Bruce often directs questioning Christians to read books by Bart Ehrman. I wanted to suggest a couple of objective and scholarly books that a questioning Christian might also find useful. Both these books have never gone out of print and are available on Amazon, Kindle, and through bookstores. Your library may carry them, too. One of the books is about the historical Jesus and the other talks about millennialist and messianic groups.
When I was still going to church I would buy books about Christianity, and after I read them I would donate them to my church’s library. There was one that I couldn’t bear to give away, though. I found it when I was going through my bookshelves recently. It’s called The Changing Faces of Jesus by Geza Vermes, and it was published in 2000. (By the way, Bart Ehrman has an admiring post about Vermes on his website.)
Geza Vermes was a great scholar who wrote about the Dead Sea Scrolls and the historical Jesus. Vermes had a remarkable life. He was born in Hungary to Jewish parents. His parents converted to Catholicism for safety when Nazism was rising, but in spite of that, they were sent to concentration camps where they died. He survived and at one point became a Catholic priest. But eventually he left Catholicism and returned to Judaism.
He did an important translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls into English. And because of his Jewish origins, education, and experience as a practicing Christian at one point in his life, he was uniquely suited to be an expert on the historical Jesus. He wrote a number of books about Jesus, including this one.
In “The Changing Faces of Jesus” Vermes begins with an examination of how Jesus is depicted in the Gospel of John. Then he works his way back through the images of Jesus in Paul, in the Acts of the Apostles, and in the Synoptic Gospels (Luke, Mark, and Matthew). Finally, Vermes makes a pretty solid case about who the real Jesus was “beneath the Gospels.” I also liked how Vermes shows that Jesus was one of many Jewish miracle workers and messianic figures of his era, and Jesus wasn’t as original as he’s made out to be.
Vermes also has an epilogue at the end of the book about a dream he had after he finished writing the book. It’s my favorite part of the book, and, no, I’m not going to tell you why. You will have to read the book yourself and find out. The book is well written and easy for laypeople to understand.
The second book that I want to add to the list is When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group that Predicted the Destruction of the World. (In an earlier guest post I mentioned that this particular book dealt the death blow to my Christian faith.) Written by Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter, it was published in 1956. It first gives a historical overview of how messianic and millennialist groups, even when their messiahs don’t show up, or the world doesn’t end at the appointed times, often continue to carry on with their beliefs intact and even strengthened. The authors also follow a contemporary group of Americans who believed that superior beings from another planet were coming to take them to a higher planet, due to the group’s “higher density” compared to other Earthlings. Even though that event did not happen on the predicted day, some of the group stayed together and kept believing. Here’s a great quote from the beginning of the book:
A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point. We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks.
I hope other people will recommend solidly researched, objective, and interesting books for those who are questioning their Christian faith.
Happy reading and healthy questioning!
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The early days of Fall have arrived and the young preacher boy busily loads his possessions into a dilapidated, rusty Plymouth. It’s time for me to go, he says to his mom. He wonders what she thinks, her oldest son heading off to college, the first in their family to do so. They embrace, a rare expression of emotion, and the preacher boy quickly turns away, not wanting her to see the tears running down his face.
Soon the preacher boy is headed north and then east of Bryan, Ohio. Two hours later he arrives in Pontiac, Michigan, the community he will call home for the next three years. Midwestern Baptist College, A Character Building Institution, says the sign along Golf Drive. The preacher boy had planned to attend Prairie Bible Institute, but God had other plans for him.
The preacher boy parks his car in front of the dormitory, John R. Rice Hall, and quickly unloads his meager possessions. Tall and lean, the red-headed preacher boy, wearing a blue shirt with the number 75 and the name Rev. on the back, moves his possessions into room 207. The dormitory has two floors and a basement, with wings on either side of a common meeting room. The top floor houses the women. The first floor has two wings, one to each side of the meeting room. Students call one wing the Spiritual Wing, the other the Party Wing. The basement, for obvious reasons, is called The Pit.
The preacher boy lives on the Party Wing. There, he soon meets like-minded young men, filled with God, life, and recklessness. The preacher boy settles into the rhythm of dorm life at an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) college. Rules, lots of rules, and just as many ways to bend the rules to fit the desires of a youthful heart. The preacher boy would live in the dorm for two years, and in that time he would repeatedly run afoul of the rules. Told by many that he is brash and rebellious — a fitting description — he is said, by those who know him, to do his best to outwardly conform to the letter of the law.
The blue shirt the preacher boy wore when he arrived at the college was given to him by a girl who hoped he would remember her while he was away. Not long after, the shirt disappeared, as did any thought of its giver. If there is one thing that the preacher boy loves almost as much as God, it is girls. And here he is, enrolled at a college that will provide him ample opportunity to ply his charm. Little does he know that fate has a different plan.
The week before the official start of classes, a young, beautiful seventeen-year-old girl from Newark, Ohio moves into the dorm. The preacher boy mentions the girl to his roommate. Stay away from her, the roommate replies. Her father is Pastor Lee Shope. Unfazed by the stern warning, the preacher boy decides to introduce himself to the dark-haired beauty. He quickly learns she is quite shy. Not one to be at a loss for words, the preacher boy takes the girl’s backwardness as a challenge, one that he successfully conquers over the course of a few weeks.
Soon, all thoughts of the field fade into the beauty of the pastor’s daughter. The preacher boy quickly finds himself smitten. Come spring, he proposes and she, despite her mother’s adamant disapproval, says yes. Having known each other for two months short of two years, the preacher boy, now 21, and the pastor’s daughter stand before friends, family, and strangers and promise to love one another until death severs their bond.
Forty-three years have passed since the preacher boy and the pastor’s daughter pledged their troth. Under the proverbial bridge has flowed a shared life, one that has blessed them with a quiverfull of children and grandchildren. The grand plans of an idyllic pastorate, two children (a boy named Jason, a girl named Bethany), and a country parsonage with a white picket fence, perish in the rubble of the hard work necessary to parent six children and pastor churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Twenty-five years of working in God’s vineyard have left the preacher boy and the pastor’s daughter with deep, lasting scars. They have learned what it means to do without and suffer loss. Yet, they have endured.
Stoicism now defines them. As life has poured out its cruelties and left them wondering why, the preacher boy and the pastor’s daughter continue to hold one another tight, refusing to let adversity win. When their love for God wavered and then died a death of a thousand contradictions, the preacher boy and pastor’s daughter, now aged friends and lovers, joined their hands once more and walked into the dark unknown.
The full moon sits high above his home on this cold winter’s night. The clock on the nightstand clicks as each second passes by, a reminder that life is fleeting. The preacher boy, now a sixty-four-year-old atheist, turns his thoughts to the beautiful, dark-haired girl he met so many years ago. Who would ever have thought we would be where we are today? he says to himself. Yet . . . here we are, survivors, taking each and every day as it comes, without a prayer or a God to smooth the way. He wonders what tomorrow will bring, safe in the knowledge that whatever might come their way cannot defeat the enduring love of the preacher boy and the pastor’s daughter.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
At the age of fifty-four, my mother turned a .357 magnum Ruger revolver toward her chest and pulled the trigger. The bullet tore a hole in her heart and in a few moments she was dead. Mom had tried to kill herself many times before. This time she succeeded (please see the post Barbara).
When I was eleven, Dad had to call for an emergency squad because Mom had taken several bottles of prescription drugs. They rushed her to the hospital and pumped her stomach, and she survived to die another day. Later in the year, Mom and the neighbor lady were in a serious automobile accident in Lima. I say accident because it is possible that Mom pulled into the other lane of traffic, allowing the truck to hit them.
Mom made a third attempt on her life that same year. I came home from school and found Mom lying unconscious on the floor with blood pooling around her body. She had slit her wrists. Yet again, the emergency squad came, and her life was saved.
As best I can tell, Mom had mental problems her entire life. She was bright, witty, and well-read, but Mom could, in a split second, lapse into angry, incoherent tirades. Twice she was involuntarily committed to the Toledo State Mental Hospital, undergoing shock therapy numerous times. None of the treatments or drugs worked.
In the early 1960s, my parents found Jesus. Jesus, according to the Bible, healed the mentally ill, but, for whatever reason, he didn’t heal Mom. The mental health crises I have shared in this post, and others that I haven’t shared, all occurred after Mom put her faith and trust in the loving Jesus who supposedly had a wonderful plan for her life. Mom died believing Jesus was her Savior. To this day, I lament the fact that I didn’t do more to help her. Sadly, I saw her mental illness as an inconvenience and an embarrassment. If she just got right with God, I thought at the time, all would be well. If she would just kick her drug habit, I told her, God would be there to help her. What she really needed was for her eldest son to pick her up, hold her close, and love her. I will go to my grave wishing I had been a better son, that I had loved Mom and my family more than I loved Jesus and the church.
Mom, Bruce, and friend, Findlay, Ohio, summer 1971
Mom was quite talented. She played the piano and loved to do ceramics. Her real passion was reading, a habit she happily passed on to me. (Mom taught me to read.) She was active in politics. Mom was a member of the John Birch Society, and actively campaigned, first for Barry Goldwater, and later for George Wallace.
My parents divorced when I was fourteen. Not long after the divorce, Mom married her first cousin, a recent parolee from a Texas prison (he was serving time for armed robbery). He later died of a drug overdose. Mom would marry two more times before she died. She was quite passionate about anything she fixed her mind upon, a trait that I, for good or ill, share with her. In the early 1970s, Mom was an aide at Winebrenner Nursing Home in Findlay, Ohio. Winebrenner paid men more than they paid women for the same work. Mom, ever the crusader, sued Winebrenner under the Equal Pay Act and the Civil Rights Act. The Federal Court decided in her favor.
We moved quite often, and I have no doubt this contributed greatly to Mom’s mental illness. She never knew what it was to have a place to call home. Our family lived in one rental after another, never stopping long enough to buy a home. I lived in sixteen different houses by the time I left for college at the age of nineteen.
I have always wondered if my parents were ever happily married. Mom and Dad were married by an Indiana Justice of the Peace in November 1956. At the time of their marriage, Mom was eighteen and pregnant. I learned a year ago that Dad was not actually my biological father. Dad meant well, but the instability of their marriage, coupled with us moving all the time, caused my siblings and me great harm. Dad thought moving was a great experience. Little did he know that I hated him for moving us around. New schools (seven different school districts). New friends. Never having a place to call home. No child should have to live this way.
From the time I was five until I was fourteen, my parents were faithful members of a Baptist church in whatever community we lived in. The Gerencser family attended church every time the doors were open (I have attended over 8,000 church services in my lifetime). Mom would play the piano from time to time, though she found it quite stressful to do so. One time, much to my embarrassment, she had a mental meltdown in front of the whole church. She never played again. For a time, Dad was a deacon, but he stopped being one because he couldn’t kick his smoking habit. I suspect the real reason was that he was having an affair.
No matter where we lived or what church we went to, one thing was certain: Mom was mentally ill and everyone pretended her illness didn’t exist. Evangelical churches such as the ones we attended had plenty of members who suffered from various mental maladies. For the most part, those who were sick in the head were ignored, marginalized, or told to repent.
In 1994, I co-pastored a Sovereign Grace Baptist church in San Antonio, Texas. (See the I am a Publican and a Heathen series.) One day we were at a church fellowship and my wife came around the corner just in time to hear one of the esteemed ladies of the church say to her daughter, you stay away from that girl, she is mentally retarded. “That girl” was our then five-year-old daughter with Down syndrome. This outstanding church member’s words pretty well sum up how many churches treat those with mental handicaps or illness. STAY AWAY from them!
Many Christians think mental illness is a sign of demonic oppression or possession. No need for doctors, drugs, or hospitals. Just come to Jesus, the great physician, and he will heal you. After all, the Bible does say in 2 Timothy 1:7: For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. If someone is mentally unsound, it’s the person’s fault, not God’s. Get right with God and all will be well.
I have suffered with depression for most of my adult life. I am on the mountaintop one moment and in the valley the next. Plagued with a Type A personality, and being a consummate workaholic, I am often driven to despair. Work, Work, Work. Go, Go, Go. Do, Do, Do. I have no doubt that the way I lived my life as a Christian contributed to the health problems that now plague me. While I was busy burning the candle at both ends for Jesus, my body was screaming STOP! But I didn’t listen. I had no time for family, rest, or pleasure. Work for the night is coming, the Bible says. Better to burn out for Jesus than rust out, I told myself. And now, thanks to living this way for much of my adult life, I am a rusting 1957 Chevrolet, sitting on blocks, awaiting the day when the junkyard comes to tow me away.
For many years, I hid my depression from the outside world. While Polly and my children witnessed depression’s effect on their husband and father, church members never had a clue. I have often wondered how parishioners might have responded had I told them the truth. I suspect some church members would have seen me as a fellow depressive, but others would likely have questioned whether I was “fit” to be a pastor.
In 2008, a few months before I deconverted, I told a pastor friend that I was really depressed. Instead of lending me a helping hand or encouraging me, he rebuked me for giving in to the attack of Satan. He told me I needed to confess my sin and get victory over it immediately. A lot of Christians think just like this (former) pastor friend of mine. (Please see Dear Friend.) Depression is a sign of weakness, and God only wants warriors and winners.
Barbara Gerencser, 1956
Going to see a counselor was the single most important thing I have done in the last ten years. It took me leaving the ministry and departing from Christianity before I was willing to find someone to talk to. Several times, while I was still a Christian, I made appointments with counselors only to cancel them at the last minute. I feared that someone would see me going into the counselor’s office or they would drive by and see my car in the parking lot. I thought, My God, I am a pastor. I am supposed to have my life together.
Indeed, it took me leaving the church, the pastorate, and God to find any semblance of mental peace. I have no doubt some readers will object to the connection I make between religion and mental wellness, but for me, there was indeed a direct correlation between the two.
I still battle with depression, but with regular counseling and a (forced) slower pace of life, I am confident that I can live a meaningful, somewhat peaceful life. As many of you know, I have chronic, unrelenting pain. I have not had a pain-free day in over twenty years (my days are counted as less pain, normal pain, more pain, and off the fucking charts pain). The constant pain and debility (I was diagnosed with gastroparesis, an incurable stomach disease, last year) certainly fuel my depression. My counselor says she would be surprised if I wasn’t depressed from time to time. Embracing my depression and coming to grips with the pain and debility is absolutely essential to my mental well-being. This is my life. I am who I am. I accept this, and I do what I can to be a loving, kind, and productive human being.
To my Christian readers I say this: sitting near you in church this coming Sunday will be people who are suffering with mental illness. Maybe they are depressed. They hide it because they think they have to. Jesus only wants winners, remember? Pay attention to other people. The signs are there. Listen to those who you claim are your brothers and sisters in the Lord. Embrace them in the midst of their weakness and psychosis. While I don’t think a mythical God is going to heal them, I do think that loving, understanding friends can be just the salvation the mentally ill need.
It is not easy being around those who are mentally ill. Let’s face it, depressed people are not fun to be with. We are not the life of the party. When I am in the midst of mental and emotional darkness, I am not the kind of person most people want to be around. I become withdrawn, cynical, and dark. These attributes, coupled with the physical pain I endure, can, at times, make me unbearable to be around. It is at these moments when I need the help of others. Sadly, most people, including my family and friends, tend to pull away from me when I need them the most. I understand why they do so, but the loneliest place on earth is sitting alone in the darkness of night wishing you were dead.
How do you respond to people who are mentally ill? How do you respond to those who are depressed? Perhaps you suffer from mental illness or depression. Do you hide it? How are you treated by others? If you are a Christian, how are you treated by your church and pastor? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Another day, another post written by “Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen, Theologyarcheology, TEWSNBN) detailing his objections to something I have written or his continued hemorrhoidal inflammation over my writing style. If I responded to Tee every time he mentioned me on his blog, I wouldn’t write on anything else. So, I only respond to the fake doctor when his words are so egregious that I cannot ignore them.
One of the first things we are going to say is, if BG does not want to be disagreed with, he should stop putting his content out in public. He doesn’t like it when we use his words as teaching moments and trashes us every time that we do.
I don’t care one way or another if people disagree with me. What I do care about is when Fundamentalist Christians such as Tee lie about me, misrepresent my beliefs, or attack my character. Tee does these three things so often, it is safe for us to assume that doing so is just a part of who he is.
I am concerned that Tee has an unhealthy obsession with me. Even after I sent him scantily-clad pictures of me pole dancing at Santa’s Workshop, Tee continues to obsess over me. Maybe he wants an enlarged photo of me nekkid he can tape to the ceiling over his bed. (This is all sarcasm and snark, by the way. I charge big bucks for my stripper photos. No freebies, David.)
We wonder about him as he keeps mentioning the number of years he has spent in the ministry, the number of years he has believed in God, the Bible, and many other Christian activities.
I have explained “why” numerous times to Tee. The things mentioned by him are relevant to the work I do. Continuing to whine about it just makes Tee look jealous and petty.
Why he does it we do not know because he is not the first to do it and he is not the only one to spend decades believing in Christ. We are coming up to our 57th year. So he is not special nor is his story unique.
Tee knows exactly why I do it. I have politely explained it to him several times. His continued obsession with this is baffling.
I don’t believe I have ever said I am “special.” That said, my story is most certainly “unique.” Most clerics who leave the ministry or deconvert do so when they are younger. Rare is the pastor who walks away from twenty-five years in the ministry. It happens, but it’s not common.
There have been many more people who have turned from the faith and they did it long before he did. His deconversion is not the first nor is it unique; nor is his story something worth hearing.
Here, I believe, is Tee’s motivation for his continued personal attacks — jealousy. Tee toils away day after day writing blog posts few people read. (In his mind, God reads them and that’s all that matters.) Yet, the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist has thousands and thousands of readers — 750,000 page views this year. I have attracted loyal readers, many of whom regularly leave comments. Tee? Most of the comments on his blog come from readers of this site. Try as he might, he’s been unable to build a following. No longer a pastor or involved in any meaningful ministry, Tee’s only way of preaching is his blog. Thus, it is hard not to conclude that Tee is envious, bitter, covetous, and resentful over my success. Why doesn’t God bless and use his writing? Why does God allow a vile atheist to attract a large following, yet he labors in obscurity?
The information is all the same. In his post that we will look at here or at least key parts, he says nothing of value, nothing new, and nothing unique. Why he thinks people need to hear his story is beyond us. He is no one of note but just one of the many fools God spoke about when they say he does not exist.
Did you notice Tee spent the first five paragraphs trying to discredit me and make me look insignificant?
I am not, by nature, a prideful man. All I try to do every day is be open, honest, and authentic. While I don’t share every minute detail of my life, I have tried to be an open book. I think it is important for me to be as transparent as possible. I am accessible. Anyone who wants to contact me can easily do so.
Let me see if I understand Tee’s thinking here. He thinks my story is uninteresting, not worth telling, yet he blogs about things that Christians have been “blogging” about for 2,000 years. SMH.
It is up to readers of this blog to decide whether my story is “interesting.” I have been blogging since 2007. My deconversion story quickly caught the attention of Evangelicals and atheists alike. Is it my fault that people find my writing engaging and helpful (much as church members did with my preaching)? Millions of people have read my writing, many of whom are Evangelical or Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Christians. What Tee should be asking himself is why my story resonates with so many people –Christians and atheists alike.
“One of the hardest things for me to admit is that I, at one time, believed things that I now know to be untrue.”
We hear this a lot when we have discussions with atheists. They keep telling Christians that their God is not true, their Bible is a myth and their faith is based on nothing. However, not one atheist has provided any physical evidence to support their claims.
Not one. They just do not believe and then make these declarations like they are saying something that is powerful, unique, and wonderful. We have been told constantly by different atheists that the onus of proof is on us because we make extraordinary claims about God, Jesus, and the Bible.
I chose not to excerpt all of Tee’s word salad. I will say this: extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. Tee believes ghosts rape teen girls, virgins have babies, and humans walk on water, teleport, turn water into wine, and heal blindness with spit and dirt. Tee also believes there’s a Heaven and Hell, the universe was created in six twenty-four-hour days, and the earth is 6,024 years old. And then there’s his belief that a dead human named Jesus resurrected from the dead and ascended to the International Space Station. All of these claims are extraordinary in nature; claims which Tee provides no evidence for outside of quoting an ancient, errant, fallible religious text.
Memo to “Dr.” Tee: I don’t believe because the claims of Christianity make no sense to me. Want me to believe? Provide better evidence. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) The ball is in your court.
If anyone is living a life of folly, it is the atheist as they have nothing to look forward to, nothing to rely on, and nothing to share with anyone else. In other words, they are the fools for they think they have something when they have nothing at all.
Again, I chose not to excerpt parts of Tee’s word salad. In the deleted paragraphs, he repeatedly calls atheists “fools.” Aww, he hurt our feelings. Isn’t this the first slur Evangelicals go to when they have no answer to the claims of atheists? Tee sure spends a lot of time reading and responding to a fool, in direct disobedience to the Word of God. The Bible says Christians are not to answer a fool according to his folly.
I would rather follow the Bible and all of its commands than live a life like that. As you have noticed, we are not taking apart BG’s article sentence by sentence. he is really saying nothing new so we do not have to.
At least Tee admits that his post is a personal attack, not a response to something I wrote. How could he possibly take apart my post? It was a personal list of beliefs I held as an Evangelical. That’s it. A short reflection on crazy beliefs I once held.
You can click on that link and read them for yourselves [sic]. The key point is, he says those things are not what they claim or do not exist. BG and other atheists are great at making these comments but they all have one thing in common.
When you read his article, you will notice that he does not even attempt to support his claims. Not one shred of evidence is given that can be verified and double-checked for accuracy.
Sigh. The post was a list of ten beliefs I once held — most of which Tee himself believes. All Tee needs to do is use the search function on this site to find the plethora of words I have spilt on these subjects. Tee is being disingenuous when he says ” he does not even attempt to support his claims. Not one shred of evidence is given that can be verified and double-checked for accuracy.”
In danger of repeating ourselves, we do not know why he and his wife took that sudden turn to unbelief. Maybe he was like us and was treated poorly by other Christians.
Tee is not in danger of “repeating” himself. He crossed that line long ago in this post and other posts on his site. Tee knows EXACTLY why Polly and I aren’t Christians. To feign confusion on this issue is dishonest, to say the least.
Further, I have repeatedly addressed the claim that we were “hurt” by other Christians. Hurt played little to no part in our deconversions. Tee knows this, yet he continues to misrepresent my story and that of my wife. Again, it is obvious that the purpose of his post was to belittle and discredit me. That he felt the need to drag my wife Polly into his attack is reprehensible, to say the least. (David, if you read this post, Polly wants you to know you are a fucking asshole. Her words, not mine. Good job!)
We cannot say for sure but his decision to do so makes us sad every time we read some of his content. How can one be happy when another believer gives up his salvation for lies.
It is impossible to be cheerful when one thinks about it. We wish he could change back and then we could be happier knowing he will make it to heaven. But he has made up his mind and we are not going to press him on this issue.
Tee is “sad” that I am an atheist. Okay . . . don’t read my writing if it makes you sad. Tee’s feigned compassion and concern have never rung true with me. He routinely trashes me, yet he wants me to believe he is a kind, caring person. Behavior matters. I”m not buying what he is selling.
If Tee’s goal is to reclaim me for Jesus, he might want to rethink his tactics. His words have produced great harm to the cause of Christ. Forget what I think. Just ask the atheists and agnostics who read this blog what they think. Better yet, ask Evangelical readers what they think. I doubt Tee will find one reader of this blog who agrees with his approach to me personally and my writing.
Here’s what I know about the afterlife, if there is one. I want to be as far away as possible from the David Tees of the world. Hell is being in the same room with David Tee.
BG and the other atheists are wrong, of course. The Christian life is not folly and the atheist does not have some secret knowledge letting them know that the Bible is not true or that God does not exist.
It is the Christian that has the truth because Jesus exists, he did die for us and he did rise again. We have hope, love, and guidance along with something better than what the atheist offers.
Atheists don’t claim to have secret knowledge. It is Tee who claims he has secret knowledge, that which can only be known by saved, baptized, circumcised, and caramelized Christians. He is the one that says he “knows” the mind of God; that he “knows” exactly what the Bible teaches (even though 2,000 years of church history suggests otherwise).
Atheists have all that Evangelicals have and more. We have freedom. And that, above all else, is why atheism is superior to Christianity.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
One of the hardest things for me to admit is that I, at one time, believed things that I now know to be untrue. These fallacious beliefs had a deleterious effect on not only my life, but the lives of my wife, and the people who called me pastor. While everyone concerned would agree that we have escaped the consequences of my beliefs relatively unharmed, I can’t help but think how life might have been different had I not fallen for the greatest con game of all time: Evangelical Christianity.
On one hand, if I had not been raised in the Evangelical church nor attended an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) college, I never would have met my wife. Perhaps, in an alternate timeline, I might have met a woman with the same beauty, charm, and kindness as Polly. Perhaps, I say. I remember another woman I dated before Polly. I was madly in love with her, yet, as I look back on our torrid, tumultuous relationship, I know that had we married, we likely would have killed each other — literally. Choosing a different path doesn’t necessarily bring a better outcome. The old adage isn’t always true: the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
This I know for sure: I spent most of my life believing things that are not true. And not just believing these things, but putting them into practice. It’s one thing to believe the Christian God exists, but it is a far different thing, based on that belief, to devote one’s life to serving and worshiping this God. And not just serving him on Sunday, the day when he demands fealty from his followers, but as a devoted slave, I served this God day and night; day after day, year after year, for almost 50 years. This God, found only within the pages of an ancient religious text, promised that he would care for me in this life, and after death, he would grant me eternal life in a glorious pain-free Heaven.
Daniel Dennett is right: There’s no polite way to suggest to someone that they have devoted their life to folly. Indeed, a life of folly. While I can, if given sufficient libations, cry over the spilled milk of my life, I choose, instead, to use my past life as a soldier for Jesus as a cautionary warning to all who dare to follow in my steps. I stand along the road of life waving my arms, hoping to turn sincere followers of this God away from the bridge-less chasm that awaits on the road ahead. Take another path, I passionately warn. Sadly, most of this God’s slaves will ignore my warnings, thinking that I am the one who is deceived and in need of saving.
There are other people similar to myself, who, due to their blind devotion to religious belief, squandered the best years of their lives. How can we not regret giving the years when we were strong, healthy, and full of life, to a mythical deity? And worse yet, how can we not regret giving our time, talent, and (lots of) money to the human-built religious machine that drives over all who dare to get in its way?
Like other survivors of the Evangelical con, I have made an uneasy peace with my past. I have many regrets over how I spent most of my adult life. I know there’s nothing I can do about the past. I choose to learn from my past experiences, using them to fuel my writing, in the hope that I can, in some small way, play a part in bringing Evangelicalism to an ignominious end. While I will not live long enough to see its demise, I hope that one day one of my descendants will be the person who holds a pillow over the Evangelical God’s face and finally smothers him to death.
What follows is Bruce’s Top Ten List of Crazy Beliefs. Most former Evangelicals will certainly find this list to be quite similar to theirs.
The Bible is a God-inspired text, inerrant and infallible
The universe was created in six twenty four hour days and is 6,024 years
God talks to me
The story of the supernatural Jesus — all of it
There is an unseen Frank Peretti-like spiritual dimension inhabited by angels and demons
There is a shadow government, a Satan influenced cabal that runs the world
Demons possess people and inanimate objects such as toys
Satan uses certain styles of music to control the masses
Mental illness is caused by sin
Government schools destroy the minds of students
My Evangelical journey began and ended with the Bible. My devotion to God was fueled by the belief that the Bible was a God-inspired text. This text was inerrant and infallible, and the God who wrote it meant for me to obey its commands and teachings. Not only did this God expect me to obey, he also commanded me to teach others to do the same. And so I did. Thousands of people sat under the sound of my voice, hearing me declare that loving, serving, and worshiping the Evangelical God was the way to peace, blessing, the forgiveness of sins, and life everlasting.
Everything in my life flowed from my commitment to the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible. As Baptists are fond of saying: God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me! My journey out of Evangelicalism was complete when I came to realize that what I once believed about the Bible was not true; that my worldview was built upon an irrational, intellectually lacking foundation. Once the Bible lost its magical power over me, other beliefs, like the ones mentioned above, quickly unraveled. When my mind was finally unfettered by the Evangelical delusion, I was then free to seek truth wherever it may be found. No longer was I walled in by a set of beliefs that forced me to embrace irrationality. (Please see The Danger of Being in a Box and Why It Makes Sense When you Are in It and What I Found When I Left the Box) And much like most Evangelicals-turned-atheists/agnostics, I am grateful that skepticism, reason, and knowledge have set me free.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
“Dr.” David Tee, an elderly Evangelical preacher who lives in a basement somewhere in the Philippines, continues on an almost daily (hyperbole, David] basis to obsess over my writing and that of my friend Ben Berwick (Meerkat Musings). Also known around these parts as TEWSNBN (The Evangelical Which Shall Not Be Named), Tee sees himself as some sort of Evangelical pope, a man with a perfect understanding of the Bible. Tee is, to quote an old Bud-Light Commerical, a “Real Man of Genius.”
Believing his peculiar interpretations of the Bible are inerrant and infallible, Tee pontificates on anything and everything that runs afoul of his narrow Fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible.
Over the past two months, Tee — who has an oversized picture of me swinging naked from a stripper pole on his bedroom ceiling — has written the following posts about me:
On October 24, 2021, a man named Johann James, left the following comment on Tee’s blog:
I know Bruce Gerencser. I attended his church in Texas in the 90s. He’s a con-artist with lots of secrets.
Thank you for exposing this false prophet.
Tee replied:
We verified that he preached n Texas before approving this comment. If you have more things to say and want to keep it private, use our contact e-mail address.
James replied:
I dare not say more lest he come after me. His rainbow suspenders tell you all you need to know.
Some day, this false prophet will stand before God and then the truth will be known.
James added later:
I will tell you this much,…. the name of Christ.
I am not going to publish that information. It would need a lot of verifiable evidence to do that- theologyarchaeology
The part deleted by Tee said that Bruce Gerencser had been excommunicated from the church because he had an affair with a man. I hope Tee realizes by now that Johann James is not a real person. 🙂 The reasons for my excommunication from Community Baptist Church in Elemendorf, Texas are clearly articulated in the six-part series I Am a Publican and a Heathen.
Over the past week, Tee has even gone after MJ Lisbeth, a Transgender guest writer for this site, and my wife, Polly.
Tee’s post about MJ is titled, I am a Transgender Woman. When I first saw the title, I thought maybe the real David Tee (TheologyArcheology) was coming out of the closet. Alas, any sort of honesty coming from Tee is not to be. While Tee does not mention MJ by name (or several other Transgender people who regularly comment on this blog), I have no doubt MJ is the target of his vile prose:
Not us but the title reflects the mentality of many people who think there was a mistake at birth. If you believe that a person can change their gender or that there are more than two, you would be in error.
This is a deception that many people have fallen for and have come under the spell of evil. Unhappy with their birth gender, evil has found a way to get people to follow and accept a lie.
Supporting such people and accepting their deception as normal is not right. It is as wrong as claiming to be a different gender than your birth gender. God made only two genders and you are one or the other.
Even science has found that out. Yet, science is often used to perpetuate the deception and its knowledge and abilities are used to alter the body of a man or a woman. That is the wrong use of science and scientific knowledge.
The wrong use of science also leads to a wrong use of political power as well. Hoping to get votes, politicians try to appease those who are deluded and create sinful laws to make sure those deceived people are accepted as normal.
Do not follow those scientists or politicians, etc., who side with the transgender community or support it. You would be siding with evil if you do.
The way to lead these people to the truth is by following God’s instruction. It will not be done through might, but by the power of God. We do not need to make laws to stop this trend.
We need the wisdom and understanding from God as well as his power to know how to proceed. Only God can release these people from the deception so rely on him to help you handle these situations when they arise.
If the transgender refuses to listen to you or let Christ change them, do not accept them. Just let them go on their merry way. Just do not let them into the church leadership or have a say in the church operation.
They have rejected the truth and have nothing to offer the church or the Christian.
In his post titled Do Not Listen to Unbelievers, Tee had this to say about Polly and her preacher husband (my short, pithy comments are in [ ]:
God cannot be more clear than that. it is said throughout the Bible that the unbeliever is lost, deceived, and blind. [Yet, we can see right through Tee’s bullshit.] Jesus also told us that the unbelieving world does not have the Spirit of Truth guiding them to the truth.
That means you cannot get to the truth through the unbelievers’ words. [Sure you can. Tee does it all the time. He came to the “truth” about Bruce and Polly” by reading the words of an unbeliever — me. 🙂 Damn, skippy. Sure stepped in that one.] Yet many people who were once Christian have done the opposite of God’s directive and the end result was, they lost their faith.
One prime example is BG and his wife. We have spent some time reading his website trying to understand how he went from a believer to an unbeliever [This is a lie. Tee reads my blog to provide fodder for his site.]. One of the clearest pieces of evidence that we found was his own admission that they read and listened to those who did not have the truth nor knew Jesus:
[quote from my post] “For most of 2008, I had been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of Christianity and the Bible. From Bart Ehrman to Robert M. Price to Elaine Pagels, I read dozens of books that challenged and attacked my Christian beliefs.”
Except for Mr. Price, we have read those same authors, including similar ones that BG did not mention. Yet we asked God [instead of truth, reason, and skepticism.] to guide us through those words and we came to the exact opposite conclusion that BG did. [Tee allegedly read all of these authors, but never mentions them on his site. Why is that?]
We saw where those authors erred and ignored their conclusions, with God’s help. They are all unbelievers who do not accept the Bible nor accept Christ as their savior. They are classified as scholars and some people get confused when the word scholar is used. [Tee believes there is no truth outside of the Bible. Everything must be strained through the sieve of his peculiar interpreation of the Protestant Christian Bible.]
They think those educators, speakers, and authors have an inside track to the Christian faith. They do not. [We follow truth wherever it leads.] and they spend a lot of their time, like Mark Goodacre does, and ignore the truth.
[quote from my post] “I often read large passages of this or that book to her and we would compare what we had been taught with what these books said. While Polly was never one to read nonfiction, she did read several of Bart Ehrman’s books. Over time, both of us came to the conclusion that what we had been taught wasn’t true.”
Comparison is not wrong as it can help you sort out who is a false teacher and who is not. The question is who are you listening to? [Truth, reason, skepticism, common sense.] Bart Ehrman started out as an unbeliever like the rest of us, became saved when he was young, and then lost his faith over some off-hand remark made by the late Dr. Metzger (that story of his changes in Dr. Ehrman’s many retellings). [Ehrman’s deconversion is more complex than Tee suggests. I have actually read almost all of his books.I wonder how many of Ehrman’s books Tee actually has on his three shelf Sauder bookshelf.]
The question for BG, his wife, and other unbelievers is why would you take a human’s word over God’s words? Especially when those authors do not believe in God and write against the Bible and its truth. [The Bible is human words, not God’s. Why would I treat the Bible as anything other than a human book. Asserting that the Bible is God’s Words doesn’t make it so.]
[quote from my post] “After we decided in 2005 we no longer wanted to be Pastor and Mrs. Bruce Gerencser, we spent a few years trying to find a church that took seriously the teaching of Jesus. Not finding such a church frustrated us and led us to conclude that the Christianity of Jesus no longer existed, and most churches were just different flavors of ice cream; same base ingredients with different added flavors.”
This is a controversial method to try. BG did not give us the criteria that he used to come to the conclusion that many churches did not practice or follow Jesus’ teaching.
It was very unfair of him to do this as he was standing in judgment of others, something that God said not to do. [Yet, Tee daily passes judgment on people he disagrees with. Judging others is fine. We all do it. To suggest otherwise is a denial of how humans think and behave.] it is also very subjective. Who says that every church practicing the true teachings of Jesus will do it in the same manner as BG and his wife demand? [Tee is straining at gnats and swallowing camels. He knows what criteria we used to judge these churches. Besides, doesn’t the Bible say that there is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism? Sure seems like there’s an objective (and practical) standard by which to judge churches.]
Then, their response to this lack of discovery was for them to give up Jesus and salvation. [Yes, we followed truth wherever it led.] Where was their commitment to Jesus? [There was no Jesus to commit to. He’s dead.] There is a song that every believer has sung at least once in their lives and one of the verses goes like this: ‘if no one joins me, still I will follow…’
So, no one joined BG and his wife and their response is to give up and join those churches that did not practice the true teachings of Jesus.[This sentence makes no sense.] There was something wrong in their thought processes as they did not even give Jesus a chance and they fled the moment they found themselves alone. [Uh, we were Christians for almost fifty years. We gave Jesus more than a “fair” chance. In fact, even now, if Jesus showed up at our door we would listen. So far, the only people who show up are the David Tees of the world. Jesus definitely has a PR problem.]
Much like the disciples fled when Jesus was arrested by unbelievers. Also, BG and his wife were very unfair to those churches as they placed the responsibility of their decision on those churches, not themselves. [Are you not making a judgment, the very practice you decry above? Hypocrite.]
Those churches did not force or encourage BG and his wife to give up their faith. That decision is the complete responsibility of BG & his wife. [And I have never said otherwise.] There is one more important point to make here.[Did you make an important point to start with?]
BG and his wife still had the opportunity to follow Jesus, start their own church, and lead their new members in following the true teachings of Christ. Yet, they decided to give up their faith instead. That is not a smart move to make. [Sure it is. We are happy, and that, my friend, is the only thing that matters.]
….
The Bible tells us that the way to salvation is straight and narrow, and FEW FIND IT. Do not be one of the majority and flee to the broad way just because you want company.
Jesus should be enough for everyone [Bruce and Polly] even when other humans are not helping out. God and Jesus are real [no evidence provided], they alone have the truth and have given it to us through the Bible.
Do not listen to unbelievers[Bruce and Polly] for many [Bruce and Polly] have given up and rather live their lives out as best as they can. That is not a good life to live. For humans can abandon you [Bruce and Polly] in that situation as well.
Tee’s post is littered with lies, half-truths, and mischaracterizations. In other words, a typical response by TEWSNBM. I have no problem with people interacting with and critiquing my writing. In fact, I encourage such responses. I just wish Evangelical interlocutors would at least “try” to be honest and represent me accurately. Surely, that would be the Christian thing to do, right?
I am sure this post will provoke a response from TEWSNBM. And thus the circle of life shall continue. 🙂 As you can see, I have pretty much ignored Tee’s recent posts about me. And I will continue to so do. I will occasionally respond to him, sending a few readers to his site (99% of his few commenters are readers from this site). I will not, however, allow his screeds to distract me from my calling: to advance my stripper Santa image. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Polly and Bruce Gerencser, Our Father’s House, West Unity, Ohio Circa 2000
Several years ago, Kenneth asked:
I am currently married to a Southern Baptist woman who is likely never going to change her mind about her beliefs. I deconverted late last year and am now an atheist. I’m curious as to how your wife ended up an atheist seemingly around the same time as you? I guess deep down I want her to see my views as an atheist but if anyone knows how hard it is to talk to a Christian as an atheist, it is you. My question is, can you tell us more about how Polly came to the same conclusions as you during the time of your deconversion? Maybe she can give us some input too. In a lot of scenarios, one spouse is still stuck as a believer while both the atheist and theist struggle with now being in a “mixed” marriage — I’m in one of them now. Thanks!
After we decided in 2005 we no longer wanted to be Pastor and Mrs. Bruce Gerencser, we spent a few years trying to find a church that took seriously the teaching of Jesus. Not finding such a church frustrated us and led us to conclude that the Christianity of Jesus no longer existed, and most churches were just different flavors of ice cream; same base ingredients with different added flavors. (Please see But Our Church is DIFFERENT!) The last church we attended was Ney United Methodist Church, four blocks from our home
For most of 2008, I had been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of Christianity and the Bible. From Bart Ehrman to Robert M. Price to Elaine Pagels, I read dozens of books that challenged and attacked my Christian beliefs. Polly and I spent many a night discussing what I had read. I often read large passages of this or that book to her and we would compare what we had been taught with what these books said. While Polly was never one to read nonfiction, she did read several of Bart Ehrman’s books. Over time, both of us came to the conclusion that what we had been taught wasn’t true. We also concluded that we were no longer, in any meaningful sense, Christian. The last Sunday in November 2008, we walked out of Ney United Methodist, never to return. Several months later, I wrote the infamous Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners, which I sent to hundreds of Evangelical family members, friends, and former church members.
For a time, both of us were content calling ourselves agnostics. I soon realized that the agnostic label required too much explanation, so I embraced the atheist label. While Polly is hesitant to use the atheist moniker, her beliefs about God, Christianity, and the Bible are similar to mine. She’s not one to engage in discussion or debate, content to go about her godless life without having to define herself. I often wish I could be like her.
When we left Christianity, I feared that Polly’s deconversion was a coattail deconversion; that she was following after me just like she was taught to do in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church. Some of my critics, unwilling to give Polly credit for doing her own thinking and decision-making, have suggested that Polly was/is being led astray by me. Fundamentalist family members have voiced their concern over Polly being drawn into my godlessness, rarely giving her credit for being able to think and reason for herself. Their insinuations only reinforce her belief that she made the right decision when she deconverted. Polly graduated second in her high school class and has a college degree. She is quite capable of thinking for herself. Granted, this ability was quashed for many years thanks to being taught that she should always defer to me as the head of the home. That I was also her pastor only made things worse. I can confidently say that Polly is her own person, and her unbelief is her own.
Where our stories diverge a bit is the reasons why we deconverted. While both of us would say we had intellectual reasons for abandoning God and Christianity, Polly’s deconversion had a larger emotional component than mine did. We’ve spent countless hours talking about the past, this or that church, and the experiences each of us had. Polly spent most of her married life under the shadow of her preacher husband. I’m amazed at how differently she views our shared past, now free to speak openly. While I was the center of attention, heaped with praise and love, she was in the shadows, the afterthought, the one who had to do all the jobs church members had no time for. It should come as no surprise that her view of the 25 years we spent in the ministry is much different from mine.
As I’m writing this post I am thinking to myself, Polly needs to be telling this story. I can’t tell her story. While I can give the gist of it, I think it is better if she tells her story, that is if she is willing to do. I do know that she has no desire to relive the “wonderful” ministry years. She’s quite content to be free of God, the church, and the Bible, free to just be Polly. Not Polly, the pastor’s daughter, not Polly, the preacher’s wife, just Polly. And I can say the same for myself. While I am noted for being a preacher-turned-atheist, an outspoken critic of Evangelicalism, I am content just to be Bruce. Most of our life was swallowed up by the ministry, so we are quite glad to be free and we enjoy the opportunity to live our lives on our own terms.
In many ways, our story is not typical. I’ve received scores of emails from people who deconverted and are now in mixed marriages. Like Kenneth, they want to share their unbelief with their spouses, but are unable to do so because of their spouse’s Christian beliefs or because they fear outing themselves will destroy their marriages. (Please see Count the Cost Before You Say I Am an Atheist.) Polly and I fully realize that if one of us had remained a Christian it could (would?) have ended our marriage. We are grateful that we’ve been able to walk this path together hand in hand. The farther away we get from the years we spent in the ministry, the more we realize how good we have it. Our deconversion could have destroyed our marriage and alienated us from our children, but it didn’t. Instead, we’ve been given a new lease on life; the opportunity for each of us to seek our own path. We deeply love one another, have six wonderful children and thirteen grandkids, and are, in every way, b-l-e-s-s-e-d.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Son number four stopped over after work and he is sleeping on the couch. He is babysitting Bethany so Polly and I can go to Grand Rapids and eat pizza at a restaurant for which we have a Groupon.
Son number three dropped off his two youngest so we could babysit them for a bit. He knows that we are going out tonight and he said he would be on time to pick them up. I thought, sure you will. Five p.m. and son number three walks through the door. He’s early. I make a mental note to put a gold star beside his name. Maybe he has finally learned to tell time.
Polly and I both scurried around getting ready for our big night on the town. As we got ready to walk out the door I said to Polly, I am driving tonight. She said, really? I gave her THAT look and took the keys. She is likely wondering if this will be her last day on earth.
After we picked up our mail, we drove east on Route 15. As I put the turn signal on to turn left at The Bend Road, Polly said, what are you doing? I replied, I am going up to Route 6. Polly: No we need to take old Route 24. I said, I really think we need to take Route 6. No, she was certain we needed to take old Route 24. So we took Route 24.
I was right.
And we didn’t even fight about it.
Maybe there is hope for our marriage.
The pizza joint only had one waitress on the floor and was totally unprepared for the extra customers the Groupon would bring. It took her 20 minutes to get our drinks. The owner finally came out to help her take orders and proceeded to service the three tables that were seated after us. The pizza was okay, nothing special, and I doubt that we will drive 40 minutes to eat it again.
Before going home we decided to stop at Meijer in Defiance. Polly needed a belt and I needed acetaminophen to replace the government-mandated acetaminophen reduction in my Vicodin prescription.
As we walked in the door, I looked down the long main aisle by the registers and I saw Bob, a former church member. I thought, Oh shit. I told Polly, hurry . . . there’s Bob and I don’t want him to see us. If it were just him, all would be well, but I knew his wife Margo would not be far away (names changed to protect the guilty),
I met Bob and Margo almost 20 years ago when I pastored Olive Branch Christian Union Church in Fayette. When I left Olive Branch and moved five miles south to West Unity to start a church, they came along with me.
Bob is a quiet man, content to sit in the background and not say a word. Margo more than makes up for him, a constant talker regardless of whether she has anything to say.
Margo’s sister attended the church when she could. She was home-bound most of the time and couldn’t drive. Countless times we picked her up for church or took her to a doctor’s visit an hour away in Toledo. Her sister? Margo couldn’t be bothered and would demand gas money for every trip she made to her sister’s house.
Bob and Margo attended the church infrequently and never could get there on time. It was not uncommon for them to arrive at the morning service 20 minutes before it was over. I often wondered why they bothered.
When we remodeled the church nursery, Margo bought some Jesus Junk® to hang on the wall. (I could write a whole post on Jesus Junk® donated to the churches I pastored over the years. Lighted velvet Jesus anyone?) She wrote her name on the back of the plaque she paid a dollar for at a garage sale and told me she wanted it back if we ever stopped using it. When we closed the church, with great delight, I threw the plaque away.
Somewhere in the late 1990s Bob and Margo stopped attending the church. According to Margo, I committed a terrible sin by allowing the women of the church to have a rummage sale IN the church building. Bob? He never said a word and followed Margo out the door.
Good riddance.
When I saw Bob I knew we needed to run as fast as we could. If they saw us they would — well she would — want to talk to us. Then we would have to spend 20 minutes pretending that we were friends.
I didn’t like Margo when I was her pastor. She was a gossipy, self-centered narcissist. I may have had to be her pastor, but I didn’t have to be her friend. So, when I saw Bob I knew we had to practice our avoidance technique, a skill we have honed to perfection since leaving the ministry and Christianity.
We got all of our shopping done and made our way to the checkout. As I looked down the long aisle I saw that Bob was still sitting there. I thought, nothing has changed. Still waiting on her to talk her way through the store. I told Polly, we need to check out on this end. Bob is still there. She replied, are you sure it is Bob? I said, yes I am sure. So we used the self-checkout, bagged our purchases, and started to make our way out of the store . . .
I looked up for a moment and there were Bob and Margo. I thought, shit. I said to Polly, there they are . . . hurry. I DON’T want to talk to them. We quickly made our way out the door and into the parking lot, avoiding having to play the Fake Friends Game® for the umpteenth time.
I used to feel guilty when I avoided former church members in the store, but I don’t anymore. Most of them aren’t like Bob and Margo, but coming face to face with them still requires us to make polite talk without mentioning the horns that are on our heads. Everyone knows that Pastor Bruce Gerencser is now an atheist. They read the letters in the paper and they have bumped into other Christians who have said, DID YOU KNOW? By now, I assume everyone knows.
So we avoid people. This is not the kind of people we are, but we hate chit-chatting and pretend-we-are-friendsconversations. It is not that we hate them personally or dislike them. It’s just that we don’t have anything in common with them any more. I am sure some of them have done the same thing when they see Polly and me in the distance at one of the local stores.
How about you? How do you deal with running into people from your Christian past? Do you avoid them? Do you feel uncomfortable talking to them? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, I received the following email (sent twice) from an Evangelical man named Bill Clark. Clark is a Christian psychologist at Valleydale Christian Counseling in Birmingham, Alabama. (Clark is a recommended counselor on Focus on the Family’s website.) His business bio states:
Dr. Clark’s experience is unique in that he worked simultaneously in a community mental health center as the Clinical Director/Assistant Executive Director and in private practice as a professional Christian counselor since 1983. His knowledge of psychological and spiritual issues has allowed him to integrate both disciplines into a holistic approach that addresses the body, mind, and soul.
Dr. Clark has been a Licensed Professional Counselor in the State of Alabama since 1985. He specializes in a variety of problem areas: mood and anxiety disorders, marital and family conflict, anger management, domestic violence, and stress management. He is certified by the National Board of Certified Counselors. Dr. Clark is also a Counseling Supervisor in the State of Alabama. He provides supervision to those seeking licensureas professional counselors.
Dr. Clark has a Ph.D. in Psychology from North Central University, a Doctor of Ministry degree (D.Min.) in Christian counseling from Luther Rice Seminary, a Master’s degree in Christian counseling from Trinity International University, a Master’s degree in Psychology from Eastern Kentucky University, and a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from the University of North Alabama.
In March 2015, Dr. Clark retired from community mental health with over 32 years of service. In September of the same year, he relocated his private practice to Huntsville, Alabama and was there for 4 years. In September 2019, he retired again and moved to Birmingham to be closer to his children. In December 2020, he came out of retirement and opened Valleydale Christian Counseling.
Clark makes all sorts of claims, so I thought I would respond to him with a post. My response is indented and italicized.
I find it quite interesting that your 25 years of pastoring is strewn with multiple resignations and even one excommunication.
Pastors typically change churches every three or four years. The reasons for this are many, but there’s nothing nefarious about my ministerial record. I have openly admitted that I have wanderlust; that I bore easily. I make no apology for being who I am. Most people change jobs numerous times over their lifetime. Why should I be faulted for doing the same?
The first church I worked for was Montpelier Baptist Church in Montpelier, Ohio. I was the church’s assistant pastor — an unpaid position. After seven months, I resigned and we moved to Newark, Ohio.
The second church I worked for was Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio. This was a new Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church my father-in-law and I planted. I served as Dad’s assistant for two and half years, working primarily with the church’s youth. In June of 1983, I resigned from the church to go start a new church in Somerset, Ohio.
The third church I worked for was Somerset Baptist Church — a new church plant in Somerset, Ohio. I pastored Somerset Baptist for eleven years, resigning in 1994 to become the co-pastor of a Sovereign Grace Baptist church in Elmendorf, Texas.
The fourth church I worked for was Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas. I was the church’s co-pastor. After seven months of conflict between my fellow pastor, Pat Horner, and me, I resigned. Horner refused to accept my resignation, saying the church had to grant me permission to leave. Days later, we packed up our belongings and returned to Ohio. The day we were leaving, the church held a business meeting and excommunicated me. (Please see I Am a Publican and a Heathen — Part One.)
The fifth church I worked for was Olive Branch Christian Union Church in Fayette, Ohio. I resigned after seven months.
The sixth church I worked for was Grace Baptist Church, renamed Our Father’s House, in West Unity, Ohio. I pastored Our Father’s House for seven years. I resigned in 2002, and did not pastor again until 2004. We spent most of 2003 in Yuma, Arizona, hoping the weather would bring improvements to my health.
The seventh church I worked for was Victory Baptist Church in Clare, Michigan — a Southern Baptist congregation. This would be last church I pastored. I left Victory Baptist after seventh months. We moved to Newark, Ohio to live near Polly’s parents, and in 2005 we returned to northwest Ohio where we remain to this day.
Every church is a different chapter in my life. (Please see What Happened to the Churches I Pastored?) I had successes and failures at every church I pastored. All of them grew numerically, yet with four churches I had seven-month tenures. Why is that? I have often wondered about significance of seven months. Coincidence? I still haven’t come to a satisfactory answer.
In the case of Olive Branch, an old, old, old established denominational church (the only such church I pastored), I grossly underestimated how dysfunctional and entrenched the congregation was. I was not the man to lead them. All of the men who pastored the church after me were retired ministers, elderly men content to maintain the status quo. I was thirty-eight, a man with a church planting background; a man with an entrepreneurial spirit; a man who had grand plans for an old, inwardly grown church. The church and I were a bad fit.
I never should have pastored Victory Baptist Church. I had numerous opportunities to pastor, yet because Victory contacted me first, I felt obligated to become their pastor. (I have a hard time saying no.) The church was, by far, the most dysfunctional church I ever pastored. I thought, at the time, I can “fix” this church. I naively saw myself as a man who could ride in and rescue dying churches. I now know better. Dysfunctional churches know they need to change, but cannot or will not do what’s necessary to do so. Many of them should be left along the side of the road to die. Such churches go through pastors one after another, chewing them up and spitting them out (with the blame always being ascribed to the chewed up pastors).
Things came to a head at Victory over some toys that a church member (who wanted to be a preacher) put in the nursery. I asked her not to put the toys in the nursery. They were unsafe. She ignored my request, so I took the toys out of the nursery. This led to conflict. A church meeting was called to settle the conflict. The meeting quickly became heated. I had told the church before I became their pastor that I had no heart for conflict. I was flat worn out. Conflict came anyway, and at the conclusion of the meeting where it was decided the unsafe toys had to be returned to the nursery, I resigned. Two years later, the church closed, unable to find anyone to pastor them.
The circumstances surrounding my resignation (and excommunication) from Community Baptist Church are explained in the series I Am a Publican and a Heathen.
And finally, I left the first church I worked for, Montpelier Baptist Church, primarily for financial reasons. Unable to secure a good-paying job (the church refused to help us financially in any way), we decided to move to Newark, and live with Polly’s parents for a few months. I secured employment with Arthur Treacher’s as a general manager. Polly took a job at Licking County Christian Academy, teaching third grade. Leaving Montpelier Baptist was the best thing for me to do for my family. I make no apology for doing so.
I am now sixty-four years old, an atheist, and a humanist. I have had fourteen years to reflect on the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry. Counseling has helped me take inventory of my ministerial career, and life in general. I have made a lot of mistakes, but who hasn’t, right? I have tried to be open and honest about my past, owning my mistakes and poor decisions.
Your behavior was characterized by being blunt, abusive, arrogant, temperamental, and unteachable.
Characterized by whom? Temperamental and direct? Sure. But abusive, arrogant, and unteachable? Nope. Who is making these claims? If Clark is going to make provocative claims such as these, he needs to provide evidence for them. Not a disgruntled member here and there — every church has them. I know of no former church member who has said these things — and I have interacted in recent years with scores of people who once called me Preacher or Pastor.
I am certain that no evidence from Clark will be forthcoming.
Those watching on the sidelines correctly predicted that you would eventually spin out.
Who predicted I would “spin out” (whatever the hell that means)? If people predicted I would “spin out,” I would love to know who they are; people who at the moment believed I would one day lose my faith and become an atheist? Much like the people who claim I was never a Christian, there’s no evidence that I was anything but a devoted follower of Jesus; a man who loved the people he pastored and tried to minister to their needs.
As I stated above, I am certain that no evidence from Clark will be forthcoming.
Unfortunately, it did happen and you appear to have carried all of the psychological baggage with you.
The reasons for how I have lived my life are many. Live long enough and you will have baggage. My life is what it is. Would I do some things differently? Of course. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, right? Unfortunately, there are no do-overs in life. I own my life, as it is, hoping to do better every day.
You have just switched sides and maintained the same character defects.
At this point, I am ready to sigh. Clark only read a handful of posts on this site, so it’s evident that he hasn’t read most of my autobiographical writing. Would it have made a difference if he had? Probably not. Clark “knows” what he knows. He has weighed my life in the balance and found it wanting. That’s the price I pay for being transparent about my life.
Maybe it runs deep, Bruce and you ought to drill down on your family of origin issues.
What runs deep? Family of origin issues? What do I need to know about my family that I don’t already know? Again, I have been open and honest about my upbringing. What does Clark know that I don’t? Or is he just making shit up, hoping to cause me psychological harm?
Honestly, no one cares to read or listen to your rants anymore. You have become irrelevant.
Finally, we get to Clark’s motivation for writing what he did about me. He doesn’t like my writing. I suspect it angers and upsets him. And instead of asking himself why that is, Clark attacks the messenger — a classic Evangelical tactic.
Clark says that no one cares to read my writing anymore; that I have become irrelevant. This site’s traffic numbers suggest otherwise. Another classic Evangelical tactic: try to minimize my influence, suggesting that no one reads my blog, when, in fact, this site will serve up 750,000 page views this year. I have done more newspaper, podcast, and video interviews this past year than any other time. Evidently, I am not as irrelevant as Clark says I am.
Give it up.
Not a chance. As long as I am physically able to write, I will continue to do so.
Postscript
After sending this post off to Carolyn, my editor, to edit, I decided to see if I could find “Bill Clark” online — which took me all of ninety seconds. Clark used the email address associated with his business to email me, and since it was listed on his website, he was not hard to find.
I was surprised to learn that Clark is a licensed counselor with over thirty-five years of experience. I have been seeing a secular counselor for years. I can’t imagine my counselor ever writing an email such as the one Clark sent me. Not only is Clark’s email judgemental and ill-informed, it is also unprofessional. I can’t remember a time I have ever written a stranger such an email. Instead of attacking my character, perhaps Clark might want to look in a mirror. As a supposed follower of Jesus, he might want to ask himself if Jesus would have sent such an email. WWJD! Perhaps Clark would like me to list all the teachings and commands found in the Bible he broke with his email to me, you know the verses about how to treat your enemies, or the verses about lying and corrupt communication, or the verses about the fruit of the Spirit. Maybe, Clark was just pissed off over my writing and responded accordingly.
Long-time readers know about the dysfunctional home I grew up in. They know about my Mom’s mental health problems, drug addiction, multiple suicide attempts, and eventual successful suicide. They know that my dad was not my biological father (which I learned a year ago). They know I moved numerous times as a child, attending a new school every year or two. They know I grew up in poverty, experiencing things no child should ever have to experience. They know my life is messy and complex. Yet, they continue to read my writing. Some readers have been following me for fourteen years — Loki bless them. 🙂 Why do so many people read my writing? Why do scores of people email me each year asking for my help? I suspect people read my writing because it resonates with them. Why do so many people thank me for being a help to them? I suspect my story rings true to them; that my story gives authenticity to their own. They see a preacher who is willing to be honest about what really goes on in Evangelical churches, a pastor who dares to share club secrets. And that’s always been my goal: to help other people. I don’t care one wit about what the Bill Clarks of the world think about me. Such people are buzzing gnats around my head on a warm summer day. Annoying to be sure, but a quick swat puts an end to that. Consider yourself swatted, Dr. Clark.
Let me conclude by talking about the successes I have experienced in life: forty-three years of marriage to a beautiful, wonderful heathen; six grown children who are gainfully employed and think for themselves; thirteen wonderful grandchildren (all of whom live twenty minutes or less from our home). We own our own home and drive a 2020 Ford Edge. After retiring, I returned to a hobby from my youth: collecting O-gauge Lionel trains. I am a professional photographer. I look like Santa Claus (or an Amish man, Jewish Rabbi, or an Italian mobster, depending on the coat and fedora I’m wearing). Man, I am b-l-e-s-s-e-d. Ho! Ho! Ho! I am also proud of all this blog has become over the years. Millions and millions of pageviews, countless new acquaintances, and a bushel or so of people I consider friends. I am grateful that I have had such wonderful people come alongside me as I struggle with chronic pain and illness; people who love me as I am and respect the work I do.
And now, it’s time for me to tell Bill Clark to fuck off. 🙂
Thank You!
After this post went live, Clark took down his business website.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In 1995, there was a popular contemporary Christian song entitled “Jesus Freak.” Its topic was commitment to Jesus, even at great personal cost. The song, written and performed by DC Talk, included a stanza about John the Baptist and how he was beheaded by King Herod because John refused to compromise when it came to telling the truth.
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There ain’t no disguising in the truth.
The lyrics came back to me recently when I read that Kevin Max, one of the band members who wrote and performed that song, announced he is an “ex-evangelical.”
The news was stunning, and I felt quite grieved inside.
How could this man, who was a very devoted Christian, at least by the evidence of the songs he helped to write and sing, now declare publicly that he has left the faith he once defended? On a broader scale, how could anyone who has had genuine fellowship with Jesus choose to reject the gospel and walk away from Him?
It’s hard to fathom, but sadly it happens. And even more sadly, it seems to be happening more frequently in our day.
….
Not surprisingly, there is a common theme among these defections from Christianity. They view the gospel message as being too narrow and, in doing so, reject the biblical doctrine regarding sin. They have come to the conclusion it is too harsh.
….
Those who choose to walk away from Christianity do so to embrace a philosophy that is contrary to the Bible but is more palatable to us as fallen sinners. They desire a different Jesus than the One revealed in scripture.
Simply put, they desire a Jesus who does not judge sin. They desire a Jesus (or a Jesus-like Messiah) who offers heaven to all without regard to the penalty of sin. Kevin Max even sings about a “universal Christ” in his songs these days. But this Jesus does not exist.
Sadly, the decisions we live with today we die with tomorrow. And then what for those who have rejected Jesus as their Savior?
This is how it is stated in John 3:17-18: “God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the Name of God’s one and only Son.”
The choice belongs to us.
According to Dunn, people deconstruct/deconvert for the following reasons:
They view the gospel as too narrow
They reject the Biblical doctrine of sin
They embrace a philosophy contrary to the Bible
They desire a Jesus different from the one revealed in the Bible
They desire a Jesus that does not judge sin
They desire a Jesus who offers Heaven to everyone
Readers know what I am going to say next: sigh. Why is it that Evangelical preachers think it is their duty to ‘splain why people leave their churches? Dunn gives six reasons people deconstruct/deconvert; six reasons that not one former Evangelical would say were the primary motivators for their loss of faith. It’s evident that Dunn hasn’t spent much if any time actually talking to former Evangelicals, reading their blogs, or listening to their podcasts. Seek and ye shall find, Pastor Dunn.
Dunn admits that an increasing number of people are walking (running) away from Evangelicalism. And not just church members, either. Pastors, evangelists, missionaries, worship leaders, musicians, professors — men and women trained in theology — are deconstructing/deconverting in record numbers.
Dunn says:
How could anyone who has had genuine fellowship with Jesus choose to reject the gospel and walk away from Him? It’s hard to fathom, but sadly it happens. And even more sadly, it seems to be happening more frequently in our day.
Dunn wonders how could anyone walk away from Jesus. The good pastor fails to see or understand that Jesus isn’t the problem. The church is the problem, not Jesus. The Bible is the problem, not Jesus. Evangelicalism’s lusty embrace of the modern culture war and Donald Trump is the problem, not Jesus. Jesus has never been the problem for most former Evangelicals. When I look at Evangelical Christianity, I see a sect committed to white Christian nationalism; a sect that rejects science, reason, and skepticism; a sect awash in political extremism and conspiracy theories; a sect known for hating LGBTQ people, atheists, liberals, and everyone else “different” from them; a sect rife with sex abuse scandals and other criminal behavior by supposed men of Gawd. (Please see the Black Collar Crime Series.)
I deliberately paint with a broad brush, knowing that what I wrote above does not describe all Evangelicals. However, Evangelicalism has become a trash can filled with rotting garbage. Sure, there’s a fresh, shiny Red Delicious Apple buried in the garbage, but its deliciousness is hidden by the stinking garbage all around it. While I doubt there’s anything that could convince me of the truthfulness of Christianity (please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense), I might become an admirer again if the apples became the norm instead of the exception.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
