in 1809, Thomas Paine cried out,
“I would give worlds, if I had them, that Age of Reason had not been published. O Lord, help me! Christ, help me! O God, what have I done to suffer so much! But there is no God! But if there should be, what will become of me hereafter! . . . If ever the Devil had an agent, I have been that one!”
Then, my friend, consider the last words of Voltaire, the noted 18th Century French infidel and talented writer who wrote much in his day against the Bible. He said of Christ, “Curse the wretch!” He once boasted, “In 20 years Christianity will be no more. My single hand shall destroy the edifice it took 12 apostles to rear!” However, the physician who attended him in his final moments before death said he cried out desperately:
“I am abandoned by God and man! I will give you half of what I am worth if you will give me six months life. Then I shall go to Hell; and you will go with me. O Christ! O Jesus Christ!”
Contrast the tragic death scene described above with the last words of Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899), the American evangelist who spoke these words with joy as he was about to enter eternity:
“I see earth receding; heaven is opening. God is calling me.”
David Brainerd, whose remarkable evangelistic work among the American Indians still inspire the people of God who read about him, was heard to whisper at the moment of death,
“He will come, and will not tarry. I shall soon be in glory, soon be with God and His angels!”
Saul of Tarsus was one of the worst enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ, yet God was merciful to this one who–like you–hated Him. Saul–after his conversion–became known as the Apostle Paul, who wrote 13 epistles of the New Testament. The story of his miraculous conversion may be read in Acts 9.
A sinner who also received mercy
(Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:4-10),
John Roden

Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.)

First, Roden ignored my requests on the Contact page, showing disregard and disrespect towards me. If someone asks you not to contact them and you do it anyway, you are being disrespectful. Roden likely thinks “God” told him to contact me. I guess rudeness is okay if you are hearing voices in your head.

Second, Roden ignores the fact that I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, a Calvinist for many of those years. Does he actually think that quoting Bible verses at me will actually make any difference? Does he really think me reading his testimony will cause me to fall on my knees and confess that Jesus is my Lord and Savior? Not a chance. I wonder if he bothered to read any of the posts on the WHY? page. I suspect not.

Third, Roden deliberately used alleged quotes by Thomas Paine and Voltaire that have no basis in fact. (Please see The Vindication of Thomas Paine by Robert Ingersoll and The Fantasy of the Deathbed Conversion by Lawrence Krauss.) All one has to do is consult God (Google) to learn that these quotes are apocryphal, lies, or in dispute. Like many Evangelicals, Roden mines the Internet for quotes that prove his point: that atheists die screaming for God and Christians die peaceably praising the dead Jesus. Having watched a number of faithful followers of Jesus die, I can tell you that very few of them had Jesus’ name on their lips when they drew their last breaths. Some of them were fearful, despite all the Bible promises they heard over the years. And some died without saying a word, as their brains and hearts shut down. There’s literally nothing that can be learned from the words uttered by people on their deathbeds. To Roden I say, stick around, I hope to have quite a sermon for people on the day I slip out to the crematorium. Maybe Polly will record it so everyone will know what the infidel and apostate Bruce Gerencser had to say when dying.

Before I could respond to Roden’s email, he fired off another missive from God:

While there were apostates from the Christian faith in the apostolic era–and in our day such as yourself–there are also notable converts to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ from atheism. One such is Lee Strobel. Are you familiar with his story, and his book, “The Case for Christ“?
A sinner who received mercy
(Titus 3:5),
John Roden
P.S.–Another book you might consider investigating is “Evidence for the Historical Jesus: Is the Jesus of History the Christ of Faith,” by Gary Habermas.

Sigh. Apologists always bring up Strobel. His books are apologetical pablum. His atheist claim has been widely disputed. And even if he was, so what? What does his conversion prove? Very few atheists convert to Evangelicalism. Even fewer atheists, who were once Evangelical Christians, return to Christianity. It happens, but not very often. And even if it does, so what? If Roden wants to look at statistics, he might want to look at the increasing number of people who are leaving “Biblical” Christianity. the fastest growing “religion” in America is the NONES — people who have no interest in organized religion. Roden might want to consider why this is happening. One can only hope that Roden looks in the mirror.

As far as Habermas is concerned, color me unimpressed. I wonder if Roden agrees with Habemas’ reductionist view of the gospel? I don’t need to read another book. I’ve likely read more theological tomes than Roden. I know all I need to know. I remain unconvinced that the central claims of Christianity are true. I am more than happy to look at new evidence for Christianity, but I don’t expect any to be coming. Christianity is a dead, text-based religion. Anyone who can read can find out all they need to know about Christianity.

Roden is a Calvinist. Why all the verbiage and book recommendations? Isn’t it up to God to save me if I am one of the elect? Why the need for middlemen like Roden? God knows my email address, cellphone number, and where I live. He can reach me at any time. No need to send Christian assholes to slip me a message from Jesus. I’m waiting God . . .

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical Man Who Stayed at A Holiday Inn Express Last Night Diagnoses My Health Problems

July 23, 2022 Evangelicalism 16 Comments

Proponents of chronic Lyme essentially just dismiss the scientific evidence, and instead resort to anecdotal evidence of a subjective response to treatment in some patients. As would be expected, when a group has a persistent belief that experts reject due to lack of scientific evidence, or even evidence of lack of efficacy, conspiracy theories proliferate. In this case the usual “Big Pharma” conspiracy won’t work, because the treatment being offered is pharmaceuticals. So a new enemy was invented, insurance companies. They were made the bogeyman for not wanting to pay for multiple courses of IV antibiotics.

— Dr. Steven Novella, Chronic Lyme Disease — Another Negative Study

Today, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Jacob. Jacob read two posts on this site, How Dare I Badmouth IFB Evangelist CT Townsend! Says Fundamentalist Christian and the About page. Jacob spent nine minutes reading my writing before emailing me. He read none of my autobiographical material, nor did he bother to perform searches on the subjects mentioned in his email. No need, right? I am sure Jacob felt led by God to email me. After all, he knows exactly what is wrong with me physically and psychologically; that both my doctors and I are one hundred percent WRONG!

My response to Jacob’s email is indented and italicized.

Hello brother,

I am not your brother. I did learn last year that I have half-brothers and half-sisters, but I doubt you belong to my newfound family. I suspect you are using the word “brother” in a Christian sense; as in a “brother in Christ.” In what way am I your brother? I am an atheist. I am an enemy of Christ. I reject the central claims of Christianity. I am an apostate and a reprobate. I believe your religion is a cult. According to your true “brothers,” I am a tool of Satan, used by the Evil One to lead many people away from Jesus.
You spent less than ten minutes on this site. You don’t know me at all. So, let’s dispense with the familial language, okay?

First, I came to your page from your topic on CT Townsend. I just finished a 5 day youth camp and even though I am a Christian, I know much of what you had to say to be true. It’s sensationalism. They intentionally get people in their emotions and then pounce.

Yet, you are still a part of this. Why?

With that said, I only contacted you to share something with you that I’m certain you will toss aside and ignore: Many of your mental and physical ailments are caused by one thing: Lyme+ I understand the denial that comes when I say this, and I understand why. However, I am 100% certain that this is the truth.

Jacob is an evangelist for chronic Lyme disease, a diagnosis that has no scientific foundation. Please understand that lyme disease and chronic lyme disease are two different things. Please read the following for more information:
Chronic Lyme disease: Fake diagnosis or pseudo-diagnosis, NOT fake disease by Dr. David Gorksi
Avoid prolonged antibiotics for “Chronic Lyme” by Scott Gavura, BScPhm, MBA, RPh
Chronic Lyme Disease – Another Negative Study by Dr. Steven Novella
Does Everybody Have Chronic Lyme Disease? Does Anyone? by Dr. Harriett Hall
I have been reading the work of Gorski, Novella, and Hall for years. Proponents of science-based medicine, I find them to be credible experts on a wide array of medical issues. I have had the same primary care doctor for twenty-six years. I also regularly see specialists for the various diseases that afflict me. I have had extensive work-ups at the University of Michigan, the Toledo Clinic, and Parkview Medical Center in Fort Wayne. I have been poked, prodded, and scanned. CT and MRI scans from head to toe. Blood draws 3-4 times a year. Down the mouth and up the ass, doctors have looked at the internal workings of my body.
Yet, Jacob, who has no medical training outside of the ability to do a Google search and read feels duty-bound to offer a complete stranger on the Internet unsolicited, unwanted, unneeded, and most certainly, not appreciated medical advice.

I recommend listening to videos from the doctors studying this stuff like Dr Dietrich Klinghardt PhD. There is an excellent documentary called “Under Our Skin”. Please don’t just dismiss what I’m saying, but instead dig into it.

I will leave it to readers to do searches on the things mentioned by Jacob. I spent a few minutes doing so. I read enough to lead me to conclude that I am not going to waste my time. I’m confident that my doctors are doing the best they can for me. Yes, I wish they could magically heal me, but that’s not in the cards. I refuse to chase after woo and nonsense, only to be disappointed in the end. Years ago, I chased the fibromyalgia rabbit down numerous trails. I ended up in some crazy places. Who doesn’t want to feel better, right? My doctors do what they can to ease my suffering; to maintain or improve my quality of life. At this point in my life, that’s fine. I expect my doctors to do all they can to help me, but I know they aren’t miracle workers. Believe me, they would LOVE to fix me. Imagine the medical journal article they could write if, through their expertise, all my symptoms went away! This, of course, ain’t going to happen.

I went from early onset dementia(among many other things) at 28 years old, to feeling great and living my life again. There is no such thing as “fibromaylagia”. It is a blanket term used to describe symptoms of a chronic bacterial infection. DNA connexions has a wonderful test that will pick up these infections unlike the CDC guideline test that looks for an immune response. These infections infiltrate our body and essentially turn off our immune system to themselves. So, the test will always show negative if not caught early enough.

I have had fibromyalgia for almost as long as Jacob has been alive. I know this disease inside and out. And I know how to spell the damn word. 🙂 Jacob has been convinced by peddlers of woo and anecdotal evidence that fibromyalgia (and chronic fatigue syndrome) is not a real disease. Twenty-five years ago, this sentiment was more common in the medical community, but no longer. I haven’t been treated by a fibro-denier in years (and once I find out they are, I fire their asses).
Jacob thinks I have chronic Lyme disease, not fibromyalgia. Never mind the fact that I have been tested several times over the years for Lyme disease (especially when I first started having symptoms). Jacob is an Evangelical, so much like resolutely believing the Bible is inerrant and infallible, he believes the gospel of chronic Lyme disease. No amount of evidence will convince him that it is wrong — not even a peer reviewed double-blind study. He once was lost and now he is saved; he once was sick, and now he is healed. Here an anecdote, there an anecdote, everywhere an anecdote, JUST BELIEVE!

Good luck and I know you don’t believe in God, but I’ll pray for you, just in case you’re wrong:)

Fuck you, Jacob. You refuse to accept any of my story at face value. You stupidly and ignorantly — not really knowing anything about my medical conditions — reject my health claims. Then, you conclude your email by saying that you are going to pray that I get saved because you know that I am wrong about that too. Evidently, in Jacob’s world, no part of my story is my own. He, alone, is the arbiter of what is true. Imagine if I did the same to Jacob, trashing his beliefs and experiences? Why, he would be outraged. But, I don’t do such things. I accept the stories of others at face value. And I most certainly don’t question the medical care of others. If asked, I will answer questions and give practical care advice. After all, having fibromyalgia (and gastroparesis) has taught me a few things about the disease. I read the relevant literature when new reports and books are released. It would be impossible for me not to do so. When news headlines scream NEW TREATMENT FOR FIBROMYALGIA, GASTROPARESIS, OR CHRONIC PAIN, I am going to get a shitload of texts, emails, and social media messages.

I am sure Jacob thought he was doing me a favor by sharing his medical “expertise” with me. I am sure he thought I would be “grateful.” Hopefully, this is a lesson well learned for the young man. Don’t email strangers on the Internet; especially cranky curmudgeons; especially someone who has been seriously ill from COVID -19 and is currently bedfast; especially someone who was two weeks into topical chemotherapy treatment for cancer on his nose when he tested positive for COVID; especially someone who battles nausea, vomiting, and unrelenting pain every day of his life; especially someone who hasn’t seen his grandkids or gotten laid lately. 🙂

Saved by Reason,

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, Do You Believe God is Able and Willing to Heal You from Gastroparesis, Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Degenerative Spinal Disease?

June 29, 2022 Evangelicalism 28 Comments

Today, I received an email from an Evangelical Christian named Karrie. Karrie is a student/professor/employee at The University of Tulsa in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Karrie read all of two posts before emailing me:

Karrie spent a total of five minutes reading my writing before emailing me. While she accessed the WHY? page, there’s no record that she clicked on any post. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.) As her email below will show, Karrie seems to know that I have health problems. Since neither of the posts she read mentions these things, it’s possible she has read other work by me.

Here’s what Karrie had to say:

Hello Bruce, do you believe that God is able and willing to heal you of the sickness you are suffering?

Most people who read this blog know I have serious health problems. I have (in the order of diagnosis) fibromyalgia (1996), osteoarthritis (2000), gastroparesis (2020), and degenerative spinal disease (2021). I also take medications for high blood pressure, diabetes, an irregular heartbeat, low potassium, and low B-12. I am anemic, and since being diagnosed with gastroparesis, I am having problems with my eyes. I was nearsighted for almost fifty years. I am now farsighted, with every eye exam I have (six in the past eighteen months) different from the others. Quite frankly, the only time I wear glasses is when we go out on the town, and this is mainly because I am vain. I stopped driving two and a half years ago due to declining motor function. I walk with a cane, and when covering longer distances, I must use a wheelchair. Throw in peripheral neuropathy in my feet, legs, and hands, and I spend every moment of every day fatigued and in pain. I take numerous medications to combat these symptoms, but unless I want to sleep all the time and be a lobotomized robot, all that narcotics, NSAIDs, and high-powered muscle relaxers do is keep me from wanting to kill myself. And some days, these drugs don’t work very well; those days I wish I could die. Currently, both of my hips are inflamed. I have gotten steroid injections, to no avail. No explanation for the inflammation. I just woke up one morning and my hips hurt. Gastroparesis, an incurable stomach disease, causes unrelenting nausea, bouts of vomiting, and horrific — and I mean horrific — bowel problems. (Yes, I eat right and take fiber supplements, so don’t, please don’t, for the love of Loki, do NOT email me your unsolicited medical advice. I have a team of doctors who care for me. Unless you are Dr. House, please keep your opinions to yourself. I am being nice. Email me anyway and I will set your house on fire.) Next week, I see a dermatologist. I have had three bouts of skin cancer, so I must see a dermatologist every six months. I have several growths that will likely need to be removed. I also have a purplish spot on my right breast that concerns me. I’ve had pneumonia twice, battled bronchitis for years, and almost died from mononucleosis in 1991.

I have given you my medical history so you will understand that I have had health problems since I was a teenager. My wife, Polly, and I married in July 1978. While she remembers a strong-as-an-ox, athletic Bruce, she doesn’t remember a time when I wasn’t battling some sort of health problem. When we were younger, I still had the proverbial tiger by the tail. Those days are long gone. The tiger now has me by the neck and is swinging me back and forth. There will come a day when he will finally succeed in ending my life. Not today, but maybe tomorrow, next week, or next year. I have no illusions about living a long life. My goal on any given day is to get up, move, do a few things around the house, write, and collapse on the couch watching TV before I haltingly and slowly make my way to the bedroom, hoping to get a few hours of sleep. (Typically, I sleep in 90-minute to two-hour segments. Sleep, wake up, sleep, wake up, hoping to get six or so hours sleep.) The goal is quality of life, not length of life. Imagine every time you eat the first feeling you get is not pleasure, but wanting to vomit. This is my life. Fortunately, I take a medication (typically used for chemotherapy patients) that curbs the urge to upchuck — usually in minutes. On those days it doesn’t work? I worship the porcelain God, violently offering it the contents of my stomach. Ain’t life grand. 🙂

Karrie fails to understand that virtually ALL of my health problems can be traced back to the days when I was a devout Evangelical Christian and a pastor. I prayed countless prayers to God, asking for strength and deliverance. These prayers were met by indifference and silence. In 2008, I left Christianity and embraced atheism. While the reasons for my deconversion are many, one reason I divorced Jesus is his indifference towards my suffering and that of billions of humans (and animals). God’s silence and apathy led me to conclude that he/she/it doesn’t exist; that he/she/it is a mythical being who is unable to do anything for me or any other human being.

So, to answer Karrie’s question: do I believe the Evangelical God is able and willing to heal me of the sickness I am suffering? The answer is an emphatic NO!

Evangelicals have had fifteen years to show me compelling evidence for the existence of their deity. None has done so. Outside of quoting Bible prooftexts, pointing to creation, or using lame philosophical arguments, no satisfactory evidence for the existence of God has been provided. Karrie makes no attempt to provide evidence for the existence of her peculiar God. She assumes I know that her deity is the one true God. I don’t. And even if she could provide such evidence, it still doesn’t follow that her God can and will heal me of gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, and degenerative spinal disease. I have watched scores of Christians and unbelievers alike horribly suffer and die. I have stood by the bedsides of devoted lovers of Jesus as they draw their last breaths. I have watched them writhe in horrific pain, with God nowhere to be found. You see, from my seat in the atheist pew, the problem of suffering, along with the problem of evil and the hiddenness of God, are insurmountable problems for Christians. I have heard every possible argument regurgitated by Christian apologists, and all of them come up short. You just don’t want to believe, Evangelicals say, but this is patently untrue, as I shall show in a moment.

Here’s a promise I will make to Karrie: if her God instantaneously heals me, without medical intervention, of gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, and degenerative spinal disease I will “believe.” The ball is in your court, Jesus. You are allegedly the “Great Physician.” Work your magic, and I will believe. The Bible records stories about you healing all sorts of people from serious diseases. You even raised the dead. And believe me Jesus, I am not too far away from needing resurrection. After I am dead and burnt into ashes that will be cast into the waters of Lake Michigan, perhaps Polly will ask you to recombine my molecules and give me a young, healthy body. That way, she can have some sexy eye candy by her side. 🙂 Do either of these things, Jesus, and I will believe, and I suspect Polly will believe too.

Of course, no healing or resurrection will be forthcoming. Expecting Jesus to do either of these things is akin to me going to my mom’s grave and asking her pop out of the ground fully clothed and with no bullet hole in her chest so we could share a cup of instant coffee (mom’s favorite) and have a chat. Well, we’d share a cup of coffee right after Mom lights up a Virginia Slim. “Butch, I have been hankering for a smoke for thirty years.” 🙂

To Karrie, I say, “with God all things are possible” and “if you ask anything in his name he will do it.” If you are as connected with the triune God of the Bible as your email suggests, surely God will answer your prayer for the healing of the unrepentant atheist Bruce Gerencser. Think of all the souls that will be saved if your God healed me. Why, I suspect my healing would cause reverberations across the world. “Is anything too hard for God?” Karrie, if Jesus can resurrect Lazarus from the dead, surely he can heal a lowly atheist who really, really, really wants to “believe.”

With bated breath, I await my healing. Time is running out . . .

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical Woman Thinks I Need to Return to the Place Where I Walked Away from Jesus and Pick Up Where I Left Off

June 28, 2022 Evangelicalism 4 Comments

Today, an Evangelical (IFB?) woman named Donna Flowers came to this site and read one post: Emotionally Manipulating IFB Church Members through Music and Preaching Styles before sending me an email. Afterward, she read the post titled Why I Hate Jesus. Flowers read none of my autobiographical material, showing the curiosity of a dead armadillo in the middle of a rural Texas road on a hot July day. That’s “none” for you who are metaphor-challenged. 🙂

Here’s what Flowers had to say:

My heart goes out to you. I will pray for you that you will turn your life around and go back to the place you decided to walk off from Jesus in your Christian walk. Jesus loves you! Have a blessed day!

Not much to respond to here. I’m inclined to just say “sigh” (Why I Use the Word “Sigh”) and move on, but it’s Monday so I am raring — well actually in a lot of pain and fighting nausea — to respond to several emails and comments I have received in recent days.

Flowers’ email is dripping with Evangelical “love.” You know the kind: cheap, superfluous, and conditional. Her “heart” goes out to “me.” Goes out to who, exactly? Flowers made no attempt to read anything about me besides the two posts mentioned above. She made no effort to understand my story; how and why I became an atheist. Instead, she offers cheap Christian love, the equivalent of “I’m praying for you.”

Based on what she wrote, Flowers evidently believes I am still a Christian; that I am just backslidden. All I need to do is return to the Lord. I just need to find that moment in time where I walked away from Jesus and return to that spot and start serving (preaching?) the Lord again. Is it really that simple? Can I undo the past fifteen years? How absurd. First, my wife is no longer believer. Second, my children are no longer believers. Third, my life is better in every way post-Jesus (except my health, which Flowers will likely attribute to God’s chastisement). Fourth, even if I embraced some sort of religious faith again, I most certainly would not return to Evangelicalism. Never, ever, not in a million, billion, trillion years. Evangelicalism causes harm (as we see in the recent overturning of Row v. Wade) and in its extreme expressions is a full-blown cult.

How does Flowers know Jesus loves me? Did he tell her? By all accounts, I am an apostate and a reprobate. It’s likely I am not elect. I would love Flowers to theologically explain to me how she knows “Jesus loves me.”

Flowers ends her missive by telling me to have a “blessed” day. I shall, all without the God of the Christian Bible. Having a “blessed” day is not contingent on faith. I will gladly explain this fact to Flowers if she’s interested.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, Your Life is a Lie

May 25, 2022 Atheism 75 Comments

According to an email I received several years ago, my present life is NOT how I present it within the pages of this blog. A Christian man by the name Nathan Smith says I am lying when I say I am happy. He also says my life is absent of compassion, freedom, and happiness, despite me saying differently. Smith challenges my manhood, saying that if I truly was a brave man I would ask a cognitive behaviorist to render their opinion on my written work. You mean the secular psychologist I see every week, the woman who reads my writing and encourages me to keep telling my story?

Smith writes:

Reading your blog doesn’t give any impression that the humanistic life is full of the kind of compassion, freedom, and happiness you say it is. If Christians serve something man-made, then they are simply doing what comes naturally to them as humans; something any true humanist would be able to understand with a lot more compassion than you seem able to demonstrate. If you were free, you would not feel compelled to continue in your devotion to Christ and His Church; albeit in hostility. Moreover, if you were happy, you would not view everything through the lens of this hostility. If humanism were true of Bruce Gerenscer [sic], the battle would have ended when he left the Church, yet here he is still playing the part with fervor.
You will be glad to hear that your new life’s work is questionable without even invoking God or scripture. If you are brave enough, let a cognitive behaviorist evaluate this blog and compare it with your stated reasons for writing it; that way you can hear from the kind of secular, educated, scientific individual you now esteem that you are completely full of it.

I will leave it to you the reader to decide if Smith’s observations ring true.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, Just Listen to Your Gut, Jesus is Calling

May 18, 2022 Evangelicalism 9 Comments

Trigger Warning for Evangelicals. This post contains sarcasm, sacrilegious humor, and 🙂 emojis. Do not proceed if these things will irritate your spiritual hemorrhoids. 🙂 You have been warned!

Earlier today, I received the following email from an Evangelical woman named Lori. She read all of two posts: Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor and Why I Hate Jesus before emailing me. What follows is her email and my response. I have slightly edited her email to correct some glaring grammar errors.

Just looking some things up on my phone this morning and came across this page, after you wrote an article on Kenny Bishop.

The article Lori is talking about is Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor. Bishop, a former member (and lead singer) of a famous family Southern Gospel group called The Bishops, left Evangelicalism, married a man, and is the pastor of a United Church of Christ congregation in Kentucky. Kenny’s departure from Evangelicalism — the one truth faith — and his embracing of the “gay lifestyle” outrages many Christians. How can these things be? I get similar responses from former ministerial colleagues and church members. How is it possible that Pastor Gerencser is now an atheist and a liberal/progressive/socialist/pacifist? Such dramatic departures from the Evangelical norm do not compute for most Evangelicals.

Kenny has gone from this:

Video Link

to this:

Video Link

I suspect that this is a bridge too far for most Evangelicals. 🙂

Not wondering exactly why I feel compelled to reach out to you, but I am a Christian.

Lori contacted me because she “felt” she needed to; that it was her duty to put in a word for Jesus. Lori ignored that I ask Evangelicals to NOT send me emails such as hers, and wrote me anyway.

My contact page states:

If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/ psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.

Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to respect my wishes? After fifteen years and thousands of unwanted emails and comments from Evangelicals, I have concluded that what I want doesn’t matter to most followers of Jesus.

I’m not here to condemn you, but something you said caught my attention.

Lori says she’s not condemning me in her email, but that is actually what she does. She refuses to accept my story at face value, choosing to deconstruct my life based on her personal opinions and peculiar interpretations of the Protestant Christian Bible. I hope she will think about why this might be offensive to me, or how she might feel if I did the same to her.

You mentioned you don’t follow southern gospel music but you stated something inside you has always stirred you in your heart. My friend that’s Jesus still reaching out to you.

Lori wrongly assumes that the emotional feelings I have when listening to certain Southern Gospel songs are a “sign” that Jesus is trying to reach out to me. Come on Jesus, text me or shoot me an email! 🙂 Lost on Lori seems to be the psychological and sociological reasons such music might appeal to me. After all, I regularly listened to Southern Gospel, quartet-style music for almost fifty years. This music made a deep, lasting imprint on my life. The same can be said of songs by the Carpenters. Is it safe for me, then, to conclude that Karen Carpenter is calling out to me from beyond the grave? Silly, right?

I’m not sure what exactly turned you away from Jesus whether life or maybe some hypocrites along the way. All I know is until you take your last breath, Jesus is waiting.

And herein lies the problem, Lori made no attempt to find out who I am. She didn’t read any of my autobiographical material. (Please see Why? and the About page) Instead, she quickly read two posts and then emailed me. Had Lori bothered to do her homework, all of her questions about me would have been answered. And, I am quite accessible. If she genuinely had questions about my story, I would have gladly answered them, as I have done countless times before for other Evangelicals.

The Bible says in Proverbs 18: 13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Ouch. 🙂 I hope Lori will think about her email to me and ponder what her God says in the aforementioned Bible verse. I didn’t say it, “God did.” 🙂

I don’t believe your an atheist because of certain comments in your writings, but maybe just lost your way.

While Lori seems polite, I do wonder if she thinks it is genteel, sociable, well-mannered, thoughtful, considerate, and respectful (Carolyn, my editor, told me to choose one word for this sentence. I decided I liked all of her suggestions.) to email complete strangers and call them liars. And that’s exactly what Lori is doing when she says I am not an atheist. Lori says she is a Christian. I accept her self-identification at face value. Why can she not do the same for me? Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to accept that I once was a Christian and now I am not; that I once was a born-again follower of Jesus and now I am an atheist; that I once had foreskin on my johnson and now I don’t? 🙂

I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I pastored churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan, spending thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible, and preaching 4,000+ sermons. I know the Bible inside and out. I haven’t lost my way, as if I am a puppy who got out of his pen, ran out the door, and wandered away. With full knowledge and eyes wide open, I reject out of hand the central claims of Christianity. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) God is a myth and Jesus is dead — end of discussion.

I realize that the biggest surprise at judgment day is the so-called Christian who judges others or does not have love for each other. They think they are going to step inside the gate with no problem as if better than Jesus himself. That will not be the case when he tells them depart from me I never knew you. Jesus is so misinterpreted by many who say they are Christians and are the farthest thing from it.

Lori seems to think that I’m no longer a Christian because of how Christians treated me; that I have been hurt by people. This simply is not true. Now, it is true that I have had countless vicious, hateful, nasty, vile Christians attack me since I left Christianity, but that was not the case while I was a Christian and a pastor. I was generally loved and respected. What should I make of all of this? I have concluded that Evangelicals have a hard time accepting people different from them. Their religion is built on a foundation of othering — us vs. them. Isn’t that exactly what Lori is doing in her email? She sees me as an “other,” someone who needs to be reclaimed for Jesus and restored to good standing with God and the Evangelical church.

I’m a Christian and yet I don’t agree with someone’s choices, my job is to pray for them and not judge them.

Lori says she doesn’t “judge” people, but that’s exactly what she did in her email. I am happy and at peace sans Jesus. Why not just accept that someone can be an atheist and live a fulfilled life? If I am happy with my life, isn’t that enough?

Just wanted to share with you this morning. I hope before your life is over you are able to find your way back to him.

I am sure readers noticed the subtle threats of Hell in Lori’s email She hopes and prays I repent and return to Jesus before I die. Why? Well, we know what will happen to me if I don’t: eternal torment and punishment in the Lake of Fire. No, Lori did not use the word Hell in her email, but it is implied in several statements she made about death.

I am, in fact, dying. Thanks to gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, degenerative spine disease, and a plethora of other serious health problems, I know my time on earth is short. Hopefully not soon, but I can feel the chilly hand of death on my neck. I intimately “feel” my mortality, yet I have no regrets over choosing to divorce Jesus. My life has been better in every way post-Jesus. I know that the Loris of the world cannot fathom a good life without God/Jesus/church/Bible, yet here I am, a shining advertisement for life’s possibilities after deconversion. Yes, I am in constant pain. Yes, life is hard and I literally and painfully struggle just to get out of bed in the morning. Yes, my life is littered with problems and trials. Yes, I am a weak, frail, contradictory man. Sometimes, I am a royal pain in the ass. Despite all these things, I wouldn’t trade my present life in the Promised Land for all the leeks and garlic in Egypt (Christianity). I am confident that when it comes time for me to die, I will be surrounded by the life of my life, six wonderful children and their spouses, and thirteen awesome grandchildren, and the last words from my lips will be, where’s the damn remote? 🙂

My advice is to go with your gut.

No, I plan to go with my mind. My “gut” can’t make up its mind. Diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, excruciating pain — sometimes all in one day. Last weekend, I had violent diarrhea, and before I could even finish my business I found myself face first in the toilet vomiting. At least I was able to flush before throwing up. 🙂 Small blessings from Loki, yes? I am sure Lori sees Jesus in this too. 🙂 Praise God, Jesus kept you from getting shit on your face! Come back to him today!

The spirit you feel when you listen to southern gospel music is Jesus reaching out.

No, it’s not. Lori provides no evidence for her claim, she just knows it’s true. All Lori needs to do is provide empirical evidence for her claim. Not a gut feeling, but actual testable evidence. Surely Lori and God can get together and provide this evidence for me. I’ll be waiting . . .

I read that you were having some health problems. Again I pray you go back to your roots and no matter what we’ve done Jesus’ forgiveness is waiting.

Lori suggests that my health problems are the result of my deconversion; that if I returned to Evangelical Christianity, my health would improve. Here’s the problem with Lori’s ill-informed “logic.” My health problems started DECADES before I deconverted. I first saw a doctor for my back in 1977, thirty years before I left Christianity. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1997, a decade before I deconverted. Every one of my health problems except gastroparesis — an incurable stomach disease — predates my loss of faith. None of this, of course, will matter to Lori. She’s read two of my posts, sized me up, and rendered judgment.

His life is not just a story, but he lost his life to save ours. Again not here to judge you but felt compelled to reach out.

Lori keeps telling me that she’s not here to “judge” me, but her email suggests otherwise. Lori is likely convinced that telling me the “truth” is not judging. She’s just repeating what she thinks her version of God has said. Here’s the thing: I already know what God allegedly said. I am confident that I know the Bible far better than Lori. There’s nothing I need to know that I don’t know already. I realize this sounds arrogant, but I haven’t heard an original thought from an Evangelical in fifteen years. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting.

Unlike Lori, I didn’t feel “compelled” to respond to her email. I am writing this post because I want to; I hope my response will be helpful to readers lurking in the shadows; I hope doubting Christians or readers who have left Christianity will find my response encouraging.

Saved by Reason,

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

My Latest Passive-Aggressive Email From an IFB Woman

May 18, 2022 Evangelicalism 7 Comments

I spent decades in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, from the early 1960s until the late 1990s. I attended Midwestern Baptist College, an IFB institution, in the 1970s. I continue to follow the IFB movement closely, reading scores of blogs and websites, and listening to far too many Fundamentalist sermons and podcasts. All that hellfire and brimstone preaching, and I am still not saved. 🙂 My wife’s family is IFB through and through. Polly’s dad was an IFB pastor, as was her uncle Jim Dennis. (Please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis.) Several family members are pastors, missionaries, and evangelists. We have great-nephews and grand-nieces who are currently attending or plan to attend unaccredited IFB colleges. Last Sunday, we listened to a podcast where one of our grand-nieces was sharing her plans for after high school. She plans to attend an IFB college so she can become a school teacher. How sad, both Polly and I said. ________ is a wonderful girl. She’s going to spend the next four years getting a worthless education, one that’s only good if she teaches at an IFB school. Numerous young relatives have received similar training, convinced by their parents that this is what “God” wants them to do. I have said all of this to say that I continue to have my finger on the pulse of IFB church movement.

I have written countless articles about the IFB church movement since I started blogging in 2007. I am well-known in some corners of IFB world. As a result, I have received a lot of emails and comments from offended, outraged, angry, nasty, vile, vicious, hateful IFB zealots. From death threats to attacks on my character to threats of judgment and Hell, IFB zealots have tried to marginalize me and my story — unsuccessfully, I might add.

I have found that IFB zealots are experts in passive-aggressive behavior. Yesterday, I received an email from a woman from Alabama named Donna.

Here’s what he had to say:

Hi Bruce!
Hope this warms your heart, I am NOT praying for you.
I will not be concerned if I don’t hear from you for a while, or at all.
Matter of fact, I wouldn’t read your response if you did so don’t waste your time.
Enjoy your life while you can.
Best to you and your wife.

Now that’s one passive-aggressive email.

I replied:

Donna,
I have no idea who you are. Your email is quite passive-aggressive. Was that your intent?
I see you came to my site looking for information on Pastor Mark Falls from the Newark Baptist Temple in Heath, Ohio. If you didn’t like something I said about Falls, you could have commented on the relevant post. Instead, you took the typical approach most Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) take with me: nasty, spiteful, passive-aggressive, complete with a subtle threat of judgment and Hell.
Please square the content of your email with the teachings of the Bible, especially the verses that tell you how to treat your enemies.
Be well.
Bruce Gerencser

I have no idea who this person is. Mark Falls is an Alabama native and pastored in the state, so Donna could be a relative or a former church member. Falls currently pastors the Newark Baptist Temple in Heath, Ohio, a church previously pastored by Polly’s uncle, Jim Dennis, for over forty years. Polly’s mom attends Newark Baptist. She’s been a member of the church for forty+ years.

I’ve written several posts about Falls:

IFB Pastor Mark Falls Tries to Use Bible Verses to Guilt People into Attending Church during Coronavirus Pandemic

Dear Pastor Mark Falls, My Wife’s Mother Doesn’t Have Nine Lives

An IFB Funeral: Fundamentalist Christianity Poisons Everything

Donna did not respond to my email.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Tag: Evangelical Email and Comments

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