Historian Tim O’Neill has published a comprehensive, enlightening article on whether Adolph Hitler was an atheist, Christian, or pagan. Evangelical apologists and atheists alike love to tar the other with claims that Hitler was an atheist or a Christian. As O’Neill makes clear, Hitler was neither. What follows is the conclusion of O’Neill’s article. I hope you will take the time to read the entire article.
Hitler was not an atheist. Exactly how he conceived of the God he believed in is unclear thanks to his often incoherent and contradictory statements on the subject, but he did believe in a God and rejected atheism. Hitler was not a pagan or an occultist. He held some strange ideas, but they tended to be more pseudo scientific than mystical and he was something of sceptic about such things and prided himself on his rationalism. Hitler was not a Christian. He clearly had a conception of Jesus that he admired, but it was based on dubious and often crackpot ideas of Jesus as a man and it was not based on any of the key doctrines of Christianity. Despite Richard Carrier’s tangled attempts, there is no coherent and reasonable way to define Hitler as a Christian in any sense.
The Nazi attitude to Christianity was complex and evolved over time. In the Party’s early years it could not afford to alienate the majority Christian population and so worked hard to make Nazism as compatible with Christianity as possible and to present Hitler as, if not a believer, then not an enemy of Christianity. Once in power this general approach was maintained, though some elements in the Nazi leadership became far more overtly anti-Christian. Himmler, Goebbels and, especially, Bormann were clearly anti-Christian but were restrained for the sake of morale during the War. Most historians agree that Hitler too was largely anti-church, though Steigmann-Gall believes this was a later development. A great deal of evidence indicates that the Nazi elite intended to suppress Christianity as a major threat to Nazi ideology and objectives in the long term
No-one wants Hitler on their team and many want him to belong to “the other side”. As it happens, Hitler’s beliefs on religion as on many things are not neatly categorised. But on the question of “atheist, pagan or Christian?” the only accurate answer is “none of the above.”
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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A common refrain from Evangelical zealots is that atheism leads to immoral, unethical behavior. (Please see Do Atheists Really Love to Wallow in Sin?) When asked for evidence to justify their claims, Evangelicals provide none outside of saying THE BIBLE SAYS! Back here in the real world, we expect facts and evidence to confirm the claim that atheism leads to immoral, unethical behavior; that atheists are more immoral and unethical than born-again Christians. Can atheists behave badly? Absolutely. However, their behavior is no different from that of Christian people. All of us are, drumroll please, human. And as humans, we are capable of good and bad behavior. Our goal (except for narcissists) is good behavior. As a humanist, I try to love my neighbors as myself. I try to do good works, treating others as I would want to be treated. Sometimes, I fail to live up to the humanist ideal. I can, at times, act badly. The arc of my life is towards kindness, decency, love, and goodness, and eating good food, but sometimes I can be an asshole. All I know to do is try again to be a better person. There is no God in Heaven or Devil in Hell. There is no sin or judgment, just good, bad, and indifferent behavior.
Yesterday, NPR published an article on the shortage of Muslim chaplains in federal prisons. What piqued my interest was a chart detailing the self-identified religious makeup of prisoners. What this chart made clear is that atheists are not the bad people Evangelicals claim they are.
Almost 71,000 out of 118,000 inmates identify as Roman Catholic or Protestant Christians. This chart also shows that Protest Christian — often Evangelical — clerics make up the vast majority of prison chaplains. This is true at the state, county, and local levels too. This should come as no surprise. Evangelical chaplains see prisoners as targets for evangelization; not all Evangelical chaplains, of course, but many of them do.
I spent countless hours “ministering” to prisoners at the Perry County, Ohio Jail, and Ohio state prisons. My goal was not evangelization. I chose, instead, to befriend prisoners. When I, along with another pastor, the late Larry Rue, pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in New Lexington, Ohio, showed up on Tuesday nights at the county jail, we were there to listen, not preach. Other churches would come to the jail, stand outside the cells, and preach at the men. The prisoners hated these churches. So Larry and I went into the cells, sat down, and talked with the men, listening to their stories, wants, and needs. (Beavis and Butthead was always on the TV when we were there.) Sure, if they asked questions about God, Jesus, or the Bible, we would try to answer them. And we would pray with and for the men. We never led anyone to Jesus at the Perry County Jail, but I like to think we showed these troubled, hurting men a different side of Christianity (I plan to write about my jail ministry experiences someday).
As this chart makes clear, atheists are not more likely to commit crimes. What the NPR story also made clear to me is that we atheists need to do a better job “ministering” to incarcerated atheists, agnostics, humanists, and other nonbelievers. The problem, of course, is that Protestant Christian clerics and ministries are often the gatekeepers in prisons. At our local jail, Corrections Center of Northwest Ohio (CCNO) — a multi-county facility, Evangelicals rule the roost. I plan on contacting the facility to see what opportunities atheists and humanists might have to help inmates (as chaplains and other religious people do). I previously held services and talked to inmates one-on-one at CCNO when I was pastor of Our Father’s House in West Unity, Ohio, from 1995-2002.
The complete U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General report can be found here. There’s a hilarious (and ignorant) footnote on the atheist group that says “According to the BOP [Bureau of Prisons], it considers atheist inmates to be represented by its chaplaincy because, as trained religious experts, the BOP’s chaplains of any faith could provide counsel to atheist inmates if needed.” And all the atheists said, BULLSHIT. Using this logic, Christian chaplains could provide counsel to Muslims. Just imagine an Evangelical chaplain “counseling” an atheist inmate. When I sought out a counselor a decade ago, I deliberately avoided Evangelical counselors. I knew their approach and counsel would be horribly skewed towards their religious beliefs. Fortunately, I found a secular counselor, one of the few in rural northwest Ohio.
Do you know of any atheist/humanist prison ministry? If so, please share their info in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I wonder if the reason Bruce turned atheist is because he turned queer?
Sadly most people caught in the devil’s snare support the demonic atrocities of baby murder and sodomy.
Ballister is not the first Evangelical Christian to suggest that I became an atheist for perverse (in their minds) sexual reasons; that I am hiding a deep, dark secret about my sexuality. Refusing to accept my story at face value, Ballister and others like him concoct reasons in their demented minds why I “really” left Christianity. No matter what I tell them, they are certain that there is some other reason for my loss of faith, whether anger, hatred, disappointment, health problems, poverty, or a secret desire for cock.
Why do the JM Ballisters of the world always think there’s a sexual reason behind my deconversion? These are the same people who endlessly wage war against those who dare to fuck whomever, wherever, however, and whenever. Granted, Romans 1 does give them justification for their obsession with fucking. The Apostle Paul says that those given over to a reprobate mind (Bruce Gerencser) have illicit sexual desires and crave same-sex intercourse. (Is a blow job or a hand job intercourse? Inquiring minds want to know.) 🙂
Paul writes:
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. . . Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:26-28, 32)
The Message puts it this way:
Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches. Since they didn’t bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil . . . They know perfectly well they’re spitting in God’s face. And they don’t care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best! (Romans 1:26-28, 32)
These verses aptly portray how many Evangelicals view atheists. We are vile, evil people who spend our days molesting children, eating fetuses for dinner, and wantonly fucking our brains out at night. Never mind the fact that most atheists are every bit as moral and ethical as Evangelicals. Never mind the fact that many Evangelicals–turned-atheists are not much different from how they were in their Christian days (generally speaking). Sure, our morals and ethics have changed and evolved, but we are still kind, thoughtful, decent people. Sure, for most atheists, their politics have moved leftward, though it would be a huge mistake to assume that all atheists are Democrats, liberals, or pro-choice. I have several atheist friends who are Republicans, who voted for Trump. They love my atheism but hate my politics. Some atheists are even anti-abortion or believe in all sorts of woo. Atheism does not automatically convey to people sound reasoning skills.
For me personally, I am as liberal as they come. I am a democratic socialist, a pacifist, pro-choice, and a rainbow flag waving supporter of LGBTQ rights. I am so far to the left that I fell off the far edge of the flat earth. 🙂 Most local Democrats consider me way too leftist. While I do website work for the local Democratic party, party leaders, in general, are hesitant to embrace me. I’m in the family, but I’m the uncle everyone steers clear of. I will admit that I am somewhat standoffish towards local party officials. My viewpoints are so different from theirs that it is often hard to find common ground. The party is controlled by people my age and older. For a variety of reasons, they have been unable to attract younger adults such as my children. I have some suggestions if anyone wants to hear them. 🙂
Now to my sexuality. No, I am not queer, and neither am I bisexual. I am as heterosexual as they come, as is my wife. Outside of a same-sex moment with Billy K — he kissed me — at age fourteen, I’ve never had a sexual experience with a man. Sorry, there are no queers in my closet. I know, so disappointing. Lots of other stuff in my closet, so keep digging Evangelicals. You might even find my Great Preachers of the IFB porn stash — so-called men of God baring all for Jesus. 🙂
I suspect that if we look in the closets of Evangelicals such as Ballister, we will find all sorts of sexual secrets. My God, we might even find out that they do it cowgirl or doggie style. Such perversion will lead them straight to Hell. Only the missionary position for Evangelicals — straight, monogamous, boring heterosexual sex. Thus saith the Lord! Or James Dobson.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
JM Ballister, an Evangelical Christian who either deleted his email account or blocked me (coward), sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized.
Judas betrayed Jesus Christ for 30 pieces of silver.
Ballister begins his missive by telling me that Judas, a disciple of Christ, betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.
Judas is the betrayer of Jesus — worse than Hitler, in the minds of Evangelicals. I wonder if Ballister and his fellow Christians have bothered to look at the contradictions in the Biblical text on how/where Judas killed himself and what, exactly, the thirty pieces of silver were used for? Contradictions abound. So why should we trust anything the Bible says about Judas — or anything else, for that matter? If an inerrant book has one error, it is no longer inerrant.
The Bible calls Judas the “son of perdition.” Judas didn’t “choose” to betray Jesus. God chose him from before the foundation of the world to be the man who would betray the Son of God. Judas never had a chance to be saved. In fact, he couldn’t be saved. It would have been better if he had never been born. You see, Ballister forgets that I have actually read the Bible numerous times; that I spent thousands and thousands of hours studying the Word of God. I KNOW the story of Judas.
What did you and every other “former Christian” betray him for?
I can’t speak for other atheists, but I know exactly what I “betrayed” Jesus for: reason, skepticism, rationalism, science, freedom, and sleeping in on Sundays.
There is no such thing as a Christian “turned atheist”.
Memo to Evangelicals: just because you say something doesn’t make it so. Ballister denies what is right in front of him: an increasing number of devout Evangelical Christians are leaving the church and embracing atheism, agnosticism, Christian liberalism, or numbering themselves with those who are indifferent towards organized religion. We exist, and no amount of posturing and denial will change this fact.
Sadly they were never born again spiritually.
Ballister has a theological dilemma on his hands. He sees droves of committed followers of Jesus Christ exiting the church stage left — Christ-loving, sanctified, Holy Spirit-filled people — and he is befuddled by their departures. How can these things be? True Christian® Ballister says to himself. Unable to fit these people into his once-saved-always-saved theological box, Ballister concludes these Judases must never have been saved. Using the No True Scotsman Fallacy, Ballister dismisses out of hand millions of former Christians, labeling them liars and deceivers.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. Think, for a moment, about how many Christians I came in contact with. Thousands, including Evangelicals pastors, professors, evangelists, and missionaries. Some of these clerics were personal friends. Yet, not one of them EVER said that they thought I was unsaved. Not one. Either I was a master deceiver, tricking thousands of people into believing I was a God-called, born-again preacher of the gospel, or Ballister is full of shit. My money is on the latter.
Just like Judas.
Here’s the problem with Ballister’s Judas illustration: Judas was pre-ordained by God to betray Jesus. Therefore, Judas could not be saved. He was a reprobate from the beginning. Thus, if Evangelicals-turned-atheists are Judases, it is impossible for us to be saved. Thus, the blame for our unbelief rests on God — he made us this way. God chose to withhold his grace from us. Why? Who knows, but Ballister is blaming the wrong people. Evangelicals-turned-atheists are heathens today because, from before the foundation of the world, God determined they would be atheists. Perhaps Ballister should be emailing Jesus, and not me. Oh wait, Jesus is dead or has a Juno account.
Jesus loves you he never stopped and is waiting for you and many others here to come to him in true salvation
What a pathetic God Ballister serves. Jesus lurks in the shadows, helpless to save atheists and agnostics unless we come running to him. He could call out to us, but he says nothing. He could come running to us and miraculously save us from the wrath to come, but he has no legs. Everything an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent God should be able to do, Jesus is helpless to do. How can it be said that Jesus loves us and has a wonderful plan for our lives, yet he either cannot or refuses to use his magical powers to bring us to saving faith? Instead, Jesus sends Christian Assholes like JM Ballister. Do better, Jesus, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Nancy Campbell, a Fundamentalist Christian, warned women today about the “sin” of showing cleavage in church. That’s right, with everything that is going on in the world, Campbell is worried about cleavage.
Isaiah 61:10 says: “I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God, for He hath CLOTHED me with the GARMENTS of salvation, he hath COVERED me with the ROBE of righteousness.” When we accept the salvation God gives to us, He washes away our sins, covers us with the precious blood of Jesus, and clothes us with a robe of righteousness. It’s not our righteousness for we have none of our own, but it’s His righteousness.
This is something that happens to us spiritually. However, everything that happens in the inward man should be revealed in the outward man. Our physical body emanates what goes on in the “hidden man of the heart.” I believe that if we are truly covered with a robe of righteousness inwardly, we will also reveal this work of righteousness within us by covering our physical bodies.
A robe is not a scanty dress; it covers the body. It doesn’t have to cover head to foot, but at least a robe usually covers the top to below the knee. I grieve as I observe women who confess they are Christians and yet blatantly display cleavage, some a little, some as much as they can! It has become so normal in the Christians church that some young Christians think it is standard clothing! Why would women want to take that which is sacred to the bedroom out into the public market place? And why would husbands. who are the covering of their wives, allow them to leave their home with so much flesh showing? Why do they want the world to see what belongs to them alone (Proverbs 5:15-19).
First, Campbell rips Isaiah 61:10 out if its context and uses the verse to prove her anti-cleavage point. As Campbell aptly shows, the Bible can be used to prove anything.
Second, Campbell believes women should cover their bodies from their necks to below their knees. Why, if Evangelical women don’t do this, horn-dog preachers, deacons, and other church males will be tempted to lust. Think about what she is saying. Showing ANY cleavage is a sin. The slightest glimpse of a woman’s breasts in church will lead hapless, weak, pathetic men astray. As always, women are to blame when men can’t keep their minds out of the gutter.
I call on women to protest Campbell’s anti-cleavagery. 🙂 Proudly show your cleavage. Seriously, Campell’s and Lori Alexander’s obsession with women’s breasts is silly and absurd. Personally, I am a big fan of cleavage. That said, I am not worried that I will want to sexually have my way with women who show theirs. For fuck’s sake, grow up.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The post VanZee references here is the most widely read and commented post on this site, Why I Hate Jesus. It is also the most misunderstood article on this site.
I am just going to say it plain, this post is full of logical fallacies. Look into Introductory and Intermediate logic by Bill Nance. It will help you sort your thoughts out. If you go through the book I can help you translate what you said into its propositions and show you were the fallacy lies.
VanZee thinks I am illogical; that if I read several books on logic (which I have) that I will then think correctly. And then what? Coming running back to Jesus and Christianity? VanZee must have missed that I grew up in the Christian church (50 years, longer than she has been alive), attended an Evangelical college, and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. She must have missed where I talked about my voracious reading habit as a pastor. Of course she did. VanZee read all of two posts before rendering judgment.
Let me quote the Bible. Let it speak plainly to VanZee: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
I have a rudimentary understanding of logic and philosophy. That said, I don’t engage in arguments or debates on these subjects. Doing so is a colossal waste of time — for me, anyway. I choose, instead, to tell my story and provide critiques of Evangelicalism and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement.
The aforementioned post is not a treatise on logic or philosophy. It is, in fact, a political and polemical piece. How could VanZee (and countless other Evangelicals who have objected to the article) not understand this? The graphic of the AMERICAN JESUS at the top of the page is a dead giveaway. Try harder, Evangelicals, try harder.
If VanZee would like to discuss the nature and history of the Bible or Christian theology, I would be glad to do so. Then we can see who is “illogical.” Let’s have a cage match between the Evangelical-turned-atheist and the Holy Spirit-filled Evangelical.
I’m sorry for whatever happened to you. I don’t have time to read your story now, but I can see you were hurt and you are angry… yet you seem to be longing for God and want to get saved.
VanZee couldn’t be bothered to read my story, yet she feels she knows enough to make sweeping, ignorant, false judgments about my life. See Proverbs 18:13 above.
VanZee says she can “see” that I was hurt and that I am angry, and most astoundingly, that I am longing for God and want to get saved — none of which is true. But, VanZee knows better. Evangelicals think they have God-given magical senses by which they can see inside of people and discern what it is they really believe and feel. I have no answer for such nonsense. None. All I can say to VanZee is this: read my damn story and then we will talk. Read the ABOUT page. Read the posts on the WHY? page. Read my autobiographical work. Then, and only then, are you in a position to intelligently talk with me about why I left Christianity and became an atheist. Until then, you are ignorant and uninformed.
I will pray for you. I hope to hear from you again.
Ah yes, the obligatory “I will pray for you.” Thousands of Evangelicals over the years have told me that they are praying for me. Yet, I remain an unrepentant apostate. Why, one could almost conclude that “nothing fails like prayer” or, perhaps, the only “God” Evangelicals are praying to is the ceiling.
I long ago concluded that Evangelicals say “I’m praying for you” because it is, literally, the least they can do. Such statements are little more than a fart in a hurricane. Think of all the things Evangelicals could do for me that would make a difference or make me think that I am anything more to them than another notch on their gospel gun. Years ago, an IFB evangelist sent me $100. Color me impressed. I appreciated his gift. We struck up a friendship. Maybe he hoped his act of kindness would draw me back to Jesus. Regardless, I found him to be a generous and kind person. He even sent me a fancy tie that I wear to this day. Of course, I didn’t return to Jesus. Instead, he is now an unbeliever — and we are still friends. Be careful sending me money. I might use my magical atheist powers to suck the Holy Ghost out of your heart. 🙂 All kidding aside, Evangelicals. Want to make a favorable impression on me? Send me money. Praying may make you feel good, but it’s a masturbatory act — all about you.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In 2017, Steven Anderson, pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, gathered together a group of like-minded Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers to start a “new” IFB group. At its height, thirty churches were part of this group. Today, rocked by sex scandals, homophobic behavior, and internecine squabbles, the NIFB is no more. Its website is no longer active. Faithful Word’s website makes no mention of the NIFB, and Anderson’s YouTube channel has been terminated for violating YouTube’s terms of service.
Over the years, NIFB pastors Anderson, Donnie Romero, Adam Fannin, Jonathan Shelley, Grayson Fritts, and Logan Robertson, to name a few, have been in the news. Wikipedia states:
A split in the New IFB occurred in January 2019, after Donnie Romero, pastor at Stedfast Baptist Church-Fort Worth (SBC), resigned after it was revealed he had hired prostitutes, smoked marijuana and gambled. Adam Fannin, the lead preacher at SBC’s Jacksonville satellite campus, refused to acknowledge the authority of Jonathan Shelley, another Texas New IFB pastor who took over SBC–Fort Worth following Romero’s resignation. Anderson, Fannin and Shelley traded accusations of financial wrongdoing and running a cult. Fannin was later ejected as the lead preacher of SBC-Jax.
….
New IFB pastors have been the subjects of controversy on numerous occasions. The New IFB is strongly opposed to homosexuality, with several pastors advocating the belief that homosexuals should be executed. Anderson and other New IFB pastors have praised the Orlando gay nightclub shooting. On the weekend of the third anniversary of the shooting, the New IFB held a “Make America Straight Again” conference at an Orlando-area New IFB church. Also in June 2019, Grayson Fritts, pastor at New IFB-affiliated All Scripture Baptist Church and a former detective for the Knox County, Tennessee, Sheriff’s Office, delivered a sermon calling for the execution of gays.
The New IFB considers the modern nation of Israel to be a fraud and it also teaches that Christians rather than Jews are God’s chosen people. Anderson has also produced videos in which he attacks the religion of Judaism and questions the official account of the Holocaust. The New IFB, like older independent Baptist churches, has been accused of being cult-like.
Auckland, New Zealand, New IFB pastor Logan Robertson was deported from Australia in July 2018 after being accused of harassing Muslims at two Brisbane mosques. Robertson had previously attracted media attention after he stated that gay people should be shot and New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern should “go home and get in the kitchen”.
Anderson started the NIFB because he believed the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement was going liberal. This claim was patently untrue. Certainly, some IFB pastors are more “liberal” now than they were years ago. However, their liberalism has more to do with peripheral issues than core theological and social beliefs. I have seen no evidence for the claim that the IFB church movement, in general, is becoming liberal. IFB churches, colleges, and pastors remain ardently and resolutely Fundamentalist. I recently saw a picture of a bluegrass singing group from Bob Jones University — a proudly Fundamentalist institution. I was surprised to see that the women in the photo were wearing blue jeans — a definite departure from their no-pants rule of yesteryear. This is what passes for “liberalism” in IFB circles.
Now to the question at hand: is there a difference between the IFB and the NIFB? The short answer is NO. There’s no difference theologically or socially between the two groups. The NIFB is just a group of churches and preachers who disagreed with other churches and preachers. The NIFB is little more than a squabble among siblings.
I refuse to use the NIFB moniker for Anderson and his gang of Fundamentalists. Using the NIFB label suggests to the uninformed that there’s a difference between them and other IFB churches. It leads to wrong conclusions too. NIFB pastors are hateful, bigoted homophobes. Look at how awful these preachers are, bloggers and reporters say. However, the IFB churches they broke from aren’t any better (generally speaking).
The IFB church movement is known for its infighting, divisions, and church splits. Did you know that you can find the first IFB church in the Old Testament?
And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.And he went on his journeys from the south even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Hai;Unto the place of the altar, which he had make there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the Lord.And Lot also, which went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents.And the land was not able to bear them, that they might dwell together: for their substance was great, so that they could not dwell together.And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram’s cattle and the herdmen of Lot’s cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left.And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.
Abraham and his nephew, Lot, got into a squabble. Abraham’s solution was that they separate from one other. Lot agreed. The Bible says: “and they separated themselves the one from the other.” A crusty old preacher said at a pastor’s meeting I was attending years ago that this passage aptly described how IFB churches are started. Those in attendance laughed, knowing that he was right.
From 1983-1994, I pastored Somerset Baptist Church, an IFB congregation in Mt. Perry, Ohio. Much of the church’s adult attendance growth came from people leaving local IFB churches and joining Somerset Baptist (we also gained members from non-IFB churches too). In its heyday, Somerset Baptist was the largest non-Catholic church in Perry County. Scores of people from IFB churches joined with us, and for a time, virtually every service at Somerset Baptist was buzzing with excitement. What was God fixing to do next? we wondered. Two years later, most of the people who came from local IFB churches were gone. Many of them went back to their old churches, while others moved on to other IFB churches. Our attendance went from 200 to 50, and our income dropped by fifty percent. Stories like this in the IFB world are not uncommon.
I see no evidence for the claim that there are differences between the NIFB and IFB church movement. What we have is an Abraham-Lot squabble, not the establishment of a new sect.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Spend any amount of time on this site, and you will likely read posts detailing emails and social media messages I have received from Evangelical Christians. I left Christianity in November 2008. Since then, countless Evangelicals have attempted to evangelize me, attack my character, or threaten me with Hell. Rare is the thoughtful, polite Evangelical. I mean ivory-billed woodpecker rare. I see nothing in their behavior that commends Evangelical Christianity to unbelievers. Why would any of us ever want to willingly be in the same room with such people?
Some Evangelicals make it their personal mission to attack and harass me. What drives these people to do so? I have long pondered this question, wondering why these people repeatedly email me, send me messages on social media, and leave comments on my blog? What do they hope to accomplish? Surely they know that there is no chance that I will ever become an Evangelical Christian again. The same can be said for many of the readers of this blog. We are not low-hanging fruit. We are not prospects for Heaven. Why not go after people who might be more receptive to the gospel than Bruce Gerencser and his fellow agnostics and atheists?
I’m convinced that some Evangelical zealots have an unhealthy obsession with me. Why is that? I suspect some of them have fantasies about me. Outraged over what I write, they fantasize about me burning in Hell or being tortured by God. Others gleefully fantasize about me dying a slow, painful death (and they see my current health problems as proof they are right). And still other fantasize about God saving me and mightily using me to win souls to Jesus.
Here’s what I think. I am like porn to the Evangelicals mentioned above. They can’t quit looking at me and fantasizing about what they would like to do to me (or what God would do to me). I have thought that maybe I need to send the David Tees, David Barkers, Rev. Makerfields, and Daniel Kluvers of the world — my latest “lovers” — a naked photo of me they can put it on the ceilings above their beds. 🙂 Good idea?
Such people are not going away. As long as I continue to write, I will have to contend with people who are obsessed with me. I will continue to make public their emails, messages and blog posts, and do my best to ignore their harassment behind the scenes.
Today, I received two identical emails from an Evangelical man named Tom Barker. Evidently, his “message” from Jesus is so important that I need to read it twice. My response is indented and italicized. (All grammar and spelling in the original.)
There is a major TRUTH that needs to be addressed here. People like Bruce Gerencser and others who call themselves “atheists” are really either Anti-theists and/or Anti-Christians.
Would it matter if I said that I am not an anti-theist or anti-Christian? Would it matter that scores of Christians read my writing? Of course not. Barker has determined, without evidence, that I hate Christians. Evidently, any critique of Christianity is considered hate.
Yes a combination of Satan the world and yourself and possibly another misguided human source has convinced you that “There is no God”. “No God or gods of any kind”.
Barker seems unable to understand the difference between “there is no God (s)” and “there is no evidence for the existence of God.” I am an agnostic atheist. I have concluded, based on the evidence at hand, that the Christian deity is a work of fiction. The same goes for the God of Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. That said, If Barker has compelling new evidence for his peculiar God’s existence, I am willing to listen. Further, since I don’t know everything, it is within the realm of possibility for me, that a god currently unknown to us might one day make itself known. Thus, I am agnostic on the God question.
I call myself an atheist because I live my life as if there is no God (not in denial, but because I see no evidence of a deity’s existence). The only time I think about God is when I write for this blog. It’s really that simple.
If Barker wants me to think differently, I suggest he convince me with good evidence that his God exists. Of course, Barker can’t do that, as this email clearly shows.
But there is a difference between “atheism and Anti-Christianity
Yes, there is. Have I ever said otherwise? As readers shall see in a moment, Barker’s g-string is tightly wedge in his ass over a meme I posted on my Facebook page.
And what the Facebook page “life and times of Bruce Gerencser” is preaching is ANTI-CHRISTIANITY! I have been on mission in parts of the United States like Seattle and NYC and I have met atheists there they have no exposure to the gospel at all 😭. One guy even said he is a 4th generation atheist. He was not going on Facebook making snide comments about the Bible and the gospel. He was not going on Facebook with snotty little memes making fun of Old Testament scriptures that he knew absolutely nothing about!
Would it be impolite of me to say that Barker sounds like a whiny little bitch? How dare I make snide comments about the Bible and the gospel! Besides, I evidently don’t know anything about the Old Testament. 🙂 While I don’t know everything about the Bible, I suspect that my knowledge exceeds that of Barker. Consider the gauntlet thrown down, Mr. Barker. Let’s have a Bible Knowledge fight. Are you up for the fight? Time to put your KJV where your mouth is.
LATOBG does that! And I have several examples of anyone wants to see them.
LATOBG. Damn, a new acronym. 🙂 For readers who may not know, I have a Facebook page. I post links to my writing there, along with memes and occasional comments about things I have read on the Internet. My page is not a secret. By all means, check it out and click LIKE while you are there.
If you and the fellow bloggers and Fb friends were true blue atheists you wouldn’t be making anti-Christian posts and comments.
If what Barker says is true, would it not also mean that if he was a true-red Christian, he wouldn’t be making anti-atheist posts and comments? Sorry, Tom, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and anti-debate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.
Instead of engaging my writing using good arguments, Barker’s fee-fees are hurt by what I say or the memes I post. Barker might want to peruse Christian blogs, websites, and social media pages. Anti-atheist content abounds. If I was butt-hurt every time an Evangelical posted a meme or blog post about atheists, why I would need constant applications of Vaseline just to sit down.
Memo to the Tom Barkers of the world: if what atheists write really chaps your asses, don’t read it. Problem solved.
And there is no way anyone can go into the light of Jesus Christ and then turn around and embrace the satanic darkness of unbelief ! Sad that someone can preach God’s Word and still have been lost all that time. 😭
Ah, now we get to Barker’s real issue with me. He can’t square my story with his theology, so he must come up with some way to discredit me. Thus, I was never a Christian. I was a “lost” preacher. Thousands of congregants and fellow colleagues in the ministry — all allegedly filled with the Holy Spirit — heard me preach and witnessed my life, yet none of them “discerned” that I was lost; that I was a fake Christian; that I never knew Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Amazing, right? I must have been more cunning and deceptive than Satan himself.
I strongly encourage you and anyone reading this to look up men like Lee Strobel and James Warner Wallace and Howard Storm. All were atheists who came to salvation through Christ Jesus!
I read all three of these authors. Color me not impressed. I watched a video several days ago of James Warner Wallace saying that the God of the Bible never committed genocide. And if he did, he repeatedly warned them about their false worship before he killed them. And, besides, he didn’t kill everyone, so it really wasn’t a genocide. Is this the best Evangelicalism has to offer?
Howard Storm actually had a vision of hell being dragged into it by demons!
And I had a “vision” of me and Pamela Anderson having sex. It didn’t happen, and neither did Storm’s vision of being dragged to Hell by demons. Before I believe such a story, Barker (and Storm) must provide evidence for the existence of Hell and demons. Of course, Barker can’t do that. All he has is the Bible and personal testimonies. Try harder, Tom, try harder.
Jesus Christ loves you all of you! He suffered and died and rose again to give you eternal life in heaven. Admit you are a sinner Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again Trust and receive him now.
How does Barker know Jesus loves ALL of us? What if we are apostates or reprobates? What if we are not elect? This idea that Jesus loves everyone cannot be scripturally supported. Besides, Jesus is dead. Why should any of us care if a dead man “loves” us? Imagine if I traversed the blogosphere telling people that Napoleon loves them? Who gives a fuck? Napoleon is dead.
Pray“LORD Jesus I know I am a sinner lost and I need you. Please forgive me and save me pull me from the sewers of unbelief and into your saving grace I believe you died and rose again I trust and accept you now thank you for loving me forgiving me and saving me in Jesus name Amen”
Okay, I just prayed this prayer. I am now saved and guaranteed a home in Heaven after I die. Woo! Hoo!
What a truncated, powerless gospel Baker preaches. In my Calvinistic days, we called such a gospel decisional regeneration — the belief that salvation is secured by saying and believing the right words. This is the gospel preached by most Evangelical preachers. It is a gospel of “right beliefs” instead of “right living.” Long before I became an atheist, I rejected this gospel. The Bible is clear, “without holiness no man shall see the Lord” and “faith without works is dead.” If Christianity has no power to transform, it’s worthless; it’s little more than a social club. I may be an atheist, but I might be inclined to admire a religion that took seriously practicing love, kindness, compassion, and loving your neighbor as yourself. I doubt I would become a believer, but I might say, “good job, Christians, good job.”
There is a promise that will come to pass. One day every human ever conceived will appear before Jesus Christ and will confess him as Lord. All who have trusted in him alone for eternal life and forgiveness of sins through his death and resurrection will embrace him as LORD in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who died too young to accept him including the millions murdered in the womb will also appear in a glorified body and embrace him in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who rejected him will bow and confess him as LORD in despair and regret for the decision to reject his grace and mercy and chose to pay for their own sins in the lake of fire. 😭😭 (and YES! It is very real!)
Ah yes, we can’t have an email from an Evangelical without a threat of judgment and Hell. Does this ever work with atheists? Nope, but evidently Barker never got the memo.
in short as we head into the heart of July all atheists agnostics Anti-Christians,Muslims,Jehovah witnesses , Mormons and many others who have flat rejected Christ’s grace and/or tried to earn their salvation through “religion” and good works one day will wish they were all at a water park!
In other words, everyone is going to Hell except Barker and those who believe like him. He and “Dr.” David Tee (theologyarcheology), along with Daniel Kluver will have Heaven all to themselves. Heaven will be a zoo no one wants to visit.
God bless
In other words, fuck you, Bruce. I hope you burn in Hell.
If Heaven is filled with Tom Barkers, give me Hell every time. Fortunately, Barker and I are headed to the same place — the grave. See ya there, Tom. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I recently wrote a post titled, The Horrors of the Evangelical Hell. Included in that post was a long email I received from a man named Rev. James Makerfield — likely a fake name. I typically send Evangelicals a link to the post of my response to them. I am happy to report that my post on Hell was so persuasive and devastating that it left Makerfield speechless. Almost, anyway. All Makerfield could say was this: Lost cause 😭
Rev. Makerfield has finally seen the light. Atheists and agnostics are indeed “lost causes.”
Now, go away and find someone who gives a shit. I don’t, and neither do my fellow unbelievers.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
