In yet another post about the Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser, “Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen, Theologyarcheology, TEWSNBN) said:
Even though atheists do not accept the reality of this life, they are the ones who are deceived and lost. The Christian is not. There is nothing to fear from an atheist because they have no secret information, no inside scoop of what goes on in this world, and so on.
The atheist can make all the denials they want about God, Jesus, and the Bible but their denials do not tell the truth. It is evil using those people to side-track, confuse and hopefully destroy the believer and their faith.
The believer has to be strong in their faith to withstand these attacks. God is not wrong, Jesus did live, die and rise again for us and the Bible is not a myth. They are the only truth you will find in this world.
Yet, the atheist will take the time and spend the energy to accuse the Christian of every sin under the sun and act like they are the perfect people. While there are Christians who do commit sins, have trouble living the Christian life and some who are fake Christians pretending to follow God, we are not to blame for everything that goes wrong in this world.
The fault lies with the atheist and other unbelievers because they fight and hinder the only solution for the problems of this world. Atheism could not stop Stalin from killing 15,000,000 of his own people.
Atheism has not stopped Mao and the subsequent rulers of China from killing and torturing untold millions of Chinese people. In fact, atheists should not point a finger at anyone because their sins are greater than those they accuse the Christian of committing.
They certainly are not better than anyone else and they have no objective standard to offer anyone. Instead, they encourage people to sin and live depraved lives. That is not a better solution than the one offered by Christians and God through the Bible.
— “Dr.” David Tee, Theologyarcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Painting With a Broad Brush, December 29, 2021
Another day, another post written by “Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen, Theologyarcheology, TEWSNBN) detailing his objections to something I have written or his continued hemorrhoidal inflammation over my writing style. If I responded to Tee every time he mentioned me on his blog, I wouldn’t write on anything else. So, I only respond to the fake doctor when his words are so egregious that I cannot ignore them.
One of the first things we are going to say is, if BG does not want to be disagreed with, he should stop putting his content out in public. He doesn’t like it when we use his words as teaching moments and trashes us every time that we do.
I don’t care one way or another if people disagree with me. What I do care about is when Fundamentalist Christians such as Tee lie about me, misrepresent my beliefs, or attack my character. Tee does these three things so often, it is safe for us to assume that doing so is just a part of who he is.
I am concerned that Tee has an unhealthy obsession with me. Even after I sent him scantily-clad pictures of me pole dancing at Santa’s Workshop, Tee continues to obsess over me. Maybe he wants an enlarged photo of me nekkid he can tape to the ceiling over his bed. (This is all sarcasm and snark, by the way. I charge big bucks for my stripper photos. No freebies, David.)
We wonder about him as he keeps mentioning the number of years he has spent in the ministry, the number of years he has believed in God, the Bible, and many other Christian activities.
I have explained “why” numerous times to Tee. The things mentioned by him are relevant to the work I do. Continuing to whine about it just makes Tee look jealous and petty.
Why he does it we do not know because he is not the first to do it and he is not the only one to spend decades believing in Christ. We are coming up to our 57th year. So he is not special nor is his story unique.
Tee knows exactly why I do it. I have politely explained it to him several times. His continued obsession with this is baffling.
I don’t believe I have ever said I am “special.” That said, my story is most certainly “unique.” Most clerics who leave the ministry or deconvert do so when they are younger. Rare is the pastor who walks away from twenty-five years in the ministry. It happens, but it’s not common.
There have been many more people who have turned from the faith and they did it long before he did. His deconversion is not the first nor is it unique; nor is his story something worth hearing.
Here, I believe, is Tee’s motivation for his continued personal attacks — jealousy. Tee toils away day after day writing blog posts few people read. (In his mind, God reads them and that’s all that matters.) Yet, the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist has thousands and thousands of readers — 750,000 page views this year. I have attracted loyal readers, many of whom regularly leave comments. Tee? Most of the comments on his blog come from readers of this site. Try as he might, he’s been unable to build a following. No longer a pastor or involved in any meaningful ministry, Tee’s only way of preaching is his blog. Thus, it is hard not to conclude that Tee is envious, bitter, covetous, and resentful over my success. Why doesn’t God bless and use his writing? Why does God allow a vile atheist to attract a large following, yet he labors in obscurity?
The information is all the same. In his post that we will look at here or at least key parts, he says nothing of value, nothing new, and nothing unique. Why he thinks people need to hear his story is beyond us. He is no one of note but just one of the many fools God spoke about when they say he does not exist.
Did you notice Tee spent the first five paragraphs trying to discredit me and make me look insignificant?
I am not, by nature, a prideful man. All I try to do every day is be open, honest, and authentic. While I don’t share every minute detail of my life, I have tried to be an open book. I think it is important for me to be as transparent as possible. I am accessible. Anyone who wants to contact me can easily do so.
Let me see if I understand Tee’s thinking here. He thinks my story is uninteresting, not worth telling, yet he blogs about things that Christians have been “blogging” about for 2,000 years. SMH.
It is up to readers of this blog to decide whether my story is “interesting.” I have been blogging since 2007. My deconversion story quickly caught the attention of Evangelicals and atheists alike. Is it my fault that people find my writing engaging and helpful (much as church members did with my preaching)? Millions of people have read my writing, many of whom are Evangelical or Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Christians. What Tee should be asking himself is why my story resonates with so many people –Christians and atheists alike.
“One of the hardest things for me to admit is that I, at one time, believed things that I now know to be untrue.”
We hear this a lot when we have discussions with atheists. They keep telling Christians that their God is not true, their Bible is a myth and their faith is based on nothing. However, not one atheist has provided any physical evidence to support their claims.
Not one. They just do not believe and then make these declarations like they are saying something that is powerful, unique, and wonderful. We have been told constantly by different atheists that the onus of proof is on us because we make extraordinary claims about God, Jesus, and the Bible.
I chose not to excerpt all of Tee’s word salad. I will say this: extraordinary claims required extraordinary evidence. Tee believes ghosts rape teen girls, virgins have babies, and humans walk on water, teleport, turn water into wine, and heal blindness with spit and dirt. Tee also believes there’s a Heaven and Hell, the universe was created in six twenty-four-hour days, and the earth is 6,024 years old. And then there’s his belief that a dead human named Jesus resurrected from the dead and ascended to the International Space Station. All of these claims are extraordinary in nature; claims which Tee provides no evidence for outside of quoting an ancient, errant, fallible religious text.
Memo to “Dr.” Tee: I don’t believe because the claims of Christianity make no sense to me. Want me to believe? Provide better evidence. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) The ball is in your court.
If anyone is living a life of folly, it is the atheist as they have nothing to look forward to, nothing to rely on, and nothing to share with anyone else. In other words, they are the fools for they think they have something when they have nothing at all.
Again, I chose not to excerpt parts of Tee’s word salad. In the deleted paragraphs, he repeatedly calls atheists “fools.” Aww, he hurt our feelings. Isn’t this the first slur Evangelicals go to when they have no answer to the claims of atheists? Tee sure spends a lot of time reading and responding to a fool, in direct disobedience to the Word of God. The Bible says Christians are not to answer a fool according to his folly.
I would rather follow the Bible and all of its commands than live a life like that. As you have noticed, we are not taking apart BG’s article sentence by sentence. he is really saying nothing new so we do not have to.
At least Tee admits that his post is a personal attack, not a response to something I wrote. How could he possibly take apart my post? It was a personal list of beliefs I held as an Evangelical. That’s it. A short reflection on crazy beliefs I once held.
You can click on that link and read them for yourselves [sic]. The key point is, he says those things are not what they claim or do not exist. BG and other atheists are great at making these comments but they all have one thing in common.
When you read his article, you will notice that he does not even attempt to support his claims. Not one shred of evidence is given that can be verified and double-checked for accuracy.
Sigh. The post was a list of ten beliefs I once held — most of which Tee himself believes. All Tee needs to do is use the search function on this site to find the plethora of words I have spilt on these subjects. Tee is being disingenuous when he says ” he does not even attempt to support his claims. Not one shred of evidence is given that can be verified and double-checked for accuracy.”
In danger of repeating ourselves, we do not know why he and his wife took that sudden turn to unbelief. Maybe he was like us and was treated poorly by other Christians.
Tee is not in danger of “repeating” himself. He crossed that line long ago in this post and other posts on his site. Tee knows EXACTLY why Polly and I aren’t Christians. To feign confusion on this issue is dishonest, to say the least.
Further, I have repeatedly addressed the claim that we were “hurt” by other Christians. Hurt played little to no part in our deconversions. Tee knows this, yet he continues to misrepresent my story and that of my wife. Again, it is obvious that the purpose of his post was to belittle and discredit me. That he felt the need to drag my wife Polly into his attack is reprehensible, to say the least. (David, if you read this post, Polly wants you to know you are a fucking asshole. Her words, not mine. Good job!)
We cannot say for sure but his decision to do so makes us sad every time we read some of his content. How can one be happy when another believer gives up his salvation for lies.
It is impossible to be cheerful when one thinks about it. We wish he could change back and then we could be happier knowing he will make it to heaven. But he has made up his mind and we are not going to press him on this issue.
Tee is “sad” that I am an atheist. Okay . . . don’t read my writing if it makes you sad. Tee’s feigned compassion and concern have never rung true with me. He routinely trashes me, yet he wants me to believe he is a kind, caring person. Behavior matters. I”m not buying what he is selling.
If Tee’s goal is to reclaim me for Jesus, he might want to rethink his tactics. His words have produced great harm to the cause of Christ. Forget what I think. Just ask the atheists and agnostics who read this blog what they think. Better yet, ask Evangelical readers what they think. I doubt Tee will find one reader of this blog who agrees with his approach to me personally and my writing.
Here’s what I know about the afterlife, if there is one. I want to be as far away as possible from the David Tees of the world. Hell is being in the same room with David Tee.
BG and the other atheists are wrong, of course. The Christian life is not folly and the atheist does not have some secret knowledge letting them know that the Bible is not true or that God does not exist.
It is the Christian that has the truth because Jesus exists, he did die for us and he did rise again. We have hope, love, and guidance along with something better than what the atheist offers.
Atheists don’t claim to have secret knowledge. It is Tee who claims he has secret knowledge, that which can only be known by saved, baptized, circumcised, and caramelized Christians. He is the one that says he “knows” the mind of God; that he “knows” exactly what the Bible teaches (even though 2,000 years of church history suggests otherwise).
Atheists have all that Evangelicals have and more. We have freedom. And that, above all else, is why atheism is superior to Christianity.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
BG has this series over at his website. What purpose it serves is beyond any rational and logical thinking. It certainly is not going to change the behavior of those people he accuses nor will it stop anyone from committing the same acts.
If he is trying to provide criticism against Christians and Christianity, he is barking up the wrong tree. Christians already know that there are people in their denominations that do these acts.
His series does an injustice to everyone as it ignores the fact that some of those people he highlights are not Christian except in name only. believers already know that. Their claims and presence in those denominations do not take away the reality of the Christian faith or its pure origins.
Nor do they harm the word of God. God’s word is true no matter how believers and wolves in sheep’s clothing behave. Their actions do harm the people committing those crimes as their deeds are exposed to the world around them and they commit sins that may put them into the lake of fire.
BG’s recording them does not create news as the Christians in those churches already know what is going on. At best, all he is providing is fodder for himself, and his atheist friends to justify their decision to reject Christ as their Savior.
He also provides fuel for them to criticize those who struggle in their faith or fail to live up to society’s ideals. That is the wrong thing to do. When people make these errors in their lives, no one has the right to mock them.
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Whatever bad purpose BG has for creating and maintaining this series we do not have to go along with it. We can bring something good out of these situations to help warn believers and prove the truthfulness of the Bible.
The Bible tells us that our enemy is not other rhumans [sic]. That means that BG and other atheists are not our foes. As the Bible tells us, our foe is the evil forces behind the unbeliever. This is why we need to put on the whole armor of God.
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In other words, we do not rail against BG for creating his Black Collar Series nor do we call him names and so on. We turn the other cheek and respond with the wisdom of Christ. He is just fooling himself if he thinks he is doing anything constructive.
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We see far too many Christians fall to evil’s influence and because of that, we should take Peter’s words concerning ‘making our own calling and election sure’ seriously. These examples of evil devouring possible true Christians are an enormous number, far beyond what BG records in that series.
We should take every step to see that it does not happen to us. One of the biggest examples we have of evil devouring true Christians is BG himself. if it can happen to him it can happen to anyone.
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We have to be wary, watchful, and learn what we need to do to protect ourselves and our families. Get to the truth and apply it correctly to your lives as the lessons from Black Collar Crimes are very clear. We are a targeted people and the enemy is not our friend.
If BG and the other pastors and missionaries who have left the Christian faith and become agnostics and atheists really want to do something of value there is a way. Instead of claiming that God & Jesus do not exist, that the Bible is a fairy tale, and criticizes those Christians who are still living the life they once lived, those former believers should be warning Christians to watch out for the attacks of evil.
But for some reason, they do not show any remorse for their decisions to reject the faith, etc. They do not even show any concern for their once fellow believers. What we see is a concentrated effort to destroy more Christians.
That is sad. These people could still do good work by warning believers but they have chosen to fight along side evil and do its bidding. How many more believers will be lost because of these worse black collar crimes BG ignores?
— “Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen, TheologyArcheology, TEWSNBN), Theologyarcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Black Collar Crime, December 23, 2021
We are writing this as BG continues [and I shall continue to do so as long as clerics commit crimes] his Black collar series. He likes [Actually, I don’t like it. Doing so is a necessary burden, one which often makes me feel like I have been wading in a septic tank.] to point out the ‘sins’ of Christians even though he declares there is no such thing as sin. [Yes, and that’s why the series is about “crimes,” not “sins.” Tee knows this because I have explained it to him several times, yet he continues to lie about and misrepresent my views — which, of course, he will deny doing so.]
But, pointing out other people’s mistakes, errors in judgment, and other problems [crimes, David, crimes] doesn’t help anyone [actually it validates the experiences of victims and lets them know others care about what they have gone through]. It only makes the person doing look bad, hate-filled, and antagonistic.
It doesn’t help their reputation either and only inflames the problems between believer and unbeliever. [No, Tee is the only one with enflamed hemorrhoids over the Black Collar Crime Series. Most people appreciate me calling attention to crimes committed by so-called men of God.] We suggest that atheists and BG start removing the beams from their eyes. [ David, by all means, start a blog that reports on criminal behavior by atheists. Show me the “beams.” I have never raped or sexually assaulted anyone. I have never sexually molested children. Have I ever committed a crime? Sure. Who hasn’t — in the strictest sense of the word. I’ve committed a few misdemeanors over the years, but no felonies.] maybe then they would see Christians in a better light. [We see Christianity as it is. And trust me, David, when you are in the picture, all we see is violence and ugliness. Defending rapists, perverts, and child molesters! Dude, you need to get saved!]
They may not want to as they may find out the truth that they are wrong and that may scare them to an early grave. [sigh]
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Finally, make sure to obey Jesus and get the beams out of your eyes so you do not end up like BG, atheists, and bad Christians [like David Tee]. You need to see clearly [believe as David Tee does] before you can help others do the same [defend rapists, perverts, and child molesters].
— “Dr. David Tee (David Thiessen, TheologyArcheology/TEWSNBM), Theologyarcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Misc. Topics, December 20, 2021
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Unbelievers . . . do not have time for the truth nor do they want to see true Christianity in operation. So they distort what the faith is all about and present a lopsided view of the faith and those who are members.
In other words, the unbeliever refuses to be honest about Christianity as then they would be faced with the reality that Jesus and God exist, that the Bible is actually true and they are not as good a person as they thought they were.
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Remember, the unbeliever does not have the Spirit of Truth helping them find the truth. They are the ones lost and deceived.
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God cannot be more clear than that. it is said throughout the Bible that the unbeliever is lost, deceived, and blind. Jesus also told us that the unbelieving world does not have the Spirit of Truth guiding them to the truth.
That means you cannot get to the truth through the unbelievers’ words. Yet many people who were once Christian have done the opposite of God’s directive and the end result was, they lost their faith.
— “Dr.” David Tee, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Unbelievers Can’t be Honest, December 9, 2021
Since my last post about “Dr. David Tee (David Thiessen, Theology Archeology, TEWSNBN), “Dr.” David Tee Continues to Obsess Over My Writing, the defender of Fundamentalist Christianity from a dank, poorly lit basement somewhere in the Phillipines has written six more posts that are either about me directly or mention me in passing.
Typically, I ignore Tee’s stalker-like obsession with me, but his next-to-last post about me (and atheists in general), Are Evangelicals Responsible for the Culture Wars? demands some sort of response from me. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
The answer according to BG [ Tee is too lazy to type out my name] and other atheists seems to be a resounding ‘yes’. Just read his words as BG speaks for himself and other atheists:
“It seems that Donald can’t or won’t understand why atheists might want to challenge Evangelical beliefs, especially since those beliefs directly affect and harm unbelievers.”
This concept is held by atheists world wide. Instead of taking the blame for their own actions, it is easier and more convenient to blame someone else. The easiest target is the Evangelical or the RCC or some other protestant religion that goes against atheist ideals.
The history of the modern culture war is clear. One need only look at the history of the Moral Majority and other Evangelical groups who followed in their steps to see the people and beliefs behind the current iteration of the “culture war.” The same can be said of conservatives within Roman Catholicism and Mormonism. (Many other culture wars have been fought throughout America’s history — prohibition comes to mind, as does the pro-slavery movement. I am specifically talking about the post-Roe vs. Wade culture war.)
What behaviors, exactly, do atheists refuse to take responsibility for? Besides, there’s no such thing as “atheism” or the “religion of atheism.” Wikipedia defines atheism this way:
“Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.”
Atheists are individuals. There’s no sect or church atheists belong to. Each atheist simply denies the existence of deities. That’s it.
There’s also no such thing as “atheist ideals.” Aside from their common belief about the non-existence of deities, atheists have all sorts of political and social beliefs. Sure, many atheists are humanists, holding liberal/progressive ideas. Others, however, are card-carrying conservatives, many of whom voted for Donald Trump.
It should go without saying that I do NOT represent all atheists. The only person I represent is Bruce Gerencser. Do many of the readers of this blog generally agree with me? Sure. But, more than a few of my atheist readers wish I wouldn’t write about politics. To suggest that I am representative of a typical atheist is not only untrue, but dishonest.
BG repeats himself and makes his accusation even clearer: “Evangelicals are the primary force behind the culture war.”
Then he goes on to list the ‘crimes’ [I do not use the word “crimes” in my post.] being committed by Evangelicals that not only supposedly started this culture war but fuels [sic] it. Those are strong words to hurl against a group of people who look to help everyone in the nation in which they live.
“I spent significant time in my first response to Donald explaining to him why I do what I do. It seems that Donald can’t or won’t understand why atheists might want to challenge Evangelical beliefs, especially since those beliefs directly affect and harm unbelievers. My God, we need only to look at the January 6 insurrection or the election of Donald Trump to see how Evangelicals harm others. Evangelicals are the primary force behind the culture war. These warriors for Jesus want to criminalize abortion, outlaw same-sex marriage, marginalize LGBTQ people, and establish a Christian theocracy where the Bible is the law of the land. These things materially cause harm, so it would be irresponsible for me not to speak out on these (and other) issues. I suspect Donald wants the freedom to do the same. Again, I ask why does Donald want privileges for Evangelicals that he is unwilling to grant to atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagans, and other unbelievers?”
Tee asserts that Evangelicals “look to help everyone in the nation in which they live.” Really? I mean, REALLY? Everywhere I look, I see Evangelicals who want to cause harm to others: women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, atheists, and Muslims to name a few. What religious sect is behind the current war against masks and vaccinations? What religious sect was front and center during the January 6, 2021 insurrection? What religious sect is threatening violence toward people who refuse to bow to their theocratic demands? What religious sect has forsaken following after Jesus for fascism? (I am, of course, speaking generally. I am well aware of the fact that there are Evangelicals who take seriously the teachings of Christ and love their neighbors as themselves. They are, however, the exception to the rule.)
Evangelicals are an existential threat to our Republic. Left to their own devices, blood will be shed, people will die, and the Christian flag will stand proud and tall above the U.S. flag at the Capitol. In their minds, there is no king but Jesus and no law but the Bible.
But when you look at the crimes Evangelicals are supposed to be guilty of it really makes you wonder where the minds of atheists are at. How is it wrong to stop abortion and make that act of murder illegal?
How is making abortion illegal a far worse crime than killing innocent people? If a Christian stops a man from killing a woman on the street he is praised, yet when it comes to protecting unborn children from their parents somehow that act of sparing a life is worse than the atrocities committed by Stalin, Mao, and Hitler put together.
Abortion is not murder, need I say more? Eighty-eight percent of abortions take place in the first trimester — sixty-five percent in the first eight weeks. If Tee cannot or will not see the difference between a zygote and a child, I don’t know what to tell him.
Here are twenty-five questions I have for anti-abortionists, also known as forced-birthers:
Does life begin at conception? How do you know it does? Is your view based on science or is it based on a religious belief?
If life begins at conception, why are you supporting an Ohio bill that makes it illegal to have an abortion once a heartbeat is detected? Does life begin at conception or at first heartbeat?
Do you support the use of emergency contraception (morning after) drugs? Why or why not?
Should a pro-life pharmacist have the right to not dispense emergency contraception drugs? Should I be allowed to opt out of anything that goes against my moral or ethical beliefs, regardless of their foundation?
Is abortion murder?
Do you believe murderers should be prosecuted?
Do you believe that driving the get-away car makes a person just as guilty as the person who robbed the bank?
Do you believe a woman who has an abortion should be prosecuted for murder? How about the doctor who performs the procedure? How about the nurse that assisted in the procedure? How about the person who drove the woman to the clinic? If you believe in the death penalty, do you support the execution of murderers?
Do you use birth control pills?
Should you be prosecuted for murder since birth control pills can, and do, cause spontaneous abortion?
Should abortion be allowed for reasons of rape, incest, or saving the life of the mother?
If you answered yes to question eleven, do you support murdering the fetus if it is the product of rape or incest?
Should a fetus be aborted if the mother’s life is at risk?
Do you support murdering the unborn if it saves the life of the mother?
Is your viewpoint on abortion a religious belief?
What passage in the Bible prohibits abortion? Does this passage define life beginning at conception?
Has God ever killed the unborn?
In Genesis, God destroyed every human save eight by drowning them in a flood. Were any of the women who drowned pregnant? Did God kill the fetuses they were carrying? (Kill the mother, kill the fetus.)
Do you support the death penalty? Do you support war? Should women who survive self-induced abortions be charged with attempted murder?
If you answered yes to question nineteen, why do you oppose the killing of the unborn but support the killing of those already born?
Why do you believe that killing the unborn is murder but consider an American bomb killing a baby 3 hours old a tragic result of war, collateral damage, but not murder?
Do you support birth control being readily available in every school? If your objective is to reduce or eliminate the need for an abortion, wouldn’t easily available, free access to birth control reduce the abortion rate?
Do you believe it is better for a severely deformed child to live for a day and die than for the fetus to be aborted? If so, explain why it is better for the child to suffer needlessly?
Do you believe that God is in control of everything? Does everything include children being born deformed or with serious defects that will result in a life of extreme suffering and pain?
Is someone a Christian if he or she supports abortion?
I’m sure Tee will take these questions as some sort of test for him to answer. Can’t wait for that. (That’s sarcasm, by the way.)
Obviously, atheists have a warped sense of what is fueling these so-called culture wars. The same questions can be put to the support of same-sex marriage.
How is it wrong to stop people from being perverts, mocking traditional marriage, and wanting to preserve that rite of life for everyone? Why should an institution become a laughingstock simply because some people do not want to follow the rules of marriage that have been in place since the beginning of time?
Where is the crime in limiting the institution to only those who will follow the rules? There is no law stating that same-sex couples cannot love each other outside of marriage.
However, there are certain rules in place that prohibit non-married partners from benefiting from certain aspects of life when a same-sex partner dies, is injured, and so on. To change those rules one does not have to destroy the institution of marriage but the LGBTQ community doesn’t care about that.
They are very selfish and only think of their own selves. It is not the Evangelical that fired the first shot in this battle and they have the right to defend the institution of marriage and keep it holy, sanctified, and pure.
After all, it is the sick and perverted that is invading the domain of marriage and they were not invited to join. In this case, the LGBTQ community is the one to blame for the war over marriage.
Tee says LGBTQ people are sick, selfish, and perverted. That should tell you all you need to know about the man. Thou doth protest too much, “Dr.” Tee.
Marriage is a state-sanctioned contract between two people. The state grants certain privileges to people who enter into such contracts. Tee can provide no rational reason outside of quoting the Bible to prohibit two people of the same sex from marrying. Their marriages do not affect Tee and his fellow moralizers in any way. What drives Tee’s outrage is his lifelong homophobia (and perhaps latent desire for gay sex). Tee covers up his homophobia with moral pronouncements and Bible verses, but make no mistake about it, underneath his facade is a homophobe (and I am using the word in a colloquial sense).
Then BG states the next crime to be marginalize LGBTQ people, yet how so? He does not go into detail here and in reality, homosexuals were never really marginalized. One of the codebreakers of the German enigma machines was a homosexual.
They got to help in the War and they got to work, live in homes, and so on. People draw the line when special rights are being granted. The selfish and greedy reach of the LGBTQ knows no boundaries.
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Oh my, LGBTQ people get to serve in the military, have jobs, and own homes — rights Tee would deny to them if he and his fellow theocrats were in charge. LGBTQ people demand equal rights and protection under the law. Instead of thinking about anal sex all the time, I suggest Tee ponder why it is right to deny LGBTQ citizens the same rights heterosexual Americans have? What legal basis is there for denying LGBTQ people the same civil rights everyone else has? LGBTQ people want equal rights, not superior rights — unlike Evangelicals with their Christian nation beliefs.
But these crimes may only be the smoke screen for the most important ‘crime’ held against the evangelical- establish a Christian theocracy where the Bible is the law of the land.
What is being said here is that the atheist really wants to make their own rules and live by them. They do not want to humble themselves and say to God, ‘okay, we will obey you…’ They want to be masters of the world and live their own ways.
They do this regardless of how much harm and hurt their alternative lifestyles do to other people. It is not the Christian or Evangelical that is harming people, it is the atheist.
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Well, at least Tee finally admits he is a Christian nationalist.
Everyone is being hurt by the atheist support of the LGBTQ agenda.
Who is being hurt and how? How does wanting equal rights and protection under the law for everyone cause harm to others? No answers will be forthcoming
Finally, the atheist and their fellow unbelievers have not created a great society to live in with their rules.
Crime is out of control, injustice is being done daily, people are being killed, shot, robbed far more now than when God’s rules were on the books. Also, criminals are not being punished for their crimes. How is this better than a God-centered nation?
Uh, the overwhelming majority of Americans are Christian. Christians control the levers of government and the U.S. Supreme Court. If crime is out of control (and it’s not) who is to blame? Most of the crime committed in this country is committed by people who believe in the existence of the Christian God, and who, to some degree or another, believe the Bible is the Word of God. Surely, Tee doesn’t think it’s atheists commiting most of the crimes in this country?
Tee lives in a dystopian Christian alternate reality, one where atheists roam the land murdering, raping, stealing, and burning churches to the ground. Much like many of his fellow Evangelicals, Tee has a persecution complex extraordinaire — detached from reality.
When you look closely at the facts, the atheist is merely blaming Christians for what they are actually doing.
Please provide those “facts” you are talking about, David. We would all love to look at them “closely.”
Oh, and the atheist says that those who make extraordinary claims need to produce the physical evidence to support those claims. Well. BG says God does not exist, there is no sin, and many other anti-biblical claims. He has yet to produce any real physical evidence to support his extraordinary claims.
I am an agnostic atheist, David. You know this. So, please quit misrepresenting my views. Sin? A religious construct used to induce fear, keeping asses in the pews and money in the offering plates. My real “evidence” can be found in the almost 4,000 posts on this site. Feel free to rage blog away, David. In fact, I encourage you to start a new blog with the express purpose of deconstructing my writing. Or, you can continue to whine and complain over my refusal to accept your irrational, unscientific, immoral, anti-human claims.
We challenge him to do so on his blog instead of declaring how many years he has been in ministry, how many sermons he has preached, or how he has trouble going to the bathroom (way too much information there).
The solution to your existential angst David is this: don’t read my blog. I have explained to you why I use autobiographical statements in my writing several times. Yet, you continue to whine about me doing so. I have come to the conclusion that you are jealous. You have come out on the losing end of a dick-measuring contest and don’t like it. You don’t like the fact that I have garnered a large following over the years. Instead of plowing your own fields, you stand along the fence row complaining about my farming techniques. You, my friend, are a petty man.
You are the only person who has ever complained about my use of autobiographical material or mentions of my health problems. Why is that, David? Let me state once again: you are a petty man.
Why are you so opposed to natural bodily functions such as sex and shitting? I assume you do both. If you don’t want to talk about your fucking and pooping, fine. However, I will continue to do so. Maybe I’ll even share photos. You can use them free of charge. 😂 Don’t like it? Don’t read my blog.
On a side note, BG has this to say:
“If Donald has not done so, I encourage him to read one or more of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Biblical text.”
We know [a real Dr. unlike you] Bart Ehrman through his books, lectures, and debates. How could anyone think he has the truth about the Bible? He makes a lot of declarations but we are yet to see him produce any hard, verifiable, physical evidence that any of his declarations are true.
….
His books are the same way. It is all his point of view not facts from archaeology or history. All you get from Bart Ehrman is lies and misrepresentations.
sigh
Let’s see, “Dr.” David Tee’s books have sold how many copies, exactly? Surely Tee will provide his sales numbers for all to see? Something tells me his sales numbers will be 2,000,000 books less than Dr. Ehrman’s.
Tee thinks that by slanderously attacking Bart Ehrman he can get at me. After all, I’m a fanboy and I frequently suggest Evangelicals read Dr. Ehrman’s books.
Most Evangelicals believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible. Tee most certainly does, though I suspect he thinks his interpretations are superior to the original text. He is the pope of Evangelicalism. He’s never been wrong about a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g.
You can’t honestly read Dr. Ehrman’s books and come away believing the Bible is without error. If facts and evidence matter, inerrancy (as typically defined by Evangelicals) has to go. Tee “says” he had read Ehrman’s books, yet never mentions them on his site. I suspect he is overstating his Ehrman prowess. Tee remains a staunch defender of inerrancy, so either he hasn’t read Ehrman’s books or his “faith” stands in the way of intellectual honesty. One can certainly remain, as many have, a Christian after reading Ehrman’s books, but inerrancy cannot be rationally sustained.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Ben Berwick is a friend of mine. You can read his writing at Meerkat Musings. One of our connections is “Dr.” David Tee (David Theissen, TheologyArcheology, TEWSNBN, the pope of Evangelicalism). Tee has written numerous posts about Ben or me. While Tee says he reads other atheist/ non-Christian blogs, he sure spends an inordinate amount of time “refuting” our writing — so much so that he should rename his blog to Ben & Bruce Speak (sound like an ice cream company).
(Tee’s text is in red, and Ben’s is indented and italicized.)
Atheists, as you know, are very hostile towards religion. However, it is not all religions they do not like or do not tolerate. it is actually just Christianity that gets under their skin.
BG has once again provided a very accurate list of reasons why atheists, in general, are hostile towards religion. This is not a comprehensive list and some of the reasons probably would change depending on the specific atheist you talk to.
As we look through the list, all of those reasons can be boiled down to one simple fact- the Christian is not doing religion the way the atheist wants it done.
You will find that while atheists do not accept other gods from false religions, they do not attack those religious beliefs as often or as fervently as they attack Christianity.
We know that the atheist would never say the things they say about Christianity about Islam. They know that the Muslim does not necessarily turn the other cheek and the atheist does not have a death wish.
I can’t speak for Bruce, but I have witnessed quite a few debates and arguments (and even taken part in a few of them) with both Christians and Muslims, so I don’t know where TEWSNBN gets his info from. If he is using Bruce as the benchmark then it is hardly surprising that he thinks atheists generally go after Christianity at the expense of all else, but he is managing, as ever, to woefully distort (heh) Bruce’s position and twist it to apply, in a misleading fashion, to all atheists. Bruce’s background was as a pastor, he was someone who lived and breathed a particular kind of Christianity, and his experiences – both positive and negative, and especially since leaving – have shaped his views. Bruce did not leave Islam, he left Christianity, and copped a huge amount of flak from fundamentalist Christians who have hounded him, pleaded with him, and harassed him, all because he has dared to share his opinions. In those circumstances, would you be more or less inclined to feel warm and fuzzy inside about the faith you left behind?
I know people who left Islam and spoke out, for similar reasons. TEWSNBN’s idea that people don’t speak out about other religions, least of all because of threats of violence, is both a subtle form of Islamophobia and it ignores the aggression and hostility of fundamentalist Christians towards anyone who does not follow their exact form of Christianity.
But why attack Christianity? If there is no God or Jesus as they claim, then whatever the Christian does, should not matter to the atheist. it would be a harmless religion among thousands of harmless religions and no threat to the atheist.
Also, the Christian teaching should not bother the atheist for it would not be true and as harmless as a gnat fighting an elephant. BUT since the atheist is so up in arms about Christianity, that means that the teachings of Jesus are a threat to the atheist because they are true.
I dare say most atheists simply do not care to comment one way or another, but those that do, do so because they are tired of religious interference in their lives. TEWSNBN has often complained about ‘selfish’ secular attitudes, yet how many times has an atheist knocked at your door to convert you? How many ‘atheist’ churches are there where members actively seek out people to preach to? There is interference – but not in the direct way TEWSNBN thinks.
Organised religion has a history of this. Be it Christianity or Islam, or for that matter a host of other religions, organised religion has kept people in conflict, held communities back in fear, and treated women like cattle. Yet to desire a life free from the shackles of organised religion is unfair?
The atheist has no love for anyone, including their mates, children, and other family members as they continue to lead them away from the truth and keep their ‘loved’ ones in sin.
If anyone is doing any brainwashing at home or elsewhere, it is the atheist as they continue to preach a message they cannot prove to be true. They will preach it to anyone that will give them the time of day.
What a load of bull. I have never seen an atheist preaching on a street corner. I have never heard of children being brainwashed into a cult of atheism. These are desperate generalisations on TEWSNBN’s part.
Does TEWSNBN understand where Bruce is coming from? Is he even prepared to make the effort for once? Here, let me help you… Bruce has this to say, right near the start of his post:
“I have a number of friends and acquaintances who have all sorts of spiritual and religious beliefs. Do I think some of their beliefs and practices are strange? Sure. But, their beliefs are theirs and they have every right to believe them. I am indifferent towards their beliefs. For these friends and acquaintances, spirituality and religion is personal. They have no desire or need to convert other people or argue about whose religion is the “true” one. For the most part, they live according to the Live and Let Live maxim. I would be an arrogant fool to be hostile toward this kind of religion. I know that, for many people, religion and spirituality serve a purpose. They benefit from their beliefs and practices and many of them find meaning, purpose, and direction through their religions. Each to their own.”
Bruce does not rally against those who do not rally against him. If someone wishes to live their life believing in something Bruce does not, he is fine with that! I’m sure Bruce does not need my help in pointing that out (it is pretty bloody obvious after all), but since TEWSNBN is being selective in what he reads, it feels necessary.
TEWSNBN ends his post with this:
It might be better to let God rule instead of those people who want to exclude God from government and legal proceedings.
Which version of which God? As ever, if I were to ask that question of people of different beliefs, I would get different answers. TEWSNBN would argue for his specific version of Christianity, a Christian of a different denomination would argue differently, as would Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists… you get the picture. With that in mind, and with no theocratic system being able to fairly rule over all the rest, it is best to have none of them rule.
Tee’s response to Ben’s post?:
You continue to prove that you will distort, lie and misrepresent what I have said. You also do not verify with me before leaping to your own warped conclusions about what I write. it’s not me with the problem but you.
I quoted you and I linked to your post. Anyone can see who is lying, and who has consistently lied.
Ben has been “interacting” with Tee a lot longer than I have. Both of us know that there is little hope of reaching him. At best, all we can do is publicly correct him when he misrepresents our words or spreads lies about us.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
“Dr.” David Tee, an elderly Evangelical preacher who lives in a basement somewhere in the Philippines, continues on an almost daily (hyperbole, David] basis to obsess over my writing and that of my friend Ben Berwick (Meerkat Musings). Also known around these parts as TEWSNBN (The Evangelical Which Shall Not Be Named), Tee sees himself as some sort of Evangelical pope, a man with a perfect understanding of the Bible. Tee is, to quote an old Bud-Light Commerical, a “Real Man of Genius.”
Believing his peculiar interpretations of the Bible are inerrant and infallible, Tee pontificates on anything and everything that runs afoul of his narrow Fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible.
Over the past two months, Tee — who has an oversized picture of me swinging naked from a stripper pole on his bedroom ceiling — has written the following posts about me:
On October 24, 2021, a man named Johann James, left the following comment on Tee’s blog:
I know Bruce Gerencser. I attended his church in Texas in the 90s. He’s a con-artist with lots of secrets.
Thank you for exposing this false prophet.
Tee replied:
We verified that he preached n Texas before approving this comment. If you have more things to say and want to keep it private, use our contact e-mail address.
James replied:
I dare not say more lest he come after me. His rainbow suspenders tell you all you need to know.
Some day, this false prophet will stand before God and then the truth will be known.
James added later:
I will tell you this much,…. the name of Christ.
I am not going to publish that information. It would need a lot of verifiable evidence to do that- theologyarchaeology
The part deleted by Tee said that Bruce Gerencser had been excommunicated from the church because he had an affair with a man. I hope Tee realizes by now that Johann James is not a real person. 🙂 The reasons for my excommunication from Community Baptist Church in Elemendorf, Texas are clearly articulated in the six-part series I Am a Publican and a Heathen.
Over the past week, Tee has even gone after MJ Lisbeth, a Transgender guest writer for this site, and my wife, Polly.
Tee’s post about MJ is titled, I am a Transgender Woman. When I first saw the title, I thought maybe the real David Tee (TheologyArcheology) was coming out of the closet. Alas, any sort of honesty coming from Tee is not to be. While Tee does not mention MJ by name (or several other Transgender people who regularly comment on this blog), I have no doubt MJ is the target of his vile prose:
Not us but the title reflects the mentality of many people who think there was a mistake at birth. If you believe that a person can change their gender or that there are more than two, you would be in error.
This is a deception that many people have fallen for and have come under the spell of evil. Unhappy with their birth gender, evil has found a way to get people to follow and accept a lie.
Supporting such people and accepting their deception as normal is not right. It is as wrong as claiming to be a different gender than your birth gender. God made only two genders and you are one or the other.
Even science has found that out. Yet, science is often used to perpetuate the deception and its knowledge and abilities are used to alter the body of a man or a woman. That is the wrong use of science and scientific knowledge.
The wrong use of science also leads to a wrong use of political power as well. Hoping to get votes, politicians try to appease those who are deluded and create sinful laws to make sure those deceived people are accepted as normal.
Do not follow those scientists or politicians, etc., who side with the transgender community or support it. You would be siding with evil if you do.
The way to lead these people to the truth is by following God’s instruction. It will not be done through might, but by the power of God. We do not need to make laws to stop this trend.
We need the wisdom and understanding from God as well as his power to know how to proceed. Only God can release these people from the deception so rely on him to help you handle these situations when they arise.
If the transgender refuses to listen to you or let Christ change them, do not accept them. Just let them go on their merry way. Just do not let them into the church leadership or have a say in the church operation.
They have rejected the truth and have nothing to offer the church or the Christian.
In his post titled Do Not Listen to Unbelievers, Tee had this to say about Polly and her preacher husband (my short, pithy comments are in [ ]:
God cannot be more clear than that. it is said throughout the Bible that the unbeliever is lost, deceived, and blind. [Yet, we can see right through Tee’s bullshit.] Jesus also told us that the unbelieving world does not have the Spirit of Truth guiding them to the truth.
That means you cannot get to the truth through the unbelievers’ words. [Sure you can. Tee does it all the time. He came to the “truth” about Bruce and Polly” by reading the words of an unbeliever — me. 🙂 Damn, skippy. Sure stepped in that one.] Yet many people who were once Christian have done the opposite of God’s directive and the end result was, they lost their faith.
One prime example is BG and his wife. We have spent some time reading his website trying to understand how he went from a believer to an unbeliever [This is a lie. Tee reads my blog to provide fodder for his site.]. One of the clearest pieces of evidence that we found was his own admission that they read and listened to those who did not have the truth nor knew Jesus:
[quote from my post] “For most of 2008, I had been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of Christianity and the Bible. From Bart Ehrman to Robert M. Price to Elaine Pagels, I read dozens of books that challenged and attacked my Christian beliefs.”
Except for Mr. Price, we have read those same authors, including similar ones that BG did not mention. Yet we asked God [instead of truth, reason, and skepticism.] to guide us through those words and we came to the exact opposite conclusion that BG did. [Tee allegedly read all of these authors, but never mentions them on his site. Why is that?]
We saw where those authors erred and ignored their conclusions, with God’s help. They are all unbelievers who do not accept the Bible nor accept Christ as their savior. They are classified as scholars and some people get confused when the word scholar is used. [Tee believes there is no truth outside of the Bible. Everything must be strained through the sieve of his peculiar interpreation of the Protestant Christian Bible.]
They think those educators, speakers, and authors have an inside track to the Christian faith. They do not. [We follow truth wherever it leads.] and they spend a lot of their time, like Mark Goodacre does, and ignore the truth.
[quote from my post] “I often read large passages of this or that book to her and we would compare what we had been taught with what these books said. While Polly was never one to read nonfiction, she did read several of Bart Ehrman’s books. Over time, both of us came to the conclusion that what we had been taught wasn’t true.”
Comparison is not wrong as it can help you sort out who is a false teacher and who is not. The question is who are you listening to? [Truth, reason, skepticism, common sense.] Bart Ehrman started out as an unbeliever like the rest of us, became saved when he was young, and then lost his faith over some off-hand remark made by the late Dr. Metzger (that story of his changes in Dr. Ehrman’s many retellings). [Ehrman’s deconversion is more complex than Tee suggests. I have actually read almost all of his books.I wonder how many of Ehrman’s books Tee actually has on his three shelf Sauder bookshelf.]
The question for BG, his wife, and other unbelievers is why would you take a human’s word over God’s words? Especially when those authors do not believe in God and write against the Bible and its truth. [The Bible is human words, not God’s. Why would I treat the Bible as anything other than a human book. Asserting that the Bible is God’s Words doesn’t make it so.]
[quote from my post] “After we decided in 2005 we no longer wanted to be Pastor and Mrs. Bruce Gerencser, we spent a few years trying to find a church that took seriously the teaching of Jesus. Not finding such a church frustrated us and led us to conclude that the Christianity of Jesus no longer existed, and most churches were just different flavors of ice cream; same base ingredients with different added flavors.”
This is a controversial method to try. BG did not give us the criteria that he used to come to the conclusion that many churches did not practice or follow Jesus’ teaching.
It was very unfair of him to do this as he was standing in judgment of others, something that God said not to do. [Yet, Tee daily passes judgment on people he disagrees with. Judging others is fine. We all do it. To suggest otherwise is a denial of how humans think and behave.] it is also very subjective. Who says that every church practicing the true teachings of Jesus will do it in the same manner as BG and his wife demand? [Tee is straining at gnats and swallowing camels. He knows what criteria we used to judge these churches. Besides, doesn’t the Bible say that there is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism? Sure seems like there’s an objective (and practical) standard by which to judge churches.]
Then, their response to this lack of discovery was for them to give up Jesus and salvation. [Yes, we followed truth wherever it led.] Where was their commitment to Jesus? [There was no Jesus to commit to. He’s dead.] There is a song that every believer has sung at least once in their lives and one of the verses goes like this: ‘if no one joins me, still I will follow…’
So, no one joined BG and his wife and their response is to give up and join those churches that did not practice the true teachings of Jesus.[This sentence makes no sense.] There was something wrong in their thought processes as they did not even give Jesus a chance and they fled the moment they found themselves alone. [Uh, we were Christians for almost fifty years. We gave Jesus more than a “fair” chance. In fact, even now, if Jesus showed up at our door we would listen. So far, the only people who show up are the David Tees of the world. Jesus definitely has a PR problem.]
Much like the disciples fled when Jesus was arrested by unbelievers. Also, BG and his wife were very unfair to those churches as they placed the responsibility of their decision on those churches, not themselves. [Are you not making a judgment, the very practice you decry above? Hypocrite.]
Those churches did not force or encourage BG and his wife to give up their faith. That decision is the complete responsibility of BG & his wife. [And I have never said otherwise.] There is one more important point to make here.[Did you make an important point to start with?]
BG and his wife still had the opportunity to follow Jesus, start their own church, and lead their new members in following the true teachings of Christ. Yet, they decided to give up their faith instead. That is not a smart move to make. [Sure it is. We are happy, and that, my friend, is the only thing that matters.]
….
The Bible tells us that the way to salvation is straight and narrow, and FEW FIND IT. Do not be one of the majority and flee to the broad way just because you want company.
Jesus should be enough for everyone [Bruce and Polly] even when other humans are not helping out. God and Jesus are real [no evidence provided], they alone have the truth and have given it to us through the Bible.
Do not listen to unbelievers[Bruce and Polly] for many [Bruce and Polly] have given up and rather live their lives out as best as they can. That is not a good life to live. For humans can abandon you [Bruce and Polly] in that situation as well.
Tee’s post is littered with lies, half-truths, and mischaracterizations. In other words, a typical response by TEWSNBM. I have no problem with people interacting with and critiquing my writing. In fact, I encourage such responses. I just wish Evangelical interlocutors would at least “try” to be honest and represent me accurately. Surely, that would be the Christian thing to do, right?
I am sure this post will provoke a response from TEWSNBM. And thus the circle of life shall continue. 🙂 As you can see, I have pretty much ignored Tee’s recent posts about me. And I will continue to so do. I will occasionally respond to him, sending a few readers to his site (99% of his few commenters are readers from this site). I will not, however, allow his screeds to distract me from my calling: to advance my stripper Santa image. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
The “Sketchy” Dr. David Tee, AKA David Thiessen, AKA TheologyArcheology
“Dr.” David Tee continues to express butthurt outrage over virtually everything I write. Tee, whose real name is David Thiessen, is an Evangelical preacher who lives in the Philippines or South Korea. Yesterday, Tee sent me an email about my post titled Why Do So Many Evangelicals Abuse Their Children? Carolyn, my editor, replied to his email.
Tee: You [Bruce Gerencser] quit Christ and the church. Learn to mind your own business.
Carolyn: You barged in on Bruce’s blog uninvited. Take your own advice and learn to mind your own business.
Tee: Hiding behind a woman’s skirt now? You made your contact form open to everyone. I would have had more respect for you if you weren’t a quitter, coward, and liar. Learn to mind your business and leave the people you quit on alone. You raised your kids your way, let Christians raise their kids their way. You are not in charge of how kids should be raised.
Carolyn: You seem to think that people are forced to read Bruce’s blog. Bruce does “leave people . . . alone.” His remarks are only for those who read the blog. And they don’t even have to believe him or follow his advice. But they choose to read his writing.
Bruce will have a hard time “hiding behind [my] skirt.” I don’t generally wear skirts or dresses. I am his editor and I try to help him keep up with his emails, which are many. If you want to consider that hiding behind my skirt, so be it. That’s your perception. And I don’t think Bruce cares very much what your perception might be.
I wonder why you keep letting Bruce live rent-free inside your head. If you dislike his blog so much, one would think you would be better off moving on.
Tee did not respond to Carolyn’s last email to him. Instead, he took his outrage to his blog. Titled, Mind Your Own Business, Tee stated [all grammar in the original]:
This is getting far more difficult to do these days. far too many people post their personal business on the internet basically every minute of the day. It can be very difficult to not comment when people put personal stuff in the public sphere.
….
Atheists have this same problem and while we are not going to quote from his rant, BG has stepped over the line and stuck his nose in where it does not belong. The link is in his initials.
It is the same old story with atheists. They apply their subjective thinking to any aspect of life and think they know better than anyone else, including God. Of course, they distort the issues, especially when it comes to corporal punishment.
There is nothing wrong with spanking a child or even using a switch. As long as the punishment fits the crime and does not cross the boundary between discipline and a beating.
Atheists rarely see the difference and have interfered in parental rights far too often. They think their way is the only way usurping God’s authority in this matter.
Unfortunately, the secular authorities usually agree with those atheists who are up in arms against proper discipline and the world is a worse place than it should have been.
On the other hand, many believers misunderstand God’s word and go too far in their application of biblical teaching when it comes to discipline.
The go-to verse for using spanking, a switch, a belt, or a rod does not say that those forms of punishment are to be used. The verse simply says that those who fail to discipline or use discipline will spoil their child.
We have no problem with Christians using spanking, a rod or a switch, etc., when they discipline but we do have a problem when they go beyond God’s instructions on how to discipline.
The application of punishment needs to be fair, just and does not provoke children to wrath. it is also to lead the child or offender to repentance. It is not supposed to harden their hearts to the point they cannot be redeemed.
Jesus used corporal punishment against the money changers. His discipline fit the crime those men were committing. They didn’t do it again that we know of.
Discipling children is one area many people have a hard time keeping their noses out of. They think their ways of discipline is [sic] better than someone else’s and they let them know about it.
….
The atheists’ subjective opinion does not matter nor is it better than God’s way. The concept of abuse is also subjective and in both topics, the atheist is not right nor has a monopoly on how those issues should be addressed or labeled.
The atheist is the one who is deceived and blind, not the Christian. it is up to the Christian to set the example and show the unbeliever how discipline should be done. If the atheist disagrees, too bad.
They are free to discipline their children as they see fit but they have no right to tell the believer how it should be done. Nor do they have the right to stick their nose in where it does not belong and remove the child from a believer’s home.
They would not like that done to them thus they should not do it to people they hate or disagree with. Sticking one’s nose in where it does not belong only causes more trouble and makes everything worse, not better.
Following God’s way correctly will make things better, not worse. God knows what is best not the deceived atheist. This is just one area where people should mind their own business.
Those without sin can cast stones but those who are with sin, whether they admit there is such a thing or not, should not interfere. Their ways are not better than God’s and they do not know more than God.
Come to find out, Tee actually sent two more emails to Carolyn:
Your words mean nothing and you certainly do not understand the real world. You do not even know what ‘hiding behind someone’s skirt’ really means
if you dislike me so much, why do I keep getting pingbacks from BG’s website? I think you have everything backward as I stop thinking about BG when I stop using his words as an example.
Since BG quit Christ and the Church, he should find a different topic to write about. He doesn’t know what he is talking about.
and
Uhm, BG, you are using copyrighted photos without permission. You owe me $1000 for the copyright violation. That fee will cover all the photos you have used or will use in the future. I will expect an electronic money transfer shortly
These two emails were innocently missed by Carolyn, but Tee thinks there’s some sort of conspiracy going on:
Caught you in another lie. I checked my records and I did respond to her last email. Why don’t you tell the complete truth for a change instead of manipulating the situation to fit your desired results.
Oh, and you owe me $1000 for unauthorized use of my copyrighted photos. Your use does not fall under the fair use exemptions.
*sigh*
In the past, Tee has defended Christians who abuse their spouses and sexually molest children. He is a staunch defender of miscreants such as Ravi Zacharias and Bill Cosby. He shows little to no interest in caring for or supporting victims. Why is that? And now he supports abusing children.
What are we to make of the fake “Dr.” Tee? In 2012, a woman left a comment on a post about Tee that said:
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
We are going to get this out of the way right now. There is only one reason for divorce. The unbelieving world has created a myriad of reasons but in reality and truth, there is only one- adultery.
Since God and Jesus get to make the rules, there are no substitutes. While the unbelieving world feels that they are more compassionate and more moral than God, they keep coming up with new ways to break up a solid family.
Sadly, the church has followed the unbelieving world and added far more reasons than the one Jesus gave. Many years ago we were in an online discussion with a woman on this very topic. We stated our position, as above, and she came back with, ‘My pastor said abandonment’ is grounds for divorce.
We came back with a solid no and restated adultery and her response was always the same – ‘and abandonment. her pastor was wrong and so are all those people who add abuse or domestic violence to the list.
Domestic violence is a sin but it is not a reason for divorce. In fact, encouraging people to divorce an abusive partner does not make the situation any better. Many women are killed after they have moved out and divorced their husbands.
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Does this mean we are condemning people to abusive relationships? No. We are telling them not to sin in response to the sins committed against them. Sinning in response does not solve the problem either.
Remember Jesus was heavily abused by his family and the Romans, yet he did not sin in retaliation. He set the example. He is the one to follow. Can spouses and children bring charges against their mates and parents?
This is a delicate issue and one has to use the law wisely. Punishment is not for revenge or to hurt others. It is to bring the offender to repentance. You cannot achieve that goal if you sin in response or deal with the offender unjustly.
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We do not sin when sin is done against us. Forgiveness does not make everything go away or make it better. Nor does it remove punishment but it helps us see clearly and find the just punishment for the offense or offenses committed.
Revenge is mine saith the Lord. Our duty is to allow God to lead us to the just punishment and not let our own will get in the way.
“Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen), Theology Archeology: A Site for the Glory of God, Domestic Violence, October 6, 2021
