I was intimate with my lover for many, many years.
My wife and children know about the affair. I am so sorry for all the hurt and damage my illicit relationship caused. That my wife and children stood by me all these years is a wonderful testimony to their love for me. I don’t deserve it.
My mistress and I carried on for a long, long time. She would follow me wherever I moved: Ohio, Texas, Michigan. She was always right there for me.
My mistress is a lot older than I am. She is what is commonly called a cougar.
The sex was great. The only problem was I could never satisfy her. The more sex we had, the more she wanted. She was quite the nymphomaniac. I had a suspicion she was having sex with other people (she was bisexual) but it didn’t matter. What WE had was special. She treated me as if I was the ONLY one.
Over the years, we made a lot of promises to each other. We are going to do this or that, go here or go there. But neither I nor my mistress delivered on our promises.
I gave my mistress a lot of money. She deserved it, or so I thought. Yet, no matter how much money I gave her, she always wanted more. She would often tell me “Prove that you love me, Bruce.” So I would give her more money. I began to wonder if she was a prostitute and I was a john. My wife and children suffered because I gave so much money to her. I justified their destitution by telling myself that my affair was what gave me purpose and meaning in life. Without it, I might as well be dead.
I deceived myself for a long time, convinced that what my mistress and I had was real. After all, she made me feel alive. She gave me self-worth. When we were together it seemed as if time stopped and we were transported into the heavens.
One day, I began to have doubts about my affair. The sex was great, but there is more to life than sex. I certainly enjoyed the company of my mistress, and boy, she sure could cook, but I still felt quite empty when I was away from her.
I began to think about all the sacrifices I made for my mistress: all the money I gave her; the loss of a close, intimate relationship with my wife and children. Was it worth it? Since my mistress got the best of me, all my family got was leftovers. By the time I came home to them, I was too tired, too busy, and too broke to give them what they needed and deserved.
A decade or so ago, after much self-judgment and reflection, I ended the affair. I sold all of the mementos of our torrid relationship. I told my mistress that I could no longer be in a relationship with her. She didn’t even get angry, or for that matter, even care. She told me “There are plenty of other people who would love to have me in their lives. Your loss, Bruce.”
So we parted ways,
My wife and I, along with our children, are trying to rebuild our family. The damage done by this affair is incalculable. I can only hope that, with time, the wounds will be healed.
I should warn all of you about my mistress. She is always on the prowl looking for someone new to entice and bed.
Her name?
The Church.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Oldest Three Boys with Oldest Daughter, Front pew Somerset Baptist Church, Circa 1990
My wife and I have six adult children and sixteen grandchildren. Our children are gainfully employed and we have good, close relationships with all of them. Our children were raised as PK’s — preacher’s kids. Growing up as the children of the pastor wasn’t easy. Both congregants and their father held them to a higher standard than that of other children. My children knew that their behavior would directly reflect on me — warranted or not. As a result, my children were generally respectful, polite, and well-behaved. I have often wondered if they liked this life that was chosen for them. None of them has said one way or the other, but I do wonder if they would have preferred a “normal” childhood (however “normal” is defined). Perhaps, one of these days my daughter or one of my sons will write a guest post for this site, sharing their thoughts about what it was like growing up as the children of Rev. Bruce Gerencser, a devout Evangelical pastor. Or maybe, just maybe, my children prefer to let their childhoods lie buried in the past, never to be resurrected again. Their stories are theirs alone to tell. The same goes for Polly.
After my wife and I divorced Jesus, I heard from former colleagues in the ministry and parishioners who had a message for me from Jesus: YOU ARE RUINING YOUR FAMILY, BRUCE! Polly was never blamed for anything. Always Miss Perfect! 🙂 I was the head of the home, I was told, so I was responsible for how their lives turned out. It’s been eleven years since we attended church for the last time. Our children, at the time, were aged 15, 17, 19, 24, 27, and 29. All of them were old enough to decide for themselves when it when came to God, Christianity, the Bible, attending church, etc. Yet, according to my critics, it’s my fault for their loss of faith. Granted, Mom and Dad not going to church, Dad not preaching, and Jesus/Bible/church not being the focus of discussion 24/7 certainly confused them. I have been accused of turning my children over to the wolves by just cutting them loose after I deconverted; that I owed it to them to steer them in the “right” direction, even if I didn’t want to head that way myself. Here’s the thing: my children were old enough to think for themselves. Steering them in the right direction meant giving them the freedom to be whomever and whatever they wanted to be — no strings attached. Some of my children were already at the back door of the church, ready to push it open and walk away. All my deconversion did was give them freedom — you’re free, cheezy bread, you’re free!
Fundamentalist family members believe that if I had just kept serving Jesus and preaching the Word, all of my children would still be attending Evangelical churches, would still be worshiping Jesus, and would still be part of the machinations of church life. I couldn’t help but feel my late Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) mother-in-law’s disappointment when she quietly shook her head over our “worldliness” and that of our children. How worldly are we? Why, we drink alcohol and cuss. That’s about it. Well that, and watch MAX. Yes, two of my sons have gone through divorces, but am I to blame for their failed marriages? I think not. Sure, our family is more boisterous now that Jesus isn’t the center of attention, but we are not degenerates. On December 16, our family will gather at our home for Christmas — twenty-seven, in all. We will all cram into our 12’x18′ living room to watch the opening of gifts. Someone will suggest, as they always do, that the windows need to be opened and we need to build on an addition to our home. Jokes will follow, and Dad will abused by his sons. One thing is for certain, crammed as the room shall indeed be, it will be filled with love. The focus will be on family, not religion. “But, Bruce, JESUS is the reason for the Season!” Really? No, he’s not, not even in Evangelical homes. Oh sure, there will be prayers and Jesus talk, but once those things are dispensed with, it’s on to fun, food, and fellowship. The Gerencser family just so happens to enjoy the fun, food, and fellowship, sans Jesus. Several of our children will attend mass over the Christmas season, but for the most part they will focus their time and energy on their families. You see, whatever they think of me leaving the ministry and my subsequent loss of faith, they understand that what really matters is family. And if I can be faulted for teaching my children (and grandchildren) anything it is this: family matters.
Youngest Children, Defiance, Ohio, Circa Late 1990s, Early 2000s.
When the substance of this life is boiled away and you are on your deathbed, what will matter the most to you? Your money? Your car? Your home? Your looks? Your material possessions? I doubt it. I know, for me at least, that what matters is Polly and our family. These people make up the sum of my life. I labor under no illusions. I will never be remembered for being a Pulitzer Prize-winning author. I know when I die that I will, over time, be forgotten by most of the people with whom I have crossed paths. I will become little more than a historical footnote. Perhaps this blog will live on after I die. It, like everything in life, will eventually fade away. Everything in life is transitory, but a vapor, the Bible says, that appears for a moment and vanishes away. I remember sitting in school classrooms on cold winter days, aimlessly watching the steam from boiler radiators rise and dissipate. That’s life. When Polly, our children, and our grandchildren share their favorite Bruce/Dad/Grandpa stories at my lakeside memorial, I hope they will have good things to say about me, and a few ribald, silly things too. In that moment, they will learn that all we have is our memories. Treasure them, for they too, over time, will fade away.
As for former colleagues in the ministry, former church members, and Evangelical family members who continue to paint me as Billy Bob Thornton in Bad Santa — a man who ruined his family — all I can say is “talk to the hand.” Well, I “could” say a lot more than that — I love the F word these days — but why bother? It’s too late in the game for me to worry about catcalls from the stands; to worry about arrogant, judgmental Christians who cannot or will not see how blessed the Gerencser family really is without Jesus.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Dr. David Tee’s Massive Library, Including Ben Berwick’s Favorite Book, Meerkat Mail 🙂
Dr. David Tee, who is neither a doctor nor a Tee, recently decided to let the readers of his blog know why the Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser deconverted. Tee, whose legal name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, has blamed all sorts of things for my loss of faith, but now he has decided that “books” are my problem; that if I had only read the “right” books I would still be a Christian.
Thiessen is not alone in his assertion. One former church member told me that books were my problem; that if I would just start reading the Bible again, all would be well. I had a preacher friend, who prided himself in not reading anything except the Bible, tell me that I needed to get rid of my library and just read the King James Bible. He proudly was an ignorant man of one book. He was certain that if I would just start reading the Bible again, my faith would return.
BG [Bruce Gerencser] often complains that we write about him more than any other topic. That is not true, of course, as we rarely write directly about him. We do write about what he has said on his website, which is totally different.
However, this article is about him directly as he is an example of what not to do. While we are writing mainly for pastors, missionaries, and church leaders, what happened to BG can also happen to the layperson in the congregation.
These words apply to you, your children, and your friends as well. Protecting your faith is essential if you want to hear those treasured words, ‘Well done thou good and faithful servant’. But BG did not protect his faith and he is no longer part of God’s family.
The way that he did that was to open his mind and heart to unbelievers. Here is was, a pastor for 25 years, knowing and preaching the truth for 4000 sermons, yet he still let evil take him down. Instead of following the Bible correctly and discerning between right and wrong words, true and false teaching, he may have slowly let false teaching destroy him.
The Bible tells us that the secular world does not have the truth and lives in a dark world. They truly have nothing to offer the believer. When we were young it was said that the church was about 10 years behind the secular world and that statement applied to a variety of issues.
What we have seen in the last 40+ years is that the church seems to be equal to the secular world in adopting sinful teaching. We are not talking about the use of technology in the sermons although that should be dispensed with, we are talking about accepting secular psychological ideas for counseling, theology, as well as life in general.
When that happens we are not shining our light unto a dark world and not only do we put ourselves as Church leaders in jeopardy, we are doing the same for our congregations. Sadly, BG led his family to destruction as well as many people he can through his website and interviews.
He came to this fallen state by doing the following:
“I decided I would go back to the Bible, study it again, and determine what it was I REALLY believed. During this time, I began reading books by authors such as Robert Wright, Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman, These three authors, along with several others, attacked the foundation of my Evangelical beliefs: the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. Their assault on this foundation brought my Evangelical house tumbling down. I desperately tried to find some semblance of the Christianity I once believed, but I came to realize that my faith was gone.”
Instead of going to God like Billy Graham did when he felt the call to ministry, BG went to unbelievers. he opened the door to his destruction by ignoring what the Bible says about evil men and accepting their words over God’s.
Evil will use a variety of people to try to take you down. It can be through books, movies, t.v. shows, sexy men and women, as well as questionable situations. having God protect you is the way you need to run the race and finish the course.
“During this time period, I read countless books written by authors from a broad spectrum of Christendom. I read books by authors such as Thomas Merton, Robert Farrar Capon, Henri Nouwen, Wendell Berry, Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, John Shelby Spong, Soren Kierkegaard, and NT Wright. These authors challenged my Evangelical understanding of Christianity and its teachings.”
There is no instruction in the Bible to challenge your faith. Jesus simply said ‘ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free’. Both Paul and Peter warned us about false teachers, false prophets, and that evil men go from bad to worse.
What those verses are telling us is that we do not need to challenge our faith but look for the truth. What we do is put all authors into their proper categories. Is he or she a true Christian writing the truth or are they bringing a different gospel and are false teachers, etc?
That is the question every church leader needs to ask when reading books from all types of authors. if you are in doubt about an author, find their biography and read up[ on their beliefs. That information will help you make the correct determination and how you should be viewing their words.
Non-Christian authors may provide insight into how non-believers think and believe, but that is about all they have to offer a believer in Christ. They do not offer any insights on how to live life because they oppose God who has given us his instructions on how to live life.
We follow God over man, something BG failed to do.
“I turned to the internet to find help. I came upon sites like exchristian.net and Debunking Christianity. I found these sites to be quite helpful as I tried to make sense of what was going on in my life. I began reading the books of authors such as John Loftus, Hector Avalos, Robert M. Price, Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Jerry Coyne, and Richard Dawkins.”
This is another thing that should not have been done. Instead of going to Christian websites for help, he went to those who left the faith. What we do not read in his words is if he asked for evidence to support the words of those former Christians and atheists?
He does ask for evidence from Christians yet nothing seems to be asked from those people he read. He simply took their word for it and started down his slippery slope. What BG also did wrong was what Deut. 21:21 says:
“Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall eliminate the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear about it and fear.”
Instead of moving away from those evil people, he embraced them and their words. Disobeying God has consequences and BG has certainly paid for his disobedience. Also, like Bill Mahr who cherry-picked the believers he would highlight in his film Religiosity, BG cherry-picked the churches he would visit:
“I tried, for a time, to convince myself that I could find some sort of Christianity that would work for me. Polly and I visited numerous liberal or progressive Christian churches, but I found that these expressions of faith would not do for me. My faith was gone.”
Liberal and progressive Christianity is not Christianity and should not be given the label of being Christian. Why not go to true Christian churches and get the truth? This action sounds like what Bill Mahr did, and that was to protect his atheism, not find the truth.
BG seems to have wanted to deconvert and went to places that would help him do just that. When in doubt, you do not go to unbelievers or those who bring a different gospel. You go to true believers who have love, compassion, and wisdom and tell you the truth.
….
As Sodom, Gomorrah, Noah’s Flood, and the Tower of Babel are examples of what not to do, so are the life and decisions of BG and every other former Christian. Keep your eyes on Christ and you will never fail.
According to Thiessen, when I began questioning my beliefs, I should have ONLY read books by Evangelical authors. Evidently, he forgot that I had already read these books. I know what Evangelicals believe and practice, inside and out. Why would I waste my time reading books that repeated the same apologetics arguments over and over again? I know all I need to know about Evangelical Christianity.
I am still on a journey of discovery, following the path wherever it leads. I will become a Christian once again if and when I am presented with evidence to warrant me doing so. My “conversion” will take new evidence, not the same-old-shit-new-day stuff. Of course, Evangelicals don’t have new evidence. Their religion is a closed system of thought. Evangelicals pride themselves on allegedly having the same beliefs that Jesus and the apostles had 2,000 years ago. Of course, they don’t actually have the same beliefs, but they think they do. Evangelicals would know better if they bothered to read books outside of their peculiar rut, but such reading is discouraged and, at times, condemned. Thiessen is the norm in Evangelical circles, not the exception.
There’s much I could say in response to Thiessen, but I will refrain from doing so. I have no idea why he decided to use an eight-year-old post, Why I Stopped Believing, to continue his deconstruction of my life. He makes numerous false statements, including “cherry-picking” the churches Polly and I visited after we left the ministry. Here’s a list of the churches we visited. As you will see, we attended a variety of churches and sects; everything except IFB churches. No need to visit IFB churches since that was our background. Most of the churches were Evangelical theologically, though no church was off limits. We were on a journey, willing to follow the path wherever it led. Sadly, Thiessen is stuck in the religion of his childhood, holding on to his tribe’s deity. Now a senior citizen, Thiessen has no real-world experience with any other religion or system of belief but his own. He does not know what he doesn’t know.
Thiessen says I wanted to deconvert, that I was looking for a way out of Christianity. Nothing in my story remotely suggests that this claim is true. In fact, the truth is the exact opposite. I did everything possible NOT to deconvert. I wanted to keep believing. However, I value truth over “want.” I became an atheist because I had no other choice.
Thiessen is free to show what I have “missed” about Christianity, but I am confident no evidence will be forthcoming.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Somerset Baptist Church, Mt Perry, Ohio, Bruce and Polly Gerencser and kids, 1985
Jack:Hey Bruce, I just read a little about your life and your description of how IFB preachers are treated like Demigods. I was saved in 1981 and God changed my life and Christ is my Saviour. I went to Hyles Anderson College for a little bit. I’m back with the Lord. The Lord seems to have restored me and I’m happier and have more peace and am winning souls consistently. Are you saying that none of this is real to you anymore? What about God, and Heaven and Hell and Judgement? I’m just asking I’m not trying to argue. I’m curious about your response.
Bruce: I’m an atheist, so no, I don’t think there is a God, Heaven, Hell, judgment, etc. You might find these posts helpful: Why?
Jack:Are you familiar with Dr. Jack Hyles?
Bruce: Yes, I’ve written extensively about Hyles and his son.
Jack:So what about getting saved, you never believed in that?
Bruce: Yes, I was saved, and now I’m not.
Jack:You really believe you were saved? How can you lose your salvation when the Lord comes into your heart?
Bruce: Don’t let your theology get in the way of reality. Countless people faithfully follow Jesus for years and then deconvert.
Jack:You don’t believe in being born again, and the Lord coming into your heart, and you becoming a new creature?
Bruce: Of course I did, but now I don’t.
Jack:So you don’t think that really happens?
Bruce: I “believe” it happened. All religious experiences are psychological in nature. We can believe all sorts of things that aren’t true or convince ourselves that certain experiences are real.
Jack: I believe the Lord really did come into my heart; there has been an internal change that cannot be denied! IT IS REAL! My desires changed, and my outlook, and I’m in the Light now, I see things differently! By faith!
Bruce: It’s “real” because you think it is. You want or need it to be real, so it is. And that’s fine.
Jack:You don’t think peace and comfort and joy and God’s love is real. I experience it!
Bruce: You “experience” what you believe those things to be. Again, all religious experiences are psychological in nature. Devout believers in other religions have similar “experiences.”
Usually, when an IFB Christian contacts me, I roll up my sleeves and ready myself for a bloody fight. Either that or I just say fuck off and turn on Sports Center. I sensed that Jack really wanted to understand my story, so I decided to briefly engage him in a discussion. I thought, “maybe, just maybe, I can get Jack to look beyond his narrow Fundamentalist theology.” I am not sure I accomplished that, but I hope that I planted a few seeds of doubt that might germinate and cause Jack to rethink his worldview. Not every online discussion has to end in hostility and conflict. I am content to put in a good word for reason, skepticism, and intellectual inquiry and move on.
Trained by the late Jack Hyles and his acolytes at First Baptist Church in Hammond and Hyles-Anderson College, Jack believes that once a person prays the sinner’s prayer and asks Jesus into his heart, he is a Christian; and once saved, always saved. In Jack’s mind, there’s nothing I can say or do to separate myself from God (Romans 8:35-39). Because I prayed the sinner’s prayer at Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio, at the age of fifteen, I am forever a child of God, and Heaven awaits me after I die. No matter what I have said or done in the intervening fifty-two years, nothing can undo what took place one fall night years ago. I could become a Muslim, commit mass murder, or sexually molest children — it matters not — once saved, always saved.
IFB Christians such as Jack are left with two possibilities after reading my story:
I never was a Christian
I am a backslidden Christian
The first possibility is absurd. There’s nothing in my past that suggests that I was anything but a devoted, committed, sincere follower of Jesus. The fact that I am now an atheist does not magically erase my past (or the knowledge I have about Christianity and the Bible). The only honest explanation for my past is this: I once was a Christian, and now I am not.
The second possibility is equally absurd. There is nothing in my present life that remotely suggests that I am a Christian. Anyone who reads my blog surely knows that I am not, in any way, a Christian. Not an Evangelical; not an IFB Christian; not a liberal Christian; not a progressive Christian; not a Christian humanist; not a Christian universalist; not a Christian, period. I am a card-carrying atheist, a member in good standing of the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world.
When someone tells me that they are a Christian, I accept their “testimony” at face value. Jack says he has been an IFB Christian for thirty-eight years. I believe him. It’s his storyline. Who better to tell his story than Jack? I just wish that Christians would do the same for Evangelicals-turned-atheists. “But Bruce,” Christians say, “the Bible says yada yada yada yada.” What the Bible purportedly says is not my problem. I get it. Jack can’t square my story with his peculiar theology. Countless Evangelicals have the same problem when they read my story. Again, that’s not my problem. I know what I know. Ask anyone who knew me when I was a Christian: Was Bruce a “real” follower of Jesus; a True Christian®? To a person, they will say, absolutely! Either I deceived my wife, children, in-laws, extended family, friends, college roommates, professors, ministerial colleagues, and congregants, or I really was a Christian. What’s more likely? Trust me, I am not a very good liar. Me not having been a Christian is akin to the moon landing being a hoax.
Stories such as mine will continue to cause cognitive dissonance for IFB Christians such as Jack. All I can hope for is that by reading my story, they will have doubts and questions that will lead to further investigation and inquiry. Fundamentalist Christians can and do change. I once believed as Jack did, and so did many of the readers of this blog. Yet, we are now unbelievers. Deconversion is a slow, agonizing, painful process. Some people cannot bear the questions and doubts, so they retreat into the safety of their houses of faith. Others, however, are willing to suffer through the process, believing that truth and freedom await them on the other side. There’s a gospel song that says, we’ve come this far by faith, we can’t turn back now. For people such as myself, we’ve come this far by reason, we can’t turn back now.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Two years ago, an Evangelical man from California named Daniel Kluver began his stalker-like behavior by emailing me and commenting on this site. He would later contact my wife and children on Facebook. A year later, Kluver was permanently banned from commenting and blocked (and reported) on social media.
During this two-year period, I wrote about or responded to Kluver eight times:
It has been a while since Kluver contacted me. Evidently, he was perusing an atheist porn site, saw my sexy Santa photo, and fearing the arousal of his latent gay desires, decided to fire off an email to me instead (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
You never were a Christian or you would still be one.
Welp, I was a Christian, so according to Kluver’s present theology, I must still be one. He at one time believed I was still a Christian, but he no longer does so.
According to Kluver’s illogical logic, once you are __________, you are always ___________, no matter what you say or do. Thus, I am either still a Christian (which he rejects) or I never was one.
Kluver doesn’t apply his illogical logic to any other aspect of life. If a person gets married and then divorced, is he still married? Of course not. I could use countless things to illustrate this very point. Life if filled with us changing our minds about choices we have previously made. As far as Christianity is concerned, I came to believe that I had believed a lie; that my parents, pastors, and professors had sold me a false bill of goods. Further, extensive study and investigation of the central claims of Christianity led me to conclude that I had spent much of my life worshipping and serving a God that did not exist.
What should I have done? Keep believing? Faith it until I make it? Better to believe a lie just in case I’m wrong? I did what most thoughtful people do: I examined the evidence at hand and changed my mind accordingly. If Kluver wants to reach me for Jesus — and he doesn’t — he needs to provide me evidence that the claims of Christianity are true. Further, he needs to model behavior that remotely suggests he is a follower of Jesus. So far, all I see is a hateful troll whose goal is to harass me.
Stop lying about this and tell the truth that you probably have nephilim blood running in your life.
For readers not familiar with Kluver’s claims I have Nephilim blood, Genesis 6:1-4 says:
When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim [giants] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
The Nephilim are mysterious beings or people in the Hebrew Bible who are described as being large and strong. The Hebrew word Nephilim directly translates to “the fallen ones”. Their origins are disputed. Some view them as offspring of fallen angels and humans. Others view them as offspring of the descendants of Seth and Cain.
The main reference to them is in Genesis 6:1–4, but the passage is ambiguous and the identity of the Nephilim is disputed. According to the Book of Numbers 13:33, ten of the Twelve Spies report the existence of Nephilim in Canaan, prior to its conquest by the Israelites.
A similar or identical biblical Hebrew term, read as “Nephilim” by some scholars, or as the word “fallen” by others, appears in the Book of Ezekiel 32:27 and is also mentioned in the deuterocanonical books Judith 16:6, Sirach 16:7, Baruch 3:26–28, and Wisdom 14:6.
According to Kluver, I am the offspring of a human mother and a fallen angel. He, of course, has no evidence for his claim. He’s just making shit up. I will, however, gladly submit to blood and DNA tests to prove Kluver’s claim. Where does one go for a Nephilim test? 🙂 I’ll be sure to ask my doctor at my next visit.
I have never heard of a saved devil so I understand that you can’t help being a liar.
In classic Revival Fires, Derrick Thomas Thiessen, and Victor Justice fashion, Kluver accuses me of being a liar. Once again, he provides no evidence for his claim. Among outspoken former Evangelicals, I am known for being open and honest about not only my past life, but the present. While I have a few secrets which I shall never divulge, I am generally an open book. Have a question? Ask. It seems, then, that Kluver is lying about me being a liar. Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time telling the truth or being honest interlocutors? I am more than happy to have discussions with Evangelicals provided they are thoughtful and honest.
So do you want all your garbage to die when you die or do you still want to bring embarrassment to your self?
Garbage? Unable to accept my story at face value, Kluver has resorted to all sorts of derogatory name-calling — a common Evangelical trait. Today, I am “garbage.” What does Kluver hope to accomplish by this approach? Shitting on unbelievers is not an effective way to reach them for Jesus.
After writing this post, I found a comment that Kluver left in 2019:
Baptist’s suck that’s all I want to say about them.
Okay?
In 2021, Michael Mock had this to say about Kluver:
Kluver seems to have mistaken being full of himself for being full of the holy spirit. Probably thinks of himself as a “straight shooter” who’s just “telling it like it is,” which is one of the top five excuses I’ve heard assholes give for their behavior over the years. But hey, if he has the power — excuse me, gift — to get his prayers answered by the Almighty, then this should be easy for him. All he has to do is get the Lord to address us directly. Have Jesus stop by for a beer. Easy!
Amen.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
More people have left the church in the last twenty-five years than all the new people who became Christians from the First Great Awakening, Second Great Awakening, and Billy Graham crusades combined.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, I received the following email from a Christian woman named Alicia. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original. My response follows. Alicia means well, so I do want to extend grace to her in my response.
Hi Bruce,
I just love you. I bet you were an awesome pastor. (And your wife looks absolutely lovely.) I am a believer and I love Tim Mill’s site and your site.
I am not sure what Alicia means by saying “I just love you.” I tend to bristle when Christians tell me that they love me, knowing how “love” is used to manipulate people or as an evangelism tool. Alicia doesn’t know me, so she is not in a position to “love” me. Maybe she used the word in a colloquial sense.
I will leave it to former parishioners to say whether I was an awesome pastor. I humbly tried my best to minister to other people. Whether that qualifies as “awesome” is for others to decide. I do know that there are former parishioners who don’t think I am “awesome.” If these people saw me in a crosswalk, they would probably speed up and try to run me over. ‘Tis the nature of the ministry. You can’t be all things to all people.
Several months ago, I was interviewed by Tim Mills. Over 82,000 people have viewed the interview.
I find it so interesting to see how real believer’s minds change. I kinda get the textual and philisophical reasons why folks deconvert. But what I don’t get is when you guys say that there is no such thing as sin. Well, I do get it. It’s because you guys never wallowed in it yourselves. You actually walked the walk so your consciences are clear and your souls aren’t dinged up from it. You just feel like you’ve been bamboozled by religion.
Sin is a religious construct used by clerics to induce guilt and fear. Properly abused by preaching and teaching on “sin,” congregants are then offered a “solution” for their sin — Jesus. Of course, Jesus is only found in churches that preach Biblical truth — or so preachers say, anyway. Offered forgiveness, once accepted, church members are expected to be faithful attendees and tithers. Preaching up sin is a way for preachers to maintain their hold on congregants, and, most of all, keep the money flowing.
As a humanist, I believe in good and bad behavior — not sin. Many normal, healthy human behaviors are considered “sins” by Christians. People go through life feeling fearful and guilty over just being human. This is particularly true when it comes to sexual behavior.
Trust me when I say that I have done a lot of “sinning” in my lifetime. My religion taught me that I daily sinned in thought, word, and deed, committing sins, according to my pastors, of commission and omission. This thinking led to a lot of fear and guilt. I was worried that the judgment of God was nigh, and that if I didn’t stop sinning God might kill me.
Today, I live a much simpler life. No more fear or guilt, no worries about chastisement or judgment. My goal on any given day is to be a good man, living according to the humanist ideal. (Humanist Manifesto) And when I fail, I do my best to apologize and make restitution.
Well,,Lemme tell you, as a prodigal. THERE IS SIN. I walked away from God and walked in sin and it traumatized me. (Don’t let a Dr. prescribe an antidepressant. They will fry your brain worse than a street drug.) Anyhow,… When I came back to God and read the Bible again…talk about feeling Bamboozled. What a B-Slap! Over and over that Book warns us not to sin so we don’t hurt ourselves and others.
I can’t speak to Alicia’s experiences, but I don’t view myself as a prodigal. I am a truth-seeker. Fifteen years ago, my studies and experiences showed me that the central claims of Christianity are false. Prodigals are people who return to that which they left behind. How could I possibly do so? If Christianity is untrue, what is there for me to go back to? That ship has sailed.
You”re in therapy cuz you were sinned against so horribly as a child. Your precious mother was sinned against and so traumatized. ( Lord only knows what you saw and dealt with as a Pastor.) And as i said…my own sins traumatized me.
I am in therapy for a lot of reasons — childhood trauma being one of them. However, it would be wrong to pin my deconversion on trauma alone. I’m not an atheist because my step-grandmother sexually molested me, nor am I an atheist because of countless other childhood traumas. Sure, these events shaped me psychologically and affected how I engage the world I live in, but my deconversion rests primarily on intellectual reasons, not emotional ones.
I hope you don’t regret too much your time as a pastor. I”m sure you hedged a lot of folks from pain.\
The only thing I regret is spending so much of my life believing a lie. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed being a pastor. There are certain aspects of the ministry I don’t miss, but loving and caring for people? Preaching and teaching? Ministering to the least of these? I would be less than honest if I didn’t admit that I miss these things. Maybe I need to start an atheist church. 🙂
Forgive me if I seem like I”m talking church talk. I really am approaching it from a psychological standpoint.
The problem with approaching my story from a “psychological standpoint” is that Alicia is not qualified to do so, and neither are countless other Christians who take this approach with me.
I know you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, but you are not a medical professional, so please do not send me unsolicited medical or psychological advice. I am not interested — ever.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
I make it clear that I am not interested in receiving medical or psychological advice — ever. I see a team of doctors on a regular basis. I see a psychologist weekly. I am well-cared for. That’s why I ask people to NOT send me medical or psychological advice. How hard can it be for people to respect my wishes?
Anyhow, please don’t feel the need to respond. I know you are a busy dude. And this topic is treading borderline for you.
Not treading, past the line. I know you mean well, so I am giving you a pass this round. In the future, when someone you don’t know says “These are my boundaries,” believe them.
I wanna say God Bless You, but I don’t want to offend.
So I”ll be more invasive and just say HUGE HUGS to you and your wife.
There is no God, so I am not concerned about his “blessing” in the least. I have much to be thankful and grateful for, but God plays no part in my life. I give credit to whom credit is due, and God ain’t done squat for me. How can he? He is a mythical being.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, an Evangelical man named Charles Pentland, Jr. sent me the following email:
Sad, you turned from the faith. You’re not the only one. It won’t be long & you will believe it.
I really don’t have much to say to Charles. For the life of me, I don’t understand why Evangelicals think threatening strangers on the Internet with Hell is an effective evangelization technique. Does anyone thusly threatened immediately fall on their knees, repent, and ask Jesus to save them? Of course not. Thus, I am left to conclude that such threats are all about people such as Charles, and not the people they threaten. They have a pathological need to be right, and what better way to show their rightness than by threatening unbelievers — especially atheists — with hellfire and damnation? Evangelicals feel vindicated, thinking, “I sure told that atheist.” Instead, all they do is remind me of why I left Christianity, and why the single best decision I made next to marrying Polly was the day I said to the world “I no longer believe.”
Charles feels “sad” over my loss of faith. Does he really? I doubt it. People change their minds about things all the time. People marry and later divorce. Jesus and I were married for many years — happily so. Yet, there came a day when I realized my marriage to Jesus was over. What did I do? I filed for divorce, and fifteen years later, I am still a happy divorcee. While I lost lifetime social connections when I deconverted, I have developed new relationships with people who accept me as I am, and not for what I believe. My life is better in every way — post-Jesus. Of course, Charles likely doesn’t believe me, thinking that no one can have a good life, a satisfying life, one filled with purpose and meaning, without J-e-s-u-s. All I know to do is to keep living my “sad” life all the way to the grave. Isn’t that all any of us can do?
Let me leave Charles with the advice I give to readers on my About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
It has been sixteen years since I left Christianity and declared myself to be an atheist – sixteen years of countless emails and comments from primarily Evangelical Christians asking me to explain WHY I am no longer a follower of Jesus. It has been a long time since someone has asked me a question that hasn’t already been asked by someone else. This is to be expected. There are only so many ways I can explain my reasons and motivations for becoming an atheist after spending twenty-five years in the ministry.
To help me better manage my time, I have created a WHY page that I can point people to when they have questions about my deconversion. After the questioner has read some or all of the following posts, I will then be quite happy to answer whatever questions they might have. These posts will likely answer 99% of the questions people ask me about my journey from Evangelicalism to Atheism.
Thank you for taking the time to read these posts. If you have any questions, please use the contact form to email me. If you are an Evangelical, I ask that you read one more post, Dear Evangelical, before sending me your question, sermon, prayer, rebuke, or denunciation. Thanks!
Richard asked: During your time inthe IFB what was your particular view on the KJV? Did you change this view prior to leaving Christianity?
I grew up in Baptist churches that only used the King James Bible. These churches weren’t King James-only per se. It is just that the King James Bible was the only version these churches used. I don’t remember ever hearing a sermon on why church members should only use the KJV. This all changed with the publishing of the New International Version (NIV) in 1978 and the New King James Version (NKJV) in 1982. This forced Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches and pastors, along with IFB colleges and seminaries, to stake out positions on English Bible translations. The college I attended in the 1970s, Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, was decidedly King James-only. Professors and students were required to use only the KJV, and chapel speakers were required to do the same. Using a different translation was grounds for immediate expulsion. At the same time, however, the KJV extremism of Peter Ruckman was also banned, I suspect out of trying to avoid the infighting that Ruckmanism tended to foment. (Please read Questions: Bruce, In Your IFB Days Did You Encounter Peter Ruckman?) That said, Ruckman’s teachings found fertile ground in which to grow, and more than a few Midwestern graduates became Ruckmanites. These pastors advertise their beliefs about Bible translations by displaying on their church signs and literature KJV 1611. (Back in the day when Polly and I were looking for a church to attend, we took KJV 1611 on a church sign to mean: Danger! Infected with an incurable disease. Do not enter!)
I entered the ministry as a defender of the inspiration and inerrancy of the Word of God; “Word of God” being the King James Bible. While I was never a follower of Peter Ruckman — I despised his nasty, vulgar disposition and that of his disciples — I generally believed as he did: that the King James Bible was God’s perfect word for English-speaking people. I wasn’t one to spend much time preaching about Bible translations. Everyone knew that at the churches I pastored we ONLY used the King James Bible.
In the late 1980s, I read several books that called into question my belief that the King James Bible was inerrant. I concluded that no translation was without error, and that inerrancy only applied to the original manuscripts. I took the approach that the KJV was the best and most reliable translation for English-speaking people. I held this position until the late 1990s.
In 1995, I started a non-denominational church, Our Father’s House, in West Unity, Ohio. I would pastor Our Father’s House for seven years. It was here that my theology, politics, and social values began to change. In 2000, I decided to change which Bible translation I used when preaching. I had already been reading other translations in my studies, but using anything but a KJV for preaching was a big deal, at least for me. Congregants? They couldn’t care less. I used the New American Standard Version (NASB) for a year or so, eventually moving to the English Standard Version (ESV). I was still preaching from the ESV when I left Christianity in November 2008. Devotionally, I read Eugene Peterson’s masterful translation, The Message. I found great joy and satisfaction when reading The Message translation. It was a Bible that truly spoke the language of the common man.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
